we can spend 20 aps and get 20x the mining xp
we can spend 250 aps and get 250x the mining xp
what do you guys want? be able to spend 250x6 ap and get 1500x the mining xp? what difference would it make?
Doubler
Started by
gothador_xindi
, Aug 15 2007 16:48
143 replies to this topic
#22
Debrutsid
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Debrutsid
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 17:42
And another update, Pyrrhus has informed me that it does not affect mining XP/AP.
does that really matter?
i mean we pretty much have the option anyway?
Err... why complain about information?
It does matter, because I imagine that miners/foragers/smelters/orbers would want to know if it affects what they do primarily as well.
#23
Debrutsid
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 17:43
Also, it does not affect GP/PP dropped in PvP
#24
morwen
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 17:44
HOW would it affect the miners though?
i mean would they rather spend 6times the ap for the same amount of bars and more xp? doesnt make sense to me
i mean would they rather spend 6times the ap for the same amount of bars and more xp? doesnt make sense to me
#25
gothador_xindi
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 17:52
before doubler
17:45 15/08/07
after doubler:
I don't see that it is affecting anything.
17:45 15/08/07
While mining, you killed several mine critters gaining a total of 66 xp. (Mine Warrior+)
17:45 15/08/07
You attempt to mine 5 times and extracted 5 x Raw Crystal. You gain 300x2 = 600 mining xp (Master Miner).
17:45 15/08/07
While mining, you killed several mine critters gaining a total of 96 xp. (Mine Warrior+)
17:45 15/08/07
You attempt to mine 5 times and extracted 5 x Raw Crystal. You gain 300x2 = 600 mining xp (Master Miner).
after doubler:
17:42 15/08/07
While mining, you killed several mine critters gaining a total of 96 xp. (Mine Warrior+)
17:42 15/08/07
You attempt to mine 5 times and extracted 5 x Raw Crystal. You gain 300x2 = 600 mining xp (Master Miner).
17:42 15/08/07
While mining, you killed several mine critters gaining a total of 85 xp. (Mine Warrior+)
17:42 15/08/07
You attempt to mine 5 times and extracted 5 x Raw Crystal. You gain 300x2 = 600 mining xp (Master Miner).
I don't see that it is affecting anything.
#26
morwen
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 17:54
put it would be pointless if it did affect it really...
this is a ways for the rest to hunt FASTER. same ap an xp ratio pretty much
Speed isnt exactly an issue for miners, not when it comes to mining anyway
can someone please explain how youd want it to affect mining?
this is a ways for the rest to hunt FASTER. same ap an xp ratio pretty much
Speed isnt exactly an issue for miners, not when it comes to mining anyway
can someone please explain how youd want it to affect mining?
#27
gothador_xindi
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 17:59
If it affects all other aspects of the game play it is reasonable to expect it to affect mining/smelting/foraging/orbing. That is what we are testing, or thats what I was doing anyhow.
Personnally if it was going to affect anything of the mine/smelt numbers I think it should be on the xp that is attributed to regular levels, ie from mine warrior+. This however is such a tiny amount of xp that it would not be worth the ap at all. I do not think it should affect material gain as we have advanced skill points for that.
So yes you are right there isn't much point, but it is nice to know one way or the other imo. :wink:
Personnally if it was going to affect anything of the mine/smelt numbers I think it should be on the xp that is attributed to regular levels, ie from mine warrior+. This however is such a tiny amount of xp that it would not be worth the ap at all. I do not think it should affect material gain as we have advanced skill points for that.
So yes you are right there isn't much point, but it is nice to know one way or the other imo. :wink:
#28
morwen
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:02
how would it affect the amount of mine warrior xp at all?
#29
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:13
It wouldn't make sense for it to affect other aspects of the game :?
#30
gothador_xindi
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:14
:roll: it doesn't, and it probably shouldn't, and it would surely be worhtless if it did.... the point was more what isisxotic said:
It goes to the whole debate of the playability of miners and all that jazz. I'm not going to go into it as that is an old and boring discussion that nobody cares about anyhow.
My intrest was mostly in what exactly does the doubler change or not change when I am playing.
Why should it affect hunting xp and wisdom xp (damaging and casting, main purposes of warriors and mages) but not give mining xp, when mining is supposedly the main purpose of miners?
It goes to the whole debate of the playability of miners and all that jazz. I'm not going to go into it as that is an old and boring discussion that nobody cares about anyhow.
My intrest was mostly in what exactly does the doubler change or not change when I am playing.
#31
gothador_bonnthebard
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:17
Yeah, this does seem pretty straightforward to me... with the exception of the mention of PP. :?
Basically, it affects general vialed or unvialed hunting. I tested a level 2 doubler enchant while blasting some crocs. The enchant does nothing for your XP/AP ratio, but it doubles the AP cost for a multistrike/cast (not sure about single strike). It also doubles the MP you use if you're casting. Then, the tradeoff is that the creature offers double the XP and double the gold dropped (or platinum where applicable? :shock: )
The end result is that it will take you half of the amount of real time to locate/ move/ kill than it would without the enchant. This is highly useful in the case of, say Hybrid Condi's, since I gave up hunting them a while ago because, even though they're the highest XP/AP ratio I get for melee, it was taking way too long to sit there and burn through a vial; my vial would run out long before my AP did. Now, toss me a lvl 10 or 20 doubler enchant, and I'll probably go through an USP in way less than 15 mins, whilst getting optimum XP/AP for those critters.
Quite simply, the enchant so rocks! 8)
And yes, it does make perfect sense that it would affect sorcery XP, and although I haven't tried it... I'm guessing that you would end up gaining twice the amount of wisdom from trogging... sweeet!
And yeah, your AP spent would double as well, which would give you no net gain except for the real-time it takes to trog. I'll take it!
Now, one situation where you'd not want to use this enchant is when killing low-XP creatures for a quest, or when drop-hunting.
Similarly, it would make zero sense for it to affect mining, smelting, orbing, foraging, or platinum exchanging. As was mentioned, hitting the x20 button has always been the same as this new enchant: you pay more AP to get more stuff. The ratio is exactly the same!
Think of the doubler as a kind of multi-hunt skill.
And yes, still no friggin' clue what platinum has to do with it.
Basically, it affects general vialed or unvialed hunting. I tested a level 2 doubler enchant while blasting some crocs. The enchant does nothing for your XP/AP ratio, but it doubles the AP cost for a multistrike/cast (not sure about single strike). It also doubles the MP you use if you're casting. Then, the tradeoff is that the creature offers double the XP and double the gold dropped (or platinum where applicable? :shock: )
The end result is that it will take you half of the amount of real time to locate/ move/ kill than it would without the enchant. This is highly useful in the case of, say Hybrid Condi's, since I gave up hunting them a while ago because, even though they're the highest XP/AP ratio I get for melee, it was taking way too long to sit there and burn through a vial; my vial would run out long before my AP did. Now, toss me a lvl 10 or 20 doubler enchant, and I'll probably go through an USP in way less than 15 mins, whilst getting optimum XP/AP for those critters.
Quite simply, the enchant so rocks! 8)
And yes, it does make perfect sense that it would affect sorcery XP, and although I haven't tried it... I'm guessing that you would end up gaining twice the amount of wisdom from trogging... sweeet!
And yeah, your AP spent would double as well, which would give you no net gain except for the real-time it takes to trog. I'll take it! Now, one situation where you'd not want to use this enchant is when killing low-XP creatures for a quest, or when drop-hunting.
Similarly, it would make zero sense for it to affect mining, smelting, orbing, foraging, or platinum exchanging. As was mentioned, hitting the x20 button has always been the same as this new enchant: you pay more AP to get more stuff. The ratio is exactly the same!
Think of the doubler as a kind of multi-hunt skill.
And yes, still no friggin' clue what platinum has to do with it.
#32
morwen
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:21
way i see it
You have a creature that normally takes 10 aps and you get 1000 xp and drops 100 gold
you use a maxed doubler enchantment
creature now takes 60 aps you get 6000 xp and you get 600 gold.
the only thing that changes the xp/ap ratio is the aps youd normally spend walking between said creatures
(i.e. another thing that helps titans)
SO, miners already have a way of doing this pretty much, and there is really no way this enchant can affect miners any differently.
their doubler has a much higher multiplier than ours (250)
So please, dont act as if miners are left out cause theyre not.
You have a creature that normally takes 10 aps and you get 1000 xp and drops 100 gold
you use a maxed doubler enchantment
creature now takes 60 aps you get 6000 xp and you get 600 gold.
the only thing that changes the xp/ap ratio is the aps youd normally spend walking between said creatures
(i.e. another thing that helps titans)
SO, miners already have a way of doing this pretty much, and there is really no way this enchant can affect miners any differently.
their doubler has a much higher multiplier than ours (250)
So please, dont act as if miners are left out cause theyre not.
#33
gothador_xindi
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:28
Morwen I have no clue what you are talking about w/ the miners already have a doubler?... cause the x250 button is not doubled or whatever, and no I do not want it to be. A miner still has to spend the same amount of time hunting to level up as a mage or warrior (more actually but that doesn't matter)
twasn't the point an I don't care. I actually like this enchantment. It seems to have been well thought out, some of us were just curious and wanted to know exactly which areas it affected, and for something brand new that was resonable to be curious about.
Yep, I like this one, so much so I'm going to go rave about it where that discussion belongs.
twasn't the point an I don't care. I actually like this enchantment. It seems to have been well thought out, some of us were just curious and wanted to know exactly which areas it affected, and for something brand new that was resonable to be curious about.
Yep, I like this one, so much so I'm going to go rave about it where that discussion belongs.
#34
gothador_tolangardh
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:33
I think the intent of the testing and posting was to check to see whether the enchantment would affect what happens when you click one of the mining buttons.
Think how you might feel if you had the enchantment running, wanted to mine a little before leaving the mine and going hunting. You only want to spend 250 AP, click Mine and all of a sudden you used ALL of your available AP. That wouldn't be fun - not a true disaster, but spoils your plans.
We now know that mining, smelting, orb making and foraging are unaffected (as are all associated effects from other skills).
Think how you might feel if you had the enchantment running, wanted to mine a little before leaving the mine and going hunting. You only want to spend 250 AP, click Mine and all of a sudden you used ALL of your available AP. That wouldn't be fun - not a true disaster, but spoils your plans.
We now know that mining, smelting, orb making and foraging are unaffected (as are all associated effects from other skills).
#35
morwen
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:36
Morwen I have no clue what you are talking about w/ the miners already have a doubler?... cause the x250 button is not doubled or whatever, and no I do not want it to be. A miner still has to spend the same amount of time hunting to level up as a mage or warrior (more actually but that doesn't matter)
Its the exactly same thing
they have the option to spend 250x the amount of ap tp get 250x the amount of mining xp, 250x the amount of mine warrior xp and 250x the amount of bars
A miner can get the doubler enchant, kill creatures and hunt 6 times as fast. Just like everyone else.
I dont think anyone is ranting or raving about it, unless you are. We are discussing how it works, and this is just the thread for that.Yep, I like this one, so much so I'm going to go rave about it where that discussion belongs.
Think how you might feel if you had the enchantment running, wanted to mine a little before leaving the mine and going hunting. You only want to spend 250 AP, click Mine and all of a sudden you used ALL of your available AP. That wouldn't be fun - not a true disaster, but spoils your plans.
It used to be like that, burn ALL your aps in one go, but then it was changed to 250 aps cause someone complained or something
#36
DocSooty
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:36
I think the intent of the testing and posting was to check to see whether the enchantment would affect what happens when you click one of the mining buttons.
Think how you might feel if you had the enchantment running, wanted to mine a little before leaving the mine and going hunting. You only want to spend 250 AP, click Mine and all of a sudden you used ALL of your available AP. That wouldn't be fun - not a true disaster, but spoils your plans.
We now know that mining, smelting, orb making and foraging are unaffected (as are all associated effects from other skills).
I don't think Hoof's stupid enough to put that in. Its like making the doubler move you 2 squares left instead of 1.
Common sense people!
-Doc
#37
gothador_xindi
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:44
It used to be like that, burn ALL your aps in one go, but then it was changed to 250 aps cause someone complained or something
it was changed because it was broken and not giving the bars for the ap, not simply because someone complained.
#38
morwen
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:46
It used to be like that, burn ALL your aps in one go, but then it was changed to 250 aps cause someone complained or something
it was changed because it was broken and not giving the bars for the ap, not simply because someone complained.
If you say so... i wasnt playing at the time.
#39
gothador_tolangardh
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:50
I wasn't implying that this would be doing something "stupid" from the programming end of things. Unexpected consequences can arise from good ideas.
A mage who has decent Attack (from items) but not good enough Damage to get through the creature's AC can click on Multi-Strike and burn all of his AP doing 1 HP of damage each hit - accidently misclicked once and burned well over a 100 AP taking me down to 1 AP. I got Multi-Strike before I decided what sub-class I wanted to be and it's burned me once. Life happens and it was my misclick.
I like the enchantment for the idea of being able to save time. I won't use it often as I like the challenge of running around and hunting for everything individually, but I am also not having issues with vials running out too soon.
A mage who has decent Attack (from items) but not good enough Damage to get through the creature's AC can click on Multi-Strike and burn all of his AP doing 1 HP of damage each hit - accidently misclicked once and burned well over a 100 AP taking me down to 1 AP. I got Multi-Strike before I decided what sub-class I wanted to be and it's burned me once. Life happens and it was my misclick.
I like the enchantment for the idea of being able to save time. I won't use it often as I like the challenge of running around and hunting for everything individually, but I am also not having issues with vials running out too soon.
#40
Skallagrime
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 19:06
HOW would it affect the miners though?
i mean would they rather spend 6times the ap for the same amount of bars and more xp? doesnt make sense to me
YES!!!!! we would
it would mean no more of THIS shite
Item Name Kunzite Ore Item Type Ore
Quantity 14405
Item Name Nagyagite Ore Item Type Ore
Quantity 20629
Item Name Raw Datolite Item Type Ore
Quantity 30249
Item Name Datolite Crystal Item Type Bar
Quantity 35155
Item Name Nagyagite Bar Item Type Bar
Quantity 7917
Item Name Spore Essence Item Type Bar
Quantity 29018
look at it, if i could have divided the number of bars there by 6 and cut my ap expenditure even in half i'd still have too much in the way of bars and ores, mind you this crap has been sitting for near on TWO friging years, thats without the extra ores/bars skills
we get a new enchantment for miners to give to their owner mages and miners at no benefit to themselves, call me cranky and kvetchy but that sodding sucks
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