223 replies to this topic

[RebornJedi]

Wow! Did I really read this correctly?
 
So lets look at these figures a bit further. If you are on the BB then you have chosen to take that risk. But following your figures, for just 1000 stam a PVPer can have some fun and take from me 3000 stam and stuff up my game goals, and can do that when I have done nothing to tempt or provoke PVP.
 
And you suggest the punishment for PVPing is harsh? To me it pales beside the punishment for being PVPed. Little wonder many levellers feel so agrieved by this.

1000 worth of stamina over the course of 10 hours with EACH attack being able to be bountied, so a total of 50 levels for 10 attacks that might of took a level depending on Deflect, Honor, Bastion, and Protection buff.. Plus let's not forget about the ultimate defense, XP protection



I can lose five levels for just one 10 stamina attack that I might of not even won or had the chance to fight because of deflect..

[sweetlou]

Since we're talking about returning things to their formal glory I would enjoy removing the 5 level cap on delevelings on the BB. But if that sounds too harsh just increase the 5 level cap to 10 or 20. And while we're at making the game more difficult could we see the removal of the exploit where players sit on champions and lose colossal amounts of levels only to relevel with a global pot? Hey I'm guilty myself... Players need to relevel by normal means.

 

I also find it offensive that the "bully" moniker is still used, especially by game officials, in a role playing game. Players/admins should treat others with respect and courtesy in all facets of life. Problems arise when written communications begin especially between antagonists. Avoid PMs and allow game mechanics to speak for you.

 

From the ToS: Safety and Abuse

If you are the victim of offensive or inappropriate behaviour or receive any other unwanted communications, you should report all inappropriate behaviour to as well as seeking appropriate external help, for example from parents or law enforcement authorities. If you continue to suffer problems, or are not satisfied, then you must stop using our Websites.

 

If a player is unhappy or offended with anything while plaing, then they need to send a support ticket and if that doesn't solve their problems it states clearly to cease using their websites. People need to take responsibilities for their own lives and actions. The name calling needs to stop. This is a game!!

[RebornJedi]

Since we're talking about returning things to their formal glory I would enjoy removing the 5 level cap on delevelings on the BB. But if that sounds too harsh just increase the 5 level cap to 10 or 20. 

hitting that cap would be too easy for a network of players, like just The Evil Dead alone.. not to mention personal allies..

 

tis an extreme suggestion..

 

i hope 'old school' pvpers aren't moved or hopefully by Hoof's words about the formal 'glory' of PvP.. you'll probably never see anything related to the times back then.. just don't want to see your heart's broken when changes eventually come 

[justinian9]

Since we're talking about returning things to their formal glory I would enjoy removing the 5 level cap on delevelings on the BB. But if that sounds too harsh just increase the 5 level cap to 10 or 20. And while we're at making the game more difficult could we see the removal of the exploit where players sit on champions and lose colossal amounts of levels only to relevel with a global pot? Hey I'm guilty myself... Players need to relevel by normal means.

 

I also find it offensive that the "bully" moniker is still used, especially by game officials, in a role playing game. Players/admins should treat others with respect and courtesy in all facets of life. Problems arise when written communications begin especially between antagonists. Avoid PMs and allow game mechanics to speak for you.

 

From the ToS: Safety and Abuse

If you are the victim of offensive or inappropriate behaviour or receive any other unwanted communications, you should report all inappropriate behaviour to as well as seeking appropriate external help, for example from parents or law enforcement authorities. If you continue to suffer problems, or are not satisfied, then you must stop using our Websites.

 

If a player is unhappy or offended with anything while plaing, then they need to send a support ticket and if that doesn't solve their problems it states clearly to cease using their websites. People need to take responsibilities for their own lives and actions. The name calling needs to stop. This is a game!!

I'm not sure more level loss on the BB would be a good thing.  The game has change alot in the past few years and levelers are not as aggressive as they once were... PvP crews would support each other and a single leveling crew would not have enough players that know how to fight back to make this a close fight.  Very few levelers seem to understand even the basics of PvP.  They are not going to learn these skills in a fight losing 10 or 20 levels each time they get on the BB.

 

Maybe this would wake a few crews up to getting more allie guilds, but somehow I just dont think it would.

 

It would have less effect on upper level players as I would think most of us have fight on the BB a few times.

[apedde]

one month ago I decided to quit and today friend send me a facebook message that hoofmaster is back and posted this:

 

Over the years as the game's evolved, we feel that many of the PvP discussions and changes have actually been detrimental to PvP and essentially watered down what was once a really important part of the game.

 

Any discussions on PvP on the forum usually are split 50/50 on whether the community thinks they're a good idea or not and I feel it kinda creates a divide. We'd actually like to see PvP move back towards how it used to be back when the game first launched as it was something that was exciting and vibrant - I'm sure many players who have been around that long will remember the difference!

 

it took me a minute to come back to FS, welcome back hoofmaster

 

maybe rebornjedi your heart will be broken when we see anything pvp related to the times back then

[apedde]

I am happy to see hoofmaster and mojawk returning back

[sweetlou]

hitting that cap would be too easy for a network of players, like just The Evil Dead alone.. not to mention personal allies..

 

tis an extreme suggestion..

 

i hope 'old school' pvpers aren't moved or hopefully by Hoof's words about the formal 'glory' of PvP.. you'll probably never see anything related to the times back then.. just don't want to see your heart's broken when changes eventually come 

'Twas merely a suggestion... Is it extreme? I don't think so at all.

 

The player base has shrunk. It's not as easy finding enough players just to take 5 as it once was. My aim here is to increase the difficulty of the game ever so slightly. We need somethings to give the game more of a challenge.The repeated 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,r has gotten old for many. I'd also like to see better rewards to entice players to PvP. PvP is an integral part of the game and players need to accept that. What if something as valuable as skill points were rewarded for PvP that made your character more powerful? Watch the game tone change and the rift that's been created between styles of play disappear.

[sweetlou]

Very few levelers seem to understand even the basics of PvP.

There are only slight differences between attacking a mob and hitting another player. Each person's character still has attack, defense, armor, damage and HP. The basic game mechanics are the same; attack over defense, etc.

[justinian9]

There are only slight differences between attacking a mob and hitting another player. Each person's character still has attack, defense, armor, damage and HP. The basic game mechanics are the same; attack over defense, etc.

agree, but they dont know the buffs and how they will work for or against you.  I am no expert either as I only know what I know from need.  Leveling buffs we use all the time... PvP is another matter all together.  Understanding PvP setup seems to be another issue... levelers are use to SSI... no such animal in PvP... getting the enhancements you want from a setup so on and so forth... heck you know what I am talking about.

 

Back when I joined you had better know something or you would have a bulls eye on your back.  I would look to see what PvPer range I was leveling into, I would power level through the most aggressive PvPer ranges if I could. 

[Little Mac]

if I may ask, what happened to the Level up your character page? no more text boxes, so I have to click 1 point at a time?

[apedde]

if you have more than 10 level up points then you get extra option with box to write how many level up points you want to add in the box

[RebornJedi]

maybe rebornjedi your heart will be broken when we see anything pvp related to the times back then

what do you assume will be the future for PvP? ..

 

i think it will be 'watered' down, as one may put it.. we will see nothing related to the old ways of PvP - maybe JUST the game wide PvP ladder.. with such a heavy discussion on XP loss over the past months, the risk of PvP will be reduced across the game to promote activity.. which we will see with a new playing field, rewards and the reduction(or removal) of XP loss..

 

i hope they focus on reducing the punishment for PvPing.. we should be mainly rewarded not punished  - which hasn't been keep up with over the evolution of this game. The risk of PvPing cripples most players from dipping their toes into that aspect of the game.. i hope they nerf and water the hell out of PvP for the sake of the game.. 

[BadPenny]

Food for thought... I shall digest what the padawan says....

[RebornJedi]

I also find it offensive that the "bully" moniker is still used, especially by game officials, in a role playing game. Players/admins should treat others with respect and courtesy in all facets of life. Problems arise when written communications begin especially between antagonists. Avoid PMs and allow game mechanics to speak for you.

well it sure did work on stopping most of the bullys.. er pvpers.. er players.. the bully label bullied players out of the game.. hope it was worth it.. *shrugs* it was effective i guess.. but at what cost

Edited by RebornJedi, 22 November 2014 - 23:12.

[apedde]

Over the years as the game's evolved, we feel that many of the PvP discussions and changes have actually been detrimental to PvP and essentially watered down what was once a really important part of the game.

 

Any discussions on PvP on the forum usually are split 50/50 on whether the community thinks they're a good idea or not and I feel it kinda creates a divide. We'd actually like to see PvP move back towards how it used to be back when the game first launched as it was something that was exciting and vibrant - I'm sure many players who have been around that long will remember the difference!

 

So to answer your question - we're going to focus on adding a new PvP tournament system (and at the same time remove the ladder) without changing 'normal' PvP in the game. I do think many aspects of normal PvP also need improved (such as the bounty board), but any changes we do make will be to improve it, not dilute it

these are words from hoofmaster himself, creator of this game

 

rebornjedi, why was old pvp years ago very active? the BB was full of bounties everyday, the risk of losing levels was very much higher than now, we had no pvp protection, many players did pvp, even levelers, my friends and old guild were among them, there was no 5 level cap losing on BB, you could lose very many levels with only 1 bounty and still pvp was almost everywhere

 

what many players said and hoofmaster himself said is that over the years pvp updates watered down pvp

you only need to READ the pvp updates and understand what they did and you will agree with us

 

your joining level is in june 2007 that means you know how active pvp was back then even with the very high risk we had, you can not compare the risk we had in pvp back then to now

 

in topics you want prestige attacks, deflected attacks, conserve attacks be non-bountable, you want reducing xp loss and finally remove xp loss from the game for making it safe and no risk in game

 

and what is with players calling someone a bully because he is a pvper?

I am a pvper but that does not mean that I am automatically a bully because I do pvp

I play other genres too: am I a bully because I attack other players in shooting games or fighting games? NO, I do PVP

how would players feel if we started calling non-pvpers cowards? this is wrong so please stop with this stupid name calling

Edited by apedde, 22 November 2014 - 23:51.

[RebornJedi]

PvPers who hourly attacks with 100 stamina were called bullies from BigGrim, the community manager.. that's around the time when himself, and on behalf of hoof said they were looking to remove XP loss from the game fully.. 

 

do i think XP loss should be removed fully, no.. it's only 1%-10% of a level..

 

do i think if it was removed fully would it allow PvP to thrive, yes.. Fear is what holding this game's PvP back.. 

 

 

rebornjedi, why was old pvp years ago very active? the BB was full of bounties everyday, the risk of losing levels was very much higher than now, we had no pvp protection, many players did pvp, even levelers, my friends and old guild were among them, there was no 5 level cap losing on BB, you could lose very many levels with only 1 bounty and still pvp was almost everywhere

PvP was active because of the amount of players and gold theft.. the  risk was actually much lower than it is now with the Bounty Board because it took an army to drop their levels and it was easy to make them up.. lower level players made up a lot of the bounty board, high levels would pop up during a dispute between players or guilds.. plus we have to take into account that gold was worth more back then.. why risk levels that mean more than the 1/3 of the gold on hand that you might get if your attack goes through..

 

reduce the risk.. you passively increase the reward..

 

if we lowered the level loss on the BB from a single attack, i can guarantee we will have a lot more bounties.. put more gold into the hands of players so thieves are tempted more.. the gold amount you gain from attacks doesn't encourage the risk of losing five levels.. 

 

plus the cows didn't interfere with guild wars as often.. guild wars as it was is basically banned from the game right now.. it is an unwritten law that hourly attacks on multiple guild members of a certain guild can get you suspended or terminated.. even if no words were exchanged.. hopefully this doesn't happen anymore but why risk it..

Edited by RebornJedi, 23 November 2014 - 00:02.

[mary4ever]

sorry jedi but I have to disagree with you because back then the risk was much higher + leveling up was very difficult !!!!

 

lets talk about the RISKS:

you had no pvp protection, no xp lock, 1 bounty could not take up to 5 levels, it could take much more (I saw a player losing 72 levels with only 1 bounty), deflect was not overpowered, honor was not reducing xp loss + many more other RISKS, I just listed a few from the top of my head

 

lets talk about LEVELING

you had NO epic pots like AL750, LIB750, ..... , you had NO global events to give you global chests like AL500, ....., you had NO distil150 pots, NO doubler1200 from the loyalty section, NO AM500 to keep hitting the champion for more xp and if I am not mistaken creatures used to give less xp than now !!!!

 

people used to hunt with the buff skill AL175 so you could not even use distil50 !!!!!

as you can see it would take you a lot more stamina to get 1 level + you had to change your hunting setup during your hunts because you needed more attack or defense or damage + we had NO high lvl buffs like coord attack & smashing hammer to increase our damage + LE sets were very rare & expensive & if you compare the stats of our current LE sets to the old ones (same level) then you will notice that the old LE sets had much poorer stats => less damage

 

I remember it took me over 1,5 months to get to lvl 100 and during that time I was not doing any pvp at all, always using my stamina to hunt !!!

I helped many new players how to efficiently hunt and now they can get from lvl 1 to 100+ in 6-8 hours !!!!

 

what took me & others back then over 1,5 months can be done in 6-8 hours by the new players now !!!!

 

despite the harsh conditions NOBODY can deny that the glory days of PvP were back then with THOUSANDS of online players where PvP was very ACTIVE & at its peak !!!!

 

PS: back then when you listed your gold in marketplace to sell for FSPs, you could see the name of the player in your log which added more risk + there was no gloat to increase % of gold stolen !!!!

[RebornJedi]

great points, mary

[rowbeth]

Yes - great points, Mary. You also had defense sets high enough to challenge the best equipped PVP, so offline sets really meant something, but you had no epics to make you choose between holding Xp and gaining stam. You had an active AH, with gold-sets making a competitive market where you could both hide your gold and make a profit. Those were also the glory days of merchanting, and the glory days of guilds (where people would actually pay FSP to join a guild) and (to my mind) the glory days of hunting where you actually had to acquire multiple sets optimised differently for each level before starting a hunt.

 

I wonder if it is possible to recreate any bit of those glory days without recreating all of it, because I really can't see the mega potions being withdrawn, nor the abundance of LE sets, and I doubt that uber-defense sets will be introduced to re-establish a balance, and doubt even more that uber-defensvie epics will be introduced so that (as in the glory days) there would be no choice between holding Xp and gaining stamina.

 

But even more, I wonder how much of those glory days were actually due to more than 3000 people online at any time, rather than being due to individual bits of the game mechanics. If that is the case, then ostracising any significant part of the current community is just going to accelerate a downward spiral. I really can't see that feeding either side of a PVP/leveller divide will create a vibrant future for this game.

[Pardoux]

 the glory days of hunting where you actually had to acquire multiple sets optimised differently for each level before starting a hunt.

 

 

Ah, the good old days, when you had to actually THINK about hunting ... hope they can return