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Your guild mates attacked mine, for pay even. He had done not a thing to any of you. If it was just one we would probably taken 5 levels form him and been on our way. But there were 3 members of your guild attacking our guy and no one else. At some point guild members have to take responsibility for each others actions. You guys went over the line.Everyone seems to talk of loyalty and honor but one thing strikes me as odd in this whole mess. Why is it that people who had NOTHING to do with the offending mercenaries get hit? Where is the honor in hitting people who did nothing to you? Speaking for myself ALONE here for a minute, I was pissed as h&^$ to be hit by an ally of WK ( 100 stam at that) when I myself did not partake in the deleveling party hired on their member.
to House of Pain
Started by Zenth, Oct 12 2009 08:08
60 replies to this topic
#21
Posted 13 October 2009 - 21:15
#22
fs_telicis
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Posted 13 October 2009 - 21:16
However, what if you get attacked, want a payback and you value your and your friends and guildmates XP a lot more than some FSP??
If it is revenge that you seek, then perhaps you should try and get it yourself ... not hire somebody else to do it for you ... just don't go into PvP related aspects if you ain't gut the guts to do it and stand the consequences ...
Mercs are not among the people we like in WK and that is how it's gonna stay ... we have stated this and are not afraid to admit it anytime ! play with fire you get burned, PvP has consequences, and you'all remember that
Agreed, but I think his point was more akin to what Bletch said earlier: What happens if you have lots of gold, but no one to fight with you? All the balls and stam in the world don't mean anything if it's 1 person vs a group and both are hardcore.
I'm not a fan of Mercs, but the fact is there are some people out there who really don't have another option if they want to stand their ground (and not get curbstomped)... Or they just don't have allies who PvP?
At some point guild members have to take responsibility for each others actions. You guys went over the line.
This, I believe, is the crux of the problem. In a perfect world yes; a lot of guilds would be more like WK and such, and each and every member would at least be on speaking terms with each other.
In actuality, I'd wager less than 10% of Fallensword's guilds have even half of their members talk to everyone else on a weekly basis. Someone gave me a very interesting analogy that I think explains it:
To a lot of people, guilds are just a much bigger "Acquaintance" list. A lot of people will know more of and have better relations with people in their Allies/Enemies list than in their guild.
#23
Posted 13 October 2009 - 21:23
I do value their exp more than fsp, their stamina also. My friends and guildmates know i'll give them absolutely everything I have if they need it. Many of them will do the same for me. You cant put a value on that.Mercenaries have no honor. Players that hire mercs to fight their battles have no honor. If you're not willing or unable to fight your own battles, and you have no friends or guild mates willing to stand up for you, then Bleltch is sad for you. You are missing out. :cry:
To each his own..
I see your point if someone is asking for support and he doesnt get it..However, what if you get attacked, want a payback and you value your and your friends and guildmates XP a lot more than some FSP?? Its just a matter of priorities.
#24
BadPenny
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Posted 13 October 2009 - 21:28
However, what if you get attacked, want a payback and you value your and your friends and guildmates XP a lot more than some FSP??
If it is revenge that you seek, then perhaps you should try and get it yourself ... not hire somebody else to do it for you ... just don't go into PvP related aspects if you ain't gut the guts to do it and stand the consequences ...
Mercs are not among the people we like in WK and that is how it's gonna stay ... we have stated this and are not afraid to admit it anytime ! play with fire you get burned, PvP has consequences, and you'all remember that
Agreed, but I think his point was more akin to what Bletch said earlier: What happens if you have lots of gold, but no one to fight with you? All the balls and stam in the world don't mean anything if it's 1 person vs a group and both are hardcore.
I'm not a fan of Mercs, but the fact is there are some people out there who really don't have another option if they want to stand their ground (and not get curbstomped)... Or they just don't have allies who PvP?At some point guild members have to take responsibility for each others actions. You guys went over the line.
This, I believe, is the crux of the problem. In a perfect world yes; a lot of guilds would be more like WK and such, and each and every member would at least be on speaking terms with each other.
In actuality, I'd wager less than 10% of Fallensword's guilds have even half of their members talk to everyone else on a weekly basis. Someone gave me a very interesting analogy that I think explains it:
To a lot of people, guilds are just a much bigger "Acquaintance" list. A lot of people will know more of and have better relations with people in their Allies/Enemies list than in their guild.
To take this one step further, those of us that actively PvP have been close acquaintances since before being WK members. I, myself, fell in love with a current WK member many months ago. But we speak on a DAILY basis, have each other's backs when needed, and are willing to sacrifice ourselves for any membr of our guild or for our allies. This thread appears to be beating a dead horse. And TBH, if the cows hadn't made it where guild members couldn't attack each other, maybe we wouldn't be so bored. But then again, that change was just one more thing to appease the level grinders.
Just one old lady's opinion
~Love, Penny
Have you hugged your Quango lately?
#25
Posted 13 October 2009 - 21:31
However, what if you get attacked, want a payback and you value your and your friends and guildmates XP a lot more than some FSP??
If it is revenge that you seek, then perhaps you should try and get it yourself ... not hire somebody else to do it for you ... just don't go into PvP related aspects if you ain't gut the guts to do it and stand the consequences ...
Mercs are not among the people we like in WK and that is how it's gonna stay ... we have stated this and are not afraid to admit it anytime ! play with fire you get burned, PvP has consequences, and you'all remember that
Agreed, but I think his point was more akin to what Bletch said earlier: What happens if you have lots of gold, but no one to fight with you? All the balls and stam in the world don't mean anything if it's 1 person vs a group and both are hardcore.
I'm not a fan of Mercs, but the fact is there are some people out there who really don't have another option if they want to stand their ground (and not get curbstomped)... Or they just don't have allies who PvP?At some point guild members have to take responsibility for each others actions. You guys went over the line.
This, I believe, is the crux of the problem. In a perfect world yes; a lot of guilds would be more like WK and such, and each and every member would at least be on speaking terms with each other.
In actuality, I'd wager less than 10% of Fallensword's guilds have even half of their members talk to everyone else on a weekly basis. Someone gave me a very interesting analogy that I think explains it:
To a lot of people, guilds are just a much bigger "Acquaintance" list. A lot of people will know more of and have better relations with people in their Allies/Enemies list than in their guild.
If anybody in my guild asked for buffs, advice, or for my help teaching some punk a lesson, I wouldn't hesitate.
Yes, I don't know everyone in my guild personally.
But, we are all united by a common goal and interest we share in this game. We all have each others back, and support each other. That is how a guild should be.
#26
fs_telicis
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Posted 13 October 2009 - 22:09
But, we are all united by a common goal and interest we share in this game. We all have each others back, and support each other. That is how a guild should be.
Exactly! I'm not sure I could name ten guilds that can say that though, much less a majority of Fallensword.
In any case though, as said before (by Badpenny I believe), dead horse. :mrgreen:
#27
Posted 13 October 2009 - 22:35
Ok......warrior kings has a problem with people being mercs. I have a problem with people who try to extort gold from others. I asked StangValle to please limit his retaliation to those that were involved. This was his response: StangValle says: ok, heres the deal. For stam spent and bounty tickets spent we want 2 million gold. We will cease to attack and will not attack again UNLESS a guild member or guild ally is hit.
To me....StangValle is a merc in his own right.....Pay me and I won't attack. PvP is part of the game. Bounty Hunters are part of the game. Mercs are part of the game. The person that the mercs hit was on the bounty board. He obviously did something to warrant that. If the person who placed the bounty felt the need to hire mercs, that is part of the game as well.
Warrior Kings boasts they are old school bounty hunters. Bounty Hunters get paid just like mercs, whether it be in gold, FSP, or a medal.
I hope that someone in Warrior Kings has the vision to see past StangValle's warped thinking and put an end to this nonsense.
To me....StangValle is a merc in his own right.....Pay me and I won't attack. PvP is part of the game. Bounty Hunters are part of the game. Mercs are part of the game. The person that the mercs hit was on the bounty board. He obviously did something to warrant that. If the person who placed the bounty felt the need to hire mercs, that is part of the game as well.
Warrior Kings boasts they are old school bounty hunters. Bounty Hunters get paid just like mercs, whether it be in gold, FSP, or a medal.
I hope that someone in Warrior Kings has the vision to see past StangValle's warped thinking and put an end to this nonsense.
#28
fs_kessdox
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Posted 13 October 2009 - 23:01
If the person who placed the bounty felt the need to hire mercs, that is part of the game as well.
Yes ... and it's also part of the game that PvP has consequences, so nobody should whine ... at least a merc or the person hiring him ... attack & counter-attack, and who is stronger wins. Mercs were supposed to be tough characters by definition, ppl who get paid BUT take a big risk .
Bounty Hunters get paid just like mercs, whether it be in gold, FSP, or a medal.
Clearly, you fail to see the difference between getting paid to hit a person and BH-ing. No matter the purpose, BH-ing takes skill ... a merc doesn't get paid to whack the guy 10 times, he only does it 1-3 times or such, and mostly while the target is offline and can't properly defend ...
#29
Posted 13 October 2009 - 23:06
House of pain.."As a group they inflict excruciating punishment on those who dare to cross a family member. " lol..Punnish me please! lol
#30
Posted 13 October 2009 - 23:12
Bounty hunting takes skill.....is that your way of justifying calling yourself a bounty hunter instead of a merc? Your skills are better than theirs? Obviously, you lack the vision to see that they are the same in many ways. One's skill level does not elevate them from merc to bounty hunter. There is no elevation possible. Bounty hunters get paid....mercs get paid.
I guess if I was to use you thinking, then by association, Warrior Kings hate bounty hunters, and extrapolated even further, Warrior Kings hate themselves.
I guess if I was to use you thinking, then by association, Warrior Kings hate bounty hunters, and extrapolated even further, Warrior Kings hate themselves.
#31
fs_telicis
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Posted 13 October 2009 - 23:22
StangValle says: ok, heres the deal. For stam spent and bounty tickets spent we want 2 million gold. We will cease to attack and will not attack again UNLESS a guild member or guild ally is hit.
I could be wrong, but this sounds HILARIOUSLY tongue in cheek, even ignoring the guild it's from. Sounds like he's just poking fun at you, to be honest.
Bounty hunting takes skill.....is that your way of justifying calling yourself a bounty hunter instead of a merc? Your skills are better than theirs? Obviously, you lack the vision to see that they are the same in many ways. One's skill level does not elevate them from merc to bounty hunter. There is no elevation possible. Bounty hunters get paid....mercs get paid.
I guess if I was to use you thinking, then by association, Warrior Kings hate bounty hunters, and extrapolated even further, Warrior Kings hate themselves.
To be fair, yes, there are similarities and they both do get paid... I'd argue there's just as many differences though; in most cases the stam use, reasoning, respect (this is a big one for most serious bounty hunters), interaction, and how the game extrapolates it are all different for example.
#32
Posted 13 October 2009 - 23:34
Warrior Kings hating themselves? :shock: That whole statement was such a blatant critical thinking fallacy I felt the need to look up the exact terminology for it.
Base rate fallacy: using weak evidence to make a probability judgment without taking into account known empirical statistics about the probability.
I would have said slippery slope, but I stand corrected.
As far as bounty hunters being merc-ish, I realize that's a common misconception. I get messaged often by complete strangers, asking me if I care to take part in their delevels. They'll pay this, they'll pay that. At most I put them on ignore, at my laziest I just don't answer.
When I was doing my highest volume in bounties, I still never made enough to keep myself in gear, buffs, and tickets. Never. I did it because I loved it. I rarely even knew what the reward was, until I had it. If there's a way to make tons of money at it, I never found it. I was just having a good time. So please don't say I did it for the money. Because I didn't. I'd rather that misconception was dispelled, not carried on.
Base rate fallacy: using weak evidence to make a probability judgment without taking into account known empirical statistics about the probability.
I would have said slippery slope, but I stand corrected.
As far as bounty hunters being merc-ish, I realize that's a common misconception. I get messaged often by complete strangers, asking me if I care to take part in their delevels. They'll pay this, they'll pay that. At most I put them on ignore, at my laziest I just don't answer.
When I was doing my highest volume in bounties, I still never made enough to keep myself in gear, buffs, and tickets. Never. I did it because I loved it. I rarely even knew what the reward was, until I had it. If there's a way to make tons of money at it, I never found it. I was just having a good time. So please don't say I did it for the money. Because I didn't. I'd rather that misconception was dispelled, not carried on.
#33
Posted 13 October 2009 - 23:52
bunnybee....you just prove my point....you did it because you loved it. As i said before, bounty hunters and mercs are very similar. They each do it for something. To say that ones reason for doing it is better than anothers would best be left to a higher authority.
#34
fs_telicis
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Posted 14 October 2009 - 00:57
bunnybee....you just prove my point....you did it because you loved it. As i said before, bounty hunters and mercs are very similar. They each do it for something. To say that ones reason for doing it is better than anothers would best be left to a higher authority.
...I have absolutely no clue why you even bothered posting that; it's kind of a given. The same is true of absolutely every action within Fallensword that is possible, including what is happening between different guilds. You've just negated every argument that is possible in any form about the topic.
#35
Posted 14 October 2009 - 01:10
It is NOT the same. Doing something for love, and doing something for money is NOT the same. You might just as well say at that point that all things can be ground down into some unrecognizable mass of inconsequential muck. Nothing has any bearing on anything else. The end justifies the means because all ends are the same. How much sense does that make? :shock:
Who said it's a dead horse? I concede your point, completely. I'm done kicking the poor thing.
Who said it's a dead horse? I concede your point, completely. I'm done kicking the poor thing.
#36
Posted 14 October 2009 - 01:50
I have just negated every arguement? Thank You!! It is a game people!! Just have fun any you want and don't tell others that they can't have fun the way they want to!
#37
fs_kessdox
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Posted 14 October 2009 - 06:00
Just have fun any you want and don't tell others that they can't have fun the way they want to!
Who says you or anybody else can't have fun ?! I think you are missing the point here again...we are NOT spoiling anybody's fun ... though like i said, PvP HAS consequences and if you aren't prepared to face it, then perhaps you should seek other forms of enjoyment
you don't expect to 100 stam someone and walk away with it now, are you ?! at least a WK ... we are known to dislike mercs, choose to ignore that ... your call One's skill level does not elevate them from merc to bounty hunter. There is no elevation possible. Bounty hunters get paid....mercs get paid.
That just goes further to demonstrate your lack of knowledge in the pvp area. In most cases, it's not payment that makes BH-ers clear the BB (f.e. i've cleared about 10 bounties out of which 3 or 4 were up for minimum reward yesterday ... just because they were higher lvl then me - lvl 180-190) ... a good BH-er is ALWAYS prepared for action, while a merc isn't ... you don't spend time on BB, competing with other BH-ers to complete bounties .. as BH-er, in most cases you only have a few secs to examine your target before accepting a bounty, otherwise you'll miss it ... as merc, you can only attack targets +/- 5 lvls of your VL ... on BB you can attack anybody ! ... you need to know EXACTLY what buffs you need to counter surprises during the bounty (target getting possible buffs) ... those are only a few aspects in which a BH-er is superior to a merc. Choose to ignore it, it's your call ... BUT it is there !
#38
fs_agnihotra
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Posted 14 October 2009 - 10:35
Firstly, I have not read the entire thread cuz I don't have time to do so....
Now...
1. You hire mercs,you take the risk of doing so against a guild KNOWN FOR CRUSHING MERCS! You had taken the risk...now you suffer.
2.This is a war, I can't understand why does this guy 'Durkin' bounty me for 100 stamming him and then his guild not 100 stamming me in return....it was a silly thing to do.Some BH-er then cleared my bounty.
Now...
1. You hire mercs,you take the risk of doing so against a guild KNOWN FOR CRUSHING MERCS! You had taken the risk...now you suffer.
2.This is a war, I can't understand why does this guy 'Durkin' bounty me for 100 stamming him and then his guild not 100 stamming me in return....it was a silly thing to do.Some BH-er then cleared my bounty.
#39
fs_nthnclls
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Posted 14 October 2009 - 16:36
bunnybee....you just prove my point....you did it because you loved it. As i said before, bounty hunters and mercs are very similar. They each do it for something. To say that ones reason for doing it is better than anothers would best be left to a higher authority.
I have no clue what is happening between these two guilds, but this is a really stupid argument. They both do what they do for "something"? So mercs and senators are very similar? Senators also do what they do for "something," either they like politics, they like the publicity, or some other reason. So priests and hired assassins are very similar? They, too, each "do it for something." I'm assuming that you mean "what they do", by "it", and not "attack other players".
Again, I do not know the situation here, besides what's been posted in this thread. I have my own opinion about mercs, which has nothing to do with the rest of the post. This isn't judging either guild. I just wanted to add my two cents.
#40
Posted 15 October 2009 - 00:42
But then again, that change was just one more thing to appease the level grinders.
Who? What? Huh? Most people just shrugged at that change, it didn't appease anyone.
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