339 replies to this topic

[mimdala]

And to be honest I think the term "bully" is used rather loosely within FS.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

 

+ 1

 

+2

Edited by mimdala, 04 October 2014 - 21:26.

[wil72]

OK.

 

Check the alternative thread.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[yotwehc]

you forgot to add the important things:

If xp loss is so important to give victim such an awesome way to get justice, why are you pushing so hard advocating for victim. The fact that you can't see the potential for abuse with the current system is really telling. Sure people will abuse each other for gold but it's not nearly as harmful as there is a limit. You could potentially pound a player to level 1 if you wanted. Gold is only limited to what is being carried. Your either trolling at this point or you really can't see the harm and not much more I can do as this has been covered In thread after thread.

 

Not sure when you became a victim's advocate but why don't you roll with it and rob everyone in sight? As you say, there is no more penalties for you and you will get to freely attack anyone you want to for the littlest amount of gold! A HUGE victory for you! so why are you so against this?

Edited by yotwehc, 04 October 2014 - 21:50.

[apedde]

If xp loss is so important to give victim such an awesome way to get justice, why are you pushing so hard advocating for victim. The fact that you can't see the potential for abuse with the current system is really telling. Sure people will abuse each other for gold but it's not nearly as harmful as there is a limit. You could potentially pound a player to level 1 if you wanted. Gold is only limited to what is being carried. Your either trolling at this point or you really can't see the harm and not much more I can do as this has been covered In thread after thread.

are you really that blind or just ignorant to the facts, have you ever done any pvp with xp loss?

 

in your extreme example: <<<<You could potentially pound a player to level 1 if you wanted.>>>>

even with the xp loss system that is not really possible unless you are around level 1 or always wearing no gear

the attacker always loses at least DOUBLE xp more than the victim if the attacker is very lucky to get everytime, once the attacker gets to a certain level difference between him and the victim he won't be able to take any xp

the victim has on his side: 1) can win battles (attacker losing xp from defeat + losing xp from bounty) 2) DEFLECT (this buff is the worst enemy of all attackers) 3) honor (deflect and honor have very long duration) 4) xp lock 5) leveling out of the attackers range

 

I had some friends in the past who were harassed this way (during the smasher medal update) and every time HCS got involved, the attacker was warned and told to stop, once one attacker did not listen and HCS removed him

the victims were not doing any attacks or said anything to provoke these hourly attacks for days

 

so your point <<<<You could potentially pound a player to level 1 if you wanted.>>>> is impossible becuse of the reasons I mentioned and because HCS will get involved and act

 

if the same thing happened in the no xp loss system then whats the victim going to say to HCS? I am getting hourly hit by a player for no reason and he is only stealing gold

I think HCS reply would be, just hit back or no harm done to your character (xp wise) or ...

 

in both systems (in xp loss and in no xp loss) it is bullying but only in the xp loss system HCS will intervene, I highly doubt they will intervene in the no xp loss system, would make no sense because the victim does not lose any xp

[apedde]

If xp loss is so important to give victim such an awesome way to get justice, why are you pushing so hard advocating for victim. The fact that you can't see the potential for abuse with the current system is really telling. Sure people will abuse each other for gold but it's not nearly as harmful as there is a limit. You could potentially pound a player to level 1 if you wanted. Gold is only limited to what is being carried. Your either trolling at this point or you really can't see the harm and not much more I can do as this has been covered In thread after thread.

 

Not sure when you became a victim's advocate but why don't you roll with it and rob everyone in sight? As you say, there is no more penalties for you and you will get to freely attack anyone you want to for the littlest amount of gold! A HUGE victory for you! so why are you so against this?

BECAUSE THAT IS A SORT OF BULLYING, ARE YOU REALLY THAT IGNORANT

only a bully would agree to a system knowing that the victim has no way to get his attacker punished

Edited by apedde, 04 October 2014 - 22:18.

[yotwehc]

are you really that blind or just ignorant to the facts, have you ever done any pvp with xp loss?

 

in your extreme example: <<<<You could potentially pound a player to level 1 if you wanted.>>>>

even with the xp loss system that is not really possible unless you are around level 1 or always wearing no gear

the attacker always loses at least DOUBLE xp more than the victim if the attacker is very lucky to get everytime, once the attacker gets to a certain level difference between him and the victim he won't be able to take any xp

the victim has on his side: 1) can win battles (attacker losing xp from defeat + losing xp from bounty) 2) DEFLECT (this buff is the worst enemy of all attackers) 3) honor (deflect and honor have very long duration) 4) xp lock 5) leveling out of the attackers range

 

I had some friends in the past who were harassed this way (during the smasher medal update) and every time HCS got involved, the attacker was warned and told to stop, once one attacker did not listen and HCS removed him

the victims were not doing any attacks or said anything to provoke these hourly attacks for days

 

so your point <<<<You could potentially pound a player to level 1 if you wanted.>>>> is impossible becuse of the reasons I mentioned and because HCS will get involved and act

 

if the same thing happened in the no xp loss system then whats the victim going to say to HCS? I am getting hourly hit by a player for no reason and he is only stealing gold

I think HCS reply would be, just hit back or no harm done to your character (xp wise) or ...

 

in both systems (in xp loss and in no xp loss) it is bullying but only in the xp loss system HCS will intervene, I highly doubt they will intervene in the no xp loss system, would make no sense because the victim does not lose any xp

I guess I am ignorant:

the attacker always loses at least DOUBLE xp more than the victim if the attacker is very lucky to get everytime,

Always? so even if victim doesn't post the attacker, the attacker loses double? I know several victims that don't post the attacker (I even offered to pay for the tickets and the bounty but the victim refused). I would say the frequency of attacker losing 5 levels is much more infrequent then never getting posted at all.

 

So what your advocating is the current system works well because victims report to HCS and HCS takes actions... how many players bother to go that far? I would imagine many would quit before they get o that point... not a healthy way to run a game. My point still stands... if HCS doesn't step in, it could happen no?

 

The last points confuse me as your basically saying the new system helps reduce bullying so I'm not sure what your point  is.

 

Still curious, when did you become such a victim's advocate? Why aren't you embracing this change? It will allow you to steal to your hearts content with no real penalty (unless we come up with a way to make pvpxp precious). I think most victims prefer to keep their xp.

[apedde]

I guess I am ignorant:

the attacker always loses at least DOUBLE xp more than the victim if the attacker is very lucky to get everytime,

Always? so even if victim doesn't post the attacker, the attacker loses double? I know several victims that don't post the attacker (I even offered to pay for the tickets and the bounty but the victim refused). I would say the frequency of attacker losing 5 levels is much more infrequent then never getting posted at all.

 

So what your advocating is the current system works well because victims report to HCS and HCS takes actions... how many players bother to go that far? I would imagine many would quit before they get o that point... not a healthy way to run a game. My point still stands... if HCS doesn't step in, it could happen no?

 

The last points confuse me as your basically saying the new system helps reduce bullying so I'm not sure what your point  is.

 

Still curious, when did you become such a victim's advocate? Why aren't you embracing this change? It will allow you to steal to your hearts content with no real penalty (unless we come up with a way to make pvpxp precious). I think most victims prefer to keep their xp.

where did I say that the new system helps reduce bullying?

[wil72]

Could someone please "bully" me. I do so want to be "bullied". Maybe kick me in the yarbles or a suprise visit.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[yotwehc]

where did I say that the new system helps reduce bullying?

I like how you answer selectively... avoid the hard questions... 

"n both systems (in xp loss and in no xp loss) it is bullying but only in the xp loss system HCS will intervene, I highly doubt they will intervene in the no xp loss system, would make no sense because the victim does not lose any xp"

OK I thought this implied reduced bullying but if not, then this is a very strange statement.

If both are bullying, why would HCS intervene in one and not the other? You said both are bullying yet you assume HCS will only intervene in one... does it make one more of a lvl 100 bullying and the other just a small lvl 5 bullying? It makes no sense...

[uncola]

 Why aren't you embracing this change? 

 

The real question is, Why are you embracing Only the pvp xp change? Are you even interested in "BLOOD" or do you want to just hit everyone for gold and feel safe knowing you xp is safe? Blood means nothing to you just admit, you want to "bully" for gold.

 

Mary's suggestion gives people an option, that should be implemented, because It give us an OPTION. Gold stolen should only be with this RAW option along with  XP loss and the gaining of PvP prestige. "Soft" should have this BLOOD concept and rating only. With new skill tree of course and new items that have been suggested.

[apedde]

I like how you answer selectively... avoid the hard questions... 

"n both systems (in xp loss and in no xp loss) it is bullying but only in the xp loss system HCS will intervene, I highly doubt they will intervene in the no xp loss system, would make no sense because the victim does not lose any xp"

OK I thought this implied reduced bullying but if not, then this is a very strange statement.

If both are bullying, why would HCS intervene in one and not the other? You said both are bullying yet you assume HCS will only intervene in one... does it make one more of a lvl 100 bullying and the other just a small lvl 5 bullying? It makes no sense...

in both systems it is bullying BUT

in xp loss system HCS can intervene because the xp loss is damaging the victims xp, his levels, loses setups he can wear

in no xp loss system HCS will highly not intervene because there is no xp loss to the victim, his levels, loses no setups to wear

 

the fact still remains in both systems that the victim is bullied here with hourly hits !!!! only difference is the bully in the no xp loss system gets a free pass to go wild as he wants with no punishment or any interference through HCS

[yotwehc]

The real question is, Why are you embracing Only the pvp xp change? Are you even interested in "BLOOD" or do you want to just hit everyone for gold and feel safe knowing you xp is safe? Blood means nothing to you just admit, you want to "bully" for gold.

 

Mary's suggestion gives people an option, that should be implemented, because It give us an OPTION. Gold stolen should only be with this RAW option along with  XP loss and the gaining of PvP prestige. "Soft" should have this BLOOD concept and rating only. With new skill tree of course and new items that have been suggested.

No, the real question is why pvp xp loss is so important... Why are pvp'rs so suddenly and viscerally defending victims rights. I am embracing fairness. I was one of the first to point out the exploit for gold. If, as currently architected,  it will be a gold free for all... market place is gonna sky rocket. I'm definitely gonna hit for gold based on the current idea. So ideas are being thrown out in how to curtail or control it so that there is real pain if thrown on to the BB.

 

Mary's idea would work if they were completely separate.

[Pardoux]

This two-tiered approach is, let's be honest, just a way for the pvp side of the fence to make sure that they still have non-pvp'r targets available.

 

XP loss should go, PvP XP loss should be introduced and we still have just ONE PvP system

 

failing that, as I've stated before, if the two tiered approach is implemented, then each should be distinct and separate ..

Edited by Pardoux, 04 October 2014 - 22:52.

[yotwehc]

in both systems it is bullying BUT

in xp loss system HCS can intervene because the xp loss is damaging the victims xp, his levels, loses setups he can wear

in no xp loss system HCS will highly not intervene because there is no xp loss to the victim, his levels, loses no setups to wear

 

the fact still remains in both systems that the victim is bullied here with hourly hits !!!! only difference is the bully in the no xp loss system gets a free pass to go wild as he wants with no punishment or any interference through HCS

So why is that a bad thing? sounds good to me. Less tickets for HCS. And again, why are you suddenly a victim's advocate? This change is great for you! roll with it! no punishment for you! yay!

[apedde]

in both systems it is bullying BUT

in xp loss system HCS can intervene because the xp loss is damaging the victims xp, his levels, loses setups he can wear

in no xp loss system HCS will highly not intervene because there is no xp loss to the victim, his levels, loses no setups to wear

 

the fact still remains in both systems that the victim is bullied here with hourly hits !!!! only difference is the bully in the no xp loss system gets a free pass to go wild as he wants with no punishment or any interference through HCS

 

So why is that a bad thing? sounds good to me. Less tickets for HCS. And again, why are you suddenly a victim's advocate? This change is great for you! roll with it! no punishment for you! yay!

 

BECAUSE THAT IS A SORT OF BULLYING, ARE YOU REALLY THAT IGNORANT

only a bully would agree to a system knowing that the victim has no way to get his attacker punished

[yotwehc]

 

haha... so that means your against the current system too? makes no sense O_o

I am holding a million  gold - 10 of you 100 stam me... how much do you steal?

current system, same situation.. you steal same amount but how much xp do I lose? lol

no sense.. C'mon victim's advocate!

 

Then per your definition, HCS should offer xp and gold protection for a very low price and voila! zero bullying.Why aren't you proposing this since your so concerned about bullying.

[justinian9]

Okay Apedde, what change fixes the "bullying"  in May4ever's idea?

[apedde]

No, the real question is why pvp xp loss is so important...

PVP XP loss is not important but the XP loss is important, that is what we have been telling the whole time

Why are pvp'rs so suddenly and viscerally defending victims rights.

as I said before you might not have done any pvp before because then you would know that a pvper is an attacker when he attacks and is a defender (victim) when he defends an incoming attack

and why would a pvper not defend a vcitims right?

what exactly do you think a pvper is? evil, bad, bully, ...

I am embracing fairness.

someone agreeing to a system knowing that the victim has no way to get his attacker punished is embracing fairness? really????

and do not you start with fairness, you were one of the first who were against letting all the community vote for the no xp loss system, you were one of those who wanted to keep all the other players who do not visit the forum in the dark about his change, do not you dare talk about fairness

I was one of the first to point out the exploit for gold. If, as currently architected,  it will be a gold free for all... market place is gonna sky rocket. I'm definitely gonna hit for gold based on the current idea. So ideas are being thrown out in how to curtail or control it so that there is real pain if thrown on to the BB.

 

Mary's idea would work if they were completely separate.

[apedde]

yotwehs, you say you embrace fairnes, lets see:

in forum http://forums.hunted...lutions/page-16

 

Olef

Posted 28 September 2014 - 12:10

big changes like this should be voted by us FS players, usually there would be a poll in game and we would have to give our vote if we are for or against the change.

 

I find it disrespectul that this decission was taken from us and the forum posters here (about 25 different posters) had their opinions heard,

I think this game has about 500 players active now, at least that is what is showing as online players, I do not know how many players in total play, I guess maybe a bit over 1000 (I looked at top20 guilds so there may be more)

what about my vote? what about the other 975 votes? or do we not count?

 

we the 1000 FS players are the ones playing the game, we the 1000 FS players are the ones spending our $$ to play this game (I know that this game is free and that not everyone donates), we the 1000 FS players have a vote in this change and each and every vote of us 1000 FS players should be equal to the 25 forum posters!

 

even if you all 25 forum posters are for this change it should not be decided by only you, we the 1000 FS players have a vote too!

it is extremely unfair and disrespectul that at most 1/40 (25 out of 1000) of all FS players had their say on this matter, I was shocked to hear that a big decission was going on in the forum, many players like me do not even come to the forum (this is my first post here)

 

if this change got decided by only these 25 forum posters and later implemented then you disregarded the other 975 FS player votes!

 

make a game poll and let us 1000 FS players give our vote and decide, not just the 25 forum posters!

 

YOUR REPLY

yotwehc Posted 28 September 2014 - 16:52

Have you seen the results of other game polls? Only a small fraction bother to vote.

Also pvprs tend to be a very tight nit group and communicate very well. They are actually pretty over represented here in the forums.

The best thing you can do with your single voice is convince BG. Tell him why xp loss is so important. He already knows it's a great tool to punish another player and make their FS life miserable. Answer that and how to minimize bullying and your one voice can prevent this change.

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

yes, yotwehc, you are really embracing fairness lol , giving excuses so that there is no voting poll for the whole community, there are still many players, maybe hundreds who do not know about this no xp loss change and people like you are the reason why they are kept in the dark !

[Crzy]

the main point why xp loss had to be removed was because of bullying and the victims had no way to escape as long as there was xp loss, this system gives them an escape chance and solves the bullying issue

 

Didn't read the rest of the thread but this part of the OP kind of stuck me as odd...I will simply point to the PVP Protect and XP Lock upgrades to counter your statement of there being no way around bullying.

 

There's no reason to change the current system that's worked for so long just because a few don't want to pay. If we went with this idea you'd essentially be giving EVERY leveler a free Opt-Out button. Which if I recall correctly, the Devs said will NEVER happen because this was a PVP game. Levelers would all choose the Soft XP option, where they have no XP loss and the PVP XP doesn't matter to them which is the same as a free Opt-out button. There will seriously be no reason to have Protect XP in the game if this goes through.

 

If anything, PVP needs to have the ranges opened up a little more so people can hit larger ranges in this dwindling player base. Maybe a thief buff added that gives them more gold gained from the hit at the cost of lower XP Loss to the victim.