How about more lvls to hunt instead?
Content is seperate to code changes - two seperate teams.
Soldier & Purist
Started by Hoofmaster, Dec 08 2008 22:51
164 replies to this topic
#21
Hoofmaster
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:04
Content is seperate to code changes - two seperate teams.
#22
ss_roojrotc
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:05
good pointGuns in general.
I feel there should be no durability loss from firing a gun, as you are buying ammunition what is the point of the gun losing durability, a few examples of games that follow this principle would be World of warcraft, and everquest.
I'm pretty sure if I swung my sword everytime you shot your gun(and you didn't do maintenance on it), my sword would last longer.
#23
ss_militia
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:05
yes, but if every time you swung your sword and it hit metal armor, or another weapon everntually the blade would dull, while my gun would continue to fire just fine, since nothing is hitting it.
and when i listed wow and everquest i was referring to bows and or crossbows.
and when i listed wow and everquest i was referring to bows and or crossbows.
#24
ss_bagavond
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:07
I like the idea of stacking a whole lot. Would be nicer if the ammo held more shots..... more damage would be good but at this point any tweaking would make this soldier happy.
#25
ss_roojrotc
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:07
did anyone make note of my first post?
#26
comesons
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:08
Um guns have durability too...
#27
ss_mooserat
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:09
Ranged weapons could be made for all classes, with the same ammo that the soldier uses. I can see a hardwired pistol for cyborgs or a needle spitting mutant.
What's the stackable limit for the items? Will it be 99 or 9,999 rounds? I imagine there will be a cap on ammo amounts.
Perhaps soldiers could have a skill that allows them to refill empty mags. Or something to that effect. That's similar to the Psi creation of ammo.
The difference in damage can't be too great because stamina cost is the same. ie. It shouldn't take 1 shot for a soldier but 2 for a mutant just because of class difference. Unless that alternates with mobs. Otherwise everyone will end up choosing the class that is the most xp/stam.
Repair costs could change. eg. Perhaps soldiers could repair their guns, class skill.
What's the stackable limit for the items? Will it be 99 or 9,999 rounds? I imagine there will be a cap on ammo amounts.
Perhaps soldiers could have a skill that allows them to refill empty mags. Or something to that effect. That's similar to the Psi creation of ammo.
The difference in damage can't be too great because stamina cost is the same. ie. It shouldn't take 1 shot for a soldier but 2 for a mutant just because of class difference. Unless that alternates with mobs. Otherwise everyone will end up choosing the class that is the most xp/stam.
Repair costs could change. eg. Perhaps soldiers could repair their guns, class skill.
#28
ss_jackyl
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:10
Speaking as a purist, I'd be okay with the situation if mind shards weren't destroyed when emptied. then it would be a matter of using psi to (maybe, based on skill points) fill one. As is, I was debating a skills reset and going to mutant since I decided not to use ammo weapons for the reasons enumerated by many others.
The gold sink for buying one isn't that big of a loss (5 per, but noody is probably buying them now anyway).
The gold sink for buying one isn't that big of a loss (5 per, but noody is probably buying them now anyway).
#29
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:10
Mooserat - I was thinking along the lines of between 5 and 10 for a stackable limit.
#30
ss_ottomadik
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:11
Wait!!?? Soldier ammo is stackable? Anyway right now I see my overall game play as a soldier is that I can't hunt too far away from a heal station because i dont have enough adren at the beginning of a session to ensure that I can heal myself. Once I do, I have to balance how much ammo I have with how much healing I can do with how many BP slots I have so I can get valuable drops. Yeah, I have to upgrade, and no, I dont get to add much in the way of ammo. Yes, ammo kills a little bit quicker, but the ammo takes up a lot of valuable space. Ammo HAS to stack in order for utilization of a pistol or rifle to be viable. Since it isn't stacking right now, I have to use a melee weapon when hunting for drops to save on room in the BP. This is an obvious disadvantage for any class based on firearms. I like the idea of more shots per clip and stacking. I realize that having to buy ammo is a huge drain on my bank account, but even more so is the lack of available space.
When choosing a class, under Soldier the mouse-over said 'easy', but as it is, the ability to manage a BP and drops is nowhere near as easy as you, the developer, may have thought. I picked Soldier not for its being labeled as easy, but because I am a Desert Storm Veteran, with that in mind can we look forward to stackable ammo and / or more rounds of ammo per magazine, sometime soon?
When choosing a class, under Soldier the mouse-over said 'easy', but as it is, the ability to manage a BP and drops is nowhere near as easy as you, the developer, may have thought. I picked Soldier not for its being labeled as easy, but because I am a Desert Storm Veteran, with that in mind can we look forward to stackable ammo and / or more rounds of ammo per magazine, sometime soon?
#31
ss_flava
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:12
To me there is a significant difference between Blade Weapons and Ammo requiring Weapons. Being a Purist, i have found no class item to be worth its salt, to me both the quantity of storable ammo , and damage dealt by the ammo needs increasing... who wants to waste even more stamina trotting backwards and forwards to reload with a weapon that deals the same amount as a blade ? Yes please make it so all classes can carry more ammo (stackable) and so that the damage dealt is more...
:-)
:-)
#32
ss_speedman
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:12
Since I'm a Cyborg, it's hard for me to say what would be best for a purist or soldier, but still as a cyborg, I feel the problem with ammo. I might not use now a rifle, but I could do it in the future, so slightly this problem concerns me.
-Firstly, a solution would be to remove ammo
yeah.. would be radical, but then with no ammo problems, everyone goes with their play, and the weapons could go balanced from every class.
-A second solution, would be the stackable ammo, but that doesn't solves the cost of ammo, which in this case, will go higher by the level. This brings me back to the link with cyborgs. We have a class buff called "Overload" , which uses a full ammo clip for 1 attack (not combat).. this means you could stock all your bp with ammo, and by the time you make 5 steps from the shop, you find yourself without ammo. And if the prices keep growing like that, 1 hit could cost us expensively!
-How to solve this ? Increase max rounds for a clip and lower costs. There is no point in increasing the ammo cost while they don't do any damage.. you need to have a weapon to use that ammo. Clips could be increased with 2x or 3x of the current value, and the price lowered by 30%. (This should keep the soldier class happy
)
now , about that "overload" buff, I suggest not using a whole clip, but 5 or 10 rounds, or 10% of your clip. Like burst attacks on real rifles. That should be a normal value.
As for purists, I don't know how their ammo creation works, but for some1 who uses his mind to attack, I don't see the need of ammo.. just my 2 cent about this
-Firstly, a solution would be to remove ammo
yeah.. would be radical, but then with no ammo problems, everyone goes with their play, and the weapons could go balanced from every class.-A second solution, would be the stackable ammo, but that doesn't solves the cost of ammo, which in this case, will go higher by the level. This brings me back to the link with cyborgs. We have a class buff called "Overload" , which uses a full ammo clip for 1 attack (not combat).. this means you could stock all your bp with ammo, and by the time you make 5 steps from the shop, you find yourself without ammo. And if the prices keep growing like that, 1 hit could cost us expensively!
-How to solve this ? Increase max rounds for a clip and lower costs. There is no point in increasing the ammo cost while they don't do any damage.. you need to have a weapon to use that ammo. Clips could be increased with 2x or 3x of the current value, and the price lowered by 30%. (This should keep the soldier class happy
)now , about that "overload" buff, I suggest not using a whole clip, but 5 or 10 rounds, or 10% of your clip. Like burst attacks on real rifles. That should be a normal value.
As for purists, I don't know how their ammo creation works, but for some1 who uses his mind to attack, I don't see the need of ammo.. just my 2 cent about this
#33
ss_vigali
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:14
good pointGuns in general.
I feel there should be no durability loss from firing a gun, as you are buying ammunition what is the point of the gun losing durability, a few examples of games that follow this principle would be World of warcraft, and everquest.
I'm pretty sure if I swung my sword everytime you shot your gun(and you didn't do maintenance on it), my sword would last longer.
Guns require maintenance, but swords (and all bladed weaponry) require constant sharpening. Like the other guy said, if you swung your sword at someone wearing metal armor, it would become dull extremely quickly. Try it with a knife at home -- swing a butcher's knife against the concrete outside your house 10 times, and see if it wants to cut anything when you get back in the house. It won't -- you just turned your butcher's knife into a glorified club.
#34
ss_militia
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:15
Guns require maintenance, but swords (and all bladed weaponry) require constant sharpening. Like the other guy said, if you swung your sword at someone wearing metal armor, it would become dull extremely quickly. Try it with a knife at home -- swing a butcher's knife against the concrete outside your house 10 times, and see if it wants to cut anything when you get back in the house. It won't -- you just turned your butcher's knife into a glorified club.[/quote]
i like this guy...
i like this guy...
#35
ss_palyon
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:17
How about more lvls to hunt instead?
Content is seperate to code changes - two seperate teams.
I picked soldier because I'm a huge Starcraft fan. But I'm finding no particular benefit as it has not been cost-effective (buying new ammo) or time effective (repair and time spent buying new ammo and returning to hunting grounds, reloading). I've tried to stick with hand-to-hand weapons.
I can't put on a mutant hand or a cyborg attachment. With weapons, what is the niche of the Soldier if all the rules are shared with the Purists?
I do feel a soldier should have more punch because he/she deals in raw force, whereas the purist seems to focus on finesse. I don't mind the cost of weapons. It seems carrying tons of ammo should be SOP for a soldier. I feel like a little kid reloading my bee-bee gun every few rounds.
#36
ss_treeline
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:18
Guns require maintenance, but swords (and all bladed weaponry) require constant sharpening. Like the other guy said, if you swung your sword at someone wearing metal armor, it would become dull extremely quickly. Try it with a knife at home -- swing a butcher's knife against the concrete outside your house 10 times, and see if it wants to cut anything when you get back in the house. It won't -- you just turned your butcher's knife into a glorified club.
On the other hand the US cival war cavelry saber was never sharpened only polished and it could still take someone's arm off. There was no need for an edge since armor was given up by that time and the weight of the steel alone was enough to do serious damage.
But that is besides the point I suppose lol
#37
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:18
Come on folks. The thing here is to get game balance and THEN get the cover story correct. I think the durability would be for the non-weapon pieces. It makes little sense that my pants and hat get dirty when I pick off an opponent from a distance with a rifle.
A change to this function (maybe lower the chance of damage on non-weapon items by 25-50%) would compensate for the cost of ammo.
The stacking would fix the bp issue.
Somehow not having to reload (or having a buff that gave us a very high chance to auto-reload? Not a level 400 buff please?) would fix the rest of the imbalance.
Equivalent issues with purists could be dealt with similarly.
A change to this function (maybe lower the chance of damage on non-weapon items by 25-50%) would compensate for the cost of ammo.
The stacking would fix the bp issue.
Somehow not having to reload (or having a buff that gave us a very high chance to auto-reload? Not a level 400 buff please?) would fix the rest of the imbalance.
Equivalent issues with purists could be dealt with similarly.
#38
ss_mooserat
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:18
Hoofmaster
You mean 5 to 10 magazines? From what I've seen that's about 75 to 150 rounds, right?
I think what the guy posted about PSI not having ammo makes sense. Perhaps their skill could be changed make their next attack do more damage as opposed to making ammo. Then drop their normal attack/damage items down to where the mutant and cyborgs are.
Have we even helped? Seems like some ideas mixed in with a lot of jokes.
You mean 5 to 10 magazines? From what I've seen that's about 75 to 150 rounds, right?
I think what the guy posted about PSI not having ammo makes sense. Perhaps their skill could be changed make their next attack do more damage as opposed to making ammo. Then drop their normal attack/damage items down to where the mutant and cyborgs are.
Have we even helped? Seems like some ideas mixed in with a lot of jokes.
#39
ss_kigga
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:19
Also, by stackable, does that mean that they pretty much form one clip so that you don't have to waste energy reloading?
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#40
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:21
Come on folks. The thing here is to get game balance and THEN get the cover story correct. I think the durability would be for the non-weapon pieces. It makes little sense that my pants and hat get dirty when I pick off an opponent from a distance with a rifle.
A change to this function (maybe lower the chance of damage on non-weapon items by 25-50%) would compensate for the cost of ammo.
The stacking would fix the bp issue.
Somehow not having to reload (or having a buff that gave us a very high chance to auto-reload? Not a level 400 buff please?) would fix the rest of the imbalance.
Equivalent issues with purists could be dealt with similarly.
The durability function bonus would ONLY kick in if you 1-hit with long range weapon....
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