mary4ever

These pots have removed any sort of challenge in the game like Pardoux said above, and this isn't about making PvP easy. In fact, these OP pots have made PvPing easier. Too easy, I'd say. In my previous post, I talked about how PvP use to be challenging. Do I have the right set-up? Do I have the right stats? You actually had to think before attacking. Today, I can chug SH 525, KE 525, and LD 500 with Distil 150, use my hunting set-up, and win every time. PvP shouldn't be that easy. 

Sounds more like a gear issue then a buff issue.

Melons was obviously talking about a buff (skill) issue but you somehow interpreted it as a gear issue

& then later in the same post you say & agree with the following

Everyone keeps comparing castable buffs to composing buffs. I'm sorry but if I want to beat composing buffs then I'm going to use those buffs or better. Just like if I want to beat castable buffs then I'm going to at least use castable buffs. 

in this post you are clearly talking about buffs so that means it is a buff issue !!!

are not you contradicting yourself? when you 1st say it's a gear issue but later in the same post point towards a buff issue???

I'm sorry but if I want to beat composing buffs then I'm going to use those buffs or better. Just like if I want to beat castable buffs then I'm going to at least use castable buffs. 

!!!! EXATLY !!!! it's too obvious & that's what we have been saying from the beginning, read luis post that I quoted !!!

like usual the posts keep going in "circles" which further prove these 2 posts to be true:

Unless Super pots are used against other Super pots it's disingenuous to claim it's challenging to battle an opponent in PvP.

I know that some of you have become addicted to your win-button and you're not willing to let it go

(quote from OP post)

Wyld Titan. If you can 1 hit it without luck buffs kicking in, you are amazing.

"a picture says more than a thousand words"

*had to unblock shortly to reply*

When I first started this game, I wasn't really a PvPer. I gave it a shot when the ladder was first revamped to bands (back when there was no opt-out option), and I would always get my butt kicked by skilled PvPers. I was a noob at PvP, so I always bought every buff I could from players and the auction house. I was so frustrated that I would spend, so much FSP just to end up losing every time. So, one day, I took the time to understand PvP. I played around with set-ups and learned about each of the buffs. Soon enough, after taking the time to learn PvP, I was able to win against other players and place on top of the ladder. 

 

If I started PvPing today, newbie me would still win because I would have OP pots to help me. Back then, it was a challenge to fight others. You could have all the buffs in the game, but if you didn't have any knowledge about PvP you'd lose against a skilled PvPer every time. Today, I can pop a couple of epic pots and smack everyone in my range and win automatically regardless of if I know PvP or not. 

 

Back then, I had a quite a number of different set-ups that I used. Today, I can use only one set-up and win every time with OP pots, regardless of my knowledge of PvP. The challenge that came with PvP, back then, was the reason why I was so drawn to it. I rarely took breaks from the game, but lately, I have been taking months off because there is no challenge left in PvP. I drink a couple of OP pots and poof! Requires no thinking at all.

 

I agree composers have spent countless resources and time to reach 60. However, the fact they can make pots equal to or more powerful than pots from globals, ladder, and donation chests is ridiculous. We don't have globals or chests from donations running every day. Plus, ladder pots require players to play ladder frequently to get the pots. EOC composers have access to them at all times, 24/7. I also agree, if composing pots are nerfed, EOC composer should get some sort of "compensation" for the time and money they have spent. But for the sake of the game, please look over the buffs. 

what a great post

me & many if not all the PvPers I know had the same experience when we 1st started PvP BEFORE OP Composing was released !!!

PvP use to require skill, knowledge, and effort. I'd spend literally days making new sets to have the best stats I could. The OP pots have removed the need for anything but luck. You have to have the same OP pots going to even have a small chance of winning. But even if you have all the same pots going as a target, skill still has nothing to do with who wins. It's all about who gets the lucky buffs activated. Now it is just a weird game of Press Your Luck.

remember the 1st release of SEALED?

once SEALED activated it would negate ALL your opponents skills, so you (fully buffed) would go into battle against an UNBUFFED target (ZERO buffs on him/her) which obviously is an almost WIN-Button / OP skill !!!

some "individuals" tried to arguement that the skill was not an almost WIN-Button / OP skill at all

These pots have removed any sort of challenge in the game like Pardoux said above, and this isn't about making PvP easy. In fact, these OP pots have made PvPing easier. Too easy, I'd say. In my previous post, I talked about how PvP use to be challenging. Do I have the right set-up? Do I have the right stats? You actually had to think before attacking. Today, I can chug SH 525, KE 525, and LD 500 with Distil 150, use my hunting set-up, and win every time. PvP shouldn't be that easy. 

OP pots do NOT only make PvP easier for those who use them against those who do not BUT worst of all make it a 1-sided "slaughter" with hardly any chance for the other party no matter how great a PvPer he / she is !!!

even though these 2 SEs have insanely high stats I can easily kill them + with OP skills I can even 1-hit kill them !!!

we used to create groups (at least me and those I talked to back then) against certain Champs, Elites, Super Elites in order to beat them !!!

I do not think there is currenty any mob (Champ, Elite, Titan, Super Elite) in the game I can NOT 1-hit kill with OP skills !!!

Yesterday I had a DQ to break down 300 items to get 1 AH slot.  Most of the time I wouldn't bother with such a DQ bc I'm lazy.  BUT, I was at max stam (42k+) and was planning a hunt.  So I potted up which included FI 1150 and LL 230.  After my hunt I looked at the counter and it showed 24/300, which I find very odd because I had just burned 42k+ stam.  

 

Before you ask, no I do not have auto discard on, and yes I have auto frag on.

 

 

I have opened a ticket for this already, but was told that the DQ does not count auto fragging; only manual fragging.  My problem with that statement is of course, why is it showing 24/300 when it doesn't count auto fragging.  I did not manually break down any items from this past hunt.

 

With all that being said, has anyone else ran into this issue before?

only read the OP so do not know it that has already been answered (kinda in a hurry but hope it might help)

I have the same "auto frag settings" as you & everytime I get a "breakdown - DQ" it automatically counts towards the progress (without me having to manually break them down) !!!

it always worked 100% for me, I just leave at least 1+ free space (if your BP is full then auto frag will NOT work) !!!

the only "issue" is that the "break-down-TIMER" does NOT update "live", you have to refresh the page to update your progress

Those that couldn't compete before their introduction now can. Is that the problem?

hope you do not mind that I quoted your post:

if OP Composing ONLY allowed those that couldn't compete before their introduction now can then that would NOT be a problem at all BUT unfortunately OP Composing is a 1-sided battle against someone who is NOT using them him- /herself & has been proven by many players (through their experience), especially on the PvP Ladder / GvG !!!

I have been on both ends & know it is a 1-sided battle, can not really call it "competing" when 1 side (OP Composing) is overhelmingly "obliterating" the other one (buffs)

for me OP Composing VS buffs is almost the same as buffs VS NO-buffs, 1 side will obviously have a HUGE advantage & "obliterate" the other one

as usual please feel free to put yourselves "at both ends": use buffs VS OP Composing target & then use OP composing VS buffs target to verify (best on PvP Ladder / GvG) !!!

Unless Super pots are used against other Super pots it's disingenuous to claim it's challenging to battle an opponent in PvP.

I finishing my hunting and I making picture of damage I doing for proof how crazy epic skills is

creature having less than 50k hp and I doing more than 2 million damage

I doing 42 times more damage than creature hp, this not normal, this crazy

this from hunting and in pvp is same problem, there still players who saying epic skills not OP for they can keeping having winning button, lol

42 times is NOT just "overkill", rather a "FATALITY - kill"

I thought I was the only one who noticed those contradicting posts

 

one talks about that he wants a challenge in pvp but is ok with him using epic skills against players who do not, for him that is a challenge

 

another one talks about strategy to beat epic skills but in the end his strategy to beat epic skills is to use epic skills too and epic skills need to stay in pvp

 

the next one has to use epic skills to beat another player with epic skills on the board and at the end of her post she does not want changes or it will ruin pvp

 

the posts do not make sense

are we both the only ones who noticed the contradicting posts?

you are not the only ones who noticed them, why do you think I posted this:

I am grateful to everyone who is trying to promote "fair, strategic and competitive PvP gameplay" (like the OP from wootpk3r) BUT I am most grateful to those who are against it & want EPIC skills (OP Composing) to stay in PvP because their own posts have proven 2 things:

full post can be read there: https://forums.hunte...e=5#entry978427

hehe, nice ATT / DEF stats, over a year ago I reached those insane stats with the help of OP skills:

         &

will soon try how much I can push my stats with the last released sets

What is a challenge for you doesn't necessarily mean it's a challenge for someone else - and vice-versa.

EXACTLY !!!

BUT I doubt anyone would honestly say that it is a challenge / "fair" to compete with OP EPIC skills against buffs (lvl 175) !!!

I can not even imagine it since it would be the same for me as an adult man proudly announcing that he beat a little child (whos half his height / weight) in a tournament !!!

PvP'ing, according to long-time PvP'rs, used to be much more active and much more vibrant before super-pots were available because the calculations and gear swapping was more varied and more intense.

I really miss those times, the 1st time I entered the PvP Ladder I was utterly defeated by Maehdros & Kjeften, 2 excellent PvPers & I obviously lost because I did not know anything about PvP !!! BUT if we had OP Composing back then, then I (who had ZERO PvP experience) would have beaten these 2 excellent PvPers if they only used their buffs (lvl 175), 2 excellent PvPers would not have had any chance against me back then (who had ZERO PvP experience)

Please keep the thread constructive and continue to give feedback on this. The aim should always be to improve the game (for everyone) so please keep that in mind when making any suggestions for changes and tweaks

♥ ♥ totally agree ♥ ♥

since some are still desperately trying to keep their WIN-Button (OP Composing) regardless of the negative effects they have on PvP (PvP Ladder, BB, GvG, relic battles), they now want to increase the castable buffs (lvl 175)

here are some CONS from the top of my head why it is NOT a good idea to increase the castable buffs (lvl 175)

• HCS & especially hoof have said many times over the years that the castable buffs will NOT exceed lvl 150 !!! (they can be increased to lvl 175 with 100% Fury Caster & to lvl 192 with Buff Enhancer)
• if the castable buffs are increased then they will negatively affect many other "potions" (from the arena, caves, inventable ones, .....) & "gameplays", incl potion sellers !!! remember when OP Composing was released many potions lost a lot in value (especially KE pots because OP Composing had a very high one at lvl 350[403]) + arena players were not that happy since their pots (Conserve300, LIB300, LF600, ......) were now on the same level as OP Composing or even lower !!! so HCS had to increase Conserve to 350, LIB to 350, LF to 1000, ...... !!! meaning that some pots levels will have to increase again to keep up with the castable buffs !!!
• the higher the skill levels in PvP the higher the difference in stats will become between "low" & "high" players !!! (EXAMPLE: "value 2" (stands for low lvl player) & "value 4" (stands for high lvl player), between the values 2 & 4 there is a difference of only 2, if we multiply them with "3" (3 is randomly choosen BUT skill levels multiply % to your stats), "value 2" becomes 6 & "value 4" becomes 12, between the values 6 & 12 there is now a difference of 6 !!! as you can see the higher the skill level (assuming both use the same skill level) the worse / more disadvantage it gets for the low lvl player !!!
• once we open the "door" to increase certain castable skills it will NOT stop at that & other skills will follow, I can imagine levelers asking to increase "their castable buffs" too since PvP skills got increased, potion sellers asking for "their castable buffs" to increase, ....... "a never ending cycle of doom"

IMO the game does NOT need more OP skills !!!

ps: as you have noticed I am going against "things" (OP composing, castable buffs, ....) that would rather benefit me !!! I am at "EOC", have TONS of frags at my disposal to create TONS of OP EPIC skills (grim / hoof, please feel free to post my frag amount ), I am against those "things" that would rather benefit me because they are "bad" for the game in general & it is the right thing to do so !!!

Its not just about composing.

Composing potions aren't even with the worst offenders in this overpowered potion tragedy, they are just the most easily accessible.

I agree with you BUT because OP Composing are the most easily accessible (like you said) they are IMO the most "dangerous" ones !!!

if I may I will try to explain (using my experience), 1st half will be about donation & GE chests and the 2nd half will be about OP Composing:

1st) against donation & GE chests

as many know I used to play the PvP Ladder for years without opting-out once during that time BEFORE Composing was released (not during XP Events, Special Events or even to level up, never) !!!

back then it was buffs lvl 175 VS buffs lvl 175, I had many different setups & once a new set was released I had to change my setups to adapt

the only "problem" I faced back then was when a player used a donation chest &-/ or a GE chest !!! the donation chests were not as bad to battle against as the GE chests because the donation chests only had 1-2 EPIC PvP skills (for EXAMPLE: Seafarers Chest with SH 550 & LD550 with a duration of 120 min OR the Thornvine Chest with Berserk400 & LD500 with a duration of 180 min), depending on my opponents setup & PvP experience I could still beat him

it got realy problematic when someone used GE chests (KE525, Flinch525, Terrorize525, SH525, CoA525, CoD525, ...... with a duration of 240 min), hardly any chance to beat those EPIC Skills unless some LUCK skills activate or just hoping the opponent would keep getting deflected until they expire

donation chests & GE chests are very limited in numbers ("certain amounts" obtainable during "events" so a player could only hide behind them for a short time !!!

2nd) against OP Composing

much later after Composing was released I joined the PvP Ladder again & there was 1 player FULLY composed 24/7 & NEVER changed his setup, he had 1 single PvP setup the WHOLE time, always the same one & always stayed at 1st place !!! I tried to PvP with my measly buffs at lvl 175 BUT I ended up like the other ones in my band, I hardly stood any chance against his EPIC skills, my years of PvP experience had ZERO affect against a player who tried PvP for he 1st time with the help of 1 single setup & OP composing !!!

I knew that composing was giving players an advantage BUT NEVER would I have thought how ridiculously powerful they trully were !!! I had many loses against him & only managed to win 2 times (both due to some LUCK skills activating for me)

at that time my composing was very low so I ordered some from a friend

AFTER I used OP composing too PvP took a 180° for both of us, I kept winning against him because NOW my years of PvP experience actually mattered since both of us were using EQUAL skill levels !!! I took the #1 spot from him easily since he really could not PvP at all & the other PvP Ladder Participants were out our mercy, NONE of them (they kept using buffs at lvl 175) managed to ever beat me once while I was using OP Composing !!!

shortly I opted-out & never returned to the PvP Ladder, for ME this was not PvP at all, from then I did some PvP on the BB & if my opponent used OP Composing then I had to use (or better said was forced) to use OP Composing too to be able to compete against him / her !!!

OP Compsing are almost "unlimited" in numbers (many ways to get frags from farming while hunting, LE Events, Chomper Events, ALL Global Events, realm chests, .....) so a player could hide behind them for a very long time !!!

as proof: many of us have seen players staying buffed with OP composing 24/7 for weeks, even for months !!!

+ let us not forget that those OP skills HUGELY affect PvP Ladder, GvG, normal PvP, BB, relic battles !!!

ps: some of you may remember how the skill Sealed worked when it was 1st released (Sealed used to negate ALL your opponents skills during combat), way TOO powerful !!!

the "current" Sealed we know negates only 2 skills during combat !!!

the "old" Sealed used to be called a WIN-BUTTON & thus had to be changed !!!

at this point I want to copy & paste (can not quote because the topic there got locked) an excellent post from a well known PvPer (his own experience): (red = hoof, yellow = bilops)

Hoofmaster, on 08 Jul 2016 - 22:28, said:

Note this is just a question based on what I've been reading. Is the main issue here that you feel the high level composed potions have an adverse affect on PvP? And a solution to this would be to restrict (or cap) some of the potions levels when using in PvP?

before I start, I am a 60 composer, was one of the first 10 to reach that level, until level 58 I bought my frags from farmers at 80-100 frags / 1 fsp, did global events every time with global booster 863, spent over 15k fsps to level composing, buy frags from farmers and 100s of frag stashes, I had 3 composing bugs that destroyed and took 1000s of my frags and I lost all my SE frags because of this bugs and HCS had to fix the bugs 3 times for me but never returned any lost frags back to me (biggrim can prove this, we talked many times about it)

last year after I got level 60 composer I started to pvp

pvp ladder band

there was a player who was always buffed with composing pots the whole time for 2 months, he always got first place after reset, I joined the ladder band and used my composing potions, for 1 month I got first place every time, the other composed player did not know how to pvp, only to keep himself with composing potions 24 / 7, I always got first place, he alwas got second place and the others in our band never hit us, they gave up because they had no chance against our overpowered composing skills, they only had 175 buffs lol

pvp activity only increased for me (and the players who used composing too)

for the others pvp activity decreased, they knew they did not stand a chance against our stats

pvp

2-3 weeks I hit for gold and prestige, won 100% of my battles with composing pots, less that 5% hit back but everyone lost against my composing pots

pvp activity only increased for me (using composing pots)

for the others pvp activity decreased

pvp bounty board

3 weeks there were bounties on me, more than 60 bounties expired, players stopped placing bounties on me because they would expire too, many bounty hunters took my bounties but nobody was able to clear one bounty, all expired, only 1 player started using epic global skills against me, after 20 straight losses he used composing potions too and after 2 hours he gave up, he won 4 times (everytime with 2 or more luck skills activate together), I deleveled many players defending on the BB, I never posted anyone, they lost enough against my composing skills

pvp activity only increased for me (using composing pots)

for the others pvp activity decreased

gvg

for 1 month I won all gvg attacks, I hit offline, online, unbuffed, fully buffed, in epics, in pvp setup, did not matter, I hit everyone in my range, I could not lose with composing pots against them and never lost, nobody attacked me for 1 month while I stayed in composing, after I stopped using composing pots gvgers started attacking me again

gvg activity only increased for me (using composing pots)

that was the last time I did any pvp, I retired from pvp, a pvp / gvg system where composing players have a win button against players who use 175 buffs, for gvg a composing player can easy win against a pvp setup players with full buffs, reason why many guilds stopped buffing members in gvg, this year and last year I was always attacked by a player with composing pots (ke, sh, coordinated attack, flinch,...........), a pvp / gvg system where there is no challenge

mary posted 1 or 2 years ago for composing activate only in pve or maximum level of composing in pvp be at 200

Hoofmaster, on 08 Jul 2016 - 22:28, said:

Is the main issue here that you feel the high level composed potions have an adverse affect on PvP?

yes, they do, but not only on pvp, gvg and bounty board too

Hoofmaster, on 08 Jul 2016 - 22:28, said:

And a solution to this would be to restrict (or cap) some of the potions levels when using in PvP?

in my opinion it is best to cap the potions at 200, players can have a better and fairer chance when they use buffs at 175 to 192 against them

seeing things live would be best for you hoof

look at gvg attacker when they attack, most of them use composing pots because it is safer, defender has no to little chance against them

look at the BB, gvg, pvp pladder when players use composing pots how easy they beat the other targets

this forum post is for hoof, answered his question here

how are you hoof, everything alright with you / family / company?

------------------------------ END ----------------------

the complete post can be found there:

https://forums.hunte...=11#entry966566

I am grateful to everyone who is trying to promote "fair, strategic and competitive PvP gameplay" (like the OP from wootpk3r) BUT I am most grateful to those who are against it & want EPIC skills (OP Composing) to stay in PvP because their own posts have proven 2 things:

1st)

I know that some of you have become addicted to your win-button and you're not willing to let it go

regardless of the negative effect they have on PvP (PvP Ladder, GvG, normal PvP, BB, relic battles) !!!

2nd)

Unless Super pots are used against other Super pots it's disingenuous to claim it's challenging to battle an opponent in PvP.

if they really wanted to make a "valid" point / persuade hoof then they would have at least tried to go up with only buffs at lvl 175 against EPIC Skills to somehow try to prove that the one with the EPIC skills does not have an overwhelmig advantage / almost WIN - Button against the one with only buffs at lvl 175 !!!

it really does not take a genius to see that the value 350 - 580 (=EPIC skills) is greater than the value 175 (=buffs) !!!

ps: I did not quote anyone to avoid any bickering

While they are not as expensive as Epic chests once you have leveled up, they still are a nice gold sink and substantial initial investment.

 

Also they act in a similar fashion to max stamina. It is a large initial investment, but a cheaper alternative in the long run to buying stamina with fsp all the time.

sorry I do not understand the point you want to make

unless (I am assuming here) you want to "defend" OP Composing with just that they are a gold sink

do you mind explaining?

The fact remains that it takes a lot of time, gold and frags to get your composing level up there. 

as the fact remains that once you leveled up, OverPowered potions are available for "peanuts" !!!

acknowledging 1 of them while disregarding the other one is just foolish !!!

Is there specific buffs you feel are overpowered at high levels? Could you give me some examples?

1st of all THANK YOU !!! THANK YOU !!! THANK YOU !!! THANK YOU !!! THANK YOU !!! THANK YOU !!!

been trying for over 2+ years to get your attention on this subject but finally you are here

unfortunately OverPowered skills have crippled all kind of "PvP" (PvP Ladder, BB, GvG, relic battles) activities !!!

the most "damage" to PvP has been undoubtly done by Composing !!!

here are the Composing skills that are OP & IMO should be changed to only work in PvE !!! (they should not work in PvP)

as you can see I did not include any of the leveling skills like (LF, AM, .....) since I mostly care for the PvP aspect of the game, if the levelers are happy with the mindless hunting (1,2,3,R, ....) then who am I to get involved in their game-style, I hardly level, once or twice a year & only do that so that I can level into the range with the most players because of the measly -/+ 10 attack range !!!

I did not include Anti Deflect so it could counter Deflect192 !!!

I did not include Entrench mainly because the skill level (1 - 200) is only adjustable through Composing !!!

the number OP epic skills like donation chests, Global chests, .... are limited EXCEPT for COMPOSING !!!

the number of OP Composing skills are almost "unlimited" (as long as you have frags but frags are very easy to get incl that EVERY LE & GE rewards them !!!

there are players with millions of frags (I know of at least 10+ people) so we can create TONS of EPIC OP skills ourselves !!!

as mentioned before OP Composing has crippled PvP:

• PvP Ladder: has become a joke, just look at the bands where players use them to constantly stay at the top, those of us who had to go against them fully know that to compete against OP skills you have to use OP skills yourself !!! I have helped many players (most were NON PvPers) get their Dominance medal in about 2 weeks since nobody (who only used buffs) could stop them while they were composed, only another OP composed player could compete against them !!!
• BoutyBoard: have seen many bounties expire from players who used OP Composing pots, incl. me too ....
• GvG: I used to be GF of a very good GvG guild (before OP Composing was introduced), we would go offline in PvP setups & when we were under attack we would buff to defend incoming attacks !!! BUT after OP Composing it hardly mattered anymore if you buffed the target with buffs since most attackers were using OP Composing & the difference in stats were simply too great, GvG guilds know exactly how OP Composing has negatively affected GvG !!! when I was doing GvG attacks I hit EVERYONE, did not matter if the target was buffed to the teeth or unbuffed, did not really matter since I was composed up & never lost a battle !!!
• relic battles: those of us who have been in relic battles know that OP composing has a huge impact !!! you can achieve insane stats attacking / defending ......

@hoof: you do not have to listen to anything I or anyone says, since you are an admin & have access to see things "behind the scenes", you can observe how players use OP composing almost as a "WIN - button" on the (PvP Ladder, BB, GvG, relic battles) & "wiping out" any players who are not using OP composing themselves !!! access player logs, see for yourself the frag amount some players have (millions of frags to create TONS of EPIC OP Composing skills), the person you should trust the most should be yourself, trust what you see / observe

some great posts:

I know that some of you have become addicted to your win-button and you're not willing to let it go, after all buying our way through everything is part of the Fallensword culture imo, but let's be real here, those potions have absolutely wrecked pvp into oblivion!

My problem with this 'uber' buffs goes beyond their use in pvp, it comes down to the fundamental watering down of the game mechanics themselves. When you can mindlessly drink a few of this grossly overpowered potions and then blindly roflstomp anything and everything that comes your way, then you have lost some of the magic that used to make the game a good game.

 

We no longer need to work things out, taking the mathematics out of a maths based game is just illogical.

 

The OP had it right though, quite a lot of us have become so hopelessly dependant on our own private win buttons (make no mistake, that is precisely what these are, unless you are completely incompetent) that they will fight tooth and nail to keep them, and have come up with all kinds of justifications as to why it is okay to water the game down.

 

When I initially saw this thread I simply smiled to myself and thought, "I agree wholeheartedly, but nothing is going to change." Then I saw that you yourself had spoken up here and I thought, "What the hell, maybe it's not pointless after all."

 

So in essence my problem with these buffs, is that they make everything too easy and take away our need to think.

Unless Super pots are used against other Super pots it's disingenuous to claim it's challenging to battle an opponent in PvP.

& hoof, PLEASE do not "leave" before you have taken care of this "issue"(been over 2+ years), let's make the "1st step" & start moving away from watering down PvP !!!

ignoring the problem does NOT make it go away, it is prolonging the inevitable !!!

(in general)