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#21 DragonLord

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 23:28

Ladder isn't one competition, it is various attacks, meaning you have a chance to redeem yourself. In arena, you flat out lose.

Levelling isn't even a competition.

I see where you are going with this, but it is flawed logic


Levelling isn't a competition, I agree - its more of a race, but the principal is, those that level, take part because it's the aspect of the game they like. They don't expect "bonus" rewards from it just for participating.

Of course the ladder is a competition - you can enter that, but, unless you know exactly when the reset is going to happen, you have no idea if you'll win or not.

You want something for "nothing". I can easily enter "x" x 5K entry fee arenas with absolutely NO intention of even trying to win - and I'd get a L200 potion for that ? Methinks that, yes, the arenas would fill up more quickly, but for all the wrong reasons :). The chance of a reward (and medals) is the determining factor and a LOT of those are pretty lucrative. IMO, further "rewards" are simply not necessary.

#22 2good4u222

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 23:36

Like I said, I agree no more rewards are necessary. It was just an idea.

Levelling is quite the opposite though, t is apart of the problem. And the ladder has an hourly break, so it is possible to predict a victory or not.

#23 2good4u222

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 23:37

If, though, you have a valid idea to reduce the market place inflation, by all means post away!

#24 Wesleysdf

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 23:41

As said before on other threads, I think some upgrades for gold would be very cool. Instead of reducing the aumont of fsps ingame it would reduce the gold overall, obviously :wink:

The fsp price @marketplace is just insane

#25 DragonLord

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 23:42

If, though, you have a valid idea to reduce the market place inflation, by all means post away!


Plenty of ideas have been suggested in the past - some with amazing levels of (player) support ..

1. Forging / Crafting with JUST gold rather than FSP and Gold

2. Special, bound items, that can be bought in random stores throughout the realms with gold

3. Decent creatures / drop chances in the scavenging caves. I know I scavenge less and less now because new creatures keep appearing in there but the "less desirable" ones remain, thereby dramatically reducing chances of finding the worthwhile ones.

4. Allow players to sell gold back to the game - but at 2x market rate to prevent "abuse"

There's a myriad of options - but most probably won't see the light of day due to them affecting the cows income (namely, 1 and 4)

#26 2good4u222

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 23:57

Forget 1 and 4 then, and start campaigning for options such as 2 and 4. Thank you for the ideas, if you have anymore please post them!

#27 lordthade

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:55

>>The sudden rise might be effect of global quest potions?<<

Ding! Ding! Ding!!

Dbl1500 part of the recent global reward. ;-)


If you want to sink gold (as we've gone over many times) stop blaming PvP protection. Be honest and say you want to hit more people-- that's fine. But sinking gold is RIDICULOUSLY more effective through guild structures, portals, potions in the AH, and other means.

We need some creatures in the caves. Period. Or a new cave. Or both.

Stop hating PvP protection. It's (and I'm doing my best!) keeping the market DOWN, if anything.

#28 Lutrafs

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:38

Here is a thought.

Bare in mind its just a thought and nothing more.

Why doesnt HCS remove all gold from creatures for a week, maybe even longer.

As more and more gold goes out of the game creatures begin to get some of their gold back, but in stages.

So for example:

all creatures have 0 gold to start with

After say a week for every 1 million gold removed from the game (by repairs, scavenging, forging, or any other gold sink I cant think of atm) 1 gold is added back to each creature up until that creature is maxed of course.

Yes I know many will not like this idea, but it will get the market place down, sink some gold, and give people a reason to be a bit more careful with their on hand gold.

Maybe the numbers should be different I dont pretend to know how much gold is coming into and out of the game, but this could be like a global event, only instead of killing creatures its a global event to kill gold.

#29 Lutrafs

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:42

Also They could take and make some lvl 200 potions available with various buffs throughout the realms for a cost of say 1 million gold each potion.

and spread them through many different realms so you have to spend more gold to get to them.

Most importantly make them bound so that 1 person cant go and buy a ton of them and send them to friends or post in ah and sell them.

#30 2good4u222

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:18

Also They could take and make some lvl 200 potions available with various buffs throughout the realms for a cost of say 1 million gold each potion.

and spread them through many different realms so you have to spend more gold to get to them.

Most importantly make them bound so that 1 person cant go and buy a ton of them and send them to friends or post in ah and sell them.


I like the idea, but it is already basically in loyalty rewards, and would cause them to be pointless.

#31 DragonLord

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:24

Also They could take and make some lvl 200 potions available with various buffs throughout the realms for a cost of say 1 million gold each potion.

and spread them through many different realms so you have to spend more gold to get to them.

Most importantly make them bound so that 1 person cant go and buy a ton of them and send them to friends or post in ah and sell them.


I like the idea, but it is already basically in loyalty rewards, and would cause them to be pointless.


Pointless ? - surely that would depend on what the potions actually were ?? ;) - if they don't duplicate or beat loyalty potions, then they're not pointless.

#32 2good4u222

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:35

Also They could take and make some lvl 200 potions available with various buffs throughout the realms for a cost of say 1 million gold each potion.

and spread them through many different realms so you have to spend more gold to get to them.

Most importantly make them bound so that 1 person cant go and buy a ton of them and send them to friends or post in ah and sell them.


I like the idea, but it is already basically in loyalty rewards, and would cause them to be pointless.


Pointless ? - surely that would depend on what the potions actually were ?? ;) - if they don't duplicate or beat loyalty potions, then they're not pointless.


Sorry, a bit off today! I was referring back to things like AL and Conserve >< But if they want to create pots of other things, then yes!

#33 Savanc

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:19

Here is a thought.
Bare in mind its just a thought and nothing more.
Why doesnt HCS remove all gold from creatures for a week, maybe even longer.
As more and more gold goes out of the game creatures begin to get some of their gold back, but in stages.

Wouldn't it be easier to change the cap of gold per creature to a lower level?

At this moment the "gold from creature"-system is like this:[*:pox4e2xj]The creatures below level 330 give on average 1 gold per level (so a level 240 creature gives on average 240 gold if you kill it, and a level 60 creatures gives on average 60 gold per stamina). There are some deviations from this, but they are minor.
[*:pox4e2xj]From level 331 onward the gold per creature is capped at an average of 300 gold per creature.(In the rest of this post I'll treat the level 301-330 creatures as if they only give 300 gold per creature to make the calculations easier. The effect of the 1-30 extra gold is really small anyway on the total gold inflow.)

If the gold cap was applied at level 200 or 250 then a lot less gold would come into the game, while it wouldn't affect the lower level players.

Gold from creatures is about the only way gold comes into the game (the 2 mil Temple isn't much compared to gold from creatures, and the PvP Arena gold rewards are actually a gold sink because participants pay more on total fees than the reward is, so it's a net gold sink).

I don't know how many players are below level 200/250, how many are between 200/250 and 300 and how many are above 300, but I can only make some educated guesses. (see below for a few thoughts) I'd put the inflow of gold from level 300+ players at around 75% of total gold inflow, the share of level 250-300 players at 5% and the share of level 200-250 players at around 5%, which leaves 15% for the level 1-200 players.

If gold would be capped at level 200 that would reduce the inflow of gold by around 25%.
If gold would be capped at
level 250 that would reduce the inflow of gold by around 13%.
(for calculations see below)

A lower gold inflow would lead to lower MP prices.
And because the lower level players will still get the same amount of gold, they will be able to buy more FSPs with them. 8)




(1) Estimating gold inflow per level group:[*:pox4e2xj]Higher level players (level 300+) generally have more stam gain and more often buy current stam upgrades.
[*:pox4e2xj]Higher level players use more stamina on levelling instead of plant farming, GvG, buff selling, SE/Titan hunting, PvP, stam overflow.
[*:pox4e2xj]There may be a lot of lower level players (1-200), but activity may be less than with other players and they only get 100 gold per creature on average.So the effect of higher level players on gold inflow will probably be significantly bigger than their percentage of the FS population.

(2) Cap at 200:
Level 1-200 players keep their amount of gold per creature, so 15% of gold inflow is unaffected.
Level 200-300 players will lose on average 50 gold per creature (it was 250), so a drop of 20% on 10% of the gold inflow = 2% drop.
Level 300+ players will lose 100 gold per creature (it was 300), so a drop of 33.33% on 75% of the gold inflow = 25% drop.
Estimated total decrease of gold inflow: 27%

(3) Cap at 250:
Level 1-250 players keep their amount of gold per creature, so 20% of gold inflow is unaffected.
Level 250-300 players will lose on average 25 gold per creature (it was 275), so a drop of 9.09% on 5% of the gold inflow = 0.45% drop.
Level 300+ players will lose 50 gold per creature (it was 300), so a drop of 16.67% on 75% of the gold inflow = 12.5% drop.
Estimated total decrease of gold inflow: 12.95%

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#34 Undjuvion

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:51

@Savanc's post previous to this post,.. possibly the best idea in my opinion from a long list of proposals that i have read, cap it at 200...

#35 celendais

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:13

Savanc: with players online dwindling the gold flowing into game is probably not from level 100-300 ish anyway , since those are the levels where inactivity is epidemic.
not sure if its a influx or outflow problem or both, you would have to sit on HCS statistics to tell .

Anyway what I wanted to say was that anyone knowing anything about marketplace manipulation ( where I can only assume the gold you make goes into scavenging caves and hence converted back to FSP that way) should submit support tickets. Thats the only way to make sure HCS sees it.

#36 MummRa

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:26

Savanc: with players online dwindling the gold flowing into game is probably not from level 100-300 ish anyway , since those are the levels where inactivity is epidemic.
not sure if its a influx or outflow problem or both, you would have to sit on HCS statistics to tell .

Anyway what I wanted to say was that anyone knowing anything about marketplace manipulation ( where I can only assume the gold you make goes into scavenging caves and hence converted back to FSP that way) should submit support tickets. Thats the only way to make sure HCS sees it.


Problem is that the manipulation that has been spoken of is not against the rules. For the most part the idea of manipulation is around two concepts

1. Users who have pvp protection who aren't afraid of being hit placing large fsp requests at high rates and just waiting for those to be the lowest. Idea being those that don't have protection will need to make higher requests because they don't want to be hit.

2. The ability to cancel a request and place a higher one if yours is not the highest. Tied in with problem 1 it can be seen why other than during an event the MP does not seem to go down

My own thoughts I can see why this is a problem but it's not the only problem there are obviously a lot of factors that go to the market place's current state.

#37 Undjuvion

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:37

Savanc: with players online dwindling the gold flowing into game is probably not from level 100-300 ish anyway , since those are the levels where inactivity is epidemic.


it would work further than that, the most anyone above lvl200(if thats where the cap was set) would be(even up to lvl 1400 players) what a lvl 200 would make, it would reduce gold into the game according to Savanc's estimates by 25ish %,

faster and constantly better than scavenging, id guess more than structures,,

furthermore(only the cows would know), if gold got closer to how much was being sunk the marketplace could theoretically stay motionless or if it were enough could even make the market place only head downwards,. only the cows know how much gold in game is increasing by percentage wise.

the more that is sunk though the more worthless fsp becomes, less donations.



Savanc: with players online dwindling the gold flowing into game is probably not from level 100-300 ish anyway , since those are the levels where inactivity is epidemic.
not sure if its a influx or outflow problem or both, you would have to sit on HCS statistics to tell .

Anyway what I wanted to say was that anyone knowing anything about marketplace manipulation ( where I can only assume the gold you make goes into scavenging caves and hence converted back to FSP that way) should submit support tickets. Thats the only way to make sure HCS sees it.


Problem is that the manipulation that has been spoken of is not against the rules. For the most part the idea of manipulation is around two concepts

1. Users who have pvp protection who aren't afraid of being hit placing large fsp requests at high rates and just waiting for those to be the lowest. Idea being those that don't have protection will need to make higher requests because they don't want to be hit.

2. The ability to cancel a request and place a higher one if yours is not the highest. Tied in with problem 1 it can be seen why other than during an event the MP does not seem to go down

My own thoughts I can see why this is a problem but it's not the only problem there are obviously a lot of factors that go to the market place's current state.



i think there are factors also, who really knows the extent of the marketplace manipulation.

#38 BigGrim

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:54

Stuff!


I quite like that. I'll see what Hoofmaster thinks.

#39 celendais

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 13:04

the more that is sunk though the more worthless fsp becomes, less donations.

mmmm. 415 players online ....

Well as far as I can recall gold sinks have been an eternal discussion so my guess is HCS are not happy with FSP@225K gold either. why? Cause that high a rate makes a normal progress in game too tough> people quit > no donations at all.

The slow steady progress on your character at those gold rates is doubled compared to when I started .

#40 Undjuvion

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 13:13



the more that is sunk though the more worthless fsp becomes, less donations.

mmmm. 415 players online ....

Well as far as I can recall gold sinks have been an eternal discussion so my guess is HCS are not happy with FSP@225K gold either. why? Cause that high a rate makes a normal progress in game too tough> people quit > no donations at all.

The slow steady progress on your character at those gold rates is doubled compared to when I started .



i probably could have been clearer, i have bad structuring when laying things out, i meant in regards to if gold sunk gets to the point where its relative inflow is similar, it cant be predicted how low gold to fsp could exchange but not 'likely' in this case, although im not a numbers man, i was really more saying that part as more of a random thought, just threw it in there.


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