Failed updates is what made my stop coming back to play.

Latest update was an update to PvP protection, which was implemented years ago. This update was criticized from day one and the solution for the issue provided on day one. But it was left aside to simmer as another botched update for a long time turning people away from the game.

This kind of update is a recurring theme throughout the game: relics, titans, buffs, PvP, GvG, etc. Basically, people want a complete fix to a feature and get a temporary fix... which will get another temporary fix a year later and another and another only to reach the solution given by players on the first day.

By adding and removing flaws at the same time, you are making players focus on these flaws and become unhappy about the direction of the game. Too often I have been angered by what HCS has done to keep on playing this game, which is actually a good game. But you guys need to step up and do thorough fixes to a feature by understanding what each change entails from top to bottom rather than taking small steps in random direction. This is most likely due to the fact that you guys don't really understand the game because none of you really plays it seriously.

FS is your money maker and will probably always will be, it deserves more time and effort.

If I told you why I stopped, would that be helpful? I mean... I just log on once every other week now...

The TKP prices are too high, it's not an issue with the bonus values themselves. But that was said back when TKPs were implemented. An issue is pointed out, the solution are given, the fix is half implemented or the numbers tweaked to be terrible (probably in order to not implement exactly what is suggested), wait till there's an issue, fix half of what's left... and so on.

Yes I can compare as we all know leveling really has nothing to do with FSP cost. Upgrades were indeed cheaper as well if my lore serves me. Doubler has nothing to do with anything. Separate. Sympatico? Read Shardoom's last post...time=money and the time to make fsps in the various aspects of the game. Therefore those who have been around longest, have the greatest advantage. Stands to "reason".

Actually this statement is wrong, not sure if you're aware but when the levels were in the 200's range not only was there not the uber gear that everyone seems to take for granted. There was also no such thing as a level 175 buff. People actually died in combats, if not they most certainly wasn't 1 hitting everything. Couple that with the lower levels of gold gaining buffs treasure hunter / merchant and you have considerably less gold coming into the game. It wasn't *easier* to change gold into FSP, for one thing, the marketplace only had the options of selling FSP's, you couldn't sell gold like you do now, the listing were also extremely rare. Also quite simply, people just didn't have as much available gold as they do now, FSP's were cheaper but that doesn't automatically mean people were making more from their hunts...

I also think that when FSP was 20,000... 20k was a lot of money and the game was actually hard. But after DD and a couple more sets everyone started 1-hitting and the amount of gold received is the same at level 300 or 800. But when I reached level 250, I was 1-hitting and FSP's were 100k... 2 years later I am also 1-hitting, making the same amount of gold per stamina... but FSP's are 200k.

We cannot compare now to when the game was hard, but it is much harder to gain upgrades now than when FSP's were 100k and we were 1-hitting just the same.

FFS's tune has changed a lot since Titans came out. "two players for a single activity... madness!" Seriously guys, GvG is working as intended and two players is hardly a lot. Many guilds are saying that they are doing fine on the GvG side.

PvP is actually hitting someone. Accepting a bounty and not hitting is not PvP. It is annoying yes, but not PvP. I agree that every bounty I hit on, I should be able to be bountied. That makes sense, and would be good for the game. A bounty for acceptance and not hitting is not good for the game and makes no sense. The coding problems of making it work that way are not my concern, but one needs to apply logic to this situation.

If this was made per bounty hit, that means that completing any bounty would expose you to losing 50 levels. This way, you only risk 5. This is good to minimize the risk of bounty hunting. If you don't intend to hit, don't use your tickets.

Base max stamina should be equivalent to 50 (gain per hour) * 24 (hours in a day) = 1200. This would ago a long way towards makling the game more appealing to new players.

Free stat and buff resets at level 100 are also sorely needed.

I've said it numerous times before. The starting account needs to feel like a playable account.

2500 stamina, 10 backpack slot. Non-donators are also important members of the community and I hate it when players realize that they should hunt every 8 hour, it makes them quit.

I would rather slower release of new items and toys if I could rely on the fundamentals of the game working well - moving, hunting, buff and enhancement activation. The titan issue highlights problems with mapping, and did for some time, you did not fix the issues raised, and then, into the mess of titan hunting problems, you released a new titan. That was tone deaf. And it indicates general tone deafness, which is why so many are losing faith in your ability to respond to reasonable player feedback.

Sincerely,

etc.

Decent to immense rewards have often been implemented without looking properly at building a decent system. Then making the needed iterations to the system takes over a year and several minimal iterations leading to the system being that suggested on the first day. This was the case for PvP Ladder, relics, titan, prestige and probably a few others.

Build an iron system then add rewards. Heck, implement a system without rewards until it works.

I think the delay should be re-increased to 3 seconds.

Not everyone who is banned is a cheat. Remember... 3 offenses and you are out no matter the offense. If you curse at a newb once a year, after 3 years you might be permanently banned.

Anyways, do you agree that your idea would lead to more manipulation than good? From my own experience of manipulating prestige with everyone else in my top 10, I can foresee a lot of manipulation if your proposed system were to be implemented.

ALL aspects of Fallensword where there is interaction between players, are susceptible to exploitation, collusion and trading. To single out PvP or a PvP idea based on the risk of exploitation is foolhardy.

This one has unprecedented potential for abuse and the effect of this abuse could be huge. While everything will have potential for collusion, one must still look at how much abuse will take place and it's potential. This one could possibly ruin leveling and wouldn't do more than "this is not bad" for PvP.

It's hard to stay on topic in a pvp thread. Anyways, do you agree that your idea would lead to more manipulation than good? From my own experience of manipulating prestige with everyone else in my top 10, I can foresee a lot of manipulation if your proposed system were to be implemented.

I think it's better to agree to kill the idea and move onto discussing something else. Perhaps it would be better to first identify what is lacking in the current PvP system?

Players want reasons to PvP and offer taking No losses at all and having 0 risk... Totally unfair given how those who have and currently PvP have always been at risk and have always accepted those risks and losses without any complaints.

Who proposed that? We're reading different forums?

if you could look back to when it all changes to pvp started u would see that nearly all of them were in compromise to benefit the non pvp'rs. its easy to stand here today criticizing ideas when the history of it all is not taken into perspective.

Like what?

Creating PvP? Adding PvP rating? Adding rewards for PvP? Adding prestige? Extending the hit range from 5 to 10 levels? Adding medals for PvP?

This, what does it mean? What does it imply? That PvP and PvE be completely separate? I really want to support your idea because you usually have good solutions, but if I said "+1" I wouldn't even know what I would be supporting :|

Fair enough

Yes, separate to most intents and purposes. Gold would be a common currency - but I can't see a logical reason for the 'same' limiting aspect affecting both PvP and the in-map activities. Stamina, basically, prevents anyone doing both PvP and Levelling effectively.

The gist of my idea is to have different sides of your character which you can develop - the existing XP/Levelling side governed by use of stamina, and a new PvP side governed by Prestige - slowly recovered over time, but also gained through attacks, PvP quests etc. This would mean that during the 6 days I am regaining stamina after a hunt I can still log in, play the PvP side of the game, and actually spend MORE time in the community than I do now.

This would allow people to simultaneously enjoy both aspects, without negatively harming either. The other MAJOR change would be that the PvP side would have its own levels/ranks, and hence the PvP side would be independent of your PvE level - something which PvPers have been keen on for ages. It gives everyone more chance to interact.

My guiding principle here is that a gameplay style which only ever affects others negatively is not sustainable, regardless of how it's set up.

Thoughts?

Have you thought about the impact such a change would have on HCS revenue? IE: players donating to buy pvp gear, forge pvp gear, buy stam to relevel or pvp more then their stam gain allows?


stamina = FSP= $$$ for the cows.

Well... if more people PvP'ed, more people would have their own set. Would that offset the players not buying stamina for PvP? I can't say, but maybe.

I would like PvP to be inclusive and operate in tandem, harmoniously, with levelling.

This, what does it mean? What does it imply? That PvP and PvE be completely separate? I really want to support your idea because you usually have good solutions, but if I said "+1" I wouldn't even know what I would be supporting :|

The PvP element of the game needs to be burned down, rebuilt, and reimagined. You need a character building element to it - call them PvP ranks, Thief, Rogue, Master, Guild Leader, Shadow - which you can advance through by engaging in PvP. Otherwise there is no role for this role playing game. That's why XP gain in levelling is appealing to many - there is a tangible (if artificial) sense of progress.

Seems like a huge change. FS is a pretty simple game that was built with very incremental changes. I doubt HCS has to capability to build a compelling and balanced system like the one you describe.

Possibly/probably true. However, unless PvP changes radically I can see nothing ending the impasse we have currently. Some people like PvP now. Others hate it. No amount of tweaking of the parameters within the existing framework has a hope of working!

You can lay a massive system on top of current PvP, but it will always be based on instantaneous attacks. I understand that an optimal system would be very different from the one we have, but what would be the goal of such a system?

The PvP element of the game needs to be burned down, rebuilt, and reimagined. You need a character building element to it - call them PvP ranks, Thief, Rogue, Master, Guild Leader, Shadow - which you can advance through by engaging in PvP. Otherwise there is no role for this role playing game. That's why XP gain in levelling is appealing to many - there is a tangible (if artificial) sense of progress.

Seems like a huge change. FS is a pretty simple game that was built with very incremental changes. I doubt HCS has to capability to build a compelling and balanced system like the one you describe.

so what happens if the target doesnt want to participate at all?

According to what I understand, the player doesn't defend and loses XP and gold. Then he has the option of retaliation hit, bounty or doing nothing.

From what I understand the main purpose of this is giving people a chance to defend. This probably won't promote gold hits, but it could be beneficial to the ladder (by actually knowing who is attacking you, you can react to their setup) and to promote PvP as being more fair.

Whether this would be effective, I leave to others the opportunity to discuss as I am unsure.

all i see are levellers trying to force HCS into completely crushing any form of pvp off the ladder or BB

All I see is a terrible suggestion that a minority of PvP'ers have been trying to push over and over and a decent suggestion which everyone agrees to. But because people don't agree with an idea which is easily abusable we are trying to crush PvP? Puh-lease, the day this idea gets implemented is the day PvP gives way to PvInactive and blatant abuse in lieu of PvP. A terrible idea is a terrible idea.

Maybe just pvper's know whats needed for game?

If an easily abusable system which will ruin leveling and make PvP a joke is what's needed for the game, I'll eat my hat.

It is to be noted that I don't think pvp'ers ideas are bad, I just think that some of PvP ideas pushed by some are terrible... just as some of the ideas pushed by levelers are bad. But when a non-pvper points out a flaw in an idea by a pvper then he is "out to ruin pvp".

So far, instead of finding a way to explain how this would not lead to blatant abuse or find a way to modify it such that there isn't, all that has happened is calling people anti-pvp.

However, the revenge hit idea is still a good one!

all i see are levellers trying to force HCS into completely crushing any form of pvp off the ladder or BB

All I see is a terrible suggestion that a minority of PvP'ers have been trying to push over and over and a decent suggestion which everyone agrees to. But because people don't agree with an idea which is easily abusable we are trying to crush PvP? Puh-lease, the day this idea gets implemented is the day PvP gives way to PvInactive and blatant abuse in lieu of PvP. A terrible idea is a terrible idea.

I think the idea is to hit to get a part of your exp back. If you get hit for gold, it should remain in the hands of the attacker (minus whatever you get back from him on your retaliation hit).

Imagine your leveling session: [ No creatures available. ]

That's more of a reflection of the sad state of the game.