187 replies to this topic

[DragonLord]

I don't PVP and I voted YES in the poll.

If the gold rates are increased, a player may only get attacked once for gold and loose a small amount of XP and maybe 30 to 40% (depending on how much the rate is increased) of gold. As it is now, a PVPer needs to attack the same person more than once to gain a satisfying amount of gold (30 to 40%) and the defender will loose at least twice the amount of XP.

I don't have an opinion either way on this as, for the most part, it doesn't affect me, but ...

Under your example there, what's to stop the hitter going again ? - and taking another 30-40% of the remaining gold ? - you lose more gold than before and still the same amount of xp

(just playing devils advocate in this post .. .)

[evilbry]

I don't PVP and I voted YES in the poll.

If the gold rates are increased, a player may only get attacked once for gold and loose a small amount of XP and maybe 30 to 40% (depending on how much the rate is increased) of gold. As it is now, a PVPer needs to attack the same person more than once to gain a satisfying amount of gold (30 to 40%) and the defender will loose at least twice the amount of XP.

I don't have an opinion either way on this as, for the most part, it doesn't affect me, but ...

Under your example there, what's to stop the hitter going again ? - and taking another 30-40% of the remaining gold ? - you lose more gold than before and still the same amount of xp

(just playing devils advocate in this post .. .)

as every hit can be bountied, if gold theft rates are increased, there will be no value in hitting a second time if there's not enough gold. This is just common sense, so it's surprising it needs to be asked.

[DragonLord]

I don't PVP and I voted YES in the poll.

If the gold rates are increased, a player may only get attacked once for gold and loose a small amount of XP and maybe 30 to 40% (depending on how much the rate is increased) of gold. As it is now, a PVPer needs to attack the same person more than once to gain a satisfying amount of gold (30 to 40%) and the defender will loose at least twice the amount of XP.

I don't have an opinion either way on this as, for the most part, it doesn't affect me, but ...

Under your example there, what's to stop the hitter going again ? - and taking another 30-40% of the remaining gold ? - you lose more gold than before and still the same amount of xp

(just playing devils advocate in this post .. .)

as every hit can be bountied, if gold theft rates are increased, there will be no value in hitting a second time if there's not enough gold. This is just common sense, so it's surprising it needs to be asked.

Define "enough gold" ?

[evilbry]

'*enough* gold' is a variable set by the hitter which will never be constant. As every hit can lose 5 levels it will be whatever the hitter deems is enough to lose 5 levels over.

My threshold might be lower than Mae's threshold for example. It also depends on the angle of the sun and the phase of the moon for me.

[DragonLord]

'*enough* gold' is a variable set by the hitter which will never be constant. As every hit can lose 5 levels it will be whatever the hitter deems is enough to lose 5 levels over.

My threshold might be lower than Mae's threshold for example. It also depends on the angle of the sun and the phase of the moon for me.

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make - increasing the gold theft rate (as mention in Ringhals post) doesn't preclude getting hit a 2nd time and thus, in itself, won't necessarily save xp.

[evilbry]

'*enough* gold' is a variable set by the hitter which will never be constant. As every hit can lose 5 levels it will be whatever the hitter deems is enough to lose 5 levels over.

My threshold might be lower than Mae's threshold for example. It also depends on the angle of the sun and the phase of the moon for me.

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make - increasing the gold theft rate (as mention in Ringhals post) doesn't preclude getting hit a 2nd time and thus, in itself, won't necessarily save xp.

actually it will you're just trolling/derailing for the sake of it

What is the main reason behind a second hit being made these days? because such a small amount of gold is taken on the initial hit.

Can you tell me how often (under the bounty every time update) a player is hit a second time, when master thief kicks in, on a gold based hit (no war/personal conflict)?

[DragonLord]

'*enough* gold' is a variable set by the hitter which will never be constant. As every hit can lose 5 levels it will be whatever the hitter deems is enough to lose 5 levels over.

My threshold might be lower than Mae's threshold for example. It also depends on the angle of the sun and the phase of the moon for me.

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make - increasing the gold theft rate (as mention in Ringhals post) doesn't preclude getting hit a 2nd time and thus, in itself, won't necessarily save xp.

actually it will you're just trolling/derailing for the sake of it

What is the main reason behind a second hit being made these days? because such a small amount of gold is taken on the initial hit.

Can you tell me how often (under the bounty every time update) a player is hit a second time, when master thief kicks in, on a gold based hit (no war/personal conflict)?

I love how, lately, when we disagree, I'm trolling and/or derailing ...

Of course I can't tell you how often a player is hit a second time or on a gold based hit - can you tell me ? - of course not. It's one of those questions that can't be answered. All you can answer (with any degree of accuracy) is how often YOU hit a 2nd time under those circumstances.

I'm not even disagreeing with the gold theft percentages being increased - I think if players are foolish enough to keep a lot on hand then they only have theirselves to blame if they get hit.

My entire post was saying that Ringhals Point A (increasing the theft rate) doesn't automatically lead to Point B (not being hit a 2nd time and thus not losing more XP) - no more, no less.

If you wish to consider that trolling, then feel free .

I'm done on this thread tho - good luck with getting the theft rate raised.

[Shadow19231]

...You're taking the risk at PvP. If you don't like the amount you're stealing politely ask them to raise it 26% and to wait till you're done taking their gold.

[evilbry]

actually it will you're just trolling/derailing for the sake of it

What is the main reason behind a second hit being made these days? because such a small amount of gold is taken on the initial hit.

Can you tell me how often (under the bounty every time update) a player is hit a second time, when master thief kicks in, on a gold based hit (no war/personal conflict)?

I love how, lately, when we disagree, I'm trolling and/or derailing ...

I don't have an opinion either way on this as, for the most part, it doesn't affect me

just saying..

Of course I can't tell you how often a player is hit a second time or on a gold based hit - can you tell me ? - of course not. It's one of those questions that can't be answered. All you can answer (with any degree of accuracy) is how often YOU hit a 2nd time under those circumstances.

actually I have a pretty good idea how a number of people react under those circumstances. I mean, look at the guild I am in. We talk to each other and we post hits in skype or guild chat.

I'm not even disagreeing with the gold theft percentages being increased - I think if players are foolish enough to keep a lot on hand then they only have theirselves to blame if they get hit.

My entire post was saying that Ringhals Point A (increasing the theft rate) doesn't automatically lead to Point B (not being hit a 2nd time and thus not losing more XP) - no more, no less.

If you wish to consider that trolling, then feel free .

I'm done on this thread tho - good luck with getting the theft rate raised.

what you need to consider is that each hit now(since the every hit can be posted) comes with a level of risk. Previously people had the ability to hit and keep hitting with the free hits until their bounty was cleared. In this instance, the amount of gold remaining wasn't always taken into account.

So that being said, Player A has a threshold of 1 million gold. Player B has 1.1 million gold on hand.

If the result was Player A lost 100,000 gold of which Player B stole 80,000 then it's more likely that Player A will go back a second time, as the gold on hand is above the threshold level they have.

If however the combat result was Player A lost 400,000 gold of which Player B stole 320,000, there is a significantly lower chance Player A will go back a second time, as the gold on hand is now quite a bit lower than the threshold.

The above is why taking more gold and dropping their gold on hand(as a result) below a threshold would result in less repeated hits.

[lordthade]

>>So manipulating the market place risk free of pvp, is smart?<<


Me: If I have to PAY for PvP protection wouldn't it be dumb to not try to pay it off? If PvP protection were free I would probably still try to use the marketplace to my advantage but then again everyone tries to use EVERY aspect of this game to their advantage. Pretty mundane, actually.



>>How do you know increasing the gold stealing rates won't increase pvp activity and it's popularity? Considering pvp is mostly about stealing gold, a higher % gold stolen could possibly mean more players dabbling in that aspect of the game.Or am I wrong in thinking so?<<


Me: PvP isn't popular. Sorry. If you want it MORE popular, I highly doubt stealing that other person's gold/xp is likely to make them enjoy themselves. Woo! I was robbed! Yay!!!! :?

If you want to increase PvP in the game, your best bet is in-guild dueling. I'm fine with that. Teach up new players to the buffs and gears and you might see GvG and PvP both pick up, but it's an investment in time and energy (and the Cows haven't exactly embraced dueling).

As for PvP being about "stealing gold"... how many bios have I read with PvPers saying they were just hitting for the sake of hitting? Making a "cake"? ;-) Or just mercenary/stompers that really only want to participate in guild wars. If-- just throwing this out there-- PvP was "mostly about stealing gold", then let's go whole-hog and make PvP ONLY about stealing gold. No xp loss. Let's see what happens, at least. You might actually see some PvP activity pick up!

Oh, and NEVER. Not ONCE, have I EVER read a bio saying someone was afraid of the bounty board. *flush* The bounty board is a joke and it is PvPers that think so more than others. They ENJOY it. :roll:

Increasing theft rates will inflate the market. It'll mean more players trying to dump their gold faster, which will drive UP the market.

[evilbry]

Oh, and NEVER. Not ONCE, have I EVER read a bio saying someone was afraid of the bounty board.

Why would someone publicly admit a weakness to make them vulnerable? It's not human nature to do so.

Perhaps you haven't seen the result of the poll on this This thread. It is very obvious that the bounty board has a level of fear about it.

[Maehdros]

If-- just throwing this out there-- PvP was "mostly about stealing gold", then let's go whole-hog and make PvP ONLY about stealing gold. No xp loss. Let's see what happens, at least. You might actually see some PvP activity pick up!

Question, if this did occur, and pvp hits off the board only resulted in gold loss and Zero xp loss, would you still use protection?

[rattytcb]

BIG yes from me, would make pvp hits worth doing again

used to get a good buzz out of pvp hits but now it just aint worth getting bountied for

[lordthade]

>>Perhaps you haven't seen the result of the poll on this This thread. It is very obvious that the bounty board has a level of fear about it.<<


Me: I'm pretty sure I posted in that thread. ;-)

To be clear, PvPers aren't afraid of the bounty board.

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but there aren't many non-PvPers in the forums. I myself have admitted that many times I've held back from my real opinion out of fear for reprisals. Not reprisals against myself-- that's no big deal-- but reprisals against my guild or guildies. One of my very FIRST experiences in these same forms saw my expression of an opinion about a guild war get taken out of context and result in an attack on my guild. Seriously. It's been said before: If PvP is dead, it's because PvPers killed it.


Mae: I actually enjoy PvP on another game I'm dabbling in. I think (after some introspection) one of the reasons I enjoy that game's PvP is that A. No 2% rule, and B. No xp loss. Gold/money is readily available and the protecting of it is fairly simple. Still, PvP is alive and thriving.

Would I stop using PvP protection? I can honestly say I'd be tempted. I don't LIKE paying 100 FSPs every 28 days, but I like being able to play without fear of losing levels or dealing with keyboard warriors. ;-) I'd likely at least give it a try. I can't say I'd want to hit others (I've kind o made it "my thing" here that I don't want to have to hit anyone), but if I weren't worried about xp loss..... yeah. I'd probably drop PvP protection.

[evilbry]

To be clear, PvPers aren't afraid of the bounty board.

This depends on what your definition of a PvPer is. I will go with what your perception is, and that's the regular pvper who is on the board quite often. If a PvPer is listed and dropped every time they are posted, then they won't hit as much. The fact they are not being dropped for their attacks is simply an indication of players expecting auto punishment, for minimum effort/cost.

If a PvPer loses levels, they lose the gear score, and are able to hit less targets. Their stamina is often then spent trying to get those levels back at some point. PvPer loses enough levels, they will not be pvping.
If one victim is able to have an attacker of theirs dropped a number of times, the chances are they will very likely not be attacked by that person or other PvPers again. PvPers would respect that person.

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but there aren't many non-PvPers in the forums.

I'd strongly disagree with this. There are many more people who fall into the leveler box. Just make a detrimental change to the hunting system, and you will see them come out of the woodwork. In fact, look at the threads about global events, looked to me like a lot more 'levelers' than 'pvpers' there.

Perhaps though, from your comment, it indicates there are a lot more people who actually care about PvP being part of the game than those who do not. Something the cows should take notice of.

It's been said before: If PvP is dead, it's because PvPers killed it.

This is rather antagonistic and is going to create some volatile responses. The truth is though HCS made the changes which have limited PvP activity. PvPers did not make those changes.

[3JS]

A few points have been raised here that I'd like to add my opinion on.

Marketplace...It's been said that this idea would inflate the MP. I've been selling FSP's all day for around 220K. I can't remember a time outside of an XP event that it was that high. That tells me that gold is too readily available, and not enough being sunk. PvP sinks gold. Lots of PvP sinks lots of gold. Maybe not enough to make a noticeable impact, but more than what is being done now.

Bounty board...PvPers do fear the bounty board now. Every hit can be bountied, so if you hit someone 10 times, you can lose 50 levels. That gets expensive for the PvPer. Way more expensive than gold hits of 10% are worth (hint, hint).

XP...If I hit someone my level, they lose between 1.5 and 2 million XP. With the loyalty doubler, that can be made up on 1 square during a leveling session.

I just can't understand why someone would play a game, knowing when you signed up that you can be hit at any time without rhyme or reason, and be so disgusted with the possibility of it actually happening. Every single update for the past 2 years has been at the expense of people who PvP. When it's brought up that those players would like a bone tossed in their direction, levelers act like they cursed their momma.

Let me pose this question...What type of PvP would the levelers be OK with? Before answering, don't say the bounty board or PvP ladder. I'm asking about regular, everyday, PvP. Not some planned, boring side show.

[mimdala]

Let me pose this question...What type of PvP would the levelers be OK with?

Personally, this:

If-- just throwing this out there-- PvP was "mostly about stealing gold", then let's go whole-hog and make PvP ONLY about stealing gold. No xp loss. Let's see what happens, at least.

Why this? Because most of the time when I've been hit, it's been because I've had too much gold on me. I've lost xp because of my gold. If there's no xp loss, both attacker and me are happy (attacker is extra happy if gold theft rates are higher, so I say go for it!). But of course this is extremely unrealistic (not the gold theft part, the no xp part)

[lordthade]

For the record, I DIDN'T "sign up" for PvP. This was my first foray into on-line gaming and I had no idea what I was in for, much less what the acronym would mean. It's not a good argument, anyway. It's like saying I don't know why people would be so upset with gas prices when they knew when they bought a car that it would need gas. Well, I may understand now what PvP is, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or that I should be included in it. The game includes lots of other aspects as well, and none are required.

PvP does sink gold. No argument. Scavenging and forging sinks a LOT more. I think we'd serve a lot more of the community and the market focusing on that. Again, if gold thefts increased, you'll see higher and higher gold offers on the market trying to "dump" hunted gold before the PvPer sweeps in. You'll inflate the market. The reason the market's high now is that no one is doing anything with their FSPs (other than buying your gold). I'll bet there's a good bunch of players with tens of thousands of FSPs and it's not helping that they don't spend it. More power to them, but the only time the community moves the market is when more of the community is using their gold.

While I'm thinking of it, guild structures probably sink the most gold in the game. Time for new structures or ways of setting their costs that the gold is sunk more efficiently.

[lordthade]

Bry: Slight quibble (otherwise I mostly agree with your initial paragraphs), PvPers losing levels doesn't give them fewer targets. We keep expanding their range and all it does is change WHO they have to hit. Not necessarily how many.

[MummRa]

If-- just throwing this out there-- PvP was "mostly about stealing gold", then let's go whole-hog and make PvP ONLY about stealing gold. No xp loss. Let's see what happens, at least. You might actually see some PvP activity pick up!

Question, if this did occur, and pvp hits off the board only resulted in gold loss and Zero xp loss, would you still use protection?

If they were to do this I'd be more than happy to welcome an increase in gold theft

However, if it were to be implemented I wonder if allowing XP loss (and possibly syphoning) on BB hits (of course it would have to back to 1 bounty though not 1/hit