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How do you feel about composed potions?


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Poll: Composing Potions Power Level (37 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think the current upper limit of composed potion powers is good for game balance?

  1. Yes (20 votes [54.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.05%

  2. No (12 votes [32.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.43%

  3. Don't Know (5 votes [13.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.51%

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#21 BadPenny

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 00:32

Commons and rares are easy, granted, I can gather them myself and grab some XP at the same time, so I make and SL/Lib/LF/Consv pot.  That uses a lot of uniques.  If you think they are so easy to farm, you go snag me some, because I expend a lot of stam with little return on the unique items.  I use the correct buffs, I know what I'm doing.  I depend on the frags in the reward chests.  And tbh, I may use some powerful buffs when I can someday.  But what's wrong with that.  It's a fantasy game, let us have some god like qualities.  Sure, some are ahead of others, but it's a choice we have, just like hunting cave potions or playing the arena for that, or just buying same in the AH.  Options are a good thing.....   Best to fix something that is broken, like the ladder, just for example.   That's something everybody might be able to agree upon, instead of making haves and have nots..... I'm sorry, I have a lot of respect for you, but I disagree here..... I hope you understand :)


Edited by BadPenny, 11 March 2015 - 00:33.

Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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#22 steveanaya

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 02:31

I agree with penny, if you spend as much as some composers to get beyond level 50, you deserve to have access to the best stuff. I've been working on my composing since September when I came back as well and have hit level 15 also. At this point I feel like I've spent so much time and fsp leveling up my composing, and I'm nowhere near the end game composers. Their work is to be respected, and it's my belief that they deserve access to what they have. I don't believe skills were meant to stay at 175 forever.

#23 3JS

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 05:56

Commons and rares are easy, granted, I can gather them myself and grab some XP at the same time, so I make and SL/Lib/LF/Consv pot.  That uses a lot of uniques.  If you think they are so easy to farm, you go snag me some, because I expend a lot of stam with little return on the unique items.  I use the correct buffs, I know what I'm doing.  I depend on the frags in the reward chests.  And tbh, I may use some powerful buffs when I can someday.  But what's wrong with that.  It's a fantasy game, let us have some god like qualities.  Sure, some are ahead of others, but it's a choice we have, just like hunting cave potions or playing the arena for that, or just buying same in the AH.  Options are a good thing.....   Best to fix something that is broken, like the ladder, just for example.   That's something everybody might be able to agree upon, instead of making haves and have nots..... I'm sorry, I have a lot of respect for you, but I disagree here..... I hope you understand :)

While mostly on the fence about frags, composing, etc...I highlighted something here that I'd like to touch on.

 

Composing, and especially getting to the higher levels, is meant to be a challenge. If you need a certain type of fragment, then you farm it. If you use all of your stam doing so, then that's the breaks. There's other options, of course. You can create a huge stam bank so you have enough to do everything you want with it, but that's not feasible for most. Bottom line is, you use stamina for everything. Not all of it gives us the return that we'd like, but it's always been this way.

 

This wasn't a knock on penny, by the way. Just highlighted her post as a reference. There's been a lot of posts recently about getting more reward for the same work. Then we complain that the game is too easy. It can't be both ways.



#24 rowbeth

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 06:38

edited.

 

I like to see people living up to their name. After all, with a placebo you are never meant to know what you are actually getting :lol:



#25 rowbeth

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 06:48

I think the difference between overpowered and way too overpowered is irrelevant.

 

If you diminished the composing potions, I struggle to think of any area of the game that would be made harder for almost anyone.

 

The only real problem I see is those who have access to all the extra power then demanding that the game be made harder for those that don't - and that is largely an issue for the forums, as HCS seems to have been sensible enough not to act on such forum complaints in the past.

 

And on the flip side - if you diminished the rewards then I would go back to thinking there is no point in pursuing a very boring and very-slow-levelling aspect of this game.



#26 BadPenny

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 17:35

While mostly on the fence about frags, composing, etc...I highlighted something here that I'd like to touch on.

 

Composing, and especially getting to the higher levels, is meant to be a challenge. If you need a certain type of fragment, then you farm it. If you use all of your stam doing so, then that's the breaks. There's other options, of course. You can create a huge stam bank so you have enough to do everything you want with it, but that's not feasible for most. Bottom line is, you use stamina for everything. Not all of it gives us the return that we'd like, but it's always been this way.

 

This wasn't a knock on penny, by the way. Just highlighted her post as a reference. There's been a lot of posts recently about getting more reward for the same work. Then we complain that the game is too easy. It can't be both ways.

I'm glad you weren't knocking me, I do wish to point out that my post is not complaining in any way.  The pursuit of uniques is one of the few challenges that this game offers me.  Most of it is easy, if not slow paced, such as leveling anything......    I just wanted to point out that composing is a new thing in the grand scheme of things, and there will always be controversy about the potions it can bring at the higher levels.  Since it is such a long drawn out process that costs oodles of stam and $$$, it should be something that gives a little extra bang, even if it is OP pots.......    It's an OPTION.... just like say ummm... Titan Hunting.... How many of you have gotten richer than Scrooge that way?   I didn't.... Should I complain that the $$$ Titan hunters make is OP?  I think not.  I know, apples and oranges.... but the concept remains the same.   Composing pots offer a little imbalance.  It's up to the individual whether it's too imbalanced, but it does keep things interesting, for some, does it not?


Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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~Love, Penny

 

Have you hugged your Quango lately?


#27 Rocknoor

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 18:12

As Penny said "It's an OPTION" A guild mate and I were at level 25 quite awhile ago and we were discussing the merits of making bigger composed potions.  He opted for the bigger potions and is now a level 60 composer.  I like my gold and kept plugging away with 20xp composed potions at 6 Common Fragments each.  Result, he's at level 60 after oodles of fragments and gold expended, I'm at level 38 after not so much gold and fragments expended. OP might as much find fault with double XP events as making it too easy to gain levels, cheapening the hunting experience as players threw tons of FSP at it gaining 100's of levels that they normally wouldn't get.  These composed potions don't throw the game out of balance, the game was already thrown out of balance with the advent of CooA, CooD, and Smashing Hammer. Before those buffs non-set pieces had value in usage and one had to change sets every 10-15 levels, after the introduction of those buffs I use the same hunting set for 150-250 levels and non set pieces (other than Epics) have virtually zero value and are just fodder for fragmenting.


Edited by Rocknoor, 11 March 2015 - 22:09.

 


#28 Pythia

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 19:08

I gather my own frags, compose my own potions and sometimes I send some frags to Yot along with some gold. I see we are not yet to the second tier in the event. I qualified the first day and have been spending my stam daily to get the Ruby chests  containing some of all the frags, for my future composing needs.

 

Gripe, gripe, gripe.  Is that all some of you do?

 

I turned 68 today and am having fun with this game in the winter of my years, because I have more time behind me than I do ahead of me.   I come from a time before, where when you got knocked on your ass, you grabbed  your boot straps, hauled your  ass up off the ground, dusted it off and got on down the road. 

 

What's wrong with you people?  If you can't have, no one can? If you want  something, work for it, like I am.  You have decided I have no right to the ruby  chests because in time I will be able to make BIG potions?

 

You folks are really quite amazing, really you are.

 

Now it's back to spend more stam in hopes of getting ruby.

 

Get to work and work for the good of the community.   Stop crying about what someone else has and go get it for yourself.

 

Oh yeah, I voted, Don't know, in the poll because I really don't know. I have not used many of the potions yet. I like making mine.



#29 BadPenny

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 19:43

I gather my own frags, compose my own potions and sometimes I send some frags to Yot along with some gold. I see we are not yet to the second tier in the event. I qualified the first day and have been spending my stam daily to get the Ruby chests  containing some of all the frags, for my future composing needs.

 

Gripe, gripe, gripe.  Is that all some of you do?

 

I turned 68 today and am having fun with this game in the winter of my years, because I have more time behind me than I do ahead of me.   I come from a time before, where when you got knocked on your ass, you grabbed  your boot straps, hauled your  ass up off the ground, dusted it off and got on down the road. 

 

What's wrong with you people?  If you can't have, no one can? If you want  something, work for it, like I am.  You have decided I have no right to the ruby  chests because in time I will be able to make BIG potions?

 

You folks are really quite amazing, really you are.

 

Now it's back to spend more stam in hopes of getting ruby.

 

Get to work and work for the good of the community.   Stop crying about what someone else has and go get it for yourself.

 

Oh yeah, I voted, Don't know, in the poll because I really don't know. I have not used many of the potions yet. I like making mine.

My sentiments, exactly :)

 

Oh, I will hunt my wraiths and collect my frags as soon as my stam fills.... And, as always, I won't be using GB, because the frags are more important to me than a top 100 slot.  It would be nice to get there, sure, but that's not why I participate, and not why I compose.  I compose because I have that wonderful option.  Will the potions make me more awesome?  Probably.... isn't what we all want anyway in the end?  To be more awesome?   Why does anybody have a problem with that?


Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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~Love, Penny

 

Have you hugged your Quango lately?


#30 Subject

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 19:54

would be nice if composing had an Auto Make type system lol so when im offline at work and not able to log on on the hour to make another pot it would be set to auto make ... i know it wont happen and is why i dont compose.. cause i either forget about Re-making them or i just dont have time to log in and do it.... i know.. i know.. its my problem and wont be changed.. but..  .. .. . .... . ... .  Cheers.!



#31 pinkdude

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 20:04

would be nice if composing had an Auto Make type system lol so when im offline at work and not able to log on on the hour to make another pot it would be set to auto make ... i know it wont happen and is why i dont compose.. cause i either forget about Re-making them or i just dont have time to log in and do it.... i know.. i know.. its my problem and wont be changed.. but..  .. .. . .... . ... .  Cheers.!

 

I've wondered about this. I don't see a reason not to (someone please enlighten me). As long as it costs double the gold and double the time to make. Would sink more gold while still allowing people to progress while offline. Also, if it is made to only use unbanked gold, players would have to take the risk of going offline with lots of gold



#32 BadPenny

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 20:10

would be nice if composing had an Auto Make type system lol so when im offline at work and not able to log on on the hour to make another pot it would be set to auto make ... i know it wont happen and is why i dont compose.. cause i either forget about Re-making them or i just dont have time to log in and do it.... i know.. i know.. its my problem and wont be changed.. but..  .. .. . .... . ... .  Cheers.!

This would be nice, I could sleep through the night and all, but not all of us are honest..... there are too many that would abuse the privilege (bless their hearts) and ruin it for the rest of us.....    


Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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~Love, Penny

 

Have you hugged your Quango lately?


#33 Pardoux

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 20:53

would be nice if composing had an Auto Make type system lol so when im offline at work and not able to log on on the hour to make another pot it would be set to auto make ... i know it wont happen and is why i dont compose.. cause i either forget about Re-making them or i just dont have time to log in and do it.... i know.. i know.. its my problem and wont be changed.. but..  .. .. . .... . ... .  Cheers.!

 

There is one - it's called scripting ;)

 

It's not legal, but I'm 100% convinced it's endemic in various facets of the game ..


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

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#34 Pythia

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 23:39

I have read a lot of posts on here as, Guest.  lol

 

Make me feel right at home they do, remind me of my ex. He used to say how much he liked to help the little people. ( I'm 4'9") He helped himself to all of mine he could get.. lol  What was his was his and what was mine was his.

 

If he knew about this game and come to play, I'd just have pick his pockets like a pro, he does owe me so.  LOL 

 

I get a good laugh out of this place and am having a lot of fun. Hope you are too.



#35 wil72

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 23:56

I have read a lot of posts on here as, Guest.  lol

 

Make me feel right at home they do, remind me of my ex. He used to say how much he liked to help the little people. ( I'm 4'9") He helped himself to all of mine he could get.. lol  What was his was his and what was mine was his.

 

If he knew about this game and come to play, I'd just have pick his pockets like a pro, he does owe me so.  LOL 

 

I get a good laugh out of this place and am having a lot of fun. Hope you are too.

 

Now and again you get a gem of a post in here and this, i have to say, is one of them :)

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

 

Oh, on topic, composing should have been implemented closer to it's original conception. 


Edited by wil72, 12 March 2015 - 00:02.


#36 BigGrim

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 11:34

The advent of CooA, CooD, and Smashing Hammer. Before those buffs non-set pieces had value in usage.


As I recall, the original plan for CooA & CooD was that you had to have nothing but complete sets equipped. I.E. you would need to have a 3 item set equipped as well as the 2 pieces. Not sure why it was not done that way.

would be nice if composing had an Auto Make type system lol so when im offline at work and not able to log on on the hour to make another pot it would be set to auto make.


Sorry but we will not be implementing a queue system.

#37 Belaric

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 13:17

Hey,

 

I'd like to thank everyone for voting and expressing their opinions on this topic, it is much appreciated.

 

I would like to say that at no time am I trying to say Composers do not deserve benefits from putting the work in, far from it, I just think that the benefits don't have to go so far as to be able to create near epic level buffs, especially (for example) in terms of Flinch and Smashing Hammer. A cap at 300 for stat altering buffs would still create many potions that are better than invented pots, and many potions that would be best in class, and be well worth creating.

 

Composing only buffs are excellent and are worth the wait to get there and create.

 

I don't think arguing that the buffs we get now are overkill, so reducing their upper composed limit won't make any difference in the difficulty of the game is entirely useful, as I am considering the effects of these buffs as the game goes forward. But Rowbeth made a very good point in that it isn't HCS that talks about needing to make the game harder, only some voices on the forum, and HCS has not tended to respond to that specific issue. 

 

I do think it is more difficult to make any claim that you want more of a challenge in the game if at the same time you like the idea of the current potion level caps in composing that make killing even high level SE and titans unproblematic. As the majority in this admittedly small sample size seem to do.

 

For a long time, for me personally, the challenge in this game has not been about defeating monsters, but in managing resources. That really means managing stamina. To me this is a stam management game now. I suppose it always was - we only strove to 1 hit in order to be more stam efficient. It has always been about extracting maximum value from stamina available. I thought it worthwhile to ask forum contributors what they thought of composing buff levels as they will impact the ability of the game designers to create statistically challenging creatures going forward. If a majority of players do not mind the absence of that challenge in the game, and view it as a stamina management game also, then there isn't much to be concerned about.

 

I am not worried about my own access to these buffs. I will slowly work my own way up the composing ladder. My guild has access to these buffs when needed now.

 

I suppose my concerns about access to these potions will be resolved by time. Eventually level 50+ composers will be commonplace throughout the game. Until that time there will be a potential disconnect in terms of access to higher level buffs, which will give those with access an advantage over others when facing the most challenging monsters, and when challenging each other. Time will, I hope, solve this issue as high level composers become more widespread. And, those who currently have access can't be penalised simply for having a gung ho composer in their guild. So it is what is is, in effect. I just wish the upper limits weren't quite so god like for some buffs. That would make the discrepancy in access less overwhelming for those currently out of the loop. Scripting involvement in composing is another kettle of fish, but that is for HCS to address. 

 

Thank you again to everyone who has contributed to this thread. 


Edited by Belaric, 12 March 2015 - 13:21.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#38 Mister Doom

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 15:20

As I recall, the original plan for CooA & CooD was that you had to have nothing but complete sets equipped. I.E. you would need to have a 3 item set equipped as well as the 2 pieces. Not sure why it was not done that way.


Sorry but we will not be implementing a queue system.

 

Is there any chance that this could be made to be how it works?

I'm under no delusions about it being a popular idea, it would certainly add a bit more balance to those buffs however.

You know, instead of being one of the four 'all powerful buffs'.

(KE, CoA, CoD, and SH) Although I guess there are a few more that fit that category now too, I just don't see it often as I don't have much use for armour.


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#39 BadPenny

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 15:36

Please, leave my awesomeness buffs alone..... 


Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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~Love, Penny

 

Have you hugged your Quango lately?


#40 RebornJedi

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 15:37

As I recall, the original plan for CooA & CooD was that you had to have nothing but complete sets equipped. I.E. you would need to have a 3 item set equipped as well as the 2 pieces. Not sure why it was not done that way.

probably because every level range doesn't have that possibility so it would of been a useless buff for a lot of levels until new equipment was added..


 



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