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Guild XP while sub-leveling


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Poll: Guild XP while sub-leveling (245 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think this idea would work?

  1. Yes. (200 votes [81.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 81.63%

  2. No. (45 votes [18.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.37%

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#261 Belaric

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 18:38

I have not voted.

 

My opinions on this topic are now spread over three threads.

 

This is my perspective on the current proposal based on my experience with my guild, thus it is highly subjective.

 

The proposal as it stands and as I understand it means that if I get to EOC and sublevel on the creature there, my personal XP haul shall decline as it currently does, but the GXP haul shall remain constant, and, as the creatures at EOC give more XP/hit than anyone else, there would be no reason for me now to delevel to gain GXP as simply hitting the EOC mob (or preferably champ if the champ is within a level of EOC) will gain the guild more XP and for much less effort than previously. No trips to BB, no spammed shout outs for free 100 stams, no need to interact with other players in the community, for good or ill.

 

This would really help my guild.

 

Why?

 

We have not delevelled, or rather one guy tried it, but the market was so swamped with people offering free hits and helping to pay for their own bounties that he only lost 20 levels before relevelling, and has not delevelled since.

 

And the only reason he did it is because we are in guild lock and are digging ourselves out.

 

Now - we were knocking on the door of top 25 recently, and were advancing like a rising tide.... with content we would rush forward and almost catch the guild ahead..... then a long gap happened and they would re-establish their lead as we would wait to get more XP as we had the great fortune to have 5 EOC players in our guild, a strength and a weakness in one, for when content arrived we could make huge amounts of GXP, but in times of drought, we stalled, as our lower level guildies, awesome as they are, do not generate near the GXP required to move the needle once you are in the top 50/40/30. Rival guilds with folk between 1200 and 1600 were better off in times of no content. We did not delevel, for many reasons, I don't know my fellow EOC guildies' - mine was laziness - it is work, and I would only do it to gain gold for the guild, rather than XP - ladder position is a long game and I figured we would find our equilibrium somewhere, some day, though 25 or 20 looked doable, and amazing, considering the long road we had taken. Where we are now is awesome! Guild gold balance dwindling in August/September is what almost pushed me to delevel, and obviously not too far as the gold return is poor if you drop too deep, I have been informed.

 

Now, as we did not delevel we were dependent on content. It has arrived, but we are in guild lock as one of our guys wanted to try new things, but with content we have already halved our lock. This proposal helps us, in our particular configuration, of being blessed with 4 EOC or near EOC players, and not having bothered with deleveling before, for in the past we would have to wait for new content to gain GXP and catch the next guild up the ladder, now, if content stalls, we have 4 players who can rack up huge amounts of GXP at will and will thus catch guilds above us who are not as blessed (and there are some), faster. If content continues to come out fast enough that we cannot catch it, well we simply have the advantage of 4 high level players hunting frequently, and that will rock, but if content stalls, our rival guilds will no longer get the chance to pull away, as we will be able to relentlessly pile up GXP if we get near max stam and no new content is in sight. Maybe to top 20, after then I am sure it gets much harder, and ladder domination is not our goal as we are clearly not built for top 10 etc., but I cannot deny it is fun to see the position rise.

 

So this proposed change hands a further advantage to guilds with many EOC or near EOC members in terms of maintaining GXP lead, as there will never be a time when EOC players cannot rack up more GXP earnings than anyone else in the game. That seemed to be a problem for some posters. If that is your primary problem I'd probably want a rethink on this proposed solution.

 

This proposed change, if it makes things more efficient for folk to gain GXP at the coalface of EOC, and it looks like it would, will remove the BB activity - I would imagine. In another post elsewhere I mentioned that efficiency is a God among levellers, make the GXP gaining process more efficient than the current use of the BB and it will be rapidly abandoned.

 

I never cared about this issue. I do not bother with GC and have the FS box switched off - I did not see the spams. This issue was in no way effecting my game play directly. Make this change and my guild, which has not delevelled in any significant sense or benefited from it hugely, will benefit as we will have a new way to gain GXP we did not before. Cool, I suppose. But definition of unintended consequence I feel.

 

Of course, and this has been said before, if content comes out fast enough so no-one can sit at EOC, this rules change will have little effect anyway. [Edit: yes it will for people losing and regaining levels lower down content - I meant in terms of rapidly gaining GXP at EOC, says acronym man!] But few people believe that level of consistent content creation is possible - BG is busting a gut as is - and you rock BG! Can content be maintained at this rate, or faster if required?

 

On the ban AM500 thing - if the content outstrips the number of ruby chests given during globals, AM 500 will not be the problem. If the chests go away as rewards, the globals may be less successful - consider consequences. Or, crazy talk, be prepared to fail to get to ruby on a global if the targets are set high enough - then the mega potions do not come into the game.

 

Also - I ran through the 1825 content first when it was released, and the champ creatures at EOC did not respawn for me under AM500  - I told Grim and he fixed it so they did. So switching off Champ respawn must be pretty easy, as it was a quick fix to switch it back on! Again - do I want to have champs not respawn? No - using them as I level to increase efficiency is a key strategy of mine and most other EOC players. Think about consequences to what you ask. Many of us caught EOC using champs for well over a thousand levels - you make them not respawn and those chasing EOC will literally have a harder job of doing so than the people who are already there - is that fair and is that what you want?

 

THINK about consequences.

 

And that is my personal/guild founder perspective.

 

P.S. the dark conspiracy theorists - "there must be something else these people are after, else why would they do it?" I had similar suspicions and wondered if gold harvesting was at the heart of it all, and asked hoof/BG to comment on gold flows within the game and if they have changed as a result of delevelling - the MP has remained stable, so I assume not - no comment was had by HCS staff. UrcK and leos both pointed out some of the mechanics of gold acquisition, and while some extra gold could be had by switching off SAC 500 as you get close to your VL once more, I can't be sure if anything untoward is happening. As Hoof and BG did not address the gold question, I assume (perhaps dangerously) that it is kosher. Again - I see no way in which this has effected me or the game negatively seeing that MP prices are stable. IF and it is a big IF anyone has profited, I am at the good for them stage - they worked for it!!

 

Sorry for the page long screed.


Edited by Belaric, 10 December 2013 - 19:13.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#262 mickabooth

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 18:38

I think the root of the problem is more why players de-level not how, hence this suggestion :)

from what i can see as a wooden plank trying to look like i know what the heck is being said the reason why players are DE-leveling and re-leveling is

 

1, because they are at end of content getting board so going up and down to find interest

 

2, to gain more guild xp at a fast rate so there guild has an exaggerated inflated  guild Level so they can remain in the top spots

 

and as a bookend looking in on this thread i can see the main issue is the guild EP if players were blocked from gaining G/XP by DE-leveling and then hunting in super high realms to re-gain fast xp   then the issue would not be a problem

 

make it like the leveling block you gain no more guild XP until you regain all your levels the same way you have to re-gain your Xp before you can add more levels to your character

 

Bering in mind this is not only for those at EOC it is being used by all levels of player as for the ones at EOC there needs to be a reduction of all xp both guild and personal until HcS  makes new content . . . this i dont think i will need to worry about at my level


Edited by mickabooth, 10 December 2013 - 18:45.


#263 Windbattle

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 18:49

Yeah - basically we would calculate the xp as normal, work out the guild xp from that, then apply the sub-levelling reduction to the xp you gain.

 

That sounds good Hoof .. because some players have heavily abused this feature. BG originally gave the green light on the sub-leveling / re-leveling to gain guild XP but its completely out of hand right now.

 

As a side note, this has DRAMATICALLY altered the Top 250 guild listing, made the BB look like a joke (since most there want to be smashed), Smasher Medal, Bounty Hunting (at least indirectly), etc.  In terms of fairness, a rework of guild XP should occur and be implemented based on all current numbers, not just going forward. I know this will be wildly unpopular with people that have already devoted stamina to deleveling / releveling AND to those that have gone down 100's of levels to preparation to take advantage of this feature, HOWEVER it is needed to be done. I think this is the bottom line Hoof.

 

No matter what the change is ... your going to lose some people and going to piss off another group of people Hoof. This is an epic failure on your guys parts for not seeing the potential abuse of your own formula for guild XP gain.

 

This new addition would go into effect before the next XP event? Would be great to see the new standings of where people are actually at with PEAK XP as been mentioned on previous threads.

 

I don't understand why you think this is unfair? Can you explain please? :)

 

Hes saying that people that got to use the deleveling trick in the past have a Guild XP lead on other people that didn't get to use that feature going forward.  The gap is rather large and almost insurmountable in many instances.


Edited by Windbattle, 10 December 2013 - 18:59.


#264 RED

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 18:52

This is what's called a temper tantrum.  Isn't this basically the same thing you're accusing the other side of doing?  Funny considering yesterday you were messaging me all about how bad you felt for treating bounty hunters the way you did. You even apologized for the actions of your other guild mate. What changed?  Regardless, you're more then welcome to come join our BH ranks. Of course, randomly 100 stamming people for no reason other then you didn't get your way is silly. At the very least threaten those meanie BH's who dared to not be intimidated by you. But like I told you yesterday, to each his own. 

 

 

I haven't voted on this topic yet. I'm not sure why, but the whole thing leaves a bad taste. It doesn't seem like the issue will be fixed so much as covered with another temp. bandaid. 

I was being sarcastic calista, as it used to be delevel everything in sight......sorry you took it literally.



#265 mizare

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 18:54

Perfect one! Im agree and vote yes! Have a good day/night guys!



#266 RED

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 19:29

lol,,do what you want Hoof...You know where the money comes from.  RED


Here is a good one for you,,,,,I got 21.4 bil gxp in my guild, who wants to give me about 5k fsp and i can sink my guild????


That sounds good Hoof .. because some players have heavily abused this feature. BG originally gave the green light on the sub-leveling / re-leveling to gain guild XP but its completely out of hand right now.

 

As a side note, this has DRAMATICALLY altered the Top 250 guild listing, made the BB look like a joke (since most there want to be smashed), Smasher Medal, Bounty Hunting (at least indirectly), etc.  In terms of fairness, a rework of guild XP should occur and be implemented based on all current numbers, not just going forward. I know this will be wildly unpopular with people that have already devoted stamina to deleveling / releveling AND to those that have gone down 100's of levels to preparation to take advantage of this feature, HOWEVER it is needed to be done. I think this is the bottom line Hoof.

 

No matter what the change is ... your going to lose some people and going to piss off another group of people Hoof. This is an epic failure on your guys parts for not seeing the potential abuse of your own formula for guild XP gain.

 

This new addition would go into effect before the next XP event? Would be great to see the new standings of where people are actually at with PEAK XP as been mentioned on previous threads.

 

 

Hes saying that people that got to use the deleveling trick in the past have a Guild XP lead on other people that didn't get to use that feature going forward.  The gap is rather large and almost insurmountable in many instances.

Just how does maye 10,12 people make anything get out of hand. That statement is completely laughable....



#267 jmaisc

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 19:50

As I said in the other thread I don't think this need to be changed and for sure don't agree that should be done now just before the event and after a lot of players delevelled to use event to gain guild xp. If you want to change it as I said before agree on terms and implement this after event, maybe from January 1st, 2014.

 

Doing it now will be for sure unfair for those that for years have done it and done it this year again expecting to gain xp to their guilds.

 

If this is a concern then why not you take a look into getting guild xp back to players that left and rejoin? All guild xp that they had in guild are lost and guilds only gain the xp block thing but have to recover all xp again? Why not give back to guild what was earned before by a player after he return back to guild?



#268 RED

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 21:52

LOL....Ok, It seems that you guys DO NOT want me to spend my fsp on any of you and MOMMA always said don`t shoot yourself in the foot. Now,  I have said a few sarcastic things, a few things for thought and I also said I was a LEVELER. This being said I do apologize and I hope that when all you guys realize that after all this and as bad as some of you hate us EOC players, that all you have done is voted a way for us to HELP our guilds remain at the top.............. I would like to thank all of you sincerely and also know the extra money i save from DELEVELING CAN GO TOWARDS BUYING MORE STAM TO GET GXP AFTER I STOP LEVELING...A screen shot of my vote,,thanks everybody.

 

http://awesomescreen....com/05b22qh332



#269 Kedyn

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 21:53

As I said in the other thread I don't think this need to be changed and for sure don't agree that should be done now just before the event and after a lot of players delevelled to use event to gain guild xp. If you want to change it as I said before agree on terms and implement this after event, maybe from January 1st, 2014.

 

Doing it now will be for sure unfair for those that for years have done it and done it this year again expecting to gain xp to their guilds.

 

If this is a concern then why not you take a look into getting guild xp back to players that left and rejoin? All guild xp that they had in guild are lost and guilds only gain the xp block thing but have to recover all xp again? Why not give back to guild what was earned before by a player after he return back to guild?

 

I'm not sure how this would really change anything in terms of gaining XP for the guild? They will still relevel, but they will receive less GXP than in the current system because the creature will only be supplying GXP for a level 1800 creature, not for a level 1,000 killing a level 1800 creature. While the change could be material, comparing against an alternative of having to hunt back at the current level you deleveled to vs the proposed solution, it is still beneficial for those who deleveled. 



#270 sweetlou

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 22:19

This whole discussion has been side tracked. The fact remains players will still be able to gain gigantic XP gains off the same Champ IS the problem that is no longer being discussed. The ease with which global uber pots have made this game possible to kill a Champ 100s if not 1000 levels above you needs to be addressed!! The integrity of the simple leveling mechanic is LOST! Let's have a harder game, not a dumbed down version that we are getting.

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#271 jshep74

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 23:23

If the issue is how people delevel? Why not let players submit a request t the support team for a delevel request.  Let's say the player is at  EOC,  just say 1850 and would like to hunt but at that time there is no new content for them.  If the reason they play this game is that they like to hunt/ level than do you punish them because they have reached the end.  I dont think that's fair.  That will cause people to leave the game in my oppinion.  So if someone wants to hunt, let them put in a request to the support team "subject delevel"  and just say I am at level 1850 and would like to hunt, could you reduce my level to 1600 so i can hunt.  The support team could then reduce the players level from 1850 to 1600.  This way it doesn not affect any other medals in the game and the support team is aware.

 

On a similar issue but a possible different solution i was wondering if anyone has suggested a tier level to Fallen Sword. Its just a suggustion, so if people are truely against it then so be it, but I thought I might mention it to see if there is any interest.

 

What i mean is that once a player reaches EOC then they could go to tier 2 of fallen sword.  That is they could start over at level 1, but they would be at tier 2.  This would mean that the creatures "COULD"  be the same but they would be at a 2nd tier level to kill.  So if EOC was 1850.....then a level 1 tier 2 creature would really be like a 1851 level creature.  The creatures levels and XP and possibly names would have to be adjusted but it would be a lot quicker to readjust creature skills and XP than to come out with 1850 new levels. 

 

Of course it would be up to the support team on how they do it but if creature names, levels, and XP were changed maybe even rearrange some the maps from one area to another.  But if players agreed to this that would be 1850 levels that could be "recreated" in a fraction of the time that 10 completely new levels would.  I Suggest a change in names just so we dont have say 3 sets of emmisaries, and it would cause less confusion in the AH.  The creatures could look the same but have a new name.

 

Again, this is just an idea to keep players in the game who are at EOC and want to either continue to hunt/level or contribute XP to thier guild.


Edited by jshep74, 10 December 2013 - 23:26.


#272 yotwehc

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 23:46

This whole discussion has been side tracked. The fact remains players will still be able to gain gigantic XP gains off the same Champ IS the problem that is no longer being discussed. The ease with which global uber pots have made this game possible to kill a Champ 100s if not 1000 levels above you needs to be addressed!! The integrity of the simple leveling mechanic is LOST! Let's have a harder game, not a dumbed down version that we are getting.

A wise man once said:

sweetlou, on 07 Dec 2013 - 14:31, said:
Nobody is saying you can't delevel and relevel!! Content will never come out fast enough for some players, EVER. What you fail to understand is that the complaints are about exploiting the BB, specifically the smasher and bounty medals WHILE sitting on a champ at 100s and 100s of levels higher and using those global pots. If you would delevel and relevel through realms it would be HARDER on you. Doing the extra WORK and EARNING the gxp for your guild again is what your complaint is!! NOBODY is trying to STOP you, players are simply going after easy and profitable bounties( 1 bounty ticket = 1 FSP and very little buffage). So continue deleveling and releveling ALL you want!!!! Just do it without exploiting being on a champ 500+ levels above you and making a joke of the BB in the process. Threats of quitting are always a sign that you know you're exploiting the system!!

 

At least the BB exploitation will be gone... well at least by the levelers.

 

With the cows change, they can sit on a champ a few levels below! yay!



#273 sweetlou

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 23:58

With the cows change, they can sit on a champ a few levels below! yay!

A 'few' levels? What about 100s of levels? Hoof, you know it's wrong!

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#274 Lutrafs

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 00:04

I'm not proposing we nerf anything though. I'm saying we change it so that you don't need to de-level to be able to contribute to your guild xp :)

I still say the only proper way to fix the loophole or exploit is to remove someone from the realm when they are no longer the lvl required to access the realm.

 

Sure you say what if someone is lvling and gains a lvl moves to a new realm then someone hits them and they are booted back to the previous area they were in, simple solution make it so its 2 lvls below and you get booted back to current lvl area.

 

I.E.  If you are lvl 1100 and you gain 1 lvl and move into 1101, then you get hit and lose a lvl you are still in the same realm hitting the same creature with no negative effects.

 

But if you get hit repeatedly (such as on the bounty board) and lose 2 lvls or more you are consequently removed from the area and placed at either a random location in the area of your current AL, or at the stairs back to the next highest lvl.



#275 vamunre

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 00:11

A 'few' levels? What about 100s of levels? Hoof, you know it's wrong!

 

 

I attack creature way higher in level in plenty of other MMORPG's I get lots of XP from those creatures as well. I love to do this more when there is 1.2x or 1.4x or 2x events and then use a XP potion. Kind of like what FS has. the only difference is they dont go to level 1900. but the same thing happens in tons of MMORPG's


also every one keep talking about getting telaported to a realm if you get deleveled, that doesn't happen any any MMORPG I have ever player. as long as I don't leave I can stay there


Edited by vamunre, 11 December 2013 - 00:08.


#276 Hoofmaster

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 00:13

Thank you to every one who voted and gave feedback on this. The poll is showing over 80% of players who voted on this approve of the change so we are going to go ahead and implement it later this week.

 

Shortly after this change, we are also going to implement improvements to Hell Forging which we have been discussing here.

 

- Hoof




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