Jump to content

Photo

Open Letter: More Omacaz Pots was a BAD Idea


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 aa0007

aa0007

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,379 posts
  • United States of America

Posted 11 May 2013 - 07:03

*Note: When referring to omacaz pots, I'm referring solely to the Sinuous Spirit of Omacaz found in the Deathly Chest of Omacaz.

 

This is an open letter to HCS.

 

Hi guys.

 

I've played this game for over 5 years, and I know (better than most), that when you do things for the game, you do them with the game's future in mind. While I have offered some criticism at times, I tend to make that criticism constructive, and do it with the knowledge that you will do what is best for the game because it is your (metaphorical) child. That is what I will try and do here.

 

As you may know, I've been here a while, and I've been merchanting for nearly as long as I've been playing. To say the least, that's given me a sense of how the FS economy works, and it's given me a pretty accurate ability to guess the future of the FS economy. Now, I wasn't here when the first round of omacaz pots were released, but I sure was here to see the aftermath. I think you and I both know pretty well that the price of epics fell DRAMATICALLY after the omacaz pots were released. As a point of reference ... the dragon draped sabatons that used to go for over a thousand FSP are now down to 600 FSP at times, while other times they're cruising at 800. That is largely due to the fact that people can invent 2 or 3 (I even know someone who got 5 from a single armor) with the omacaz pots, and excess supply with low demand means that prices plummet.

 

However, the sabatons aren't the only things that have fallen. After the first round of omacaz pots were released, the price of Fang(s) of Meng Zhang, Bottle(s) of Gorgon Tears, and Bobanarts(') Crystal Skull fell quite a bit. This was because people were not only saving ridiculous amounts of these items, but also because so many people were inventing the epics the market became severely flooded, which drove the price a good bit lower than it is now, if I'm not mistaken. If I have my chronology correct the newest set of RP epics came out after this, but they never managed to make it to the legendary prices that the first set of RP epics did, largely due to the omacaz pot that can allow people to essentially mass produce the epics.

 

Now, you may be wondering why it is bad that these epic prices are down. I mean, cheaper epics means that more people can afford them, right? While that may be true, there are much greater consequences of this action. People always talk about new player retention; one of the best solutions (in my mind) was the RP items which allowed low levels to gain a decent foothold in the game. With the removal of plant farming as a viable source of cash (after resource finder was introduced), GvG is essentially the only way a free low level player can make any decent amount of FSP. As the price of the RP items drops from the godly 2k per Fang of Meng Zhang that it was originally, payments for GvGs become lower and lower. Combined with the cost of starting a conflict, a couple inevitable losses and the taxes/fees that most RP farming guild's leaders collect which are all constant, the price decline comes straight out of the payment that goes to the GvGers. Since the cost of upgrades doesn't scale with the price of the RP items, it means that less upgrades can be afforded over time, which ultimately would lead to less players in the game (as far as I can tell).

 

Additionally, by devaluing epics with the omacaz pots, people will be less inclined to purchase FSP. I'm not sure what your finances say about this matter, but my guess would be as stated. See, when the price of epics drops, it means a couple different things. First, it means that players need to spend less to purchase the same epic. So, assuming 10 players were looking to purchase Ridged Legion Breastplates, which sell at roughly 1000 FSP each (down from the 1.5 - 1.6k prior to the release of Omacaz pots), you've just lost out on 5000 - 6000 FSP being purchased. To offset that, there would need to be a 150% increase in the amount of players purchasing FSP which I can only guess hasn't happened.

 

Furthermore, cheaper epics devalues stamina gain. With the release of the +3 and +4 stam gain invented epics, it is possible to gain up to ~30 extra stamina gain per hour at the higher levels across all 9 slots, at a price that would previously have only bought ~10-15 stam gain in epics. Assuming they're worn 9% of the time during the year, that's an additional roughly 80000 to 120000 stamina that players are getting for no added cost. That translates to less money for you, HCS.

 

Also, when epics are cheaper, players with large sums of FSP can control more and more epics. When there are only a few epics for sale on the AH, that means that those players with large banks can manipulate the economy to a much larger extent. When the epics cost much more than they do now, people could afford to purchase significantly less epics at a time (in terms of merchanting). Speaking from experience, I could previously only afford 1 high tier Epic at a time, if I was lucky to get a great deal. Now I can afford significantly more than that; generally 2-3 at any time, and that's just from pocket change. The point is, when you make epics cheaper, you put a lot more power in the hands of merchants who gain the invaluable ability to basically dominate and corner the market. Of course, I haven't seen many examples of this being abused in game, but it is a possibility that needs to be considered.

 

Now, I realize this might come across as a little angry, or maybe even condescending and outright rude. While I do not mean to be rude, I am a bit angry that the mistakes of the past are being repeated as you read this. Ideally, you'll rollback the game to before the donation offer, and refund everyone their cash. While I know this is basically not going to happen, what I do realistically hope for is that you NEVER release the omacaz pot again ... for everyone's sake. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way, and so this letter isn't just from me; it's from everyone.

 

Thank you,

A concerned FS player



#2 rhann123

rhann123

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,022 posts
  • United States of America

Posted 11 May 2013 - 07:19

No the tears, bobby skulls, and fang all dropped in price because the price of just buying the Epic was cheaper than buying the components to make it. Which is still actually the case with a lot of the new GvG epics and even the older ones.That part of the "economy" has always been screwed up like that. 



#3 shindrak

shindrak

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,964 posts

Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:14

Game killer potion.

Inventor 2 shouldn't work on inventing epics ... its funny when someone could make 10 epics from 1 pack of components

Some players bought epics for 2-3k fsps now they dropped to 1k fsps and not even sell as quick as before.

#4 Pardoux

Pardoux

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,130 posts
  • Australia

Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:14

I have NO problem with these potions being in the game whatsoever. Yes, prices of epics have fallen dramatically and, whilst you see this a BAD thing, I see it as a GOOD thing.

 

To quote your example of Ridged Legion Breastplates - whilst there may have been 10 (for example) waiting to buy them at 1K each, there may only have been 2 or 3 waiting to buy them at 1500-2000 each. To that end, the latter situation is BETTER for the cows (if you base the purchases purely on donations of course), not worse. 10K worth of FSP bought across 10 players is better for the cows than 6K purchased across 3 players after all.

 

Your sign-off is, I have to say, quite presumptious too ... "a concerned FS community" ?? - I'm pretty sure you don't speak for everyone and, in fact, I'd probably hazard a guess that you speak for the minority of players ... 

 

After all, most players who are BUYING these items like the lower prices ... it's only those SELLING them (the merchants) that like the higher prices :)


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#5 evilbry

evilbry

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,172 posts
  • New Zealand

Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:39

I have NO problem with these potions being in the game whatsoever. Yes, prices of epics have fallen dramatically and, whilst you see this a BAD thing, I see it as a GOOD thing.

 

To quote your example of Ridged Legion Breastplates - whilst there may have been 10 (for example) waiting to buy them at 1K each, there may only have been 2 or 3 waiting to buy them at 1500-2000 each. To that end, the latter situation is BETTER for the cows (if you base the purchases purely on donations of course), not worse. 10K worth of FSP bought across 10 players is better for the cows than 6K purchased across 3 players after all.

 

Your sign-off is, I have to say, quite presumptious too ... "a concerned FS community" ?? - I'm pretty sure you don't speak for everyone and, in fact, I'd probably hazard a guess that you speak for the minority of players ... 

 

After all, most players who are BUYING these items like the lower prices ... it's only those SELLING them (the merchants) that like the higher prices :)

+1

 

I could see people donating to buy a couple of epics for a couple hundred each rather than holding on epics listed for a few thousand.



#6 gomezkilla

gomezkilla

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,303 posts

Posted 11 May 2013 - 20:13

The low levels still make some FSP from being paid to GvG, sure, not as much as before, but they are still making some.

 

The prices for all Epics has not dropped due to just the Omacaz chests, there are other factors that go into it, for example: The 15 new Titans that came out in the winter dropped the prices of most of them. The Omacaz chest does have Inventor ll level 500, but that only gives a higher chance to keep the components. The prices dropped when Inventor ll first came out.



#7 watagashi

watagashi

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,977 posts

Posted 11 May 2013 - 21:15

For $60 I would hope you get lots of epics out of the buffs,, what they need is another round of RP epics to use the RP on now that the old sets are in good supply



#8 Removed8950

Removed8950

    Member

  • New Members
  • PipPip
  • 183 posts

Posted 12 May 2013 - 00:52

I have NO problem with these potions being in the game whatsoever. Yes, prices of epics have fallen dramatically and, whilst you see this a BAD thing, I see it as a GOOD thing.

 

To quote your example of Ridged Legion Breastplates - whilst there may have been 10 (for example) waiting to buy them at 1K each, there may only have been 2 or 3 waiting to buy them at 1500-2000 each. To that end, the latter situation is BETTER for the cows (if you base the purchases purely on donations of course), not worse. 10K worth of FSP bought across 10 players is better for the cows than 6K purchased across 3 players after all.

 

Your sign-off is, I have to say, quite presumptious too ... "a concerned FS community" ?? - I'm pretty sure you don't speak for everyone and, in fact, I'd probably hazard a guess that you speak for the minority of players ... 

 

After all, most players who are BUYING these items like the lower prices ... it's only those SELLING them (the merchants) that like the higher prices :)

+2

 

While it is absolutely soul crushing to hear that a few Merchants won't be able to achive the 300% profit they seem to strive so hard for. ( Just a moment while I dry my eyes from the emotional distress)

 

One could argue that (based on assumptions and one sided arithmatic) that the promotion of Epic pots in the donation of FSP could more than compenstae for the "presumed" lack of donations in order to aquire Epic pieces.

 

Now, don't take this as a personal attack on merchants, or any one player in particular..

 

And of course the above mentioned is MY OWN presumption and one sided arithmatic...


Removing the ability to Bounty a PvP Ladder attack is something I've been thinking about. If enough people want it, I don't see why not. It might be a relatively easy tweak, unlike the rest of the suggestions.


#9 Booger

Booger

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 243 posts

Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:06

+1

 

I could see people donating to buy a couple of epics for a couple hundred each rather than holding on epics listed for a few thousand.

I agree, and I don't think epics should cost a few thousand fsp anyway, you'd probably get more value out of spending it on powerlevelling during an XP event than paying that crazy price. But the pots probably should have had a lower level of the buffs, level 500 (+ distil) seems a bit overpowered given the nature of Inventor 2.



#10 gomezkilla

gomezkilla

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,303 posts

Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:28

But the pots probably should have had a lower level of the buffs, level 500 (+ distil) seems a bit overpowered given the nature of Inventor 2.

The buffs from the Epic potion are supposed to be Epic.. how low were you thinking the buffs should be? 



#11 Booger

Booger

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 243 posts

Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:50

The buffs from the Epic potion are supposed to be Epic.. how low were you thinking the buffs should be? 

It's hard to put an exact figure on it given that the multiplier on Inventor 2 doesn't seem to have been made public, but when people are making up to 5 copies of epics from one set of very expensive ingredients, it seems a bit unbalanced, imagine what they could do with 5 or 10 sets of ingredients.

It's merely an observation though, I'm quite happy for epics to be cheaper but I can see how some people are pretty annoyed.



#12 gomezkilla

gomezkilla

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,303 posts

Posted 12 May 2013 - 13:18

An example for the buff levels, the Cut Ruby Box:

Epic levels: all 500

Legendary levels: all 400

 

If it was lowered, then it would be considered a legendary box. That's just my opinion on the matter.



#13 Doctective

Doctective

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:05

Some players bought epics for 2-3k fsps now they dropped to 1k fsps and not even sell as quick as before.

 

1k is an absurd amount for an item to begin with.



#14 Gutie

Gutie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 475 posts
  • Badge

Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:10

*Note: When referring to omacaz pots, I'm referring solely to the Sinuous Spirit of Omacaz found in the Deathly Chest of Omacaz.

 

This is an open letter to HCS.

 

Hi guys.

 

I've played this game for over 5 years, and I know (better than most), that when you do things for the game, you do them with the game's future in mind. While I have offered some criticism at times, I tend to make that criticism constructive, and do it with the knowledge that you will do what is best for the game because it is your (metaphorical) child. That is what I will try and do here.


Now, I realize this might come across as a little angry, or maybe even condescending and outright rude. While I do not mean to be rude, I am a bit angry that the mistakes of the past are being repeated as you read this. Ideally, you'll rollback the game to before the donation offer, and refund everyone their cash. While I know this is basically not going to happen, what I do realistically hope for is that you NEVER release the omacaz pot again ... for everyone's sake. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way, and so this letter isn't just from me; it's from everyone.

 

Thank you,

A concerned FS community

 

 

I have NO problem with these potions being in the game whatsoever. Yes, prices of epics have fallen dramatically and, whilst you see this a BAD thing, I see it as a GOOD thing.

 

To quote your example of Ridged Legion Breastplates - whilst there may have been 10 (for example) waiting to buy them at 1K each, there may only have been 2 or 3 waiting to buy them at 1500-2000 each. To that end, the latter situation is BETTER for the cows (if you base the purchases purely on donations of course), not worse. 10K worth of FSP bought across 10 players is better for the cows than 6K purchased across 3 players after all.

 

Your sign-off is, I have to say, quite presumptious too ... "a concerned FS community" ?? - I'm pretty sure you don't speak for everyone and, in fact, I'd probably hazard a guess that you speak for the minority of players ... 

 

After all, most players who are BUYING these items like the lower prices ... it's only those SELLING them (the merchants) that like the higher prices :)

 

If I know my money will go farther via cheaper Epics invented gear and the like, I'm MORE willing to donate than not. I'm at the point of thinking of going AWOL on FS at times because of merchants colluding and buying up epic chests and certain other items to inflate or retain inflated prices (Thornvine anyone????)

 

Your very argument about lowering of  RP item's prices hurting new players...what do you think you crying about epics being to cheap means? Hypocrisy at it's most extreme I've seen on FS... mind you I've rarely been on the forums so I'm probably full of nonsense on that crude jab.

 

Having cheaper (Inventable) Epics is good for the game in terms of lower level players having access to them, particularly BECAUSE of RP prices being lower... In regards to Titan Epics is another issue altogather, and unrelated to the post so I'll move on...

 

Inventable gear is almost entirely created via merchants and EOC players... no sympathies from me whatsoever. I wish the Invent 1&2 was a loyalty potion in my opinion, as the very concept that older players set up with 5-digit+ FSP at any given time to buy up or price-set the "market" is the polar opposite of a "free market" I'm constantly being told FS is supposed to model... (where is the price wars to undercut other merchants???) 

 

To be direct I see an system where a few players price-set and other's whom are honest brokers amongst FS merchants merely follow suit once their goods sell...

 

But, when cows do something that pokes a few holes in the screen, you cry because we pests might make our way into the marketplace we are screened out of... I laugh at anyone who claims the FS market is "free-market" when supplies of an item doubles/triples and prices RISE anyways... tell me how we should be symapthetic to the "community" you represent at all... I am curious why I need care.

 

In short... cheaper epics = FSP is worth MORE as it can BUY MORE. We have a bubble on prices of an array of items. If FS is anything like the "free market" after the one's with liquidity and FSP on hand start to yeild from buying each other's overpriced goods, we'll see it pop. I will laugh.

 

 

I, myself... HOPE that a cap on ON HAND FSP is put in place... to prevent one or two players buying up the market to price set...that and I'd like to see a bit more MP activity and gold hits from those trying to do that legit... :D

 

 

As for Paradoux's point I emphatically agree.

 

A FS donor... just speaking for myself...


GutieGGtsig_zps678d4c8f.png

 

 

Are you active? Enjoy playing FS for fun and striving for lofty goals? Looking to join a guild that invests in itself and seeks to improve and grow in all aspects of the game?

 

Secret Alliance can be your home in FS! We are looking for active, motivated and driven players who have a passion and genuine enjoyment of FS to join us as we continue to rise towards the TOP! If interested feel free to send me a PM.

 

SA is also looking for one or two guild mergers INTO SA. Feel free to ask for details.


#15 Pardoux

Pardoux

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,130 posts
  • Australia

Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:20

 

As for Paradoux's point I emphatically agree.

 

 

 

One day, someone will get my name right LOL :)


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#16 Gutie

Gutie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 475 posts
  • Badge

Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:33

One day, someone will get my name right LOL :)

My bad. Shall I call you PD? :P But yeah, i don't get why when there's still a nice profit margin this is so terrible... Still a net gain, still potnetial for solid profits on all sides. Components and recipe parts will get bought up anyhow. Imo that helps Arena players nicely to a degree as they can take another stab at making arena gear on the fly as well because everyone wnats to sell their crap parts for inventing recipes, lol.


GutieGGtsig_zps678d4c8f.png

 

 

Are you active? Enjoy playing FS for fun and striving for lofty goals? Looking to join a guild that invests in itself and seeks to improve and grow in all aspects of the game?

 

Secret Alliance can be your home in FS! We are looking for active, motivated and driven players who have a passion and genuine enjoyment of FS to join us as we continue to rise towards the TOP! If interested feel free to send me a PM.

 

SA is also looking for one or two guild mergers INTO SA. Feel free to ask for details.


#17 batboy135

batboy135

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts

Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:52

There are pros and cons to omacaz

 

The positive thing is that a lot of the components used to invent has gone up. Things like RP items.  Gorgons went for around 250 just a week ago and now are back up at 300 at least.  Destroyer potions are another example and much more. Also things get a little cheaper so everyone can buy them. Jabberwocks set for example use to cost over 500 FSP AT LEAST but has gone down to an affordable price for players. Wasting over 60$ worth of fsp on one set isn't exactly worth it to me unless your stinking rich which most of us are not

 

Cons: Yes a lot of stuff has been reduced and cut down by a lot. And  yes some items are overflowing

 

 

 

And also anything that can be continued to be  farmed throughout the year is bound to get cheaper anyway

 

Just my 2 cents into this topic



#18 shindrak

shindrak

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,964 posts

Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:49

1k is an absurd amount for an item to begin with.

Yea my point is lets hope the players who buy their own epics for 1k fsps don't get screwed next day and find their epics going for 250 fsp



#19 gomezkilla

gomezkilla

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,303 posts

Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:52

Yea my point is lets hope the players who buy their own epics for 1k fsps don't get screwed next day and find their epics going for 250 fsp

I know all too well about that.. damn Gnarled Scarab getting a price cut the next day of 50% after I bought it for 1k.



#20 grimnok

grimnok

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 917 posts

Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:11

More than the obvious effect of plummeting Epic prices, which is not objectively good or bad, but rather a matter of opinion.  It creates a 'jackpot' effect.  In a very real sense, it is high stakes gambling (for FS anyway).  You are risking far more than the FSP lottery that was removed long ago.  With, say 2 sets of ingredients for any given epic, you could end up with 2 epics, or 8.

 

Omacaz is a relatively expensive lottery ticket.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Font:
Arial | Calibri | Lucida Console | Verdana
 
Font Size:
9px | 10px | 11px | 12px | 10pt | 12pt
 
Color: