i dont titan hunt and i dont SE hunt didnt know there was an opt out button for those like the ladder......   just because you dont like an aspect of a game no reason to partake.  there is pvp protection for those against your will situations....  like the opt out for the pvp ladder.

  that was kinda ridiculous.....

I had a lot of fun with this aspect of the game last year, and it was scraped, but was suppose to come back as a global. However The cows were not sure how to do this so it has been delayed.

 

I want to lay out a simple yet detailed way to get this aspect into the game.

 

 

1st and very importantly there has to be a new preference to Opt In/Out of these types of Globals (while I would like to see the whole community participate I realize some have no desire to and do not want to be forced to)

  possibly a reduced flash sale type thing during this event for a pvp protection

As I don't support PvP, it is natural to try to make it harder to happen. You do the same for you opposing point of view, right?

 

 at least ur honest in ur maliciousness  so many things wrong with this type of attitude. i dont even want to comment as it would be an ugly response to ugly intentions but its only to blame the lack of knowledge and experience (assuming its  due to the lack of assistance ) in the subject at hand. 

+24 Hours PvP Protection. 200,000  n/a -     +7 Days PvP Protection 1,000,000  n/a -     +28 Days PvP Protection 3,000,000  n/a -    

under upgrades in the gold section

your guild dont look after you?  ur paying for buffs.....  guild dont make hunting potions?

I did nothing of the sort.  Merely pointed out people fears, whether justified or not.

A revenge hit option takes away absolutely nothing from respectful, honourable players anyway.

 

I'm kind of having trouble now understanding the opposition to the premise. O.o

ppl will always have fear expectally in the unknown. and new pvp'rs unexperienced ones will fear the *what if's*  this is some thing NO ONE can change or pad.

my suggestion to this is the said/any player should/can vocalize their  their exploitation in pvp and inexperience and curiosity on playing in pvp. might get a more positive result/reaction (granted the person is being serious)... (again this is not directed to any one person - generally speaking)

But this is different, right? I am assuming the risk and also only when I try to hit the creature. It is something planned. PvP is not planned at all. I am playing and suddenly...got hit by someone I am not even fighting against. When I hit some creature I know what can happen, so I use SSI to avoid death. I mean, creatures don't do PvP.

Exactly " RISK" you should convert your gold send it to a friend bank it. dont stack large numbers in your pockets with gold you make your self a target for a gold hit.   if you take the "risk " away where is the competitiveness and the challenge in the game ?  you enjoy going to the store and buying a game u can beat in a day because its to easy (padded)? i know i dont.  why do it to this game.  HCS has gone as far as adding "protect gold" and specifically "pvp protection"  those "protections" dont work with creatures only pvp to save you from the 100 stams... come on now... can there be any reason-ability? pvp has been so distorted for almost a decade now. even the smasher medal is confound to the pvp ladder, so being on the pvp ladder you can earn dominance and smasher.... bit ridiculous.... double incentive for 100 stamming ( isolated )

is this your first MMO? with other live players game play is always unperdictable

you can buy it with gold or fsp

When someone hits me, I don't care about the money as I always can make more. My problem is XP lost.

 

you also loose XP an gold when you die from creatures..... should that be padded also?

 

This is my 1st ever actual proposal to change PvP, discussed it shortly on global chat with BigGrim. (also, english is my not native language, so if I make mistakes, please try to understand idea I am talking about, not how I say it out)

 

To start with, when game was young, PvP attack against player was not guaranteed win as it is nowadays.( its NEVER been a guaranteed win ) [disclaimer, I am talking about "random" PvP attacks, or attacks to steal gold, thus excluding 'professional' PvP, ladder and BB where attacking player is more or less buffed constantly.] Recently, "random" PvP attack have come more an frequent as there are Daily Quests with PvP. Back in those old days, player wearing proper gear could actually win against attacker, when attacker was either careless or some enchantment kicked in. Nowadays, there are so many buffs that guarantee that attacker wins against un-buffed target. ( no one hunts with no buffs why would some one pvp with no buffs and same aspect for gear - i feel like that comment is irrelevant )

 

How about if we would give defender a fighting chance? Here is my suggestion:

When player gets attacked in normal PvP, result is not decided at the moment of attack . Instead, it goes to sort of indecisive state, where it wait until 24h (or should it be 48h?) is passed, or defender has surrendered (no chance to bounty, gold and xp loss cut to ..umm... lets say half, I don't know what would be good cut [also, look disclaimer]) or fights back. On moment of attack, amount of xp and gold target has in hand is recorded. Defender gets notification (in log?) that attack was made, it could be something like "Player attacked against you: xxx attack and yyy damage detected with zz buffs active, defend yourself! (or press surrender to end combat to your loss)." One hour cooldown is applied between attacker and defender. ( like an open arena where you wait for an online player to join and you go attack for attack - live battle?  we have that its the pvp ladder )

 

If target decides to defend, target may change gear at will, also get buffed any amount of buffs(including potion buffs). Buff amount and attack/damage stat is there as I want target to see how how aggressive attack there is. I think showing attack and damage is good, thus giving target a fighting chance (adjust gear according attack and damage values, and calculate what effect buffs may have on them). But showing buff amount is still bit unclear to me, it seems like an good idea to me, but will it give too much advantage to defender? On attack and damage stat, I think only realistic approach is to so base attack and damage, as there are so many of those RNG buffs. What you think so far? ( again we have this, the pvp ladder players can choose to pot in or out )

 

Now it gets tricky: how to determine gold loss? My suggestion is to have sort of pool for gold an xp. So every time attacker attacks some target, total gold amount in targets hand is recorded, and then apply gold stealing buffs and enchantments. The amount of stolen (and lost) is locked from target (so it cannot be used, sent or deposit) and locked amount is shown in status (so other possible attackers know that they can only access part of total amount of gold of target). What happens next? I have come up following possibilities: ( this has already been reduced many times over. chances of MT are less than they ever were )  if you look through AH at all the items being sold for gold u will see players have gotten around using pvp protection by buying items from friends/founders at crazy prices to protect their gold, when deposits are not enough. you can send to a player who has gold protection also ( if you dont want to get gold protection for your self )

1) attacker has attacked only one target, target looses on defend: attacker gets 100% of that gold pooled when attack was initialized, gold steal buffs are applied as they are, and some gold is lost. Target thus looses all locked gold. One hour cooldown is applied between attacker and defender. ( one target.... confused)

2) attacker has attacked only one target, target surrenders: half of pooled is subject of PvP gold steal, so some of it will get lost and some stolen. Target keeps the other half of gold. One hour cooldown is applied between attacker and defender.

(again confused)

3) attacker looses (or battle is unresolved): defender keeps all the gold, attacker's gold stealing buffs "backfire" eg are applied as defender had those casted, then gold and xp loss are calculated in same manner as it is calculated currently. One hour cooldown is applied between attacker and defender.(unresolved is unresolved both walk away with nothing - thus unresolved. except the attacker still looses stam spent - i see no flaw in this)

4) set time has passed (24h or 48h), attacker wins same way as in 1) ( pvp ladder)

Those are pretty straight forward... But if attacker has attacked multiple targets, for ease of maths lets say 4 targets, and have pooled (locked) gold: 1st target 3M, 2nd target 800k and 3rd and 4th target both 100k, so total of 4M. So, following could happen:

5) attacker wins against target #2, target looses locked multiplied with percentage targets locked gold present on total pooled (locked) gold, so 800k x (800k/4M), which is 160k. One hour cooldown is applied between attacker and defender.

6) 1st target surrenders, attacker thus gains 0.5 x 3M = 1.5M. Or should it be 1125k? 4M x 0.5 x  (3M / 4M). One hour cooldown is applied between attacker and defender.

7) attacker looses (or battle is unresolved) against targets #3 and #4, same as 3)

8) set time has passed (24h or 48h), attacker wins same way as in 5)

( sounds like u want to implement a new pvp ladder system )  i dont see how this will work with open pvp i under stand your basic idea - but for open pvp (free/wild) u should rethink this a little more

 

Any improvements and other constructive feedback would be nice, as I am just asking how defender could have chance to defend without being buffed all the time. 

 

 

- donalde -

 

I repeat "I was hit even though i carried no gold and had protection.  I probably  spent  about 100 fsp on bounties and this player only  lost 12 levels."

 

If I was to hit  back I am guaranteed to lose 5 levels for one 10 stam hit.

 

A hit for a hit.   If you hit me I should have the right  to hit you back with no consequences as you are  the initator.

 

Whats not fair about  that !

 you dont have friends or guild mates to hit on a bounty for you?  so because you lack these atributes in game because of choices you made others should have to sacrifice?   this is not about you its about don's post get back on topic please

After reading rest of the posts.... I can only say: whoa, nicely hijacked and trolled post. No one even tried to make suggestion to improve my original suggestion. And only PvP'rs did their best to smash my suggestion. Nicely done. I could point out multiple flaws on counter argument, but that would make me feel like don Quixete. 

 

So, PvP is broken, and PvP'rs don't even wanna fix it way that would give target any chance to defend oneself. There were multiple suggestions on PvP protection, XP lock, smashing back, free retaliation (that could also work), but no single answer how to actually defend oneself, when PvP can decide when, buffage and gear while possible targets only chances are keep buffed up (costs thousands of stamina daily), use PvP protection (which actually doesn't protect anything but xp and that attacker does not gain prestige), still gold can be stolen or just hit to annoy / harass target, use xp lock which is basically milder version of PvP protection. 

 

Only real solution was mzz's suggestion to cut down buffs on pvp, but that list would be quite drastic, as it would require new balancing on buffs. And like mzz said, PvP'rs don't want that.

considering the slaughter pvp has gone through over the years, where it is today is better than its been in a long time.  wasnt trying to shoot you down, and no offense how much do you pvp?  if your going to pick apart pvp some one who is bias and knows pvp inside and out would be better suited to pick it apart - like mzz said in global smasher is obtained from ladder only i kinda agree with her logic on that dom medal and smasher level are only obtained through pvp ladder... kinda riddiclious. as for defending in pvp the "targeted" player has always had the benifit. as for defending. buffs....  lower level players who are not in stronger guild dont stand a chance against a lower level player in a stronger guild as they can get pvp buffs easier than others.. how should we pay for that?   because that player cant compete with other guilds supporting its players in the pvp aspect of the game... i think not. 

what do ppl expect to happen when they make enemies, verbally violate/assault/bully  (yes i said verbally bully) you make enimies in game against a pvp'r they gunna hit you. i have even know levelers to start pvp because they were verbally bullied and insulted..   and now u want a retaliation button?   i vote NO    remove all pvt messaging and all can see the verbal assault pvp'rs have gotten in pms.       making enimies and fighing with them no you dont get a retaliate button   straight up pvp retaliate button   who's gunna regulate the abusers for taking advantage of this retaliate feature?    my spelling is bad IDC to mad at ppl trying to take advantage of situations for their own benefit because of their actions rather than the greater good

pvp = player(s) v player(s)    is that simpler for u

i Hunt  i do all my quests ( love them )  and I pvp.  i love all the aspects of the game  i invent - im working on my composing and i donate to the game to help pay the bills at HCS.   im excited for this new app for my phone and tablets rye plays on his tablet so this app will benefit him greatly. i love seeing new players joining FS i try and help them.   i GVG  i try to be syphilitic to walks of life in FS   i LOVE LOVE TO GVG it helps my guild and my guild mates get the RP and sell the items and share the spoils with my mates.    i want to encourage players staying in game !   its hard when EVERY THING is done with stam... u burn through stam sooo fast when ur doing all aspects of FS .   opeing up the pvp ranges will help bring players back in FS  will help keep new players  will help HCS get $$ with increase of players    think of how long it takes to level vs how long it takes for stam to gain....  ppl are going to get bored fast !!!  past 2 weeks i have spent most of my time in game chatting then playing why - beause of stam restrictions.      because of the changes of PVP over the 10 years....  im really scared for FS in its future changes of pvp.... could end up being the death of FS    pvp is dam near close to dead. because of that so is FS 3-400 active players......   its not about what killed it  LEST MAKE IT RIGHT ! AND DO IT RIGHT !  

Not bad Necra... can you suss it out a bit more?

it was just a random idea i pulled from the air for an example  that would completely change pvp if implemented. every time pvp is changed FS looses a chunk of its players any idea would need to be thoroughly interrogated

little by little - one at a time im sure we can get there peacefully and successfully  and ofc it will take time. 

-1 on expanding level ranges; the way it is.

 

But, I have another suggestion:

One checkbox to not get into PvP for non-PvP players. To the others, no level restriction. Everybody happy, I think.

 

Cheers!

like toggle open pvp and no pvp, then players who attack (no pvp) can gain infamy and bounty board, infamy to high what punishment would be implemented jail? 24 hrs no stam gains? but can get gold and xp hourlies go guild ticks are not hurt?      pvp'er gaining infamy would be the "punishment" some are looking for

 - catching a high infamy player get extra gold rewards =D

fs active player history over the past 10 years  :  9-7000 active players ( 1st pvp change)  = 3-4000 active players (2nd pvp change) = 9-700 active players ( last pvp change) 3-400 active players   mind u pvp was changed to please the levelers with a failed twist to mock the pvp'rs ( imo) now there is pvp protection and a few are crying about using it it cost to much !!   how u expect HCS to stay afloat when they give and give to the levelers and they wont give back   thats the hardest smack to the face if i have ever seen !!!     - sry for the derailling  

in every single MMO - RPG game i have play'd in the past 5 years PVP is a strong thriving part of the game - games that expected to drowned became top mmo because of pvp and player interaction. unless its toon town or rayman to bring in more players i agree with promotion packs again and PVP needs to be improved and brought back as a fundamental part of FS

when i first started playing FS i wanted to lvl up so bad, so i could PVP with the big boys ( it looked so fun and challenging )  now i see no point in power leveling or putting the rush on leveling.  like i dont envy EOC other than monopolizing top ranks i see no other motivation to be at EOC other than sitting and waiting for more content or monthly events ( u dont need to be at eoc for them )  leveling and PVP should BOTH be  thriving part of the game.  so if improving pvp or expanding it sparks a new live in FS and bring in more players HCS should do it. does chazz proposal do that?  it could. or it couldnt. only one way to find out . with pride and negativity put on the back burner we as a community can figure this out...   if u dont like the idea dont snark an make ur self look like a jackass be helpful and positive with your thoughts and suggestions.  dont get me wrong pvp is better than it was. but we can get FS to be a desirable game for MANY new players.     

fs is the only gamei know that have a level restrictions in pvp......most games high level players can attack low level players out of new player protection....  

pvp protection and gold protect was also put in place with that.

i have notice ppl dont want to use it either and expect to not be hit  and cry and get annoyed - thats riddiclious.  so many things to do in game to make gold and fsp there should be no problem with players using pvp protection - and have pvp flourish   discussions about PVP and implementing original pvp aspects and undoing changes shouldn't be an issue..... when some thing is implemented it should stay. changing it and changing it and changing it. improving is one thing but changing an aspect once implemented is asking for trouble and now look where we are....      how many ppl actually use pvp protection now? vs how many cry about being hit?   improve the pvp range and reintroduce pvp protection.   GIVE BACK TO HCS   you demand to be protected from pvp u got it  u want more punishment on the bb  u got it, now u want more.......   and refuse to comply with giving leeway to pvp.......   not right.    i know HCS hates hearing this but moving the smasher was the biggest hurt to pvp'rs   that was the once recognition for straight pvp and it was taken away after MT was dramatically reduced then reduced again.    Chazz's proposal (with lvl range edits) would be a huge improvement    FS is a MMO it seems many forget what that entails

No. The reason for it's removal is still valid.

not promoting straight pvp?

 

Smasher was removed from normal PvP for a reason. PvPers can get that from their PvP Ladder.

 

As stated, the level range suggestion will be discussed with Hoofmaster.

 

We've added PvP attacks to Dailies and some players do them. Others do not.

 

~ Grim

 

i understand - as a compromise can there be a medal for regular pvp?  to fix the hurt?  gold taken from pvp  - xp taken from pvp

LOVE LOVE LOVE this addition and the adjustment is perfect = the market should go up ! and lower level players can start making FSP's    my suggestion would be with each upgrade - the lvl changes and the attack and damage increase according to that new lvl and artwork changes with each upgrade ( evolved )    GREAT JOB!!