167 replies to this topic

[evilbry]

Make PvP protection free, and then that's a valid argument - but ..

1. That will never happen (although Hoof did promise sometime ago to dramatically reduce the costs)

Protection has already been drastically reduced from what it initially was.

Agreed - it was a ludicrous price when it was first introduced, but a lot of folk feel it's still too expensive.

As long as there is a cost, which is not free, there will still be a lot of folk who feel it's too expensive.

[yotekiller]

there is always the option to buy PvP Protection just as they have the option to opt out of the PvP Ladder and not attack other players and avoid a bounty being placed on them.

Just to play devil's advocate a little here but what if the leveler's proposed changing the pvp system to make pvp'ers BUY the right to hit other players off the ladder and BB? After all, you take gold from other players when you hit them (although it's a pitifully small percentage) so certainly the pvp'ers could pay for the right to hit others with the gold they steal, right? Isn't payment one way just as fair as payment the other way? It may sound crazy to some but I bet the idea would get a lot of support from the levelers of the game if it was seriously proposed and promoted.
Now that I'm done playing devil's advocate I will say this, the pvp part of the game needs improvement but I don't think this is it. There will always be a division between levelers and pvp'ers and both sides will never be totally happy at the same time. The difficulty is finding the right balance to keep the grumbling from both sides to a minimum. There was a huge outcry from the levelers when the Smasher Medal was first introduced because many felt they were unfairly targeted. This left a large segment of the game population very unhappy so the cows quickly restricted the medal to ladder and board hits which means pvp'ers are now forced to get their smasher medal on the backs of other pvp'ers. Whatever else is wrong with pvp, restricting the Smasher Medal satisfies the most people so it should remain that way.

[Maehdros]

Just to play devil's advocate a little here but what if the leveler's proposed changing the pvp system to make pvp'ers BUY the right to hit other players off the ladder and BB? After all, you take gold from other players when you hit them (although it's a pitifully small percentage) so certainly the pvp'ers could pay for the right to hit others with the gold they steal, right? Isn't payment one way just as fair as payment the other way? It may sound crazy to some but I bet the idea would get a lot of support from the levelers of the game if it was seriously proposed and promoted.

The gold sunk during pvp combat could be viewed as *paying* to hit someone. As not all the gold stolen goes to the pvp'r. Just had to address that. As for the subject at hand:

There was a huge outcry from the levelers when the Smasher Medal was first introduced because many felt they were unfairly targeted. This left a large segment of the game population very unhappy so the cows quickly restricted the medal to ladder and board hits which means pvp'ers are now forced to get their smasher medal on the backs of other pvp'ers. Whatever else is wrong with pvp, restricting the Smasher Medal satisfies the most people so it should remain that way.

Also Keep in mind tho, that the system has changed since the medal was first introduced. From my perspective I've understood a main issue was the *free* hits from the bounty board by a bountied player, and being repeatedly hit off the board while only having the option to bounty once. This has since been changed to every hit = a possible bounty.

Bounty tickets cost less, meaning many more players wish to dabble or try their hand at bounty hunting, and many players have complained there are few to zero bounties to clear anymore. I would hazard a guess that more players would be posted, and hit/ smashed more frequently.


There's two sides to every coin, but its obvious by looking at the bounty board that pvp is dwindling, and needs some vitality instilled again. There's many ways to deter, avoid, or remove one's self from pvp.The system has recently changed for the better of levelers. I don't see an issue with changing the medal back. Give and take, right? At least I hope

[JBKing89]

Thought we already been through this and in game polls showed a majority were against the smasher medal counting toward all PVP attacks.

[Maehdros]

Thought we already been through this and in game polls showed a majority were against the smasher medal counting toward all PVP attacks.

The pvp System has been drastically changed since the medal was first released, hence I made this poll

[KitiaraLi]

I voted yes for obvious reasons (for those who don't know why it's obvious -> viewtopic.php?f=1&t=104554 )

The day the cows changed the medal to be a weird bounty hunter medal addition, and a bonus medal for playing the ladder, was the day I seriously started losing faith in the ways the cows run this game.
After years of fighting for this (yes we had runs for something similar to the smasher medal b4) we finally got it... a few cried loudly over the risk of getting hit more often (was it once a week initially?) and the cows listened, and changed it from being a PvP medal into the twisted ladder/bounty hunter medal it is today :cry:

Change it back my dear cows. With changes like the one you made to the smasher medal you are only helping feeding the anti-pvp trolls.

Thought we already been through this and in game polls showed a majority were against the smasher medal counting toward all PVP attacks.

As I recall, the vote was up for a short time, and yes it did show a majority of ppl who either didn't like being hit (doh) and a majority of ppl who didn't care, or understand what the vote was about.... which is only logical as that is the game community we have :roll: It was however not a massive majority, which is by far more interesting that the majority being present, since it shows there are ppl playing the game as levelers only who actually can see beyond their own side of the fence.

[Chazz224]

100% yes ... From this forum to the eyes and ears of HCS ... This would be a great change and I agree would help bring some more life to the game !!!

[demon42693]

There was a huge outcry from the levelers when the Smasher Medal was first introduced because many felt they were unfairly targeted.

Assuming that is why the medal was changed, my question would be, How are levelers "unfairly targeted" when anyone can be attacked at any time and for any reason? PvP is PvP regardless of the target. Levelers do not lose any more or less experience or gold than a PvPer.

[4gottn4ver]

Thought we already been through this and in game polls showed a majority were against the smasher medal counting toward all PVP attacks.

an that was back when all attacks made on a single target even being posted by the target could only post the pvp'er once. they could only post 1 attack per bounty even if it was multiple attacks they only got to post the attacker once and when posted they could not post any further attacks while target was posted.

now it is possible to post more then once on/ off BB attacks by same target on same pvp'er if multiple attacks were made. so like this topic started out an as Maehdros said has changed alot since this last change to pvp/ BB was made since smasher medal was brought out.

when the smasher medal 1st came out the BB came alive with up to like 8pages of posted bounties an now many times is a ghost town for some hrs with none posted.

[JBKing89]

a few cried loudly over the risk of getting hit more often ......

I'm not sure how crying is defined in the forums, but if you mean people speaking their disagreement with the original smasher medal, it was more than "a few".

As I recall, the vote was up for a short time, and yes it did show a majority of ppl who either didn't like being hit (doh) and a majority of ppl who didn't care, or understand what the vote was about....

How does a poll show people didn't understand the question? You can't assume that just because you didn't like the result.

[KitiaraLi]

a few cried loudly over the risk of getting hit more often ......

I'm not sure how crying is defined in the forums, but if you mean people speaking their disagreement with the original smasher medal, it was more than "a few".

A very few spoke up on forum after the medal was introduced (find the thread yourself, I can't be bothered) but a few was very outspoken about the whole ordeal "behind the scenes" so to speak...

As I recall, the vote was up for a short time, and yes it did show a majority of ppl who either didn't like being hit (doh) and a majority of ppl who didn't care, or understand what the vote was about....

How does a poll show people didn't understand the question? You can't assume that just because you didn't like the result.

That is a not so simple study in psychology/behaviorism. When presented with the options "Keep as is", "Change into" but missing the third option; "Don't care" many will feel compelled to put in their vote, but will have to pick a choice they do not fully understand. And as long as I keep getting frequent (weekly) questions about how this n that works in this game, even from ppl who have crossed the lvl200 barrier, I will maintain that there are players who have a lack of understanding basic fundamental game mechanics, and hence will vote based on whatever their guild mates and/or friends tell 'em to vote.
I am not assuming anything, and have not complained about the result. My reason for concern is how the cows took a knee to appease a few select players who had gotten hit a few times and couldn't be bothered to buy the PvP protection. Players who clearly didn't read the game description when they signed up.

[MummRa]

100% YES! It is a PvP medal after all, and all PvP attacks with 100 stamina should count towards earning the medal. If players do not wish to be attacked as a result of the change, there is always the option to buy PvP Protection just as they have the option to opt out of the PvP Ladder and not attack other players and avoid a bounty being placed on them.

The reason I am bring up ways to avoid being attacked is because that seems to be the main if not, only point of contention when it comes to the changes to the PvP medal. If there are ways to protect yourself, there is no reason to not make the changes that Maehdros is proposing. If players choose not to protect themselves, then they have no grounds, that I can see, to complain about the changes.

Haven't gotten past this point yea but just need to reply. Not saying I don't think it should be changed back but it does irk me when people say that you can just pay for protection. In essence you are saying I should pay to enjoy the game the way I want because you enjoy it differently?

But a possible solution what If there was a way to reduce the cost of protection even further. For example: let's say there is an upgrade to character for protection let's say 10 fsp for protection of Gold or XP or 25 for both. But- the actual protection costs gold that gets deducted from your bank hourly. If you don't have enough gold to cover the cost you don't have the protection.

[Undjuvion]

how people protect themselves from pvp in most cases are a) dont hold a lot of gold buy pvp protection c) dont run ya mouth , with these few things kept in mind what if the off the board 100 stam smasher hits only counted on players holding over eg 750 times their level in gold, people could still protect themselves in the same ways and most likely if your holding a lot of gold the thieves in your range would take a swing if they saw it anyway.

theoretically someone with a couple of accounts could cheat and avoid a lot of deleveling but they would need to dedicate a lot of time and gold this way and if they had a few accounts they could probably manipulate the BB and get the medal quicker and cheaper anyway.

just a thought, im sure someone has a downside waiting to happen.

[athdenald]

a few cried loudly over the risk of getting hit more often ......

I'm not sure how crying is defined in the forums, but if you mean people speaking their disagreement with the original smasher medal, it was more than "a few".

As I recall, the vote was up for a short time, and yes it did show a majority of ppl who either didn't like being hit (doh) and a majority of ppl who didn't care, or understand what the vote was about....

How does a poll show people didn't understand the question? You can't assume that just because you didn't like the result.

Why not? You're assuming that people did understand the question are you not?

On topic, I voted yes. It was great to see the BB alive and I'm with the many people that wonder why it was ever changed in the first place, just 36 hours after being introduced.

[Bleltch]

Yes vote from me. My guestimate on them changing it: not very likely. The general trend has been to make pvping less desirable, i dont see em turning around on that.

[JBKing89]

A very few spoke up on forum after the medal was introduced (find the thread yourself, I can't be bothered) but a few was very outspoken about the whole ordeal "behind the scenes" so to speak...

I can be bothered rather than assume what someone says is totally correct.... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106217&hilit=smasher ... If you take time to look over that thread, there are a lot of people on both sides of the issue. I'm just saying, "a few" inaccurately describes either side. The point is, PvP is always a heated debate with the PvPers on one side, levelers on the other. There is never just a "few" on either side.

"behind the scenes"? lol, I'm sure there were/are more than a few PvPers who are outspoken about the medal changes "behind the scenes" as well. I don't even know what that is supposed to mean.

[3JS]

Levelers in this game should be able to have retribution from getting randomly attacked because someone is going after a PvP medal. Oh wait - they do, it's the bounty board. The rules of the smasher medal were changed because of levelers after just a few hours. Now that all these new changes have been made, it should be changed back.

The people who classify themselves as levelers need to step back for a second and take a look at the big picture. The bounty board is constantly dead. The ladder has 3-4 players in a 100 level range. Even the PvP arena is on life support. If all the PvP aspects of the game go the way of the dodo, what do you think will be left for the levelers, besides complaining that you're at EOC without content?

Instead of hating on PvP all the time, how about you embrace the possibility that without PvP activities this game is dead and buried?

[JBKing89]

yes - the bounty board is a great way to get back at someone attacking you and causing you to lose XP and gold...... let's see, you pay gold to buy bounty tickets, offer gold/fsp for the bounty, and then frequently get to see a person take a bounty on their friend. Only to see that same person attack you again in 7 days.

Let's think about new players joining, getting hit with 100 stamina, losing gold and xp, and their option is the above "retribution", or they can buy pvp protection (once the initial wears off), live with it, or maybe think "what's the point of playing this game anyway".

My whole point in responding to this thread was to get here.... This issue has already been addressed, and yes, there has been "a few" changes to PvP since the smasher medal was introduced, but we need to be concerned with getting new players and retaining current ones. Not reacting to every thread with a major change to the game.

That is my fear with HCS - they see a thread, with some very vocal posters, and they make a major change to FS that the majority of players disagree with.

[JBKing89]

And I'll add that a forum poll is the least accurate way to judge player's opinions.

For one, some players don't even know the forum exists, and some won't post either, for various reasons.

Two, those that post frequently, are generally higher levels that are very comfortable with the way they play the game. To listen to only these players, we ignore the new players that don't know about the forum, or won't post.

[Maehdros]

we need to be concerned with getting new players and retaining current ones. Not reacting to every thread with a major change to the game.

Then possibly you could make a thread with suggestions for improvement to the game and how to retain/gain new players. As this thread is not about that subject.


The pvp system was drastically changed to favour the leveling side of the game, hence the smasher should be changed to its original form for the pvp side.