26 replies to this topic

[iceman66]

I was told to make a new thread outlining how I think hellforging should be changed.  If you haven't read the post, basically hellforging and the cost is outdated.  It's needs a revamp.  I was just throwing out ideas because I'm no good at formulas, so this thread can contain all those changes people wanna see.

 

Basically I think the cost should be changed and that the stat change should be based on a percent.  For example the first forge would give a 2% stat bonus and/or set bonus.  And each hellforge after that should give another 2% up to a maximum of 10%.  I'll leave the formula people to this.  But just understand that as it stands now, to forge a level 1775 item (including the gold cost of fsp) is over 10,000,000 gold.

 

Please try and keep this thread on topic as Hoof will be reading it and taking ideas from it.

[Pardoux]

Cost and/or bonuses should be changed, yes... 

 

I long ago stopped hell-forging because the gain vs cost just wasn't worth it. Make it worthwhile again and there's a big gold sink for the taking ...

[iceman66]

Cost and/or bonuses should be changed, yes... 

 

I long ago stopped hell-forging because the gain vs cost just wasn't worth it. Make it worthwhile again and there's a big gold sink for the taking ...

 

Aye, although there are plenty of other gold sinks.  I was just thinking practicality.  Hellforging was cool pre-500 then just got stupid.

[Pardoux]

Aye, although there are plenty of other gold sinks.  I was just thinking practicality.  Hellforging was cool pre-500 then just got stupid.

 

Agreed ... just thinking it's a win / win

[Davros81]

Some change is needed as I have seen no beneficial value, even with Epic Forge, of forging my gear since about level 1100, and that was only to assist me in the arena, the nightmares still haunt me to this day!!

 

I think a percentage ration increase per hell forge addition would be best, say 2% per forge added so a maximum of 10%, I might deem the costs remotely worthwhile then.

[watagashi]

I am under 500 but I see what people are saying,, as much as I hate to say this if you are going to add cost based on level then it should also add stats on the curve. 

Its a big reason I sandbag at 350,, cost of gear to use of it and stats it gives

[evilbry]

I Personally think 1% per forge to a total of 5% should be the cap. HCS can then apply the upgrade from around level 800 where stats get less than a 1% increase per forge and have that formula from that level up (retaining existing formula/bonuses for levels below that).

 

Is 10% going to be too overpowered? Where would the 10% begin to be applied from? I guess that is what it comes down to.

[Removed4427]

be careful what you wish for

 

management may simply start lowering the over all basic stats on gear...so that gear is useless UNLESS you fully hellforge

[Maury Bund]

Looking at a few items, I think we are already getting a 5-6% increase on fully forged LE and Crystal items. I would suspect that Rare and Unique items get a slightly higher increase and true SE sets (where stats really come from the set bonus) get a HUGE increase to stats per item. I don't believe that putting a fixed % increase per forge is the way this issue need to be looked at. The disparity comes from the cost vs the increase of stats and the almost nil ability to recoup the amount spent when one is done with the item. I think it would be better to look at somehow decreasing the cost to forge, instead of adding more stats overall. I know that it is a gold sink, but if no one can really afford to Hellforge, how is the gold getting sunk?

[rowbeth]

I Personally think 1% per forge to a total of 5% should be the cap. HCS can then apply the upgrade from around level 800 where stats get less than a 1% increase per forge and have that formula from that level up (retaining existing formula/bonuses for levels below that).

 

Is 10% going to be too overpowered? Where would the 10% begin to be applied from? I guess that is what it comes down to.

 

Actually, if you base it on LE equipment, not including the set bonuses, then at level 850 FFing adds about 7.5% (so, about 1.5% per forge). For lower level items, or for more common items (unique etc.) the FFing adds even more to it.

 

Personally, not long after level 850 was where I stopped forging.

 

Anything below level 450 gets 10+% bonus. I'm not sure we considered that overpowered when we were at that level.

 

Just did a quick calculation: adding 10% to all my equipment in my hunting set would add just under 4% to my damage, and just under 5% to my other stats. That really doesn't sound overpowered to me, and is certainly a lot less than you get from relics, SH, DD, CordA ...

 

(n.b. just realised I did not include forge-bonus skill in those 4/5% figures. I've always considered it irrelevant, though it would cease to be irrelevant if the hell forging bonus became worthwhile again)

[gilby90813]

idk if thi would be the bet idea for forging but just a suggestion can u guys cap the cost after a certain level

[Leos3000]

I have not forged an Item in a few hundred levels because it is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE and unpractical. I will give some simple numbers and suggestions based on Constants.

 

2 things are needed to get more people spending gold on Forging a Constant gain percentage and a Constant Cost

 

Forging:

 

1st

Gain 1%

Cost 100k Gold + 2 fsp

 

2nd

Gain 1% (2% total)

Cost 200k Gold + 2 fsp

 

3rd

Gain 1% (3% total)

Cost 300k Gold + 2 fsp

 

4th

Gain 1% (4% total)

Cost 400k Gold + 2 fsp

 

5th

Gain 4% (8% total)

Cost 800k Gold + 2 fsp

 

So a FFed item would

 

Cost: 1.8 million Gold + 10 FSP

Bonus: 8%

 

I would start this around level 800 and have it apply to the rest of the levels.

 

*The idea of the 5th forging doubling the gain is based on the current gains from Forging where the 5th forge gives double the bouns of the 1st 4 forgings, this also gives people more incentive to fully forge an item and not stop at 3 or 4.

[gomezkilla]

Why not just reduce the multiplier for each level to reduce the cost? I believe it should be relevant to the amount of gold you earn per hit at your level/level-range... not a fixed rate after 'X' level.

[Leos3000]

Why not just reduce the multiplier for each level to reduce the cost? I believe it should be relevant to the amount of gold you earn per hit at your level/level-range... not a fixed rate after 'X' level.

Because from level 310-1600 you get 310 gold per stam used (a constant) then after 1601 it went down to around 250 gold per kill and at 1626 went down again to 200 per...

[Pardoux]

Because from level 310-1600 you get 310 gold per stam used (a constant) then after 1601 it went down to around 250 gold per kill and at 1626 went down again to 200 per...

 

Hmm, I knew the gold / kill had decreased, but a 35.5% reduction is quite, shall we say, dramatic.

 

BG ? - I know you say you've not consciously changed this, but something has, so could you take a look again please ?

Edited by Pardoux, 07 October 2013 - 02:20.

[rowbeth]

Because from level 310-1600 you get 310 gold per stam used (a constant) then after 1601 it went down to around 250 gold per kill and at 1626 went down again to 200 per...

 

Actually (according to the FSG) from level 330 to 1600 you average 300 gold, not 310. The gold per kill kept increasing up to level 330 (even above 330 average gold per kill in the 320s)

 

Not that these numbers make much difference to your point

[Gutie]

be careful what you wish for

 

management may simply start lowering the over all basic stats on gear...so that gear is useless UNLESS you fully hellforge

 

That's patially what I'm thinking might occurr. Along with a drop in set bonuses a tad possibly to go with the change in hellforge bonus... though that would only encourage FURTHER gold sink.

 

However, the cost in gear that is hellforged may or may not spike, I'm inclined to think with the likely changes to compensate that cost of gear will spike for those that are forged up, and those who bought gear that wasn't forged my get hosed a bit with weaker stats as a result.

 

If stats of current gear doesn't change at this stage I think this can be good. As the original stat boost was supposed to be a notable bump anyhow, changing to percentages doesn't change the intent of what kind of stat increases were desired in the first place when hellforging was designed with those lump sum forge enhancements.

 

Though I'd highly reccommend the changes only effect Attack, Defense, Armor, Damage and HP. Other effect changes might upset a lot of people who use items (not necessarily even epics) to boost other things like max stamina.

[SgtWolf]

Here is my 2 Cents:

 

1) Stats: (+5 to stat points, +2% to enhancements) I think they are good numbers to work with.  I wouldn't change them. Plus to be fair, all Stats on current Equipment should be reset, too.  Otherwise, any equipment that is still around will have 2 different set of stats & this could really mess up the game.

 

2) Cost: (1-5 FSP + ??? Gold, per level), Now this is really Hellforging needs to be upgraded.  Lets get a nice formula that works for all levels, something like ((Equipment Level)*100)*(Hellforging Level).  So forging at Level 5 would cost:

Level 1 Item: = (1* 100) * 5 = 500 Gold

Level 1,700 Item = (1700 * 100)* 5 = 850000 Gold

 

As for Hellforging myself, I've rarely done it for years because of the cost.  I normally find better deals on the AH VS that cost of Hellforging that Item, plus I have my orginal item to sell, still.

[Hoofmaster]

Since this is next up on the roadmap, I've looked through what's been said and think the following would work:

 

Level 1: +5 / +1% (whichever is higher) to all stat points, +2% to enhancements.

Level 2: +10 / +2% (whichever is higher) to all stat points, +4% to enhancements.

Level 3: +15 / +3% (whichever is higher) to all stat points, +6% to enhancements.

Level 4: +25 / +5% (whichever is higher) to all stat points, +8% to enhancements.

Level 5: +50 / +10% (whichever is higher) to all stat points, +10% to enhancements.

 

What do you think?

[Maehdros]

Since this is next up on the roadmap, I've looked through what's been said and think the following would work:

 

Level 1: +5 / +1% (whichever is higher) to all stat points, +2% to enhancements.

Level 2: +10 / +2% (whichever is higher) to all stat points, +4% to enhancements.

Level 3: +15 / +3% (whichever is higher) to all stat points, +6% to enhancements.

Level 4: +25 / +5% (whichever is higher) to all stat points, +8% to enhancements.

Level 5: +50 / +10% (whichever is higher) to all stat points, +10% to enhancements.

 

What do you think?

Sounds great