228 replies to this topic

[Necra]

 

 

#4 Fighting back is a losing proposition, as I have explained. And what about the players who just want to avoid Pvp but cannot? XP losk is expensive, PvP protection is temporary. I thought we could make more people participate and realise there is nothing to fear. That PvP could be more inclusive. Maybe I overreached - fair enough. If the current system were fairer - you'd see more people fighting back, more people posting and more people bounty hunting. The current system does not encourage fighting back as the person who hits back/bounties is always at a disadvantage. Largely through the device of counter bounty. I have explained why I think this is so already over many novel length posts. I have show how the choices a person faces after the initial attack are all negative - largely due to counter bounty being in the hands of PvP players from the start. You can ignore or discount my logic as you wish. I am not invested in it beyond trying to find a way to improve the game. And I know it is not my game to improve - it is HCS'. They can decide whose argument holds water, how it would effect their bottom line, and what they can do about it. Further - they can analyse what data they have and that we lack to make an informed decision.

 

you are wrong - as Ryebred pm'd u,    i fought back.     i learned how to survive and adapt

[sweetlou]

What Belaric, and others like him, dislikes about the current system imo is that they can't or won't lose xp to defend their guildmates or friends because they feel that they have already lost. They have given up on PvP so they want to change the game. The schism between players who purely level and those that don't has only grown. Where we defer tremendously is how this schism should be filled. When BigGrim mentioned that he wanted to add some quests in the early stages that required people to PvP I thought, it's about time... like a bandaid on a hatchet wound.

 

Why isn't/wasn't there enough incentive to PvP or BH from the beginning? Why is leveling the only source of skill points and guaranteed gold? PvP has always been a mandatory component of the game, even if you buy XP lock or PvP protection(not until gold was susceptible here) yet it hasn't been given the acknowledgement it deserves. It is not like Arena or Titan hunting, both later additions to the game. Those don't effect everyone. PvP does!

 

Greater automatic punishment is what Belaric is after whether he wants to call it what it is or not. The current BB is a small amount of automatic punishment, until a bounty expires at least(there's a whole added mini game right there). I'm sorry but players need to learn to PvP. The devs have dropped the ball so long that they need a drastic incentive to fill the huge gap. They were too happy with enough donaters buying stam to clamor up levels as fast as they could as fast as new content could be made.  Now here we are at an impasse. Fixing this, everyone will not be pleased, but that's the way life works. If you think this game can survive without PvP conflict, go for it. Good luck. See SS2 as evidence. Further changes that bring players to play both sides of the game is what's required, asap. How to do it is up to Hoof.

[Necra]

Sweet then thats an aspect of the game they shouldnt play - its all about "RISK"  - chance - ppl go to the casino no one WANTS to loose but its a risk they take to have a CHANCE to win  or in this case to get the medals  ....   u want to play that aspect of the game u need to be ready to take on the risk of loosing that XP it some LVL's  i have no idea how many times this has been said about PVP  it goes for ANY GAME that has pvp...... why should this one be any different?    reminds me of the Northern Quilted Commercial   


https://www.youtube....h?v=c__DsPxDQME

[sweetlou]

i stopped posting due to my input being called "assumptions". when the reason for this thread is based on assumptions......   my " assumptions" are based on my years of experience in this game and knowledge of the LVL'rs and pvp"rs  .....    but thats fine....  u tried your best to debunk any constructive input or ideas....   team work was great. thanks for trolling....  should try and be a little more flexible and work with others input.... things would have been more positive....  but no....  i feel its your way or the highway........  thats the impression u have given me reading along with others input to your opinionated ideas.

Necra, your input is greatly respected by me and many players for your knowledge about the game, period. Don't ever let anyone derail your input. You have devoted way too much towards this game to not feel like you deserve to be heard. Keep posting!!

[Mzzery]

These are my views... now that I finally have more time to actually read and post.. lol

*  You shouldn't be able to buy a de-levelling party when you post, by upping the payment. You can already get someone delevelled by organizing a delevelling party before you post and posting only when everyone is ready to hit. It works, all it requires is that you're a bit social and interact a bit with your friends, so they'll want to help you out. To pay for a delevelling party goes against every single thing I like about the game. That would be like forcing every bounty hunter to become a mercenary unwillingly. That WOULD make me quit bounty hunting. I'm nobody's mercenary. I do like helping friends though. VERY important difference there to me.

 

* The bounty board takes twice as much xp as the same kind of hit does ingame, so a 10 stam clear already takes 2 times as much xp on the BB as one 100 stam hit does "ingame".

 

* If you want to bounty hunt, make sure you hit every 2 minutes. If you take 2 hours doing a bounty, you SHOULD get posted imho. (Someone mentioned that they were multi tasking, and took 2 hours to clear a bounty cuz of that, and they were upset about being counter bountied). A bounty is sort of like a date... don't go on a date unless you have time for your date, or he/she WILL get upset. 

 

* If someone has already started a bounty, the "xp loss remaining" will in 99% of the cases no longer end in the number 50. It's always a good thing to check that before you start swinging.

 

* Don't take a bounty, and then stop if the person happens to get buffed up. And don't demand that they get rid of their gear for you to be able to clear them. AND don't walk away unless you made sure they are okay with it. What I mean is.. if you are lvl 700 and someone at lvl 1900 is on the BB, and geared up, maybe you should wait for another bounty instead, unless you want to risk getting counter bountied if any of the stuff in this  section applied.

 

* If you don't wanna risk getting counter bountied, don't bounty hunt. If you bounty someone for having done a swift 10 stam clear where the hitter hit every 2 minutes, and didn't give up just cuz he/she lost a few swings or got deflected a few times, then you'll most likely end up on a Wanted Targets list, and get 100 stam cleared by said player from then on. It's just that simple. 

 

There are sooo many ways you can hide your gold and protect your xp already, so why make the game even more risk free?

 

And yeah, it's a GAME... nothing to get all upset about. I think we all play to get a bit of relaxation and fun, and to hang out with friends. Some only want to play safe and build up their character, and gain levels etc, and they already have all the tools to do so safely. It doesn't cost much to buy that upgrade.

 

It's impossible to buy an upgrade that makes deflect go away when you want to steal someone's gold, since antideflect really isn't all that efficient. It's impossible to steal all your gold unless the master thief enhancement kicks in, and it does so only on occasion. And, it's impossible to bounty you if you don't hit someone in the first place. If you want a risk free game, don't take risks. Don't carry gold around, and buy that xp protect upgrade or the xp lock upgrade. 

 

I refuse to play a game where interaction with other players isn't important, and this is the one thing where it is VERY important, in FS. Why make the game more antisocial, by removing the need to gather up hitters for a delevelling party?

 

No... 

 

- keep the need for socializing. Don't force every bounty hunter to become an unwilling mercenary.

- remove deflect from the bounty board.

- Leave the BB the way it is, just remove the prestige gained on it, and remove the opt-in for the ladder. In short: If the ladder is no longer opt-in, and people gain their points smacking ingame, they shouldn't lose them on the bounty board.

 

 

 

Oh, and cookies... I like cookies. Especially chocolate chip cookies. Yum

 

Lost my trail of thought now.. anyway.... Thank you for reading

Edited by Mzzery, 12 April 2014 - 03:07.

[Calista]

OP, the problem is in a pvp game you need the ability to hit back as many times as needed to achieve a desired result.  If this isn't a pvp game, then you have a valid claim.  If this is a pvp game then you don't.  It's clear the Cows have stated this is a pvp game.  If you remove the ability to bounty the bounty hunter, you remove the ability to hit back.  This is a pvp game just like it is a leveling game and a titan hunting game and many other 'games.'  If I don't personally like an aspect of the game, I move on.  Please move on.

 

+1

[Davros81]

belaric how often do you buy keyboards? or can you remember which key is which after the letters fade?

Classic Gold mate, no offense to you Belaric, I love your essays they make the forums interesting

[Belaric]

OP, the problem is in a pvp game you need the ability to hit back as many times as needed to achieve a desired result.  If this isn't a pvp game, then you have a valid claim.  If this is a pvp game then you don't.  It's clear the Cows have stated this is a pvp game.  If you remove the ability to bounty the bounty hunter, you remove the ability to hit back.  This is a pvp game just like it is a leveling game and a titan hunting game and many other 'games.'  If I don't personally like an aspect of the game, I move on.  Please move on.

 

So it is thunderdome - last man standing - hit as many times as you can, until the other guy gives up. Okay. I did not know that was the definition of PvP game. Maybe it is. I know BG is very big on this being a PvP game.

 

I've made my case. I will move on. You can enjoy your game, I will play mine, we'll see how long it lasts. Nothing else for it. See what the cows do.

[Belaric]

Even though this has probably been de-railed, and it's hard to pick out the good posts vs the flaming posts (which I agree usually happens with every discussion versus groups within this game).

 

However, Belaric, I don't necessarily agree about the bounty board. I don't think most of the suggestions would help make the bounty board a more active place, rather than not having enough bounty hunters. Activity on the board would mean more bounties, which would mean more opportunity for players to test the waters.

 

The first point - the victim setting the punishment. I can see this, but as with in the past, I don't think this necessarily worked out too well. I believe the amount of gold/fsp necessary to set the limits of what you would need to take 3-5 levels would outweigh the cost that would be required. You could not make this too cheap, as everyone would obviously want to take the maximum amount of levels - as was shown in the past when a player could pick between 10 and 100 stam bounties.

 

Which leads into the 2nd point - bounty hunting should have a risk involved with it - no matter what. There is a risk vs reward in all aspects of the game, and the risk should not be removed from the bounty board. To put it in a few words, bounty hunting is still Player vs Player, so as with PVP, there should always be a risk involved. Since players do not lose XP while losing to players on the bounty board, then they should still be able to be bountied. There are, and will continue to be some victims on those who bounty hunt, it should be expected to happen sometime. Most of the time, the bounty board is a self-policing part of the game, where those who bounty the bounty hunter for 10-stam clears, should receive 100 stams next time they're on the board. By removing the time limit of the bounty expiration, then you remove the main reason a few players have been complaining about being bountied for 10-stam clears (because it was too close to the bounty expiring). Also, there should never be the ability in the game to 100-stam a player without any repercussions - whether you're the "face of justice" that bounty hunters are or you are the most hated player in the game. I hate pulling RL examples into posts, but bounty hunters in real life take risks whenever they take a bounty. They can be hurt by the other person and still be arrested by the law for not following the law. I just don't agree with taking any risk out of a portion of the game, especially the bounty board. Quite frankly, I'd think that the suggestions may actually kill PVP in general as it's usually risk vs reward when it comes to PVP.

 

With being able to bounty the bounty hunters still in my mind, I don't see the advantages of guildmates clearing guildmates. I think this could even hurt the game by bringing out a lot of unnecessary drama in guilds - ie when a guildmate starts 100 stamming another guildmate, many people will complain and many guilds may fragment.

 

Finally, I like the idea of creating the new top rated. I see a lot of ways that they can be manipulated, but just like every leader board/reward, it can be done anyway.

 

Overall, I think the bounty board works pretty well as it does now. Even though plenty of players don't think it provides enough punishment, PVP players lose minimum 2x the amount of XP they can take from one player per hit. Another possible suggestion is the lower the amount of XP by .5 (maximum of 5% for 100 stam hit and .5% for 10-stam). This would increase the penalty for bountying hits to a minimum of 4x what a player can lose for a 100 stam. Increasing the PVP activity within the game would lead to more players put on the bounty board. Increasing theft rates of gold would be a great place to start.

 

Increasing PVP would lead to an increased use of the bounty board. The increased use of the bounty board would allow more players to take bounties, which will give more opportunity for new players to try bounty hunting. While this doesn't give players a way to really "learn" about PVP, but just like any other aspect of the game, people should take the time to learn the basics - whether it's an in-game tutorial with NPC type characters to test the skills of players in a PVP type setting without any repercussions

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Thanks for reading.

Thanks for your input kedyn. You make some fair points, tweaks and alterations would have to be addressed to make anything workable. You think the self-policing works. I don't. We'll have to leave it there, clearly. I think risk is a joke on the PvP side due to the BB - as I have said and explained elsewhere. I'll keep my opinion, you can continue to think that risk is a good thing on the BB. The proof of the pudding will be in its operation, and in the overall health of the game.

 

Increasing gold theft rates - sure try it. This is my allegorial opinion on why it won't work.

 

The North Wind and the Sun were disputing which was the stronger, when a traveler came along wrapped in a warm cloak. They agreed that the one who first succeeded in making the traveler take his cloak off should be considered stronger than the other. Then the North Wind blew as hard as he could, but the more he blew the more closely did the traveler fold his cloak around him; and at last the North Wind gave up the attempt. Then the Sun shined out warmly, and immediately the traveler took off his cloak.  

 

The north wind wants more incentives to steal gold - to blow off the cloak. The more you get to steal - the more the game population will cling to their cloak - hide their gold and avoid PvP. I'm not averse to trying it. I think other players here have pointed out that increasing gold alone will not solve the problem.   You need the sun, a reason for the players not to fear PvP any longer and relax and participate, take off their cloak and join in, if they want to. That was all I wished to do. Lets see what HCS decide to do.

Edited by Belaric, 12 April 2014 - 13:06.

[Belaric]

i stopped posting due to my input being called "assumptions". when the reason for this thread is based on assumptions......   my " assumptions" are based on my years of experience in this game and knowledge of the LVL'rs and pvp"rs  .....    but thats fine....  u tried your best to debunk any constructive input or ideas....   team work was great. thanks for trolling....  should try and be a little more flexible and work with others input.... things would have been more positive....  but no....  i feel its your way or the highway........  thats the impression u have given me reading along with others input to your opinionated ideas.

I have made clear arguments. I have not trolled. Nor did I get emotive and start talking about haters with no evidence.

 

Projection in a post - this should be a case study. There - that was trolling.

 

I put my ideas out here and have responded to most posts - I've been pretty flexible. In the face of some rather inflexible thought, if you must know.

 

The only team work was on your side, I alone have defended my ideas - the PvP community has appeared in force - you have forum counter bountied me - called in reinforcements first - LOL!! You make my point here too! But choose not to see it. Fair enough - if I could change your minds about how you are affecting the game, that would be great, but i don't expect that - I've read enough Pvp threads to know that is not how it ends. I'm making my case to the devs. They can look at the data and decide what to do.

[Belaric]

you are wrong - as Ryebred pm'd u,    i fought back.     i learned how to survive and adapt

I replied to Ryebred in PM and disputed his points in places agreed in others. I kept it private and did not bring it up on the forum. So why do you bring that up?

 

Good for you to fight back and survive - you chose to do that, many others choose to walk away, and not because they are mentally fragile and need medical attention. If enough walk away we have no game, PvP and non-Pvp alike.

[Belaric]

What Belaric, and others like him, dislikes about the current system imo is that they can't or won't lose xp to defend their guildmates or friends because they feel that they have already lost. They have given up on PvP so they want to change the game. The schism between players who purely level and those that don't has only grown. Where we defer tremendously is how this schism should be filled. When BigGrim mentioned that he wanted to add some quests in the early stages that required people to PvP I thought, it's about time... like a bandaid on a hatchet wound.

 

Why isn't/wasn't there enough incentive to PvP or BH from the beginning? Why is leveling the only source of skill points and guaranteed gold? PvP has always been a mandatory component of the game, even if you buy XP lock or PvP protection(not until gold was susceptible here) yet it hasn't been given the acknowledgement it deserves. It is not like Arena or Titan hunting, both later additions to the game. Those don't effect everyone. PvP does!

 

Greater automatic punishment is what Belaric is after whether he wants to call it what it is or not. The current BB is a small amount of automatic punishment, until a bounty expires at least(there's a whole added mini game right there). I'm sorry but players need to learn to PvP. The devs have dropped the ball so long that they need a drastic incentive to fill the huge gap. They were too happy with enough donaters buying stam to clamor up levels as fast as they could as fast as new content could be made.  Now here we are at an impasse. Fixing this, everyone will not be pleased, but that's the way life works. If you think this game can survive without PvP conflict, go for it. Good luck. See SS2 as evidence. Further changes that bring players to play both sides of the game is what's required, asap. How to do it is up to Hoof.

The SS2 analogy is bogus on its face. A favourite hobby horse but wrong. I explained that to Chazz earlier. The PvP system was part of the failure there but not all. As will be the case if this game fails, Pvp will have been part of te failure but not all. Or will you continue to insist that PvP is blameless in all things?

 

You are shifting the goalposts. Again. It isn't about what I feel. It is about the fairness of the system and its in built inequality as it stands. Which the PvP community benefits from and clearly does not want to admit to. You, in common with everyone else avoids answering my questions about the BB. They are repeated many times in this thread and never get answered. Your communal silence is now deafening. I'd like to change the game to try to reverse its decline see it thrive. As it stands it is withering. I have clearly stated my reasons for why I think this is so. The dead BB is an important symptom of what is wrong with the game as a whole.

 

LOL! I already suggested adding PvP quests early - I even suggested putting them in the epic quest as a great way to get EVERYONE to try it as the epic quest is one which EVERYONE will do due to the bonuses it gives, and will let noobs fight it out between each other (as they would be doing the quest at the ame time.... if there are enough of them who are not multis) and realise PvP is not so bad. I have supported and suggested PvP globals to get more people playing PvP. I am not a one dimensional anti-Pvper, though it would be easier for you if I were.

 

I argue for more punishment as I feel currently a large swathe of the game populations feels disenfranchised by PvP, and so do not even bother participating. They cannot compete, unless they organise and become another Pvp guild - which many would not want to do, and which would not solve the structural problems I have outlined many times. The dead BB makes my case for me. It is not being used. The status quo is not working, unless the dead BB is to someone's benefit. Who would benefit from a dead BB other than the PvP community I wonder?

 

I seek clarity and consistency. An end to unwritten codes and the ability to blame the victim for your choice to CB on the BB. Just do it because you can and be honest about it. The fact that you come up with justifications, when by rule you really don't have to just shows you know it is unfair - and you'd like to soften that by giving yourselves justification for doing something that is always to your advantage. Fair enough guys - go for it. as far as I'm concerned you are fooling nobody anymore. Which is why they don't play. Clarity, and consistency for all. The current PvP system lacks it, and the choices available consistently advantage the PvP playing community. Until those things are addressed, I do not believe people will come back to it. But that is merely my opinion.

[Belaric]

These are my views... now that I finally have more time to actually read and post.. lol Thanks for taking the time, i appreciate it is not a small chunk!

*  You shouldn't be able to buy a de-levelling party when you post, by upping the payment. You can already get someone delevelled by organizing a delevelling party before you post and posting only when everyone is ready to hit. It works, all it requires is that you're a bit social and interact a bit with your friends, so they'll want to help you out. To pay for a delevelling party goes against every single thing I like about the game. That would be like forcing every bounty hunter to become a mercenary unwillingly. That WOULD make me quit bounty hunting. I'm nobody's mercenary. I do like helping friends though. VERY important difference there to me. I appreciate your feeling. CB means every delevel party will itself be delevelled in response. If the delevel partiers then manage to delevel everyone who helped delevel them (difficult, given the explosion in numbers of people involved), they will be counter bountied again. This goes on until one side is exhausted. I have said I think this ultimately drives people away from the BB. If you think it has not, Cool. We'll just have to disagree on why the BB is dead.

 

* The bounty board takes twice as much xp as the same kind of hit does ingame, so a 10 stam clear already takes 2 times as much xp on the BB as one 100 stam hit does "ingame". Big deal. PvP players have trumpeted how they don't care about their levels. You can regain them faster using the VL loophole. This quoted amount of XP loss is no disincentive to hitting ending up on the BB. In my opinion.

 

* If you want to bounty hunt, make sure you hit every 2 minutes. If you take 2 hours doing a bounty, you SHOULD get posted imho. (Someone mentioned that they were multi tasking, and took 2 hours to clear a bounty cuz of that, and they were upset about being counter bountied). A bounty is sort of like a date... don't go on a date unless you have time for your date, or he/she WILL get upset. Ah -rules for how to do it 'properly'. These are your customs and your arbitrary rules. And they quickly turn into your excuses for counter bountying. I am sorry - but I find them baseless. Anyone who has RL interfere unexpectedly gives reason to be CB'd in your example. Sometimes rainchecks have to happen, even mid-date. Unless they send a message to their target asking not to be CB'd? That kind of demonstrates the power dynamic that is wrong I think. The person on the board should not have more power than the people trying to hit them. Why? Because the person on the board chose to run the risk (I said the word - even if that current risk is very low) of being there by hitting someone first in game. They deserve to be there. CB gives you that power. You can create rationalisations for why you are justified for doing it, but none cover for the basic fact that CB is a huge advantage to your play style.

 

* If someone has already started a bounty, the "xp loss remaining" will in 99% of the cases no longer end in the number 50. It's always a good thing to check that before you start swinging. Ok.

 

* Don't take a bounty, and then stop if the person happens to get buffed up.LOL! Fair enough. And don't demand that they get rid of their gear for you to be able to clear them. LMAO! Agreed.AND don't walk away unless you made sure they are okay with it.Why? If they walk away you have defeated them, player versus player. Them walking away is proof of your victory. Unless of course they just hit you 9 times straight for a delevel. In which case - which circumstance is the correct one? Is it okay to walk away in one and not the other? I presume you support the idea of delevelling people, therefore you must accept that walking away after 9 is appropriate then as part of the strategy to drop the other guy 5? Your unwritten rules, as clearly shown there, lack consistency, and normally add up to one rule for you and your pals (when you delevel via CB for instance), another for everyone else when they try and fail to finish a bounty on you.This is the point I am making: Unwritten inconsistent rules are made just to favour one side and their own preset playing preferences. They are window dressing pure and simple. Thank you for helping me illustrate it again.    What I mean is.. if you are lvl 700 and someone at lvl 1900 is on the BB, and geared up, maybe you should wait for another bounty instead, unless you want to risk getting counter bountied if any of the stuff in this  section applied. Fine. But if you are a 1900 and a 700 gives up against you - what does CBing them for quitting prove? They were hopelessly overmatched anyway - how about some magnanimity in victory? Or are you teaching them a lesson to never bother trying to hit you again? In which case you may lose another player from the BH ranks, and your community shrinks some more.

 

* If you don't wanna risk getting counter bountied, don't bounty hunt. Not many do. Or even have the opportunity now. I wonder how that came about?  If you bounty someone for having done a swift 10 stam clear where the hitter hit every 2 minutes, and didn't give up just cuz he/she lost a few swings or got deflected a few times, then you'll most likely end up on a Wanted Targets list, and get 100 stam cleared by said player from then on. It's just that simple. More bountyboardese - your private unknown and unaccountable regulation system in action. Run for and by you. Great. I am for clarity and consistency - that is its antithesis. And look how that system has stimulated the BB! Oh - wait, it is dead.

 

There are sooo many ways you can hide your gold and protect your xp already, so why make the game even more risk free? I believe my ideas would have made it more risky. Depends on your view point and where you think the baseline of risk is now.

 

And yeah, it's a GAME... nothing to get all upset about.I agree. But games should have rules that allow everyone to compete on an even playing field. That does not exist on the BB, in my opinion. You (the Pvp community,) go silent in the face of my questions, and have done for the entire length of this thread, and I have repeated those questions almost daily for a week. I think we all play to get a bit of relaxation and fun, and to hang out with friends. Some only want to play safe and build up their character, and gain levels etc, and they already have all the tools to do so safely. It doesn't cost much to buy that upgrade.

 

It's impossible to buy an upgrade that makes deflect go away when you want to steal someone's gold, since antideflect really isn't all that efficient. It's impossible to steal all your gold unless the master thief enhancement kicks in, and it does so only on occasion. And, it's impossible to bounty you if you don't hit someone in the first place. If you want a risk free game, don't take risks. Don't carry gold around, and buy that xp protect upgrade or the xp lock upgrade. I agree on what the non-pvp side can and has done to reduce risk. And if nothing changes, those will be the tactics that continue to get used. Gold hits are a great example of the self-defeating nature of pvp in this game. You hit for gold, you steal it, your targets learn to hide the gold, you have lost gold income. You reduce your own income as a result of your initial success. So with the board. You defeat your enemies repeatedly, you punish BH for taking you on, you crush them with counter bounties, you bamboozled them with arcane rules around what is allowable behaviour on the board, and then you wonder why the board is empty and nobody bothers to play anymore - you have driven them out by your very dominance of the form. 

 

I refuse to play a game where interaction with other players isn't important, and this is the one thing where it is VERY important, in FS. Why make the game more antisocial, by removing the need to gather up hitters for a delevelling party? Hmm - we must disagree again - I think that my system would get more people to play. There is no reason you cannot interact with players on the Bb just because the Bh is immune. Delevel parties get counter bountied. Some people have found the cost too high, and that is their choice. Why do i say that? because the BB is dead.

 

Are you prepared to say you do not PvP anymore? If you do you are still hitting and not being bountied. if you are not being bountied it is because the BB is not functioning properly.

 

So, one last time. The board being dead makes these questions relevant.

 

What are PvP players doing in the game? If PvP is dead why do players and PvP guilds persist? Are you hitting or not? If you are hitting - where are the bounties? Could it be you are hitting and not being bountied? Why would that be I wonder? Could it be because the Bb is broken and is not functioning as it is supposed to. If you are not - what have you got to lose by changing the system?

 

NONE of you have ever had the nuts to answer those simple questions. Either you are defending an already dead system you are not participating in (why?), or you are still profiting from the dead BB and don't want to admit it. Unless you can provide a credible third option. Until you do your other answers on this subject are essentially meaningless as you are clearly conflicted and seeking to maintain your self interested advantage.

 

Mzz please understand not that is not a personal attack on you - it is aimed at your entire community. This is my last post on the subject. I do not expect an answer - your community representatives have had many days already to provide one, and have chosen repeatedly to ignore them. That to me, now says it all. The BB is a tool of the Pvp community and you like it how it is just fine. you have won the ability to control it in game and do not want to give up that advantage, even if it means fewer other players participate, because it means you can hit with relative impunity off the board. that is my belief. I have no proof. If I am wrong, and I might well be, and you are not really hitting which is why there are so few bounties, then where is the thrill of the pvp player's life in FS anyway? are you all just loggin in daily in the hope that something will be better, note nothing has changed, and log out again? If so - why do you all defend the status quo so doggedly?

 

No... 

 

- keep the need for socializing. Don't force every bounty hunter to become an unwilling mercenary. delevel parties do not equal socialising. you can talk and chat no matter what format the Bb takes. the hitter and the hit can still chat on the BB if things changed.

- remove deflect from the bounty board. that would speed things up and make them less boring. Deflect is not the reason the Bb is dead though - in my opinion.

- Leave the BB the way it is,sigh just remove the prestige gained on it, and remove the opt-in for the ladder. In short: If the ladder is no longer opt-in, and people gain their points smacking ingame, they shouldn't lose them on the bounty board. If the ladder is hopelessly broken I am open to its removal - and BG is looking at that. The old open system with rating was fine by me - I know the dominamce medal and trading hits for rating was a problem. The original abused medal!

 

 

 

Oh, and cookies... I like cookies. Especially chocolate chip cookies. Yum

 

Lost my trail of thought now.. anyway.... Thank you for reading

 

Thank you for giving me one last chance to state my case.

Okay folks. This is it for me. Davros this will be my last essay on this topic for you to enjoy.

 

Once again I asked Mzz and everyone else on this board the questions that have been repeatedly dodged. Only Maehdros answered them in the slightest and said it could be a combination of poor gold incentives and dwindling numbers (I'm going by memory). Could be true, but I would submit my theory has a lot more detail and shows how the BB could have depopulated itself, and demonstrated the mechanics by which that happened. It also helps to explain why the general community clamoured for more pvp protection over the years, (because the Bb did not help protect them/punish offenders to any reasonable degree) which a simple drop in gold profits on the PvP side does not explain, as if the gold was already well protected and players were managing to hide their gold effectively - why did they still feel the need to ask for PvP protection? I submit it is because they saw the system as unfair and could not escape or punish Pvp players for their actions in game, so sought an entirely new mechanic to be free of Pvp interference. You scared away your playmates again. This is a big reason why I think my theory fits the facts of our shared history a lot better. You can disagree with the narrative as I presented it. It is just an idea. Also : see the North wind and the Sun for gold incentives. They alone will not increase the Pvp game, in my opinion, only make the rest of the game cling harder to their gold. But I'm not against giving it a try.... unless it is shown to drop numbers. Lets do trial runs of simple mechanics changes and have HCS track player activity, gold flow, and reaction and decide how best to proceed on the basis of evidence. Will increased MT increase PVP activity without adversely effecting online numbers? Do a month long trial - and find out.Problem its - it should be advertised in advance to avoid any kind of smasher medal shock to the system - and the response from many players may be to simply buy PvP protection for the length of the trial. That data itself could be instructive of course to HCS. Trials of adjustments makes great sense to me, even if I have just shown how they can be complicated. Also if game numbers have dwindled that does not let PvP players off the hook, as pvp may well have contributed to that drop in numbers. I'm not saying solely responsible - mature games have life cycles - but many online games now have core memberships that do last many years - FS can be one of them, and I would hope have more again. I - like everyone else here, just want to be able to play the game. Nobody can deny at the very least that PvP rules changes especially the legendary smasher medal introduction, have caused numbers to drop in the past. Each side has their pet theory that favours them.

 

Good luck to everyone here, and good luck to HCS in looking for objective data to base their changes on. I'd really like it if you found some, and then, rather than being allowed to be accused of acting out of prejudice for one "side" or another (and we are belatedly all FS players - as I said at the outset of my OP) could simply point to the data, give your reasons and be done.

 

Obviously HCS may not want to share that level of detail. I leave that decision to them.

 

Thank you all again. Fare well.

Edited by Belaric, 12 April 2014 - 15:10.

[DomCorvis]

Okay folks. This is it for me. Davros this will be my last essay on this topic for you to enjoy.
 
Once again I asked Mzz and everyone else on this board the questions that have been repeatedly dodged. Only Maehdros answered them in the slightest and said it could be a combination of poor gold incentives and dwindling numbers (I'm going by memory). Could be true, but I would submit my theory has a lot more detail and shows how the BB could have depopulated itself, and demonstrated the mechanics by which that happened. It also helps to explain why the general community clamoured for more pvp protection over the years, (because the Bb did not help protect them/punish offenders to any reasonable degree) which a simple drop in gold profits on the PvP side does not explain, as if the gold was already well protected and players were managing to hide their gold effectively - why did they still feel the need to ask for PvP protection? I submit it is because they saw the system as unfair and could not escape or punish Pvp players for their actions in game, so sought an entirely new mechanic to be free of Pvp interference. You scared away your playmates again. This is a big reason why I think my theory fits the facts of our shared history a lot better. You can disagree with the narrative as I presented it. It is just an idea. Also : see the North wind and the Sun for gold incentives. They alone will not increase the Pvp game, in my opinion, only make the rest of the game cling harder to their gold. But I'm not against giving it a try.... unless it is shown to drop numbers. Lets do trial runs of simple mechanics changes and have HCS track player activity, gold flow, and reaction and decide how best to proceed on the basis of evidence. Will increased MT increase PVP activity without adversely effecting online numbers? Do a month long trial - and find out.Problem its - it should be advertised in advance to avoid any kind of smasher medal shock to the system - and the response from many players may be to simply buy PvP protection for the length of the trial. That data itself could be instructive of course to HCS. Trials of adjustments makes great sense to me, even if I have just shown how they can be complicated. Also if game numbers have dwindled that does not let PvP players off the hook, as pvp may well have contributed to that drop in numbers. I'm not saying solely responsible - mature games have life cycles - but many online games now have core memberships that do last many years - FS can be one of them, and I would hope have more again. I - like everyone else here, just want to be able to play the game. Nobody can deny at the very least that PvP rules changes especially the legendary smasher medal introduction, have caused numbers to drop in the past. Each side has their pet theory that favours them.
 
Good luck to everyone here, and good luck to HCS in looking for objective data to base their changes on. I'd really like it if you found some, and then, rather than being allowed to be accused of acting out of prejudice for one "side" or another (and we are belatedly all FS players - as I said at the outset of my OP) could simply point to the data, give your reasons and be done.
 
Obviously HCS may not want to share that level of detail. I leave that decision to them.
 
Thank you all again. Fare well.

I'll gladly answer those questions from my stand point
 
1. what am i doing as a PvP player? I gold hit, titan hunt, GvG, and smash for guildmates
 
2. where are the bounties? watch the BB. You'll see PvP'rs pop up there. Some people dont bother bountying. some do. It's always been this way
 
3. Nobody has stated PvP is dead....but have seen a few posts stating it is "Dying". which is a tue/false statement. The #'s are dwindling and activation rates on MT/Thievery is awfully low but PvP still lives just not as prevelant as it once was.
 
4. Why are bounties not being posted? thats really a question for the players not bountying. I do not bounty gold hits(would be kind of hipocritcal of me honestly). As for others i do not know there reasoning, do you?
 
5. why do pvp'rs defend a system that does't promote 300% xp loss for a single hit? because your idea asks for an unreal amount of punishent for an "average" gold hit. If you want more punishment currently you have to talk to friends/guild mates/allies/enemies to try and form a group to punish said player to the maximum extent. Your proposed system removes the need to work together, it allows cowards to smash players thousands of levels below them with no fear of being hit(how many people would you smash for your guild if your system went into effect because now you have NO fear of being hurt because you have said you do NOT pvp off the BB so there for would never be able to be attacked)
 
 
so before you go around calling people nutless maybe you should look into your proposa
l that takes literally all the nuts out of BH'n. because you'll never have to fear being pvp'd(unless you tinkle in somones cheerios in  your pvp range)
 
 
Like my answers or not there they are. I've offered them several times before as well as other options but i guess because im not over level 1k my opinion is null and void

[Necra]

I have made clear arguments. I have not trolled. Nor did I get emotive and start talking about haters with no evidence.

 

Projection in a post - this should be a case study. There - that was trolling.

 

I put my ideas out here and have responded to most posts - I've been pretty flexible. In the face of some rather inflexible thought, if you must know.

 

my points were valid and based on my experience. and instead of trying to work with them  and come up with a fair solution to prevent the possibality of that "loop hole" you shot it down, and dismissed it.. how was your Counter posts constructive. i really respected and liked you inital efforts. but when you failed to work with others input and advice to make sure not another bugged system was implemented, you did all you could to make sure your " system " was unchanged.  there are flaws and ther are holes in it for abuse . you refuse to open your minds eye to it.  ANYONE  READING AN OPEN FORUM can see this and post - (called in reinforcements - you have alot of nerve ).   thus your failure to maintain a constructive *meeting* about creating a positive system.   god forbid there are errors in your long typed idea for a bounty system.  if u cant work well with otherd to edit it to remove and loop holes DONT POST!

[Mzzery]

Okay folks. This is it for me. Davros this will be my last essay on this topic for you to enjoy.

 

Once again I asked Mzz and everyone else on this board the questions that have been repeatedly dodged. Only Maehdros answered them in the slightest and said it could be a combination of poor gold incentives and dwindling numbers (I'm going by memory).

 

 

 

SOrry, I must have missed that question, cuz I answered everything I saw... ?

[Lahona]

(snipped)

 

EDIT: To say gold hits don't happen regularly is a horrible assumption also. I read my guild chat and every hour there is someone showing their gold hit or hits. They're just not being posted by the people who they are hitting.

 

(snipped)

 

Edited by Lahona, 13 April 2014 - 04:14.

[Bunnybee]

How we are affecting the game? When pvp was strong the game was too, and that's a clear fact. You can't blame the decline on us, not when it was changes that overtly favored the other half of the Fallen Sword community that gradually led us here. This is a good game, and it can be again. It was always the people who made it good anyway- people like Necra. 

[Shylark57]

@ Belaric

People gave you very Sound and precise answers and you still have no Clue.... Sad some one at your level and time spent in the game is that way... You blame every thing on PvP players.... Maybe the Blame is not on them but the Levelers that Hold way to much Gold????  But I really can't blame them either... Fact is FS is a PvP based game or why else would it allow attacks on other players???? So now we come to the truth HCS made a really good game..... It allows for different play styles this is one of the better games I have found... It is Complex in some ways but simple in others... It allows for great choices in Gear set ups Buffs..... But stays simple in the way the interface works..... I play another game that allows no real choice in what gear is used.. PvP is Bloody brutal as in a Level 16  player  which is about EoC for that gamer...Can attack a level 1 player and make wounds that need money to be paid for healing..... Gold in that game is equal to $1.25 usd... But then you may not care or even understand.. A topic like yours here may get you so badly beaten you would not be able to even move from one area to another..... So Be happy here.. There you would last about 15 Mins and then you would understand...

[Ryebred]

Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him. ~ Fyodor Dostoevsky

Edited by Ryebred, 14 April 2014 - 01:11.