About the PvPxp rewards

Potions are what we used to refer to as consumables use then they are gone in a very limited amount of time

Gear on the other hand is not. My opinion is that I am not adverse to gear being a reward but if so it needs to be crystal and have a very low durability rating so it is broken in a very reasonable amount of time. I also agree it needs to be bound to the person that invents it.

Instead of having resets how about you gain tokens as you level up, 2 per level gained.

if you are de-leveled you have to gain your levels back before you get more points (like vl now) should give more value to pvp xp as well.

This is a very good idea and very simple to work with as well

To be honest being a BH'er is more of a gold sink then a PvP'er is because they need the potions/buffs right now to complete the bounty. They can't ask around and wait so they buy what they can from the AH or now the Bazaar.

lost 5957 gold of which Rebornjedi stole 4468 gold.. This is with Thievery 120% and reckoning kicked in my gloat.. The player had 219k gold.. Still worried about all your gold being stolen? Should I lose levels because of this simple 10 stamina attack?

The main reason I removed both gold theft and xp loss from 10 stam's is to encourage levelers to think about PvP as well. The loss may not be great but it is not often a leveler will damage another leveler with any kind of loss that they value. You have to understand most levelers are of a very different mind set then ether you or I. They will not do something to damage another one of the leveler group unless provoked. On the other hand getting attacked by a PvP'er is a very different matter and they want revenge for that attack.

I want all gold thefts to have the ability for revenge that is a levelers point of view

I want the ability to attack someone for PvPxp and Prestige but no gold with no worries of revenge a PvP'ers point of view. The such small amount of gold is not really worth the 10 stam attack but what I get from prestige and PvPxp might be

Besides the game still gets the small gold sink of both players having to repair gear.

Any gold lost is gold sunk.. No matter how many ways you cut it..

I attack you, gold % is lost.. Gold sunk

You fear being attacked and post in marketplace, you pay to post.. Gold upgrades purchased due to fead of stolen gold.. Gold suck

Repair gear that is damaged in attack on both sides.. Erosion, Breaker, Disarm, Undermine, and Retailate add to that.. Gold sunk..

Potions bought in bazaar or special section to PvP.. Gold sunk..

Bounty tickets bought.. Gold sunk..

PvP has a HUGE impact on fallen sword's economy and could be bigger if XP loss was removed fully.. Between buffs, potions, equipment, upgrades, and other aspects fueled by PvP activity you'd think they would of thought about this sooner..think about how often players level.. Now think about how often you can PvP ;-)

As PvP stands now it is not the same gold sink it was in the past. Yes a small part of the gold lost is sunk but most of it ends up in your pocket which does not remove it from the game just redistributes it.

Yes I post in the MP it costs me a little so a small gold sink

Yes both of us have to repair gear again a very small gold sink

As a PvP'er how many potions do you buy in the Bazaar or from the special section of the AH?? You buy buffs/potions from other players so the gold is still in play in the game for the most part

Bounty tickets is a very small gold sink so yes again.

You attack me for 500k and get say 150k and I lose an additional 50k scattered on the ground. How much do you really spend on special potions?? EW1000 25k maybe but because you can make up the difference by buying buffs/potions like EA, SH, ES, Coord Att and Def why bother for the at level player that is hunting with no defense or armor. Most of what you spend as a PvP'er stays in the game there is no gold sink there.

There are champs down here in my neck of the woods, didn't the cows make them some, too?

They did and you can sit on one with AM 500 and hit it until it is gone but then you have to find another one. Hunt creatures 10 levels down from your level and you get the same kind of xp the at level champ gives you with much less effort and cost.

Why would an EOCr want to lose XP when they can just grind the last creature for guild XP.. That was the only reason why players lost XP before they made the change to grind out guild XP through creatures at EOC..

Before it made a mockery of PvP, the punishment of the BB, and the smasher medal..

Because they don't get the same kind of xp if they are above the creature level. Lose 2 or 3 levels hit the same creature get more xp both for the guild and yourself. Rinse and repeat that is the way it is. As long as you don't change gear or areas you can hunt the same creature 5 to 10 levels down from you

LMAO PvP is not a gold sink all you do is bank it, deposit it to the guild, send it to other guild mates to deposit or in most cases sell it at inflated prices at the market.

A small part of it is lost (that is a gold sink) but PvP for the most part isn't. For PvP to be a true gold sink the numbers would need to be more like as the attacker you get 25% and the other 75% is scattered on the ground.

But that won't happen because then PvP becomes unprofitable unless you are hitting someone holding millions.

PvP as it stands now is a way for players to threaten, intimidate and bully other players/guilds. PvP was not always this way but it is now.

BG wants to change this and at this point the solution is almost worse then the problem in my opinion.

You reside in WK (Warrior Kings), would it surprise you to know that I have a very long time friend in your guild??

I want a reasonable solution from both a levelers and PvP'ers point of view.

Steal my xp/gold I want revenge

Steal this PvPxp not so much depending on what it might be worth.

If gold theft was fully encouraged instead of feared, it would help the game not hurt it.. The reason I stuck with this game in the beginning was because of stealing gold.. There wasn't nor are there many games that allow that.

Wish the cows would just eliminate XP loss to just see how the game runs.. The only thing that could happen is that they learned what would actually happen instead of just assuming what would happen

There are 2 things very important to Levelers, Gold and XP. With the gold from our past hunt we fund our next hunt but if that gold is stolen we ether can't fund the next hunt or have to take from our bank to do so. As it stands now we lose both of what we consider very important to those that don't consider levelers more then a gold bank.

PvP is important to this game I agree but so are the levelers which fund most of this game.

The levelers as a group contribute more to all aspects of the game then single aspect players like PvP'ers.

HCS wants and needs to protect those that want to play different aspects but at the same time playing certain aspects needs to incur risk.

Want to be an Inventor not much risk there, a Scavenger again not a lot of real risk, GvG no risk to you only your guild, Ladder risk, PvP'er risk and Leveler risk.

PvP and Leveler are large parts of the game and both deserve some risk. But if you attack me I want a way to punish you just like you want a way to punish me if I straight out attack you.

We are here for compromise between XP loss and no XP loss. The objective is to stop bashing, stop bullying but still allow for xp loss under very limited circumstances.

BG said nothing about gold theft in his original post just that it was required we find a way to protect players xp. I objected to the removal of all xp loss not only from my point of view but from EOC and others because they want to lose xp and his original plan did not allow for that except by finding a creature and attacking it.

In my opinion the complete removal of xp loss from this game will be detrimental to the game and I speak from a very varied point of view. I have been a BH'er, a PvP'er when needed, a Inventor and someone that helped drive an undesirable from the game. I am a leveler at heart but to experience the game you must play different aspects of it. I have played most but not all aspects of the game. My opinion and mine only but I also speak from experience.

Composing eats up A LOT of gold if done right.. And it can help out yourself and guildmates..

If I was to protect gold for a guildmate/ally naturally I would have an insurance for any gold lost. Maybe sell so e FSP cheap to them.. Guilds are there to protect their members, if a guild can't th . I suggest to move onto another one

I have always sold FSP at a roughly 20% discount to the market to my guild members.

I work at protecting my guild members but with this change all I do is become a target for piddles of gold and that I can't do. I have always tried my best to protect mine in as many ways as possible and  I WILL NEVER SEEK ANOTHER GUILD. I have been in 3 GUILDS IN THIS GAME my original one ME (Middle Eath), Mine DW (Dream Weavers) and now TEG (The Enchanted Garden) and here I will die with the game.

How many others can same the same??

And no I will not explain the history between DW and TEG but suffice to say that we became 1 guild even when we were still 2.

We might lose levelers but we will gain pvpers..

No because with out levelers there will be no targets but other PvP'ers. When I started this game 6 years ago the only time I got attacked was when I was hunting or because guild mates had sent me gold to hold for them. Later I became active in the PvP realms and it happened more but not to the extent that I see possible with the removal of xp loss from the game. I have set weapons free (guild war) twice in this game,  the first time I lost a couple the second time I lost 50+. I am not afraid to lose them for a good reason but most levelers don't want to lose them or even get attacked unless they have been stupid. This change allows for being attacked with no revenge just because you are playing the game. We will lose so many I think it will kill this game that so many of us care about.

if they take away XP loss from the game.. Players better get used to a log full of attacks.. Welcome to an active PvP system

Part of the reason I am here I DON'T want all xp loss removed from the game. If I was a PvP'er a log full of attacks is to be expected but as a leveler I don't want to see that. As has been pointed out in this thread a leveler wants to enjoy the game and not worry too much about being attacked. We will lose levelers if they get up to logs full of attacks and we will lose them in droves. That is not why they play the game.

BG please pay attention to this

Auction house Good

Deposits Good

Market Good

Guild mates now they become a target

Allies same as guild mates

Protect gold is worthless unless we can up it with PvPxp purchase

Deflect all that does is piss someone off and they let there friends know about the target (been there)

There is no way I can go offline even in my armor setup and withstand an attack by someone fully buffed to the gills

Composing maybe I have done a little but it does not eat up that much gold and the potions are bound so I have to wait until they get used to make more or fill up the GS with them which I won't do

I buff myself to hunt for the most part

Other gold sinks I would be very open to I am tired of seeing the market at 200k and above unless there is a cave event ongoing.

And as has been pointed out with no bounty on a gold hit even a 10 stam hit levelers will get hit for even the 26k I am holding now because they would get more form a 10 stam attack on me then killing a creature. The point is to encourage worthwhile PvP not wake up to a log full of attacks because I went offline with 50k on me. What drives levelers away is getting up to a log full of attack notices.

And as has been pointed out with no bounty on a gold hit even a 10 stam hit levelers will get hit for even the 26k I am holding now because they would get more form a 10 stam attack on me then killing a creature. The point is to encourage worthwhile PvP not wake up to a log full of attacks because I went offline with 50k on me. What drives levelers away is getting up to a log full of attack notices.

It is very easy to hide your gold and I do so all the time but when you are in the middle of a bounty or a hunt it is more difficult to do. If I get attacked in the middle of a bounty I take damage to the gear I have been very careful to keep repaired or maybe lose one of the buffs I have on. That difference might be the difference between a win or a loss. I have been a BH'er in the past and in a race to get the reward I really don't want to worry about anything but the target and how he is dressed. I quit when cloak came around mostly because without being able to see what they had on made taking targets at or above my level almost impossible.

So I bounty hunt which gives me PvPxp but I don't normally off board PvP that makes my gold available to be stolen. As a hunter I would not be very happy with that.

On a tablet so not even going to try and quote lol..

About prestige being stolen/reduced.. Im not suggesting it is with regular attacks (maybe only if you lose but it isn't transfered, just sacrificed to gurgriss)..

About gold stolen with 10 stamina attacks.. It will be such a small amount unless master thief kicks in that I don't think retribution via the bounty is needed. You could attack back and gain what you lost.

When I talk about the 2/20% PvP XP gain, I'm not talking about taking that percentage from the defender.. But what you would gain towards your level.. Use my example of how many attacks it would take to gain a level..BUT this is when I was talking about PvP XP and prowess being the two different things

.. If a player can get pvpxp from me yet I can't get it from them then that's not fair.. I remember when you had to be lower than your target o take XP.. Was brutal to swing back and fight for myself to not take any XP from them (then get bountyed and smashed five, interesting enough from my current guild lol).. Want to see a bully tactics with your idea of not being able to take PvP XP from someone lower PvP XP than you - they keep hitting me lowering my PvP XP then getting their own PvP XP lowered by other means.. They can keep on attacking me and I can't do the same damage to them

 

About gold stolen

In some way I agree but in some I don't. Under most circumstances if I am holding a large amount of gold someone is going to 100 stam me.

 

With no bounty on a gold theft attack if I am even holding 50k gold I am a target, if the one that attacked me has hidden/used/given the gold I don't get any back. Better I think to eliminate gold theft form 10 stam attacks besides I think that might get more players to be willing to PvP. A leveler knows how important both xp and gold are which makes them unwilling for the most part to harm other levelers.

 

No PvPxp from lower targets. Maybe something like the ladder ranges would be a better idea. If your PvPxp is higher then mine the amount you take is reduced by a percentage like hunting down level creatures. The reverse would also be true if mine is lower then yours I get a little more for the same kind of attack. The main problem I see is it starts getting complicated and harder for HCS to implement then fixed numbers related to the stam used in the attack would be. 

Also I would like to see prowess locked when you are posted on the BB so it can't be used just lost. This needs additional ideas as well.

Off the board 10 stamina attack earns pvp xp, prowess, prestige, And gold

Off the board 100 stamina attack earns more pvp XP, prowess, prestige, and gold.. Smasher medal is fully returned to ALL PvP attacks.. At risk for a bounty on your head

If my gold is stolen I want the opportunity to place a bounty

Prestige has never been stolen or reduced by attacks and I would rather have it remain that way

Bounty attacks earn PvP Xp and prestige when won.. If you lose, your PvP XP, prowess, prestige it is sacrificed to Gurgriss - it just disappears to not encourage losing on purpose to transfer PvP XP/prowess/prestige..the bounty hunter who completes the bounty earns prowess (down below explains prowess and the bb)

I agree with PvPxp being lost if you lose on the BB as you say that will keep people from trading it on the BB but what about off board trading? Prestige is addressed above

PvP XP is gained off the board in 2%/20% increments by 10/100 stamina attacks.. 50 10 stamina or 5 100 stamina attacks gain one level.. PvP XP is lost/gained at half the amount from bounty attacks, so 100 10 stamina attacks (10 completed bountys) or 10 100 stamina attacks (1 smashed bounty)

This needs additional work.

Example I only have 10 PvPxp (for what ever reason) and someone 100's me they would only get 2 PvPxp from that attack (20% of 10) I believe fixed gain numbers would be better suited.

Also I think that if my PvPxp is less then the attackers the attacker should get nothing which will help keep people from being bullied. Except on the BB where again fixed numbers should apply

PvP XP levels could give us in game benefits like gold theft, prowess/prestige gain, enhancement bonuses, etc.. or could just be a medal/top rated list rewarded system.. PvP XP could be reset (total amount is always recorded but should give no benefit unless it can be reduced) every month and on the last day it resets at a random time during the day.. Resets reward top players with medal ticks, prestige, prowess, gold, etc

Not sure about gold theft but maybe a small enhancement to MT but it should also cost prowess.

Medal/Top rated no problem there

The reset should be more often then every 30 days but should also be random, I would suggest something like every 7 to 10 days

I would like to see prowess be allow to buy prestige as an upgrade

Top players when prowess resets rewards needs to be worked on. I like the idea of gold but if you are offline when it resets it needs to be deposited directly to your bank so it can't be stolen

Prowess is basically PvP tokens.. Off the board 10 stamina attacks gains 1 prowess while 100 gains 10.. With a bounty taking prowess this could be the 'punishment players are looking for.. When a player posts a bounty they can spend their own prowess to have the bounty lose more prowess. Prowess amounts could be shown on player's profiles so those posting a bounty could judge how much they want to spend OR it could be hidden so its a risk of putting up more prowess loss on the bounty!

Too complicated and still allows for bullying

Prowess could be used to buy inventing components for equipment and potions.. Equipment is unbound and potions are bound.. Also prowess could be used to buy prestige..

Nice idea

I also like the idea of prestige being used in increments

I think that are the high points and running out of allowed space lol

I believe PvPxp and Prowess will be the same thing as least that is the impression I have. BG please clarify. 

That was the idea behind Prestige, and I think it was a good one...

Yes and it was for Prestige but what about this PvPxp. Prestige is limited to adding xp from each creature kill. I am afraid that if PvPxp replaces PvP for the most part we will lose Prestige

If the objective is to encourage more PvP then the PvPxp rewards must include things levelers want not just PvP enhancements.

They want input about what we would like for rewards....   

I have not given that any real thought yet

Regardless of what you and I think about it, though, XP loss from PvP will be going forever, both on and off the board.... We really need to really be thinking of ways to make the new PvP XP (Prowess) become valuable.  Let's focus on that, shall we?

We need additional guidance from Hoof and BG about what this PvPxp will have for rewards, without that we are in the dark.