59 replies to this topic

[Davros81]

This is a decent idea. Maybe not let the hunted in the bounty system not lose PvPXP  but thats just my thoughts

double negative, are you sure?

[justinian9]

double negative, are you sure?

Does a double negitive mean positive? 

[yodamus]

ok penny...i gave this over a day to think about, to keep from over-reacting (which i am prone to do)..on the surface, your idea seems great...very good as -a matter of fact, if i read into this correctly..unless a person 100 stams someone (gold, ladder or bb), they should have no way to lose xp....which of course would mean xp loss would be a person's own fault..if a person chooses only 10 stam hits..they should be safe from xp loss...

 

possible flaws- big one first- since many pvpers actually wish to lose levels, or dont mind losing levels..what is to stop this from happening- attacker goes naked ( to lose on purpose, to lose xp on purpose, to lose levels) and keeps on attacking their ally (friend) with 100 stams  to help them keep gaining pvp/xp to further boost their friend higher up the pvp/xp ladder for rewards and such ( i dont know much about you, but i am sure you would not stand for this exploitation, as you like to earn your place among the best)...but having both sides gaining what they want..attacker losing xp, defender gaining pvp/xp ..seems pretty exploitable to me...

 

second, and this is because of the bb..as i said in my thread about bb...unless there is an auto-bounty...i dont see your idea helping the bb as most players will only 10 stam to be safe..(me included)... this is why i think auto-bounty is needed at a random amount of stam used, and/or gold stolen to help ensure that the bounty board is active...probelm with this, is eventually 10 stammers would make the bb and be subject to a lot of xp loss..which they dont want (maybe, since they did so much pvping to get auto-bountied, they would deserve to lose some xp)..up to cows to decide..

[wil72]

Where does the real "bullying" happen?

 

Is that not the place where XP loss should be removed from? 

 

Could say more but won't, don't want muted "like".

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[BadPenny]

OK, Yod, let me answer your questions as best I can.  I'll start with the latter as it is the simplest... with the 10 stam prestige hit, only 10 prestige and a minimal amount of PvP XP would be exchanged.  NO gold..... Now If I'm going after gold, or more PvP XP, I'm using 100, I'm not wasting my time for a 10 stam hit in that situation.... I want to make the prestige immune since it's directly tied to leveling... It is a very useful leveling buff after all, and I think everybody should be able to build theirs without fear of reprisal.... I also think there should be a setting so that you can use all or part of your time, rather than have to burn it all at once.  And yes, a successful defend should receive prestige.... it's only fair in my eyes... The point is that the bounty board will still light up with those that hate being robbed, or being attacked in the first place.  And I do think the autobounty could make things interesting, if it were random enough that you couldn't just stop at the threshold to avoid repercussions

 

 

The first point:  Contrary to popular belief, there are relatively few PvPer's that really want to delevel all the time.  It happens as part of the territory, sure, and the few that do it intentionally are looked upon with disdain by the rest of us.  As far as I'm concerned, If you're that crazy, don't ask me to waste my stam, just take off all your gear and go to Dunale and hunt Triclopse... That will work..... As to the exploitation, that will happen with or without XP loss... there will always be those that deliberately share PvP XP.... Hopefully the Cows can find a way to plug this hole....

Edited by BadPenny, 11 October 2014 - 02:10.

[yodamus]

hmmm.. thanks for answering me..keep in mind..i am a leveler that is totally against xp loss (to me, xp loss is bullying when not on the bb) ..

 

first..in your original thoughts, you have prestige hits stealing gold...yet in your answer to me...you say no gold..which is it...i would think gold would have to be stolen or you would lose a lot of would-be players wanting to try pvp...if the only way to steal any gold is with a 100 stam hit (maybe that is how you think bb will light up)....that part tho does not sounds good for participation...most players wanting this new pvp/xp system, would also want gold theft included..of course, much less gold stolen with 10 stam hit as opposed to a 100 stam hit..that is also why auto-bounty is needed...even after x amount of gold stolen (random amount)..a 10 stammer would end up on bb.....if gold is only able to be stolen with 100 stam hits..which then end up on bb for xp loss...i would have to disagree on your idea..and i could easily be wrong about 10 stam hits stealing gold...would wonder how the whole community and the cows see it..

 

i totally agree with you on being able to use however much prestige as one chooses when they use it...it is thiers, earned..should be able to decide how to use themselves..without having to use it all at one time..

 

i also agree that no matter what the cows do..exploitation will occur...i can hope they can find a way for it not to happen, but pretty hard to do that in the pvp system..and from my experience, i have never met a pvper that did not wish to lose levels..popular belief is correct from my view..they enjoy losing levels, (partly cause of guild xp)...nearly everytime i have been hit pvp style, i get a pm asking to be put on bb, or else i will get hit again...pvpers want to lose levels..badge of honor, i guess..

 

what i do like tho, is that your idea is in connection with the 1 new pvp/xp system that the cows wish to roll out...none of this 2 systems ( too much work, for too few players)...will be hard enough for zorg and the cows to get 1 system going smoothly..keep up the good work penny...at least you are seeing both sides of the fence..and accepting what is to come..kudos for that..

[midgetmanj]

double negative, are you sure?

 

Shhhhh

[Gutie]

My intent is that only 100 stam hits (regular PvP) be bountied.... win or lose.  I don't believe that deflected hits or 10 stam prestige hits should be eligible to be bountied, since there is really no harm, no foul, and these hits occur at most every 3 days....   And only in the case of a failed 100 stam attack would the attacker lose XP (we can lose this if people want, just thought it would make a nice risk factor... 2% rule and all)

 

As for the BB, the only real change would be the addition of the PvP XP ... Since that is Doom's idea, his explanation will have to suffice as to how that would work....  Also how much XP would be lost would be up to the cows, I suppose

 

One more thing I think I should mention... I successfully defend a lot, and there are more than a few times that I am thwarted in my attacks.  I feel that a successful defend should also earn prestige... Just my take on it... don't really care if you agree here... it's just common sense...

So spam hitting people every hour with 10 stams or anything under 100 stams is fine? No bounties? Or is this specificlly about the BB?

Edited by Gutie, 11 October 2014 - 07:41.

[BadPenny]

@ Gutie:  Define "spam hitting"  Hourly hits are almost always annoying.... but to answer your question:

 

If you don't like me, seeing me constantly in your logs will irk you.... However, I don't think this is a common occurrence, not with a 10 stam hit.... If my intention is to get under your skin, I'm not going to pussy foot around with 10 stam attacks.... that's lame... This is Erildath, not My Little Pony.... I'm going to hit you with all I have to do the most damage...  And with a prestige hit, there is no point to constant attacks... Prestige is limited to once every third day to prevent harassment and senseless farming.  That should not change.... Just the ability to bounty the attack 

 

@Yod:  You are misinformed.... I've been around a while now, and I think I pretty much know the pulse of Erildath on any given day.... There are trends of wannabe PvPer's that decide they want to be a lower level again, for various reasons (all lame, in my book)... These are NOT the norm... I don't like being on the board... I don't dislike it.  It's part of the game.  In any case, the majority of PvPer's have some sanity and do not wish to be deleveled on a regular basis... We level and progress through the game like everybody else, although at a slower pace due to making up lost levels.  At least I do, and I don't feel I am in the minority in this... I could be wrong, but I don't think so... Feel free to correct me if I am, community.

 

As to  changing my mind about no gold loss for a prestige hit... If it should be immune to bountying, then no gold should change hands... Maybe only prestige points should be awarded here... I leave this up to the powers that be to decide.  Just throwing out ideas here, but what the community thinks of this concept may be the deciding factor.

[yotekiller]

As to  changing my mind about no gold loss for a prestige hit... If it should be immune to bountying, then no gold should change hands... Maybe only prestige points should be awarded here... I leave this up to the powers that be to decide.  Just throwing out ideas here, but what the community thinks of this concept may be the deciding factor.

So now you want to eliminate gold loss and the ability to bounty as long as everybody is "playing nice" and only using 10 stams hits?  Then you want to award a bonus of prestige on top of that so people can level up even faster with absolutely no risk whatsoever.  This is insane.  Prestige trading will be off the charts and sunk gold will drop off a cliff.  Gold loss should be a part of every hit, bounty board should be available at all times and prestige should be earned, not traded.

[yodamus]

So now you want to eliminate gold loss and the ability to bounty as long as everybody is "playing nice" and only using 10 stams hits?  Then you want to award a bonus of prestige on top of that so people can level up even faster with absolutely no risk whatsoever.  This is insane.  Prestige trading will be off the charts and sunk gold will drop off a cliff.  Gold loss should be a part of every hit, bounty board should be available at all times and prestige should be earned, not traded.

parts i agree, and part i disagree..all hits should contain some gold loss...10 stam, no much gold stolen, 100 stam, lots of gold stolen..bounties just as penny wishes..therefore only 100 stam hits..the 10 stammers would eventually make the bounty board with the auto-bounty idea, for "x" amount of stam used or gold stolen..(RANDOM)..if you make xp loss on the bb (which i am more and more wanting out of bb also, just pvp/xp should be lost)...it has to be this way, or else the whole new system fails..there would only be the same pvpers, nobody new would dare to try the new pvp/xp sytem...getting bountied for a 10 stam hit is extremly lame....and should not occur..10 stam hits to take out bounty,also should not be bountyable..100 stam hits..bountyable..with penny's idea- xp loss would be your own fault...for using 100 stam hits..your way in your post...sounds no different than pvp as it is now...which is bad , and what we are trying to get away from...

[RebornJedi]

If you don't like me, seeing me constantly in your logs will irk you.... However, I don't think this is a common occurrence, not with a 10 stam hit.... If my intention is to get under your skin, I'm not going to pussy foot around with 10 stam attacks.... that's lame... This is Erildath, not My Little Pony.... I'm going to hit you with all I have to do the most damage... And with a prestige hit, there is no point to constant attacks... Prestige is limited to once every third day to prevent harassment and senseless farming. That should not change.... Just the ability to bounty the attack

If I can gain pvpxp with ten stamina then I will be doing constant attacking.. This shouldn't be labeled as spam hitting.. This should be labeled as activity.. Now 100 attacks, one every 2 minutes could be looked at as spam but I don't want to pick up an example out from under the bus to just toss another one under

Also I think PvP prestige needs to changed to every 24 hours and you can only gain it from someone who has been active in less than 24 hours.. This will promote more PvP activity everyday.. Players would log on to make their round of PvP attacks every day. Tis another reason to log in day. Either to protect their pvp XP or gain their PvP prestige.

Edited by RebornJedi, 11 October 2014 - 12:49.

[BadPenny]

So now you want to eliminate gold loss and the ability to bounty as long as everybody is "playing nice" and only using 10 stams hits?  Then you want to award a bonus of prestige on top of that so people can level up even faster with absolutely no risk whatsoever.  This is insane.  Prestige trading will be off the charts and sunk gold will drop off a cliff.  Gold loss should be a part of every hit, bounty board should be available at all times and prestige should be earned, not traded.

How many actually use their prestige now?  I would bet it's a small percentage of the community.  Prestige should be a separate issue from all other PvP, like GvG hits are.  I'm just tired of coming in and finding that I have lost levels overnight due to a 10 stam Prestige hit.  It's something I did not deserve, especially since I always get a loyalty conserve pot before I start my Prestige run.  Again, I'm not trying to make radical changes here, merely throwing out ideas to make a compromise... I think that my ideas require minimal changes and will make a great impact to reduce the incidence of bullying.  I'm just trying to save my game.... Am I so wrong to do that?  Maybe so..... Well, I'm shutting up now.....

[yodamus]

last comment i will make on this thread...since this thread has morphed into something totally different, i have had to change my mind about it being good...just above you say something about your idea reducing the bullying ( that is bad, reducing only ?), you need to get rid of it completly...to do that..no xp loss anywhere in pvp...not for any reason...xp loss on bb, can easily lead to bullying on the bb, and/or manipulation of bb...most players are wanting to be able to bounty any gold hit..so a person doing a 10 stam hit could be put on bb and lose many levels for a 10 stam hit for a small amount of gold...( not gonna encourage many players to try the new pvp system).. again no xp loss on the bb.....this new system should be all about pvp/xp and that only..pvp/xp is what will get lost on the bb..the key to this and the cows know it- is to make sure pvp/xp has some serious value to it...

 

according to thread now- only way to steal any gold is to risk getting put on bb for xp loss ( sounds exactly the same as we already have, which is not working)...steal 2k gold (lose 5 levels, not encouraging).. stealing gold should have only the risk on losing pvp/xp on the bb, in order to get players involved..

 

i keep hearing about , if no xp loss on bb, gold theiving will be constant on players with zero pvp/xp rating...are we sure about this... a 10 stam hit on someone that has no rating and little gold, would be a waste of stam...not many are just going to waste their stam for crumbs of gold and very little pvp/xp ( i am assuming that a person with zero pvp/xp would only provide the attacker with a very small bit of pvp/xp..making not worth the stam to hit...so that would end the thought that farming of players for gold would be rampant..think about it..100stam hit for , let says 10k-20k gold and little pvp/xp..would players actually do that ? i would think not... it would take 1000 stam to get 1 fsp worth of gold..not a good ratio..players are only going to hit someone that has lots of gold, or some/lots of pvp/xp, and that is that person fault for carrying that much gold...plenty of quick ways to get rid of lots of gold..

 

prestige...who cares how much prestige can be farmed..if a person can only get prestige every 3 days...they wont be hitting someone over and over...except once every 3 days...i see no problem with that..

Edited by yodamus, 11 October 2014 - 14:42.

[BadPenny]

You know what... just forget I said anything.  I'm trying to make a difference and it seems I'm getting nowhere.  Forget I said anything at all...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On second thought, remember I said this:

 

HCS wants to remove XP loss completely from PvP... This includes the Bounty Board.  People are saying they want XP loss to stay for punishment purposes.  I'm trying to offer a solution here.  I don't mind constructive criticism, but please, if you must shoot me down, try doing it gently... and try adding a constructive suggestion of your own.  All I know is a double PvP system is too confusing and won't work... Everybody is clamoring to keep XP loss... I see it in bios everywhere.  You got a better solution, let's hear it...

 

 

To the rest of you... thanks for your questions.  I will try to answer them to the best of my ability.  

Edited by BadPenny, 11 October 2014 - 18:00.

[shindrak]

I don't know why would people want to keep punishment.. why do you need to punish someone in game?

because he/she stole your gold? YOU need to get punished for holding too much gold...

because they aren't following your unwritten pvp rules? i wont answer this because it would be rude lol

Edited by shindrak, 12 October 2014 - 19:30.

[Pardoux]

stuff ...

 

and prestige should be earned, not traded.

 

SHOULD and ARE are different matters tho in a lot of cases. I still get "hitting for prestige, feel free to hit back with no penalty" messages.

 

so there's still plenty of trading going on ..

[BadPenny]

Ok, people, let's not discuss the merits or lack thereof of prestige "harvesting".  I do it, and I think it's a marvelous leveling tool.  Granted, I get about half mine from bounty hunting, but still, I always start my hunts at a level or more down.  Yeah, folks don't like to be hit, and yeah, I steal gold... But the majority of the bounties placed on me are for prestige kills.  Which sucks, since I only take a few XP and a pittance of gold, when conserve doesn't kick in... EVERY THIRD DAY.... there is no potential for bullying or harassment with prestige kills.... Ya gotta hit hourly to make any impact, and even then they gotta be 100 stams, people.... So, why the big deal?  Is it so bad to use the system in the way it was intended?  I think not.  Which is why I think prestige should be immune from bounties... I mean, what exactly would we be punishing for that?  Did YOU lose anything?  No, you didn't, not really..

 

 

Thanks for letting me share.

Edited by BadPenny, 13 October 2014 - 17:45.

[bigchaos]

I know this is sort of off topic but I have a question if we lose xp loss how do eoc players go down in levels from where they are? I have seen this done in bb used to drop  levels to be able to play again.  I understand that xp loss will be removed from game hcs stated so. I am thinking having two type systems in pvping is rather confusing. I am reading all the threads on this topic. I thought I post some questions mostly because I am not convinced that we have a good solution. I feel that bb needs to be active and is based as a way to punish those that decide to steal gold, pvp and taking of xp in general is what it is based on.  I also understand prestige and this is part of the system.  I also agree we need to fix this part of the game.  

 

I do not understand all the other junk of slamming other peoples view in the community. I think we are a strong community and it seems to me with all of us voicing ideas to help hcs come up with a good solution to try.  

 

@BadPenny keep doing this thread in answering questions because I have a lot and hope we find concerns and get them addressed maybe a solution for the best way to update the system is not far behind. 

 

I like the idea in original post that xp can be lost on bb and the streamlining the loss would satisfy both sides but I think we need more input on 10 stamina hits and 100 stamina hits. 

Edited by bigchaos, 13 October 2014 - 23:44.

[Trailman]

BG stated in one of the other threads that even if they remove xp loss from PvP you will still lose xp from creatures if you lose to them.