274 replies to this topic

[datman67]

But even without any SAC the gold gained 10-20 levels down might as well be a big fat goose egg .. we need hoof to verify the formula just to set the minds at ease that are concerned about gold coming into the game

Well they can check back in my account if it is even feasible to go back to September 2012 when think was the last time I ever bought an FSP with gold lol

[MrSiggs]

no surprise there datman67..after all,you stated that beside the top 20 guilds that you have donated more than the rest of fs..so why would you need to..but to threaten game admin by not donating was appalling and to see that most replies to this post were made by people that have the most to lose by policies/rule changes is also no surprise..this is my final post to this topic by saying that I believe there is enough reasons stated here to implement changes but whatever the game admin decides to do..I hope it is for the best interest of the game and not by threats of players not donating 

[sweetlou]

 I must also stress that you can NOT delevel yourself below your XP lock on a creature ..

This is an easy fix, sell an unlock of xp lock. Please stop using "free" medal enticements and relevel all you want the 'ol fashion way. What's wrong with that? Please explain.

[EpicPiety]

no surprise there datman67..after all,you stated that beside the top 20 guilds that you have donated more than the rest of fs..so why would you need to..but to threaten game admin by not donating was appalling and to see that most replies to this post were made by people that have the most to lose by policies/rule changes is also no surprise..this is my final post to this topic by saying that I believe there is enough reasons stated here to implement changes but whatever the game admin decides to do..I hope it is for the best interest of the game and not by threats of players not donating 

How is that appalling lol donating is an option anyway.

[sweetlou]

Threatening not to donate never has made any difference. It is a last ditch attempt when no other arguments work.

[Uncle Beg]

Thank you to those that provided constructive feedback and stayed on topic.  You guys are one of the reasons FS is fun and interesting for everyone because the goal is to improve the game for everyone.

 

There are a lot of details and valid discussion points.

However, the main point is EXPLOITATION.

Ultimately, it's up to HCS to decide if an exploit is allowed or not.

[MrSiggs]

How is that appalling lol donating is an option anyway.

threatening game admin..that is how it is appalling..or don't you read the entire message ??

[datman67]

MrSiggs said

 

    A very easy fix to this huge problem would to discontinue giving guild xp to those who level under their VL.

 

This is easy enough I think. We ought to be able to do this.

 

This was put out by BigGrim and was reason for the protest Mr. Siggs not the whole sit on one creature thing. The thing is at 100k stamina and using all 750 potions I can hunt regular creatures of  my current level and work my way up like you said. However I can get 200 levels in a non double event just doing this. So with hunting 6 times a year two of them being double events I can do 1600 levels. Now if the team is only continuing to make 25 levels a month, that means I can make only 300 levels in one year. So after 1 double event and I already have my 300 levels for the year I can sit there and do nothing as don't want to compete against pvp players or gvg. So unless the team was able to make 1600 levels in one year, I have no choice but to get de-leveled and re-level again. If i can't get a benefit such as guild xp then there is no reason to spend the stamina doing it. Now the fact that times me by a bunch of players in the same situation as at current rate would  be 400 players at EOC by the end of next year as only 25 levels a month is nothing to them. That would mean these 400 players would have an excess of 216, 000, 000 extra stamina not being used. What would be really bad for game if this group got bored of the game could just spend it on smashing players as could easily gain the levels back plus with the equipment they could wear most players could not launch a reprisal when they are on the board.

In a final answer to MrSiggs. Please get your facts straight and actually read my postings for once. I did not state the rest of FS but most guilds combined members as in take the guilds under the top 20 and if they as a guild not all guilds literally put together contribute a couple k a year. If a majority of them do then I formally apologize right now. As to my rant to the team I had posted after Grims comments on this one listed above at the time they were talking about taking away guild xp for de-leveling players but were not talking about how to make a fix for the leveling players that would now need an incentive to stay and play and yes you are right I could have handled that situation a lot better but having had this situation happen once before in game lost it and again apologize. I also above agreed to the fix you suggested  if there was a fix also that would be created for levelers in return.  Literally most players being at EOC would have nothing to do that we enjoy as the issue would be we only get to gain 300 levels a year. I do like this game and as I mentioned above don't really want to spend stamina attacking other players as would need to have something to do after my one hunt, as am not going to just sit there for ten months and watch the 750k stamina go to waste that I would be able to use. So ultimately I would be left with no recourse but to use it in this manner and is not my style.

[Bildor]

 From the best I can gather the issue seems to be that some folks (not in FFS) threaten folks who clear them with 10 stams or before 0'd out on the bounty board (with what im not sure)

 

Other than that I'm hearing that 'It's not fair' that you can contribute more GXP than the total you could have if you had joined the guild at L1

I know I have politely asked people people not to clear, and have encourage some low levels to clear me. It the issue is that  some people are threatening, then deal with that on a case by case basis like HCS does with all other threats.

[Bildor]

I haven't bothered to read this thread, nor am I likely to anytime soon. I'm busy being a bounty hunter who is threatened and harassed for NOT 100 stamming these eoc players. I don't have any issue with them wanting to delevel. I've done it in the past to be able to hit a target. Let them play the game anyway they want. But I'll be damned if I'm changing my style of play to accomodate them. 

 

Hoof and Grim,  are you aware these delevelers aren't even hitting anyone to get a bounty placed on the bounty board?  They can accept as many bounties on each other as they want without ever having to swing,  and then they just place bounties on each other.  This can't be how you intend for it to be, right? They should have to clear the first bounty before accepting another on the same player.

I for one have stayed up for hours hitting MANY people to try and generate bounties (and accepted bounties).  I would not make general comments. 

[Calista]

I for one have stayed up for hours hitting MANY people to try and generate bounties (and accepted bounties).  I would not make general comments. 

 

Awww, you liked me just fine when I was posting bounties for you the other night. And that was AFTER I had cleared multiple bounties on you with 10 stam and conserve. You're right, I've cleared literally 100's of bounties in the last few days.  What do you expect when you and your friends are putting up 20+  one ticket bounties that are paying a dot each? Plus the pretty bio threats made it fun to profit. Or even better, your hissy fit and bounty stomping over 10 stam clears.  LMAO  I wouldn't be passing judgment so quickly. But then, it really doesn't matter.  I just want the cows to be aware that you aren't even hitting anyone to get on the bb. What the hell is that if not an exploit? 

Edited by Calista, 06 December 2013 - 23:25.

[kathmon]

This is analogous to the tendency of those shouting "don't tread on me" who really mean "don't tread on my right to tread all over you".

[yotwehc]

Much ado about nothing. My suggestions:
GXP "exploit" - make another top list. One with current calculation and one without.
Gold "exploit" - make champions drop less gold. Who farms champions for gold anyway?
Medal "exploit" - I love the hypocrisy. No "easy" button is acceptable. Except when it involves bunnies of course. Lol

[Brinmoth]

Hey, some of those bunnies are pretty vicious.

 

[Calista]

This is analogous to the tendency of those shouting "don't tread on me" who really mean "don't tread on my right to tread all over you".

 

I haven't done anything to 'tread' on you. I cleared bounties on the bounty board.  That is what the board is for. If you didn't want your bounties cleared, you shouldn't have paid to have them put up there. But you did, so I did what bounty hunters do. Sorry you take exception to that. But that's how it works. It's worked that way for years.

[vamunre]

GOLD gain at level 1200, is by default better because at 1800 there is less gold on creatures. Less gold coming into FS, reason against voided  I am not sure you realize this, you could just let bounties expire nothing says anybody has to clear them. As far as I can tell  (Hoofmaster wrote from thread http://forums.hunted...showtopic=60120  Having 'Attack = Bounty' in your bio isn't a threat). Maybe just my interpretation but only X guild or X player can clear me is the exact same thing along with only 100 stamina attacks or you go on bounty board.

 

I cleared a few people with only 10 stamina attacks, I got deleveled a few times.  I guess that is why you get this popup Are you sure you wish to attempt this bounty? By accepting a bounty the target will have the option to place a bounty on you. It doesn't matter  how much stamina you use to clear a bounty you still get that same popup.

Edited by vamunre, 07 December 2013 - 00:48.

[Belaric]

Just to address this issue for the people who do not have experience being deleveled. When you actual level is below a creatures level you gain less gold per level below it. So if your a few hundred levels below the creature you gain very little gold per kill (which is another reason people use sac 500) so if your next argument is an excess of gold coming in try again...

 

Thank you Leos3000 for the clarification. So I am to understand that for every level your actual level is below your VL you get less gold, even if you are hitting a monster that matches your VL? So as a for instance I am at 1823 sitting on a champ, but have delevelled to say 1540 (nice effort!), I will get very little gold, even without sacrifice active, until my level gets close again to 1823 - is that correct, and only full gold at 1823, after which it drops again as I sublevel? (assuming 1823 was EOC at that time) Is that also correct? I had supposed you would get full gold if you were lower, as my past experience of hitting mobs of higher level than me was to gain gold, and lots of extra XP, so I assumed it was the norm. I did not stop to analyse the amount of gold coming in and I do not recall getting much less in the way of gold when I was hunting the north gate dudes in Karthak for instance, but then the difference was 15 levels initially, so that would indicate that there is a fair range at which decent amounts of gold could be earned, IF sacrifice 500 is not used. The point there is that extra gold can be earned, just not as much as I had initially feared, if my new understanding is correct.

 

If someone chooses to lose huge amounts of levels then reset their character LUP's etc. they would then have to relevel in the old fashioned way - level by level, but would gain full gold for each monster, correct? Of course in my example this would mean the player would become 1540, and have to go back to that realm to hunt. that does not seem to be the preferred method currently, and does cost FSP to reset if you have not saved a free one. But you could earn that cost back in FSP depending on how far back you drop.

 

As I said ages ago, I started off not caring about this whole issue - it did not bother me, I did not feel it effected my game experience in the slightest. I'm still not fussed, but have become interested in the conversation, and hey - I've learned new things! I am not trying to construct an argument - indeed I had no argument initially - I am one of those annoying people who think by talking (in this case typing - hence the long posts yotwehc - LOL!) so as the debate has gone on, other things have occurred to me in an organic fashion. My argument is to the devs - if HCS is happy with gold levels in the game and does not see any imbalance created - that is good enough for me, ditto the situation with GXP collection.

 

I do, however,  know that players do not do things for nothing, and trends cannot be ignored - wholesale actions by many players mean there is a strong perceived benefit. It is probably happening like crazy now because of the anticipated but not yet announced double XP event offering the chance for squadillions of extra XP if you have delvelled enough and have all the right power potions lined up.

 

I am glad for the activity in game - friction means people are bumping into each other in the game - stuff is happening! I think that the OP feels this new trend is now going too far, and that others think it has been made too easy and is effecting other aspects of the game. People care enough to defend the position as is, and others have debated the effect on the BB. Talking it through and getting a better understanding of what is happening seems useful to me. Hoof and BG have noted the concerns of players. The ball is veritably in their court.

 

Is the game being harmed by this activity? By what criteria is the harm defined? Would any fix be worse than the initial problem? Those are the things I think are worth considering. HCS can look at it.

 

All of us who have played this game for many years have been through alterations to the game, "fixes" and "compromises" that did not make everyone happy. I guess it is worth thinking about whether this issue is significant enough to risk the unforeseen consequences of a fix, given the circumstances now, which, to me, are pretty benign.

 

Once we get down to guessing at the motivations for other people's actions (you just want this..., you are just after that... da de da) we are the same as people yelling at other drivers in traffic and assuming they cut us off deliberately - making stuff up to fit our preferred narrative. Some of that has crept in here. It does not help. Though it is easy to fall into - I know I have in the past.

 

I remain curious, and hopeful for a continuing healthy game. Thanks again.

Edited by Belaric, 07 December 2013 - 00:53.

[Shylark57]

Basically all this is a Null Point until the Cows get off the fence and decide one way or the other.. Some things seem to take forever until they do some thing. Others is about instant.. So not much we as players can do about it.

[Jose]

Just remember...

 

The problem is not the exp, its about exploiting the system. If they force you how you must clear the Bounty then its an abuse. How to fight that? If a players is considerable under VL then just TP him/her out from the area (it its an area from a higher lvl than the current lvl) . Now considering that everyone that is on the BB is becost he/she hit someone. But we all know thats no true. If you can accept 100 Bountys from a player means that player can counter bounty you 100 times without even a hit be made. So, wheres the pvp? If your doing pvp you should be on the BB sometimes but i cant see the pvp there. So thats why this is abusing. Its not about doing the things fair or not its just about taking advantage from something that shouldnt be so. If you accept a bounty you cant accept other untill that bounty has been finished(against same player). Thats how it should be.

[Dark Developer]

There are so many topics being covered in this thread that it gets confusing. The only thing I see being "exploited" is sitting on a champion so that after a player has deleveled they can kill the same creature over and over. I don't know if this gives more/less XP at a lower AL but I do think a player can delevel and relevel as much as they want, as long as they have to go through the realms again. The problem I seem to remember with that is subleveling gives substantially less XP so something would need to be done about that.