51 replies to this topic

[Pardoux]

Caves will not be scrapped. We've said this repeatedly.

 

Additionally, I do not see us putting a third cave in specifically for the LEs. They have a much higher drop rate than the Realm LEs to compensate for the difficulty of finding them. Can people have a lousy run of luck? Sure. Same can happen in Realm LE events too, where the drop rate is much worse.

 

There's a BIG difference between the caves and a realm event tho ...

 

In a realm event, you are hitting the same creature EVERY time

 

In a cave event, you take pot luck as to what you hit - only hitting the target creature 5-10% of the time in my experience before the (still low) drop rate factors.

 

Barathor has a drop rate of 0.75%, Ira Heketoro has drop rate of 0.75%

 

Griffs has a 0.5% chance, Shroud Shadow Blade has 0.5%, Zorgrom Back Stabba has 0.5%, She Who Walks The Rows has 0.5%

 

So, a 0.25% increased chance of a drop (or, 50% better chance if you want to put it that way LOL) doesn't, IMO, compensate for seeing the critter 5% or 10% of the time - especially when an attempt to find Barathor costs 45K each time.

 

But, 'tis your game - my suggestion seems to be pretty popular - almost 2/3 voters want a change - either by increasing the odds of FINDING the target LE in an event, or by putting special critters into a 3rd cave

Edited by Pardoux, 09 July 2014 - 11:35.

[Davros81]

You're right it is his game, and it is his decision furthermore he has made his decision. I was surprised this topic was not locked after said decision with explanation was given by BigGrim...

[BigGrim]

I'm always open to feedback and I shot down scrapping the caves and said I did not see a third cave being added. No need to lock it if good feedback can come of players reading my reasoning.

[j3k]

as said before in my just amp the spawn rate for LE 

no need for an "extra" cave

 

and maybe down fall the drop rate so two normal caves but the rate of it spawning is higher but the drop is lower 

So option "B" would be best during the event since i see and hear people complaining about how they spent 15M+ only to get one drop from it   

 

i myself only spent 3M no drop   didn't care too much just wanted some sets for profit   

Edited by j3k, 09 July 2014 - 15:30.

[Gutie]

Well still would be nice to have roaming LE events more often. If we even had one LE roaming each week it'd be a huge improvement of now. Just don't make an absurd amount of them per realm they're based out of like Chompers. (Make them a still good drop rate, but not as many of them, so those of us with a lot of stam can't abuse it too badly by popping on a 1250 LF.)

 

Better yet, add some more NEW LEs to the game! If you can't think up an idea, why not ask for our input if you are having a hard time thinking up something that would be interesting? I'm sure some of us have LOTS of ideas. *hint hint*

[WWWolf]

Grim, any chance in getting a buff that will make LE creatures more likely to appear during an event?

[sohail94]

 

Barathor has a drop rate of 0.75%, Ira Heketoro has drop rate of 0.75%

 

Griffs has a 0.5% chance, Shroud Shadow Blade has 0.5%, Zorgrom Back Stabba has 0.5%, She Who Walks The Rows has 0.5%

 

So, a 0.25% increased chance of a drop (or, 50% better chance if you want to put it that way LOL) doesn't, IMO, compensate for seeing the critter 5% or 10% of the time - especially when an attempt to find Barathor costs 45K each time.

 

The drop rates in the guide are realm drop rates (I assume), if you look at all the 0.5% drop rates you'll see that the creature drops 3 items compared to the 2 item drops with 0.75% drop rates, all LE creatures seem to have a total drop rate of 1.5% regardless of whether they're realm or scavenging.

 

If the cave drop rate was as quoted in guide for barathor (1.5%) , with FI1150 

at 5% chance of appearing : 620 scavenges @45k = 27,900,000gold to land just ONE drop

at 10% chance of appearing : 310 scavenges @45k = 13,950,000gold to land just ONE drop

(I apologise if I have worked out anything incorrectly)

 

Would like to know from those who scavenged how much they spent per drop.

 

Now l know the chance of appearing will vary considerably but it's safe to say on average it is still very low. 

This leads to the conclusion that the drop rate in caves is at least 2x what it would be in realms as Barathor items certainly aren't selling for 73-146 fsp/piece.

 

 

The issue we have as you say in your thread is we are fed up with not seeing the LEs as often as we want, the only way to fix that would be either a separate cave with LEs or remove the 'unwanted' creatures, I'm sure the caves were de cluttered not so long ago so I can't see what the cows can further remove.

 

I would suggest that instead of adding a new cave it would be a lot easier for grim to either lower the cost to find high level creatures  or to increase the drop rate for any creature which costs a lot to scavenge (25k or more ?), at the end of the day no body scavenges just to see a creature (plague quest excluded), we want drops and increasing the drop rate for costly creatures seems the best option for me.

Edited by sohail94, 09 July 2014 - 20:36.

[Pardoux]

The drop rates in the guide are realm drop rates (I assume), if you look at all the 0.5% drop rates you'll see that the creature drops 3 items compared to the 2 item drops with 0.75% drop rates, all LE creatures seem to have a total drop rate of 1.5% regardless of whether they're realm or scavenging.

 

The drop rates are quoted from the UFSG and are their actual drop rates - the first 4 critters (with the resource drop and recipes) only appear in the realms and Barathor / Ira Heketoro are caves ONLY critters  ...

[BraveKath]

I'm always open to feedback and I shot down scrapping the caves and said I did not see a third cave being added. No need to lock it if good feedback can come of players reading my reasoning.

<3 Being open to feedback and ideas is awesome. Agreeing all the time isn't required, but intelligent consideration is such a great thing to read from you & all developers by a player.

While I'm not putting forth ideas here, it's sure nice to read that statement from you Grim, even though I know it.

[Filletminion]

Caves will not be scrapped. We've said this repeatedly.

 

Additionally, I do not see us putting a third cave in specifically for the LEs. They have a much higher drop rate than the Realm LEs to compensate for the difficulty of finding them. Can people have a lousy run of luck? Sure. Same can happen in Realm LE events too, where the drop rate is much worse.

I would not spend a single cent in the caves because of how it works,in the realms however I can kill what I choose and I will take my luck with drops,You intend the Cave to be a gold sink but its no longer working as intended.

[kalish]

If you scavenge enough, the Law of Large Numbers starts to take effect. It doesn't really matter how many times you see the LE creature you're looking for, what really matters is how many drops you get per scavenge.

 

In the end you're not talking math, just psychology. If you saw the LE creatures 10 times as often but they had 1/10 of the current drop rate, you'd get the same number of drops per scavenge, but it sounds like you'd feel better.

 

However it would hurt you, because more LE appearances mean less of the other creatures. Those other creatures can have valuable drops too.

[Pardoux]

If you scavenge enough, the Law of Large Numbers starts to take effect. It doesn't really matter how many times you see the LE creature you're looking for, what really matters is how many drops you get per scavenge.

 

In the end you're not talking math, just psychology. If you saw the LE creatures 10 times as often but they had 1/10 of the current drop rate, you'd get the same number of drops per scavenge, but it sounds like you'd feel better.

 

However it would hurt you, because more LE appearances mean less of the other creatures. Those other creatures can have valuable drops too.

 

I'm referring to when the specials are around - for "normal" scavenging (which is cheaper) then getting all the other stuff - well, most of the other stuff - is fine. I just begrudge paying a "premium" rate to scavenge for the LE stuff and only actually SEEING it between 5% and 10% of my attempts. Seems almost 2/3 votes agree with me too

[Filletminion]

If you scavenge enough, the Law of Large Numbers starts to take effect. It doesn't really matter how many times you see the LE creature you're looking for, what really matters is how many drops you get per scavenge.

 

In the end you're not talking math, just psychology. If you saw the LE creatures 10 times as often but they had 1/10 of the current drop rate, you'd get the same number of drops per scavenge, but it sounds like you'd feel better.

 

However it would hurt you, because more LE appearances mean less of the other creatures. Those other creatures can have valuable drops too.

No in the end while there may not be any drop frequency difference there is a significant cost difference and it is that cost difference which stops players from scavenging.

[yghorbeviahn]

For me only 3 scenarios exists:

1 - Small quantity of investment with terrible luck = None profit make.

2 - Small investment with good luck = Profit make (not much anyway).

3 - Great investment with regular luck = Profit 100% sure.

But the third option is determined for how much BP/FSPs you have to invest, I should say at least 150-300 BP and 300+ FSPs.

[sohail94]

The drop rates are quoted from the UFSG and are their actual drop rates - the first 4 critters (with the resource drop and recipes) only appear in the realms and Barathor / Ira Heketoro are caves ONLY critters  ...

I think you've missed the point, for all LEs the guide quotes the total drop rate as 1.5% for legendary drops regardless of whether they appear in caves or realms, how do you explain Illuyanka, Heartwood, Vengeful, Zargoth, Red Annis - all 3 item sets found only in caves where each individual item has a 0.5% drop rate, just like Griffs, Zorgrom etc - to put it plainly the default drop rate for LEs is 1.5% total and that is what is quoted in the guide, when grim releases them to caves, as he has said the drop rate is greatly increased - I'm guessing at least 2-3x - only he will know the the drop rate, the guide just has default pre-sets which are true for realms LEs but not for the caves.

 

As I said in my previous post, it would be far simpler and easier for grim to just adjust the cost to scavenge or further increase the drop rate to compensate for the low appearance as the poll clearly shows people are not satisfied with the status quo rather than adding a new cave and tinkering with costs and drop rates again, cut out the middle step of adding a new cave and just alter the costs/drop rates.

[Bleltch]

I'm always open to feedback and I shot down scrapping the caves and said I did not see a third cave being added. No need to lock it if good feedback can come of players reading my reasoning.

My feedback: Id like to see the bug fixed that lets some players easily profit from the caves, while others are always terminal losers. 

[BigGrim]

My feedback: Id like to see the bug fixed that lets some players easily profit from the caves, while others are always terminal losers. 

 

That's not a bug. It's the law of averages. Don't invent 'bugs' when it's simply bad luck.

[EpicPiety]

@bleltch the more money you spend the more likely you are to A...Profit or B...Earn back what you spent....If you always are losing out you just aren't investing enough.

[Pardoux]

@bleltch the more money you spend the more likely you are to A...Profit or B...Earn back what you spent....If you always are losing out you just aren't investing enough.

 

That does always seem to be the way, yeah - but that's not how it should be. The way it is now favours those who have the resources to spend more and store more.

 

I've noticed that whenever I scavenge the "second half" of it is always more lucrative, drops wise, than the first - and I spend, usually 10 - 20 million.

 

For a low level player, that's a LOT of gold to speculate with - and they either need a LOT of BP space or constant BP monitoring (there's also auto-drop too, but I never use that) to boot.

 

If there's a "cut-off" point, below which you won't even recoup your investment, then where's the incentive for lower level players to try their luck ?

[ehsan88]

 if everbody in game can make 100 scavage per day for Half price , participating in caves will be increased and prices will be lower. more than 100 scavage price can be back to normal