481 replies to this topic

[Pythia]

Check the second post I made, beneath that one.   Level range restrictions.   I said no PvP protection of any kind during the event.

 

But none of the player base has to take part in any GE, I don't think the PvP GE should be any different, and I don't want to be forced to take part in it because someone else thinks I should.

 

It's not really an opt out as much as it is an opt in.  I don't force anyone to level, or titan hunt, or join the arena.

 

Global Events are optional,  If  a PvP player can hit anyone they want during the event, that is forced play in the GE. That means it is no longer optional and one part of the player base makes sure other parts take part.

[yotwehc]

I've stated several times why I'm against an opt out for anything PvP related. People don't have to participate if they don't want. Just like they can ignore the other type globals or events the game offers. But they don't get to opt out completely. They just don't take part. It sets the wrong standard for how pvp should be approached. It's part of the game and needs to stop being treated like something wrong.
...

How can you not participate if you don't want to? If there is no opt out, you have no choice whether to be the 2nd P or not... :/

[Calista]

If players think the ability to travel the zones should not be wide open too, then  let it be divided up :

 

Level ?? to 1000

 

Level 1001 to EOC.

 

But I like the wide open zone travel, it presents more of a challenge, don't you know, and it's what has been asked for lots of times.

 

 

(Must proof read more )

 

I'm still not clear what you mean by 'zones'.  If split up this way, would a player be expected to search through 1000 levels of content to find the square a player is standing on,  or do you mean set pvp areas like in SS2?

 

 

 

Check the second post I made, beneath that one.   Level range restrictions.   I said no PvP protection of any kind during the event.

 

But none of the player base has to take part in any GE, I don't think the PvP GE should be any different, and I don't want to be forced to take part in it because someone else thinks I should.

 

It's not really an opt out as much as it is an opt in.  I don't force anyone to level, or titan hunt, or join the arena.

 

Global Events are optional,  If  a PvP player can hit anyone they want during the event, that is forced play in the GE. That means it is no longer optional and one part of the player base makes sure other parts take part.

 

I agreed with you on the pvp protection thing. For someone who is participating in the PvP global,  which would mean they are actively hitting targets. Someone not hitting or taking part should be allowed to keep their protection.

 

In a normal global, a player goes around and hits creatures. The creatures don't get to opt out and decide they don't want to play. In a PvP global, who is the intended target? Why would you let the intended target opt out? In regular pvp,  you always  have the risk of being hit. Why would that change for a pvp global event?

[Pythia]

I understand now.  

 

By the zone comment I mean a player goes to a world map location, picks a zone, enters and hunts for other players that might be there.  Once a player is found, the attack takes place.

 

If it 's done like other GEs all you have to do is pull up the find player/attack player and start hitting.  There are more monsters in a GE than there are players in the game so I thought to make it a little more interesting with the hide and seek feature.

 

I hope that is not shot down without giving it a chance to be tried out if Hoofs goes for something like that.

[Calista]

I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm really not understanding what you mean.  Is a zone 1 set area that a player has to be in order to take part in the Event? Or is it anywhere on the world map where a player happens to stop?

[Pythia]

Oh no. Between a level range, and the more I thought about it that makes better sense, a player could hunt every zone between the level range, irregardless of the level of the player.

 

Level range: ??? to ???

Level range: ??? to ???

 

After all, we all know that some lower level players are hell on wheels and very good at taking on higher level players and winning. The GE would have to be a bit fluid for that to work.

 

IE a game of tag, everyone in motion, hunter and prey so to speak.

[kuamor]

Oh no. Between a level range, and the more I thought about it that makes better sense, a player could hunt every zone between the level range, irregardless of the level of the player.

 

Level range: ??? to ???

Level range: ??? to ???

 

After all, we all know that some lower level players are hell on wheels and very good at taking on higher level players and winning. The GE would have to be a bit fluid for that to work.

 

IE a game of tag, everyone in motion, hunter and prey so to speak.

I apologize if I am being dense here but you use the word 'zone' like we should all understand what you mean and if I'm interpreting your post correctly, if I were to participated in a GE pvp, I would have to FIND one of the TWO players I am eligible to spank rather than use the 'fight player' key....an incredible waste of time and stam.

[KitiaraLi]

*snip* My comments below are aimed at more or less all of the above posts by Pythia

 

Firstly, I appreciate that you try to come up with some ideas for an aspect of the game where you do not have any expertise. This is (in my book) always welcome, seeing as a fresh view on things can lead to a new direction of the things that already are. I would suggest, you keep the "this is an idea and I would like feedback" approach, seeing as you are suggesting things in a sensitive aspect of the game, where as many player have very high expertise, and also emotions attached.

Aka; As much as you might like your idea, know that it will have a huge amount of flaws pointed out from those that know this aspect of the game.

 

Secondly; Explain why anyone would be interested in spending stam on running around in circles trying to find a target to hit? You might even try to explain why you'd like the "one player kills another" part of the game, to be altered into a more childish game of tag?

 

Lastly, and most importantly; This is not SigmaStorm2 and should i no way, shape or form try to mimic anything that went on in that game - ESPECIALLY not the "PvP" part.

[Pythia]

Because it's something different than being a fish in a barrel with no options but to be said fish.

 

Those that PvP need to find a middle ground if it is expected to be able to even enjoy PvP again.

 

As it is now,  all the PvP player will ever be able to expect from the leveler, arena player, titan hunter, SE hunter, etc.., is what is gripped about all the time now.

 

The PvPer gripe about the lever/other aspect player gripping about PvP.

 

I want something different if I'm to have a target on me and it's so easy to be hit.  PvP is very easy right now, not much challenge at all.

 

Come up with ideas of your own and not ones ruin game play for those playing the other aspects of the game so you can your way.

[Calista]

I'm still not clear on what a zone is in your suggestion. I don't know how to ask you any different way. Is it a specific area or is it anywhere on the world map?

You say pvpers need to agree to middle ground. Levelers need to do the same. Opting out of pvp goes against the whole way it works. You've been given multiple ways to protect your character. You just haven't been allowed a free pass. Pvp either is a part of the game or it isn't. As of now it remains therefore should apply to all in the game.

[Bluetail]

The running around and chasing part really doesnt add anything beneficial to the whole PvP concept. You imply that it will make it less comparable to "Shooting Fish In a Barrel" but if your gear and buffs are still inadequate then it makes very little difference once your are caught racing around. Even if you think this will add a benefit to PvP I dont see how it will, its just another hoop needed to jump through just to get to the core of the aspect we are competing in 'PvP'. Especially the part of the whole one target "You must hunt" thing is really ridiculous, they can be literally anywhere and just added potentially thousands of stamina and hours of time just to find them. If you want to make a competition for PvP on a global scale than all aspects of that competition should be relevant to what the contest is about which is PvP. 

 

This same system has been tried and dried by HCS in their other game Sigmastorm. Its a complete bust, I remember taking part in a 'Slaughter' or whatever its called and there was literally nobody there. Do you understand how unlikely it is that the very few people willing to take part, will be online at the same time as me and willing to chase? Plus that doesnt even address the issue of 'fair play' when I come against someone 1000 levels below me that I can pretty much sweep no problem or someone 2000 levels above me that can easily sweep me. Its fine to throw out ideas but you need to at least adress the issues that the old system had if youre gonna appoint a new one. Compared to the last global your idea uses tons of stamina, places you against people you cant fight fairly, easily allows collusion, and would be overall unappealing to the general mass of players. These are all issues that PvP seasons had, so your system doesnt improve on it. Not to mention how easily your system can be exploited, what if I do a bunch of hits on day one and then never show up on the map again? Nobody will be able to hit me and I still get to keep my points and Xp. Its just as synonymous with an opt out so a big no from me.

Edited by Achub, 07 December 2016 - 08:08.

[KitiaraLi]

*snipped* since it has been addressed by others already. Oh, and a little note; there are actually quite a few players who plays more than just one aspect of the game

 

Come up with ideas of your own and not ones ruin game play for those playing the other aspects of the game so you can your way.

The last bit is really not necessary. I have no idea what you're trying to say, or why you word it like you do. I am inclined to take it as an "attack" on my person, although I have no idea what you base it on.. what these ideas I have come up with, which are bad for others players, are... so... I can only assume, you still think your idea is the best thing since sliced bread, and doesn't like it, when I (or others) question it!?

 

As for now, I will stick with the above answer from achub, since it pretty much sums up, what my reply would be.

[BigGrim]

C'mon guys and gals. Play nice, yeah?

~ Grim

[Pythia]

Calista, maybe this will help more. 

 

Pick a world map, any world map.  I clicked on Elya Desert: There is Otha Caves and Elya Plains. Those are what I refer to as a ZONE.  Each staircase within either zone leads to another zone. I could call them levels but not all zones are done like Ramdal, with level 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

 

Common ground or not, many of the PvP hits are on offline players and it's the same with GvG.

 

To the other comments, well this may be more relative.. ne?

 

I think the general mass of players might just put up 5 days worth of PvP protection and wait out the event. 

 

You see, those that play the other aspects of the game do not need the PvP player to enjoy their game time, whereas the PvP player absolutely  Does NEED these players to play their aspect of the game.

 

Give it more thought and don't be so quick to shoot down ideas that don't suit your style of play, or try to force everyone to play your style of game.   Different can be a good thing.

[Calista]

The way you define zones is never going to work. If the first range is level 1-1000,  a level 500 player can't go to the level 999 area to get the level 999 player sitting in the level range. It wouldn't make sense to open the maps up to let a level 500 player into the level 999 area because they would just sit there to level up faster.

 

The stam alone to find a single player in 1000 levels of content is ridiculous. Throw in the opt out your idea suggests and you have to chase 1 of maybe 3 targets all over the game?

 

Player vs Player.  That is what PvP stands for. The very nature of how it works requires players. There is no way around that fact. Giving players an opt out, or letting them hide from pvp in the game, makes no sense. Either this is a pvp game and people need to adjust for it,  or it is not a pvp game so people don't have to deal with it. But trying to make it both ways isn't working. Never has.

 

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm shooting down your idea. It's pretty much a given you and I are never going to agree on how things should run in the game. Which is totally fine, given it does take different kinds to keep things running. I've tried to make sense of what you were suggesting and tried asking questions to clarify what you mean. The more it is explained the more issues I see. This idea is way too similar to what was done in SS2. It didn't work there, so not sure why we would want to try it here.

[Pythia]

I do not know how the level ranges would be set up, but my suggestion states that all players within that level range could move freely within the level range no matter what their personal level is.

 

All the suggestions I made are clearly stated in the first two posts I made.  I kept the general layout open for easy changes in fine tuning the event.

 

Those fine tuning aspects would come from mostly PvP players and others  that take part in it, with Hoof having the final say.

 

As it has been stated in the past, nothing should be to easy. I agree with that. 

 

Easy applies to all facets of the game, challenge is found by the player in how they play the area they enjoy. I only held out an idea for consideration, it will be trashed or not as others see fit.

 

Good luck.  I'm out of this now, I'll just follow what others have to say. 

 

Oh goodness, I'm sorry about the miss step there Calista. Only the top part of that post was ment for you. Just the clarification of information.... I hope...

 

The rest was information for other posters.      I will follow and read now, it's all in the PvP court of play now. Good luck.

Edited by Pythia, 07 December 2016 - 20:06.

[Calista]

Even if you broke the level ranges into smaller groups, even as drastically as 1-250  being the first range, that is still 250 levels of content your suggestion requires players to search through. And how many people would be in a group that small if they have to opt in as well? I'm not trying to be difficult. This just won't work. No one would agree to do this.

 

Allowing players to move freely through level ranges would cause issues in other areas of the game. Titan hunters have to be a certain level to get to certain titans. Players would opt in just to get to the highest level possible to sit and level. It would completely disrupt the game as a whole if HCS tried to reset where players were when the GE ended. Can you imagine the uproar when champion sitting eoc players get kicked out of the place their champ was sitting? Players sitting on relics being kicked from where the relic is at? 

 

I'm sorry you feel your idea is being 'trashed'.  Ideas are always welcome. You said yourself the fine tuning aspects would have to be gone over. That's all we're trying to do. Pointing out where the issue would be if something like this were ever considered. I don't believe Hoof would consider the idea at this point.

 

 

 

TL:DR how much more can be taken away from PvP before it's totally eradicated from the face of this game. I don't generally participate... Because of this i don't believe it should cease to exist nor do i believe i should be able to hide behind a door from it. It's part of the game just like anything else. If you want to pay money to hide from it be my guest... AKA pvp protection otherwise your fair game.

 

I didn't see this post until today.  +500

[KitiaraLi]

Common ground or not, many of the PvP hits are on offline players and it's the same with GvG.

Yes? Players can only play when they're online, and shouldn't be required to adjust their activity to when others are online. It has been stated in so many threads, by some many players, and current/former staff members by now, that there are plenty of ways to minimize the risk of getting hit while you're offline.

 

I think the general mass of players might just put up 5 days worth of PvP protection and wait out the event. 

There we go; One of the ways to try and minimize the risk.

 

You see, those that play the other aspects of the game do not need the PvP player to enjoy their game time, whereas the PvP player absolutely  Does NEED these players to play their aspect of the game.

Actually, that is not entirely correct. PvPers does LIKE to have levelers around for the gold hits, but tbh they do not need 'em. They'd be just as happy to hit each other. Some have even pushed for the ability to hit their own guild members over the years.. some still do. What you maybe do not understand is the fact, that most PvPers do it because they find it fun. Not to cause harm to anyone - nomatter what the propaganda says.

 

Give it more thought and don't be so quick to shoot down ideas that don't suit your style of play, or try to force everyone to play your style of game.   Different can be a good thing.

Yes, different opinions can evolve new things, but again you go with the "force your style" comments? PvP is a part of the game, and performed via the build in game mechanics,  so if it is any-ones style of play, that would be HCS.

Besides that, I think Cali is doing a perfectly fine job in pointing out what parts in your suggestion, would never work - and why it will not work... and if I have to shine my own light, I actually think I have tried to help you towards not being so protective of your idea, and trying to listen instead of just jumping into the defensive stance.

[Bluetail]

Tbh, this entire thread does not make much sense anyways, 'PvP as a Global'. Its pretty clear that the vast majority of players are not interested in PvP or want nothing to do with it. So why do people feel the need to turn it into a Global Event? If most people opt out and buy protection, then what good does it make? The whole point of a Global Event is that the majority of the community participate, its in the name- I really see no merit here. If you turn it into an event how many will participate, probably just the few that are currently playing the ladder and a few more- so why implement something new for the same people to do the same thing? You already have a venue to PvP, so use it! The only way PvP as a Global would ever work is if PvP got a massive overhaul, but that would destroy one of the most ancient aspects of the game that has been around since the beginning.

 

This thread really just started as an easy way for EoC players to get their hands on Crystal chests with no Xp loss. If you want those chests, then opt in the ladder and win them. If you could win those chests with no Xp loss, then the ladder which is already dying loses its appeal. I really dont know why this thread was revived in the first place. HCS should be spending their time to develop new ideas instead of trying to bring back failed old ones.

Edited by Achub, 08 December 2016 - 19:45.

[Egami]

So everybody is going to have to forgive me (or not) but I started skimming after last read from page 4 to page 6, more or less.

 

We could probably run a beta of it within the real game - we'd just need to ensure that it didn't use stamina / damage items / give rewards during the beta. I think that would allow more people to try it out as well and we could figure out what works / doesn't and get good feedback on it?

 

I think this is a novel and interesting idea. I'm not sure how well it would function, but I see a huge positive as it would (or I think) get people to get a taste at least. Ie, avoid the "PvP, oh no, that's the worst thing in the world" scenario.