14 replies to this topic

[Placeboo]

Cheap gear (all types) is bad for both players and HCS. If a player wants to purchase fsp through HCS and wants a handful of epics they can drop $50 , as opposed to older prices where it could cost upwards of $200+. Guess which HCS would prefer. On the player side, that increased cost of FSP hurts players because it now costs more (relatively) to buy upgrades like stamina gain / max stamina etc. And, if you’re dropping cash it will always be the same cost.

While I am sure HCS has made some nice short term profit on Inventor 500 potions, it really has hurt the game economy, and while I would have liked to see them not exist, they are in the game and that is that. This item really hurt epics and inventable high end item prices. I really think there needs to be some ideas to promote greater gear diversity and have uses for older gear that is losing its value. The first solution to fix this has been done - adding new arena gear that uses old items to invent. So, let’s see some more, arena used to cycle in new gear more often - it has been far too long!

Now, instead of just asking for more content I have a few ideas that would be nice improvements that are relatively easy to implement:

Years ago people were asking for more fairness in arena. ie: getting rid of deflect, 2% hits etc. While moves like deflect  and 2% hits in move arena were bad imo, it was MUCH better than what is currently in place. In the old system if you really thought about sets you could get around this randomness to an extent. These days with 100% Counter vs 20% attack boost spin its far worse randomness that is all just dumb luck with move placement. The system really only promotes 1 or 2 approaches to building setups with certain stat types imo. The decay system is somewhat of a good idea, but all it promotes is set stacking, previously you could design specific sets to have a purpose, required lots of tweaking making arena interesting - now its just figuring out what sets fit together to produce the most stats.

No offense to HCS but I think there needs to be some realization that you don’t understand arena as well as players that play it on a consistent basis... they released armor/defense gear at the same time they made armor/defense gear utterly useless (in non move arenas in old system).

HCS is going to do as they want and frankly, it’s easier to leave arena as it is, you can argue for either side I guess - and there is not a huge difference, but any knowledgeable arena player will tell you the new system is far worse than the old. I have not made this thread to complain - only point out flaws, and I have a solution for how to fix a lot of problems and promote gear diversity (which will increase gear value) in arena. A lot of gear became useless when they changed to the new system, the more gear that is useful in arena the better! So, I propose more arena type variety; add a "check box" for old arena system mechanics. I am sure the code is still around in HCS computers, so I figure it would be an easy addition. Lets get some 60 round no decay tourneys, and some 20% chance to hit spin with 20% Counter attack proc etc. This will encourage people to buy and forge more arena gear; I think this would really improve gear values of arena rewards and gear in general. (On a side note I really don’t understand legendary events where people can use a bit of stamina and get incredible legendary sets - really hurts the game imo).

 

With the same ideas in mind I think epic items could really be improved with a simple fix. New epic types. Prices are far to low to consider these items "epic". While stamina gain is nice I think it would be nice to see something new and better - combining epics (Not inventable to bypass the breaking factor of Inventor 500 - perhaps a repeatable quest). Some ideas of a combining result would be 2 piece epic sets with an additional stamina gain bonus - but, what I think would be really nice is to have some unique buffs that are permanent while the item(s) are equipped: ie: deflect 200, Lightfoot 200 etc etc etc. (something that could have use while in stamina gain gear).

Edited by Placeboo, 02 October 2013 - 00:01.

[Pardoux]

Cheap gear (all types) is bad for both players and HCS. If a player wants to purchase fsp through HCS and wants a handful of epics they can drop $50 , as opposed to older prices where it could cost upwards of $200+. Guess which HCS would prefer. On the player side, that increased cost of FSP hurts players because it now costs more (relatively) to buy upgrades like stamina gain / max stamina etc. And, if you’re dropping cash it will always be the same cost.

 

I can "sort" of understand how you think it's bad for HCS... But, for it to be bad for HCS, that assumes that every player is a donator and I think we all know that's a long way from the truth. If a player earns his fsp's through in-game activity, then spending 100 fsp on an epic vs spending 1000 fsp on an epic doesn't affect HCS's income one iota.

 

As for being bad for players, I disagree. For most items, low prices benefit players in that they can actually afford to buy them now and to either use them or compose them. For epics, low prices benefit everyone other than traders.

 

 

With the same ideas in mind I think epic items could really be improved with a simple fix. New epic types. Prices are far to low to consider these items "epic". While stamina gain is nice I think it would be nice to see something new and better - combining epics (Not inventable to bypass the breaking factor of Inventor 500 - perhaps a repeatable quest). Some ideas of a combining result would be 2 piece epic sets with an additional stamina gain bonus

 

I wouldn't say that the price was the determining factor of if an item is epic or not, but what it actually does. For me, any item that gives me bonus stamina gain is an epic, regardless of if it costs me 1fsp or 500 fsp. Combining epics has been suggested before and, so far, has not gone anywhere. Neither would I like to see it happen either. Because, again, who stands to profit the most if it does ? - merchants holding devaluing epics in their backpacks.

 

For instance, hypothetically, if the cows brought out a formula that allowed you to make a +3/+3 ring by combining 2 x RROD or 2 x SoSL's (both available for 400 or less currently), then I'm pretty sure that the new ring would, initially at least be priced substantially higher than the sum of its component costs.

 

As for epic sets, BG has ruled this out on numerous occasions and, I, for one, think that's the right call ...

 

 

but, what I think would be really nice is to have some unique buffs that are permanent while the item(s) are equipped: ie: deflect 200, Lightfoot 200 etc etc etc. (something that could have use while in stamina gain gear).

 

Now that could be a useful addition to new stamina gear, instead of normal enhancements. 

[Placeboo]

para: Your only thinking of things on a micro scale instead of macro, saying that something costs 100 fsp vs 1000 fps from someone that does not pay for the fsp directly and therefore has no effect to HCS is wrong. Even if they did not pay for that fsp directly someone did at some point and it was traded around and eventually that player with the fsp ended up with it.

Theres no way in this game to materialize FSP without paying $ for it in some way.

You also did not read or understand why low fsp value on items have a negative effect on the game. Just saying epics and gear are better cheap really is an ignorant statment becuase your not even considering the value of fsp and only really looking at a simplisitc idea of "i have X amount of fsp and this item costs y"

[Pardoux]

para: Your only thinking of things on a micro scale instead of macro, saying that something costs 100 fsp vs 1000 fps from someone that does not pay for the fsp directly and therefore has no effect to HCS is wrong. Even if they did not pay for that fsp directly someone did at some point and it was traded around and eventually that player with the fsp ended up with it.

Theres no way in this game to materialize FSP without paying $ for it in some way.

You also did not read or understand why low fsp value on items have a negative effect on the game. Just saying epics and gear are better cheap really is an ignorant statment becuase your not even considering the value of fsp and only really looking at a simplisitc idea of "i have X amount of fsp and this item costs y"

 

No need for your "really is an ignorant statement" comment

 

Let me reply again ..

 

1.  Praying to Osverin brings 20 fsp into the game every day. No money changes hands between player and HCS

 

2.  Doing offers bring in numerous shards for players on a daily basis. No money changes hands between players and HCS - albeit, admittedly, HCS benefit indirectly from advertisers who give those shards.

 

So, there are ways of bringing in FSP to the game that don't benefit HCS directly.

 

And, please, explain more thoroughly then, why low prices have a negative effect on the game.

 

Let me give you an scenario of why I disagree.

 

Example 1.

 

Trader A has 10, for instance, Dragon Draped Sabatons for sale at 1000 fsp each (hypothetical figure, just for making a point). He sells 1 pair to Player B for that price who has to make 2 x $60 donations to get that many fsps. So, HCS earn $120 from 1 player.

 

Example 2.

Trader A has 10, for instance, Dragon Draped Sabatons for sale at 480 fsp each (more realistic figure, but still inflated over current market price). Because the price is much lower, more players are able to afford (and justify) buying them so, perhaps 3 players make a $60 donation each to buy them. In this example, HCS earn $180 from 3 seperate players.

 

So, it's actually better for the game if prices are lower - more folk can actually afford to buy them.

[Placeboo]

Ok, your right 20 fsp does come into the game each day... lol.

shards are the same as $ to HCS

 

Your arbituary examples means nothing , what if sabatons cost 10,000 fsp then HCS would have $1120 - just picking numbers out of the air means nothing (and I understand that these were the prices that happen to be what these were priced and what they are now) . Its all supply and demand and epics are bound to go down in price, your argument that more people will be able to afford them is not revelant, if 1k fsp is to much then the price will go down to make those sales happen. I am presenting an argument of how to increase FSP cost of items and why it is good for the game. Your missing the point that the value of FSP is better to have low in comparion to gear because it can be used foe upgrades like max stamina etc. The actual cost of gear is irrelavent when you look at value of FSP. You are totally missing the point here and trying to take apart one small portion of the point I am making, and quite frankly, you are wrong.

Edited by Placeboo, 01 October 2013 - 01:58.

[gomezkilla]

There shall be no Epic sets period. BigGrim has made that clear on more than one occasion. Adding permanent buffs to Epics won't raise the price of the Epics since the main thing about Epics that people want is the stamina gain and xp gain. 

 

Inventor 500 is out there, deal with it. There will most likely be more Epic recipes in the future, possibly even some Epic + Epic recipes... tried that idea, got noticed but vanished into the black hole of the forums.

[yotwehc]

If we are talking supply and demand, the supply keeps growing and won't really stop. With each introduction of super powerful pots and other things, it's almost as if the barn doors have been opened and the horses have fled (or cows). I think the only way to create high value items is to introduce even more new stuff that's even more powerful but then where does it end? I personally would love the Epic+Epic stuff as my stam gain is way too slow but would it blow up the epic market? What's interesting is using epics in inventing really didn't hurt the epic market... look at all the elemental shields... If I'm not mistaken, they require epic weapons yet the weapons remain dirt cheap.

[Pardoux]

Ok, your right 20 fsp does come into the game each day... lol.

shards are the same as $ to HCS

 

Shards are the same as income, indirectly, yes, but not from players - which is the point you were making with your "Theres no way in this game to materialize FSP without paying $ for it in some way."  comment, I'm pretty sure ?. If not, I withdraw that example.

 

 

Its all supply and demand and epics are bound to go down in price, your argument that more people will be able to afford them is not revelant, if 1k fsp is to much then the price will go down to make those sales happen. 

 

The price HAS gone down and more of the items are selling, so that backs up my point.

 

 

 I am presenting an argument of how to increase FSP cost of items and why it is good for the game. Your missing the point that the value of FSP is better to have low in comparion to gear because it can be used foe upgrades like max stamina etc. The actual cost of gear is irrelavent when you look at value of FSP. 

 

So, firstly, you say supply and demand determines price and epics are bound to go down in price - and now you say you want them to go up in price. There's more and more epics coming into the game on a daily basis, and less and less (relatively) people wanting them. How is the price of existing epics going to go up other than via :-

 

1. Making Epic Sets, which WOULD increase the value of them, no doubt, has been ruled out many many times by BG, so using that as an example is moot.

 

2. Combining epics has also been mentioned (and would increase prices) several times, most notably by Gomezkilla  in his thread http://forums.hunted...showtopic=55873 and BG said, at the time, it was something for them to consider. 

 

If there's another way, let's hear it

 

You are totally missing the point here and trying to take apart one small portion of the point I am making, and quite frankly, you are wrong.

 

I love how, when I put forward an alternative viewpoint, you throw out the "you're missing the point" and "you're totally wrong". You do this quite often

 

As for ignoring the whole arena diatrabe in the midst of your original (double) post, I left that alone because how the arena specifics work, regarding moves etc, is out of my area of "expertise"

Edited by Pardoux, 01 October 2013 - 03:30.

[BigGrim]

Play nice or the thread will be locked.

[Davros81]

Play nice or the thread will be locked.

I would have locked it already, it is clear this is a clash of personalities rather than a discussion over which ideas are best or will work better.

Edited by Davros81, 01 October 2013 - 12:50.

[gomezkilla]

it is clear this is a clash or personalities rather than a discussion over which ideas are best or will work better.

Yes, which is why we were warned because this thread does have the potential to come up with some great ideas.

 

Side note: Placeboo, could you clean up the OP please.. you copied the same argument twice there and its not necessary.

[Davros81]

epics should be left as they are, so many times before have people requested they be either merged or made into sets and every time the cows have generally said they will be leaving them as they are. The cows have made available many more epics, obtainable via titans or RP invents.

[Dulcharn]

[...] because how the arena specifics work, regarding moves etc, is out of my area of "expertise"

 

*chuckles*

 

 

@ Placeboo: If you want to discuss the arena, you should post that portion in a different thread, because it'll get lost in here.

[gilby90813]

i like the idea of a buff on a item how about u make it a new buff on the item or set

[Placeboo]

For those that want to argue that gear prices are better at low fsp costs then great. Lets continue to watch arena slow down, fewer and fewer people hunting titans and gvging. The game will only have 50 players, but gear will all be cheap so that is great for you! /sigh

 

 

 

 

@ Placeboo: If you want to discuss the arena, you should post that portion in a different thread, because it'll get lost in here.

 

 

The intention of this thread was really to make two suggestions I think are some easy fixes to improve game economy. While I did get into a bit of detail about arena mechanics I thought the suggestion of adding a check box for old arena mechanics was something that could be considered easily without to much analysis of major arena changes.