225 replies to this topic

[Berryann]

I know you have been fiddling with the drop rates - I've been hunting the level 300 elite to make a set for a faction mate. Drop rate seems to be around 30 - 33%. I can live with that. But as others have said, the extractions are more of a problem... he needs one more extraction and, of course, got everything but the one he needs :/ So back I go to hunt some more.

[ecolitan]

I said this in another thread (Sailor's thread on credits) but I'll put it here.

Our faction barely builds any sets anymore. The combination of rapidly delivered content and the amount of energy needed to make sets makes it undesirable unless totally necessary. This has lots of ramifications from artwork never enjoyed to FC not sunk (as we always used to make every set and engineer it so 120 FC worth per content) to excess credits (as we don't use 16k energy on non-credit producing activities each content anymore).

ONE of the components of this decision is the 4k energy it seems to take to build a set now. The other, and probably major part, is the fact that energy is now at a premium.

So, while I answered that they are a "bit of a chore" the truth is that "bit of a chore" is now a big deal with content as rapidly delivered as it is now. I for one prefer having content roughly equal energy so that one can use a bit of energy on these side activities without falling behind. You can say "it's not necessary to be at end of content" all you want, but that won't change the mentality in this game after 2 years of a crowd at the top. A long explanation that basically says - it didn't USE to be an issue that it took 4k energy to get a set built. Now it is. We won't be building many so long as these two conditions exist....

[ecolitan]

Ummmm, too many extracted components? Well, the way the items are built - the more components that goes into an item the more points get assigned to that item. Soooo, the more components a blueprint has, the more powerful that item becomes :ugeek:

If I lower the components the items will become weaker

This has been in Sigma since day 1 and it's NOT going to change.

Is this a function of the pure number of components or the number of DIFFERENT components. As has been raised many times on the forums - if you require 9 from 2 versus 9 from 3 there is a massive difference in the distribution of how many drops it will take to build the set. By increasing the number of DIFFERENT components extracted from a resource you increase the length of time it takes to build the set for a significant portion of the players who will try.

[Berryann]

As I said, I can live with the drop rate My real complaint is extractions. As others have said in other threads, it always seems to be that the one I need is the one I don't get. I"m not asking for a change in the number of components at all (not sure where you got that idea!)

And I also agree with ecolitan - energy expended to make sets is really almost a waste - I'm in no rush to get to eoc - been there, didn't much like it. However, nobody really wants to lag way behind to hang around and make sets anymore.

[ecolitan]

Is this a function of the pure number of components or the number of DIFFERENT components. As has been raised many times on the forums - if you require 9 from 2 versus 9 from 3 there is a massive difference in the distribution of how many drops it will take to build the set. By increasing the number of DIFFERENT components extracted from a resource you increase the length of time it takes to build the set for a significant portion of the players who will try.

LoLz

You were here when I tried to make sets easier to make. I increased the drop from Elites and the Players went nuts. For two weeks I took the PM's and forums posts about it, then I added a component to the Elite resource to make the sets harder to make because THE PLAYERS DEMANDED IT. I thought it was a mistake, it undid my tweak and put construction of sets back to the difficulty it was. I did not allocate three components to an Elite resource out of spite.

On the up side the, with the addition component the power of the Set items went up. I can reduce the extractions on the resource, but the items will become weaker.

Yeah - but all those dynamics are different because of content delivery. I'm in a strange position because I have ALWAYS argued that it's ok for things to take a long time to do (energy). Of course, these arguments were always made in the context of an energy rich environment. Now we're in an energy poor environment which I think is not nearly as good for the game.

If there were consistent delivery of 50k content per month to the game none of this would be an issue. If it took a long time to make sets many players like me would argue - it's your energy to spend how you want but don't ask for easy set building profits. But, in the context of as much as 135k energy delivery per month (when we gain around 57k fully upgraded) it becomes a chore that stops us from "playing the game". As such, many of us stopped building them and scrape by until it's absolutely necessary to build the next. I don't think that's how devs want it. But, I also don't think just tweaking the drop rate fixes that....

[centurion]

you are talking about lvl 140 set I believe. back then majority of us were sublevelling. (200+ players) now only 2 of us are. I used to make 5-6 sets each month, and now I make 1 plus odd pieces to clean up my component. situation is vastly different now unless you stop cearting content again. (even then, it will take time to readjust, as very few sublevellers are in the game now) There are/were only few serious elite set makers in game, and most of us are not making sets currently to sell.

you can go high drop rate to off set component issue. or go from 3 to 2 component in a blue print to reduce the sigma of the distribution. (but also reduce need to change the component slots) all depends on whether you want luck to be bigger part of the game. I can live with either one, but for those with smaller component slots, second would be better than first.

[Maury Bund]

ONE of the components of this decision is the 4k energy it seems to take to build a set now. The other, and probably major part, is the fact that energy is now at a premium.

Wow. 4K of energy to build a set? You must be one lucky SOB. I've now spent over 5k trying to build the 300 set. I have not built a set in so long and have relied soley on Core items. In the last 2 days, I was lucky enough to have FINALLY made 2 of the 3 pcs, but look at spending almost that much to make the last pc as I'll be looking more for specific extracts.

The drops yesterday were at approximately 30% with FI active and 50% today with FI active, but the previous 3 hunts were nowhere close to that kind of drop rate, so maybe the law of averages is catching up to me on the positive side. Based on this, I probably won't make another set for quite some time and go back to Core items when this set no longer does me any good vs what I find, which sucks because I love the artwork on the 380 mutant set.

[mistzabuza]

hi sets are not to hard to build


and is drop rate is corrected its ok 12drops per 20kills ..extraction wit sal 130 is great so that's not problem and extract the right component isn't that bad so that shouldn't be change (and i got 40 same components once )


in the end there is to option lv up or build sets u cant do both grins :twisted:

[ecolitan]

ONE of the components of this decision is the 4k energy it seems to take to build a set now. The other, and probably major part, is the fact that energy is now at a premium.

Wow. 4K of energy to build a set? You must be one lucky SOB. I've now spent over 5k trying to build the 300 set. I have not built a set in so long and have relied soley on Core items. In the last 2 days, I was lucky enough to have FINALLY made 2 of the 3 pcs, but look at spending almost that much to make the last pc as I'll be looking more for specific extracts.

The drops yesterday were at approximately 30% with FI active and 50% today with FI active, but the previous 3 hunts were nowhere close to that kind of drop rate, so maybe the law of averages is catching up to me on the positive side. Based on this, I probably won't make another set for quite some time and go back to Core items when this set no longer does me any good vs what I find, which sucks because I love the artwork on the 380 mutant set.

Yeah, when looking back I debated changing that... But, with an expectation of 6 drops per hour and slightly less than 1k energy burn per hour it works out to around 4-6k energy if you don't get unlucky in extracting or where the Elites are in your walk. I will say the 4k is really the LOWEST expectation one could have for energy in building a set though and if there's competition for the Elite you are hunting it goes up by a factor of the number of players hunting it with you.

[ecolitan]

drop rate is corrected its ok 12drops per 20kills

The rest of your statement is fine as it's opinion that others may or may not agree with. This statement needs to be put in context though.

It's good that someone posted a positive outlier in here (in the other thread I noted these types of posts are less common than the opposite). BUT, if you think 12 drops per 20 kills is appropriate then you DO WANT A CHANGE IN DROP RATES. Since the expectation right now is around 7 drops in 20 kills....

[mistzabuza]

MauryBund wrote:The drops yesterday were at approximately 30% with FI active and 50% today with FI active, but the previous 3 hunts were nowhere close to that kind of drop rate


good to hear that ..no further changes are necessary

maybe just add one more components in further sets 420+(ou i like this set every 20lv not 10) and maybe some set with one add ons 4 other class say 430 weapon and addon and 440 helmet and addon (with 430 components mixed with 440)

[SlingBlade]

It seems we are being a little redundant here from the first thread on Set Building, considering the first thread overwhelmingly indicated the process was to hard and indicated that changes be made to make the process easier. I am not certain what this second thread is for but possibly for overkill to make sure we are heard and that Varkaz has legitimate issues to bring to the coders.

Elite sets are a chore to make, but that is part of the game, if you want the best equipment then you have to either spend extra time making it or you buy it whatever your preference. I think the biggest aspect of what your going to find on the issue of making sets is the extra time it takes, and this is where the debate comes in as to how long should it take, and for most Elite hunters and set makers what is my time worth in making a set, for as it has been addressed in this thread earlier ENERGY is a premium now. It appears that everyone agrees it takes anywhere from 4-6k energy to make a set from start to finish. And for most of us that do make sets when we start we don’t stop until it is done, and so we spend 2, 3, 4hrs at a time in the Elite areas hunting and yes the extra spawns or increase in drop rate would help out a lot.

The final aspect of set making in regards to its difficulty is the extraction percentages. And even though there have been numerous threads and ongoing feedback on this subject and for the players that make the sets it is not only having the drops but also getting the right components extracted. It takes 24 extractions to make a set, and with the failure process coupled with the inconsistency of extracting the right components this also adds to the difficulty in set making. I agree on average it normally takes anywhere from 40-50 drops to get a full set completed, so if the failure rate or the extraction process was more streamlined this too would shorten the time frame in making sets.

To summarize the players that make sets have done so mostly for two reasons. 1) personal accomplishment and 2) To help their factions have the right gear, are we going to quit making sets, probably not, but the question was brought up can the process be made easier, and so with increased drops better extraction ratios the Elite process can be streamlined.

Respectfully Submitted,
SB

[supermum]

I find there is no option for me to vote on .

I think making sets is work, but I have never made an elite set since I started the game, so cant really be sure.
Reason for not trying is share common sense..I hunt elites and donate the drops to the faction, and we have usually had 1-2 members building the sets, this way they could utilise the extracted resourses to the max.
now as content has come out so fast its hard to keep up, and we no longer have a lot of members at EOC, or even close, we have basically stopped making sets, as it takes to much time and energy. we made the level 300 sets, and will probably make 1 or 2 at level 360, and make do until more members reach said level.
personally I am using a borrowed set, and was it not for that I would have to make do with core items, as I also see a lot of people from other factions having to do.

The last 2 elites I have not even been able to kill solo, so out of the question hunting them .

[Maury Bund]

The last 2 elites I have not even been able to kill solo, so out of the question hunting them .

Hee, hee. And you are in a top faction with ALL kinds of FE'ed equipment. Do you feel some of my pain back on the missions where multiple Elites were required to pass when I'm in a small guild and struggled to solo as a mutant? Had a VERY difficult time getting groups together. 1 mission took me over a week to complete just the elite portion. I was 5 levels and 2 missions past it before I was done. bleh!

[acidic]

I don't think it has ever been a question of hardness. In truth they are easy to build. It is more a question of time consumption and redundancy.

They are terribly frustrating in my opinion, but I guess that is because I have things I would rather do with my time than hunt the same mob for hours upon hours. I don't mind the energy exchange, I just wish I didn't have to sit for 8 minutes out of each spawn. I would rather have sets made from completing a series of tasks (which have a better xp pay out) and can allow me to build a set in 1-2 hours.

Think of it this way, I typically burn 15,000 energy in 1-2 hours and find that fulfilling. Taking 6-10 hours to burn 2000-3000 energy is just too slow paced to hold my interest (or as I mentioned before, keep my wife off my butt).