Kedyn

Only the active will stay top. It has nothing to do with "farming", if you call being active and GvGing other guilds regardless of their rating, farming, then I must say that I have lost any hope for finding a common tongue with you and we have to agree to disagree.

 

Look into the Palantir for a second. I know it is hard facing the truth. But just for a second, take a good honest look on the current state of the GvG ladder. Dead, rotten to its core, a barren wasteland. You could just nuke it by applying a complete rating wipe, similar to the PvP Ladder. But would it truly solve the problem itself? No, all it will do is just cut the healthy and the dead, like amputating a festering wound before it infects the whole body.

 

Guilds will always fall inactive at some point. And the rating is vanishing with them. Rating wont be lost with my idea.

I am open for many great other ideas aswell. But as of now the only other viable solution would be a complete wipe. Not changing the ladder at all is like ignoring progressing cancer. And in its current state its critical but still healable.

On your first note I quoted - that's exactly what farming is. The idea that you most likely target guilds that won't hit back, and some that may hit back (but have probably failed from past hits), is the exact idea and argument of farming. If you want to be able to hit the higher up guilds, then start recruiting members outside of your group. You shouldn't be able to expect to be first place because you're active and leaving yourself with only one grouping of players that can hit or retaliate.

As for what you've said about the GVG ladder? Yes it's dead, but obviously you didn't read my post before. I feel there are a few main reasons it's dead.

1) Most of the hardcore GVG'ers who care about rating have come and gone. I can name many of the players who have left that were in guilds in the top 10 who really cared about winning and the pure art of GVG - not for RP.

2) Rating transfer is still off. We still do not get rating (even after the last update) for anyone that we hit in the top 10 that we can. I'm sorry, but there really is no reason for us to GVG outside of enjoying the rush of playing, which we do from time to time. When there is only stuff to lose by the small chance of 2% or a great GVG, there really is only defending

3) There have been no new RP items, and most of the current RP items have lost their shininess (due to new and better titan and inventable epics). While introducing new RP items will help create more activity in GVG, it still doesn't really help the meaning of GVG - going guild versus guild - not 2 on 1 player, not focusing on groups that won't hit back. RP rewards were the reason farming guilds were created and why players were paid for GVG. 

4) If  you want to see more activity in the top list - then create a rotating type of ladder like the PVP ladder. Keep one that has overall highest rating and then one that creates activity based (get more rating for winning against guilds who have higher rating). Make it so on the ladder, you can only hit guilds that have an active target within the past 15 minutes, and if all in the guild are offline for more than a day, you're guild is reset to 1000 rating. I don't care if oyu require guilds to opt-in or not, but reward the top guilds with additional RP or some special reward.

Rewarding GVG activity for just being active is getting RP to trade for items to sell or create. More rewards should be earned for being higher in the ladders. I would equate it to a global event. Players are rewarded for getting the required number of kills. However, being in the top 100, or even the top 3, you are able to get more / better rewards.

If you, as a specialized team, have a problem with not being able to hit the top guilds, you have 1 of 3 choices. 1) you recruit outside of your specialized range to be able to hit the top guilds. 2) you accept the fact that you may or may not be able to reach the top rankings in GVG. 3) you have a request like this where you try to get the top guilds who have earned their palce to start losing rating and then start to reward mediocrity and activity.

I'm in agreement with Par, Luis and Ring on this in the following ways:  

1) I don't think we need to get any more powerful buffs - I think the max cap for composing is probably where it should be. We don't need to be able to invent more epic-leveled buffed potions. Leave those for globals and donation pots. Personally, I would say that composing pots should be reduced in level, but allow us to increase duration a bit more. However, I know that won't happen, so leaving them where they are for now is great.

2) I don't mind seeing new buffs brought out, but they shouldn't be at game-breaking levels. If anything, make it a little better than buffs that you can cast or around about the same as potions that are inventable. If you want to increase the cap, that's fine.

@Bildor - maybe I missed something, but I had though originally that composing would only be to 50, and that they may add more levels, which they did to 60. I hadn't seen anything that said they would raise it again, but could definitely be wrong. 

That's how it used to be done. 

Throwback to the olden days:

NEW arena recipes require UNBOUND PvP ladder items !!!

the PvP ladder resources are BOUND which are NOT needed in the arena recipe !!!

 

NEW PvP ladder recipes require BOUND PvP ladder resources !!!

I was thinking this same thing - it gives those PVP players who were hoarding the tokens a nice little way to profit. However, it'll be profit whether it's bound or unbound - as players will flock to sell the PVP items (whether it's after inventing the gear or just the resources themselves). 

In the end - those players saving their tokens are the winners - as they'll profit the most out of this. 

Okay, I do like the new sets, thank you for them! And I know that you're trying to integrate different aspects of the game, BUT, the new arena sets require OLD ladder items. Not only does this require ladder tokens but also old LE gear which is very low in stock. Guess we won't be seeing many of these items for a while. Also while the ladder players can buy unbound arena resources to invent their sets, arena players can't buy ladder resources to invent their sets :/

My guess is we may see an LE event here soon enough to be able to bring in some of these items - hopefully targeted around the LE's that are needed to make these new recipes. 

Will you be posting about buffs in this guide? Since it's a major part of GvG..

I would assume that you could point him to Chazzz's thread regarding PVP. Granted, I think we need to get someone able to pick up on Chazzz's thread and update it for the new buffs that were added to the game. I don't think you need to really take the time to put the buff information in here, but I could be wrong as well.

I just wanted to point out that while it's nice getting a deal at anytime, the gold upgrades page offers a discount of up to 5 additional backpacks for ~25% less then even this "Flash Sale" deal!!

 

Could you guys throw deals out for players on upgrades that are actually cheaper?

I would have to say that even though the gold upgrades are cheaper, you are maxed at 5 upgrades. The idea that you get a 33% discount on the ability to buy 1995 other slots at a reduced price, I think that it is well enough.

I'm glad to see there are some "flash" sales, which is a step in the right direction for getting some extra donations from players if they want to take advantage, or a way to reduce some of the FSPs players may be saving up that may turn into donations the next time an offer is going on.

For future rewards, I would think so yeah - I think it's a good thing to involve many aspects of the game in the recipes to both increase participation in them or to encourage players to trade

Hoof - can we see GVG updated prior to Arena? There have been plenty more updates more recently for arena than there has been for GVG.

That reaction before even checking recipes.

 

Nothing wrong with buying arena crystalline items to invent new sets.. for now item worth 5 fsp instead of 1 fsp which is good for market and whole game.

By that mentality, wouldn't it also be fair to say that new arena recipes should require PVP ladder resources to invent?

I understand the idea of mixing and combining multiple areas of the game to create the items, however, it's only beneficial for Arena Players on the Ladder with lots of tokens. I wouldn't say it's better for the whole game. 

Well...As far as I can see it, the only problem about adding Titans on the keyboard kills is because it's harder to kill it with the mouse, you need some miliseconds to move the mouse to the right place...But is it something we really need to save?

Each hunt over a Titan is a pain for me, because I ALWAYS move to 'Attack Player' page because of the lag, what makes me lost some time opening the World again and setting the page correctly to hunt again...At least that problem would be solved.

But I believe that should not be added at 1~8....Champions and Titans should be killed with the '9' key...That would be great.

Well it is placement of the mouse, but I do get the same things - lag or not with the Attack Player page and the message page. I believe if those were removed it'd be fine.

I also find myself getting into the highlighting of the titans name often whenever I get annoyed at the attack titan. If it would make it so that I couldn't highlight the titan's name, that'd be great and I wouldn't suggest the number for a titan. 

Making the titan #9 or whatever number would be fine. If it doesn't happen, that's fine too. I just figured it'd be easier for those who may have the slower connections who get the attack player page over and over rather than being able to teleport or move onto a square and press a number. 

I agree with the above statement wholeheartedly - but, we as players are the architects of our own demise in the scenario above.

 

1. We wanted new, better gear

2. We wanted new, better buffs

3. And now, we wanted new, better and higher level potions

 

So, what has to happen now to give the game challenge back ? - levelling has to be made more difficult, monsters need to have stats that make players THINK about what to wear, to THINK that they may have to CHANGE gear in a hunt to progress safely ?

 

BUT, if we do that, guess what will happen ?

 

See points 1, 2 and 3 above

 

We, as players, have been pandered to for too long now for content to revert back to the "good old days" where gear lasted a few levels, not a few HUNDRED levels ...

Par,

I completely agree with your point. I think I've made it multiple times in the past - we are our own worst enemies when it has come to breaking the game per-say. We wanted more buffs, we wanted stronger buffs, we wanted better gear, and I completely understand that HCS was trying to make us happy and keep us interested. I do think that no matter what happens, those items are going to repeat themselves.

Players will still want new buffs, new gear, new levels. However, I think it should be a continuous cycle for HCS (updating monsters stats to keep up with the latest buffs), bringing in new sets, new buffs, etc. We have been getting the new sets and buffs, but the monsters really have never changed. I don't expect HCS to go back through the ranges of monsters and update each one individually, but it's part of the issue that the monster stats have never really changed, even though the players ability to gain much higher stat numbers has increased.

On another side - I do think that the range of EoC does have some impact on new players. They see "oh wow, there's 2600+ levels of content, great". However, FS is based really on competition and friendship I feel. That is why there's a lot of "Top" medals and lists. That's why if you look at the medal list, there is one for being #1 in month, #1 in game, #1 in holding hold, etc. There are also medals for other areas of the game - titan hunting, bounty hunting, smashing, which is great. I do think there is some issue when newer players realize that they'll never achieve those medals, which happens in games whenever they've been around as long.

I think, we as the community and HCS, need to figure out what will bring new players into the game (mobile app will help), and what will help retain players. I think it's the 2nd piece that Belaric is trying to help solve, and I think Bel's post is a start. For me, it's the other areas of the game which are more challenging that I enjoy, and the friends that I've made. A lot of the lower level players I talk to I try to advise them into trying other aspects of the game. I try to give them advice from my own experience, and try to show them how other areas of the game could be fun.

At the end of the day, our gaming experience is going to require new blood being introduced into the game. We need the new life to continue the purchasing of FSP to help keep the game alive. Sooner or later, the players who are currently in the game are going to stop spending at some point, unless there is reason for them to do so (ie new gear, new level ranges, etc). At some point players will stop donating, which we need the new life to pick up the spending so that HCS keeps the game alive.

It might feel a little unfair to have xp events for only players below a certain level, but I think it may be worth exploring the idea of applying an increase to the xp gained below a certain level (maybe some percentage of the current max content level) to give new players a better chance to catch up with players who have been playing for ages.

I think Bel's post has merit. Even though it's "unfair" to those above the level for the XP bonus, maybe you don't even need to express it in a full-out post. Maybe you can have "surprise" events for those levels, where some players will be able to take advantage, and others not.

You hit on a point that I'd like to expand on - many medals for newer players are simply out of reach. A new player most likely will never reach the top 250 players in the game, without dropping a lot of cash - plain and simple. I think we need to work ways into breathing new life into the game, even if it's at some expense of older players (we can make concessions). I don't think anyone would be opposed to seeing the game at the levels it was 5-6 years ago. 

The shear amount of levels between starting and hitting EoC is probably a deterrent to playing. Allowing players to level up through the ranks of the lower levels is definitely a worthwhile consideration. Whether it's increasing the XP from those monsters from 1x to maybe 1.25x at all times with some added XP events for under 1k. 

I think another factor adding to the "fizzle" out of players is there is no difficulty to the game. When trying to level, or most aspects in the game, you're just sitting there buying all the buffs you can, putting on the most sets to increase your stats the most, and hitting 1-8. There is no difficulty with the buffs that have been granted anymore. There is no "well if I switch to this set, I may be able to 2-hit safely", or "if I switch out these 3-4 pieces of equipment, I'm able to take this monster on". It really is "okay let me look at the guide to see what gear I need, pull all buffs including composing potions and just mindlessly hit the keys". There is no difficulty anymore in hunting - absolutely none. Sure there are some levels (prior to level 60 composed pots), where 1 hitting was almost impossible - not anymore. It's part of the reason I enjoy GVG and PVP - at least there is some variety and thinking behind it when dealing with other players that understand math and the buffs/stats. 

Aiming to get some more potion rewards added next week

Hoof,

Can we stop adding higher level potions to the game? I don't think it's necessary. Composing already is high enough, and really has broken a lot of the game in terms of PVP advantages, hunting advantages and other things.

Let's think about creating potions that are higher than the buffs available (ie 180+), but are not on epic potion terms. Let's leave the epic potion values to the global events and rewards for purchasing FSP. Let's not keep the trend of the PVP season rewards going on, and let's not create anything that will continue to break the game.

I'm sure most PVP'ers will be more than happy to have rewards that are better than buffs and that have longer durations. If you can have a buff like Shield Wall or something that lasts longer than a person is able to cast the buff, then the potion will be "useful" enough I think. Not sure what others think, but I'm completely against creating more game breaking potions that give buffs that are game-breaking. 

Using gear as an example, each time that you bring in a new set, it usually outdates an old set of some type of gear. Each time you bring in new and higher level potions, it out-dates others, and eliminates the need for some potions. Let's try to avoid that by playing these rewards more smart. Mix in the buffs with some composing skills (because not everyone levels composing, or has access to those potions), and give longer durations, so that players are able to keep themselves buffed for longer periods so they aren't as "easy" of a target while they are offline - at work, with life or sleeping.  

Thanks, 

My argument is simple. So you are saying the 2nd P has no right to speak (or write) their opinion here?

No - I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that 2'nd P is a big portion of the reason why we are in this situation we are in today with PVP. Most of the concessions/changes around PVP has been around the voice of the 2nd "P" while ignoring the voices of the 1st. It doesn't matter if the voices of the first actually helped the 2nd - it was the 2nd's voice that was still heard. 

I have no issue with hearing both sides, and personally, I try to think from both sides. I've been part of each one. It would help if more players actually tried to think this way through as well, but a lot haven't taken the time to experience both sides. Seasons kind of helped that, if you look through some/many of the posts. However, it was "PVP" without any repercussions outside of lost stamina and some gold if you were holding onto it. 

At the end of the day, I want a more popular game with many aspects. If the only voice that is heard is the 2nd voice in PVP, then we might as well cut one more aspect out completely. 

Care to explain why prices suddenly started to drop rapidly when CD came out and when TD came out then? If you can provide a valid argument i'll be forced to agree . 

Cooldown was a necessary component of the game. If all titans were owned by the same few groups, which they were in the beginning, those groups can collude to keep prices high. I think you're forgetting a few key pieces of economics.. supply and demand.

The cool-down allowed other guilds to join in the spoils of titans. Other guilds were able to gain secures or more TKP by killing the titan while major titan hunting guilds couldn't hunt. Sure it hurt those guilds who solely wanted to hunt titans, but helped those guilds who didn't have the speed/access to hunt against the fastest hunters.

After cooldown happened, the price of epics went down because the supply was going up, and demand was going down. Currently, there are only a set number of active players in the game, and by this point in the game, the players/guilds who want the epics have mostly bought the epics they want. The demand is becoming lower, while supply is still increasing because titans continue to spawn. 

If HCS creates another epic that gives better stats (Stam gian/hr) than the prior epics value automatically drops. The new epic is highly in demand for those who want the most stam/hr, which gives it a high price in the beginning. As the supply of those items increases, demand will slowly decrease based on players who have purchased. At some point in time, there is an over-abundance of the epics, which creates pricing wars for those who want to sell quickly. The other epics will have deteriorated because players who have replaced it will want to sell it, and the titan will continue to spawn. 

Nutcracker is an example of an epic that works well - there is a limited spawn time and it's one of the best epics. That is why that epic holds the value it does. If HCS were to release an epic that has more stam/hr than the ring, then the ring wouldn't be worth as much to most players (not including arena players). 

The biggest issue is trying to continually increase the demand of the item, which there are some ideas here to do so for a limited period. The best solution is to create a continual flow of new players who will create the demand on their own for these items.