39 replies to this topic

[Chazz224]

Summary :

 

1. Proposed New Crystaline gear for all Ladder Players with higher stats introduced low durability for all levels

2. PvP Potions ( must be bound to player I feel) Potions should consist of level 250 to level 300 high buffs eg KE 250 - DC 300 - AL 300 - Smashing hammer 300 etc and so on. Make it challenging but not all so game breaking either.

3. Increased transfer of PvP Prestige - also increased limit from current 10% to perhaps 50% - This should be based off of stam usage and attacks while on ladder opposed to PvP coin transfer - So by doing so encourages activity - Plus the ability to re-gain levels.

4. New Medal for being apart of the PvP ladder - adds some incentive as well

5. Creating new Medals for outside bounty board attacks such as a Master Thief medal perhaps or a Most Wanted medal for player posted so many time x = must equal a greatly high number (just a thought)

6. GvG Ladder Resets was suggested in a quaterly fashion ( eg once every 3 months also should award new guild medals for such. This will keep that ladder also active and pumping.

7. Suggested ideas for off the bounty board attacks but keeping the bounty board populated - In the world of GvG there are attack spans eg level 25 thru 300 25 level range of attack + /-  However for the purpose of PvP attacks are limted to + or - 10 levels from levels 25 thru 1999 so far - let's alter that possibly to talor fit GvG's attack range ( Just a thought) will help people gain medals and such - also stimulate activity across all leveling fields while keeping it fair as well - just implementing some caution while hunting is all.

 

As before this is an on going topic open to change and compromise - What is 100% agreed on so far is that we are looking for increased incentives to get people back into the game - and create a demand to make them wanna partcipate more often then they already do.

 

Please comment positivly and feel free to suggest more ideas or offer corrections to current ideas but follow corrections with your beliefs as to why something should change and how it would improve.

 

- Thank you

Chazz

Edited by Chazz224, 11 February 2014 - 17:19.

[Belaric]

I think prestige beyond 15% would be too much, and keep the 10-15% range as a token only benefit to entice folk in. EDIT I have no issue with this being token based, and would prefer it to be so as we need to find uses for tokens so by being burned up they become more desirable. Introducing a new mechanic for gaining it on the ladder also makes it harder to introduce - lets keep the dev's job simple.

 

I think token exchanges for increased prestige duration would be a huge draw.

 

Crystal gear - a line of real Gurgriss' crystal - warrior gear built for victory that actually kicks ass, but is brittle. He wants further blessings of his to be earned after all! 2 Piece att/dam sets def/dam sets with dam dominant across a bunch of level ranges would be very attractive I think. arm/dam is just less attractive to me personally - but go for it - I know other players would find excellent use for it.

 

I think a Gold Thief medal has been discussed before. I used to be ambivalent - now I think why not - as hits for gold are a basic game activity, and is easily measurable by existing game mechanics, so should be simple to implement. The question is if the medal causes more gold hits and people are made unhappy by it... what then? A medal cannot (or rather should not) be undone. And how to water down a gold hitting medal? Difficult. On balance I think it should exist, and probably should have existed for a long time now - it would have been more easily absorbed into play earlier in the game when the population was bigger. Would a gold thief medal cause the same frenzy of hits the initial smasher medal did? Possibly, especially if it is not backdated. If it is backdated we could instantly see some diamond medals out there - LOL! I think to make it an easier transition it should have to be backdated to reduce a gold hit frenzy on introduction. If that can be done and the gold hit records are stored somewhere... if not....That smasher sequence did push online numbers down - would HCS be willing to risk a similar reaction from a gold thief medal? Gold thief threads in the past tend to have gone nowhere  - but it may be worth restarting one in search of a reasonable consensus - or a confirmation that it will definitively never fly. 

 

Smasher hits being widened to a 24 hour window. That would merit its own thread and HCS input and a lot of warning to the non-forum reading community, and by a lot of warning I would mean multiple news splashes and PM to everyone who plays. If strong opposition arises (and I am sure it would) then I think the opposition should be accepted.

 

PvP events - I suggested a PvP global some time ago where the Shadowlord (or a pissed off Gurgriss) forces the heroes of the realms to fight each other until a certain amount of blood is shed. (I.e. community total of PvP hits to be obtained, with the usual personal goal to be hit for each tier) I did make it decidedly Pillow versus Pillow, Dom, in order to break people into the idea gently - with either the hits not causing XP loss, or Lindarsil showing up at the end of the event to reverse the losses incurred. (Up to 100% if Ruby tier was hit - an incentive to go all out, because if you don't hit Ruby - some of that XP loss would be permanent! (I actually think that would be too much for an initial PvP event...)) If this kind of event was built with the 500 level Chest rewards like the Vampiric or Royal chests, the levelling players would have an incentive to go for it, as those chests are the mutts nuts for levelling. (anyone who complains they have oodles of those stored in their BP is just bragging, and buys better pots to hunt with/has a gigantic stam bank that means they hunt 3/year so it is a 1st world player problem right there) No need to go bigger than those I don't think. And it would be a gold sink as the community would have to be paying for gear repairs.... unless of course everyone runs around naked in a pillow versus pillow orgy. You know that would happen. Unless it was forbidden somehow... But a PvP event could be created that would not be a waking nightmare for people who ordinarily avoid PvP. Yes it would be horribly watered down and real PvP players would hate its unriskiness, but all things have to start somewhere - the goal is to make people realise pillow fighting is fun, here, try this wooden stick version - still fun isn't it? How about trying full contact? Use the pillow fight global as a gateway drug for PvP!! And again - if it doesn't work... the community, through its actions and choices will have shown us which way it likes to go.

 

This is way long again. Balls.

 

EDIT PvP tokens for forging? My initial thought was not really - forging does include FSP expenditure - would the token forging reduce that? If tokens just replace gold cost - cool go for it at an appropriate and probably higher than gold cost exchange rate. If the tokens replace FSP... I'm not sure HCS would be up for that. Maybe if they replace 1 of the 2 FSP required per level, if the token cost was high enough. Gold and tokens can be gained in game by stam use. FSP are dev income stream.

Edited by Belaric, 11 February 2014 - 17:46.

[yotwehc]

I think gold thief medal is too easily abusable. Carry several million gold and trade hits with a friendly. Or perhaps convince a very low level player to take a bunch of hits in exchange for some fsp. Everyone sends gold to said player and start teeing off on him. People spend 25 fsp for chests so why not for another easy medal. Although still exploitable, perhaps count only quality gold hits towards the medal achievement and not based on the amount of gold stolen.

[Belaric]

I think gold thief medal is too easily abusable. Carry several million gold and trade hits with a friendly. Or perhaps convince a very low level player to take a bunch of hits in exchange for some fsp. Everyone sends gold to said player and start teeing off on him. People spend 25 fsp for chests so why not for another easy medal. Although still exploitable, perhaps count only quality gold hits towards the medal achievement and not based on the amount of gold stolen.

That is a good point on abuse.

 

Too many clever players seeing ways to work they system!

 

But as long as medals never produce tangible in game benefits... how much sleep should we lose over an abuse? The people who do it the right way will still get the glow of achievement, the people who take the short cut get to be pleased with their cleverness at playing the system. Many medals have been traded for over the years, fact of game life. I am STRONGLY opposed to any idea to link medals to in game bonuses or benefits for that reason.

 

And... if the gold thief medal was backdated to include old gold hits many people would already gain high level medals for the real work they have already done, and late reward/recognition is better than none. And maybe have it based on # of gold hits, rather than gold amount stolen, after all the gold available to steal for a level 250 thief is rather different to that available to a 1400 thief....

 

How do you then differentiate a gold hit from any other? sigh.

 

Or we have a dedicated Gold thief medal thread and look for ways to minimise possible abuses. Given what you said I do not think they could be eliminated - but minimised with time limits on hits on one person so hit swapping would at least take time to build up.

Edited by Belaric, 11 February 2014 - 19:14.

[Mullicxan]

I suggest we make ladder token items be worth more by having new components added at a much higher price like 75 Tokens for a new type of component needed. It would make players stay in the ladder much longer. As for ranges i would try 50-150 151-250 251-350 351-450 451-600 601-799 800-999 1000-1199

1200-1399 1400-1599 1600-1900. Just a random one..but the first suggested band is too wide in my opinion. Level 25's would be dominated by level 200 most of the time even unbuffed. 

 

Or a another approach is players being allowed to opt in lets say you're level 1000 but want to be in the level 25-49 range you should only be allowed to wear level 25-49 gear range possibly? Sort of like the arena. Although something would have to be done with the level up points. Drawback is higher level players having more buffs to hit themselves with as well

[yotwehc]

That is a good point on abuse.

Too many clever players seeing ways to work they system!

But as long as medals never produce tangible in game benefits... how much sleep should we lose over an abuse? The people who do it the right way will still get the glow of achievement, the people who take the short cut get to be pleased with their cleverness at playing the system. Many medals have been traded for over the years, fact of game life. I am STRONGLY opposed to any idea to link medals to in game bonuses or benefits for that reason.

And... if the gold thief medal was backdated to include old gold hits many people would already gain high level medals for the real work they have already done, and late reward/recognition is better than none. And maybe have it based on # of gold hits, rather than gold amount stolen, after all the gold available to steal for a level 250 thief is rather different to that available to a 1400 thief....

How do you then differentiate a gold hit from any other? sigh.

Or we have a dedicated Gold thief medal thread and look for ways to minimise possible abuses. Given what you said I do not think they could be eliminated - but minimised with time limits on hits on one person so hit swapping would at least take time to build up.

Ok last point as I guess we've derailed to Moscow at this point. I personally could care less about medals but remember the stink people made when eoc'rs were asking to be 100 stammed? Many were outraged as the value of the achievement had been watered despite the fact that they actively did it via other means. Just trying to keep things consistent.

[Pardoux]

There should be NEW ladder tokens if new rewards are going to be introduced into the game.

 

Some folk are sitting on vast amounts of tokens "earned" on ladders through almost non-existant activity and thus would clean-up if the new rewards were purchasable with the old rewards.

 

All in favour of revitalising the ladder, but not at the expense of "barely active ladder sitters" being handed a massive "cash-cow"

[BraveKath]

Many many wonderful ideas here so far - keep them coming please

 

 

Maybe a Master Thief medal or such could be good

 

 

LOTS of good points and glad you're encouraged by the discussion, as it's a good meaty one.

Excellent idea on the Master Thief Medal, seems like an idea long overdue.  

[BraveKath]

Just had a thought - Biggest Whiner Medal - for those that post the most Bounties?  LOL!  Well, it might perk up the BB. Just joking around 

 

As to Chazz's most recent post (cc'd below), all solid, good ideas and in support.  

 

Only hesitattion is I'm thinking 50% Prestige seems excessive, but that's tweaking stuff, but the idea of the methodology for earning the Prestige bonus seems really good.

As to the various comments about players that manipulate the game to get medals and "earn" them in a way not originally intended, sadly yes it's rampant and we can only do so much and ultimately the manipulators will always find a way it seems, and if we get bogged down in that nothing positive ever happens.  

 

Summary :

 

1. Proposed New Crystaline gear for all Ladder Players with higher stats introduced low durability for all levels

2. PvP Potions ( must be bound to player I feel) Potions should consist of level 250 to level 300 high buffs eg KE 250 - DC 300 - AL 300 - Smashing hammer 300 etc and so on. Make it challenging but not all so game breaking either.

3. Increased transfer of PvP Prestige - also increased limit from current 10% to perhaps 50% - This should be based off of stam usage and attacks while on ladder opposed to PvP coin transfer - So by doing so encourages activity - Plus the ability to re-gain levels.

4. New Medal for being apart of the PvP ladder - adds some incentive as well

5. Creating new Medals for outside bounty board attacks such as a Master Thief medal perhaps or a Most Wanted medal for player posted so many time x = must equal a greatly high number (just a thought)

6. GvG Ladder Resets was suggested in a quaterly fashion ( eg once every 3 months also should award new guild medals for such. This will keep that ladder also active and pumping.

7. Suggested ideas for off the bounty board attacks but keeping the bounty board populated - In the world of GvG there are attack spans eg level 25 thru 300 25 level range of attack + /-  However for the purpose of PvP attacks are limted to + or - 10 levels from levels 25 thru 1999 so far - let's alter that possibly to talor fit GvG's attack range ( Just a thought) will help people gain medals and such - also stimulate activity across all leveling fields while keeping it fair as well - just implementing some caution while hunting is all.

 

As before this is an on going topic open to change and compromise - What is 100% agreed on so far is that we are looking for increased incentives to get people back into the game - and create a demand to make them wanna partcipate more often then they already do.

 

Please comment positivly and feel free to suggest more ideas or offer corrections to current ideas but follow corrections with your beliefs as to why something should change and how it would improve.

 

- Thank you

Chazz

 

 ;-p

Edited by BraveKath, 11 February 2014 - 23:43.

[Belaric]

There should be NEW ladder tokens if new rewards are going to be introduced into the game.

 

Some folk are sitting on vast amounts of tokens "earned" on ladders through almost non-existant activity and thus would clean-up if the new rewards were purchasable with the old rewards.

 

All in favour of revitalising the ladder, but not at the expense of "barely active ladder sitters" being handed a massive "cash-cow"

I totally get your point, and rarely do I do this, but I have to disagree with you Pardoux.

 

I'm a fan of keeping things simple so they can be implemented with a minimum of fuss and within an actual foreseeable future.

 

Yes people have hoarded tokens.

 

By being on the ladder.

 

So however they have done it, they have put in the time and earned their rewards - it is not the fault of the ladder die hards that the tokens they earn are not that useful, and yes, they'd be hoping for a new Helhearts or similar to get a big pay day, which would be to their great good fortune if that happened. This is a game - they'd have played the long odds and have it come in - for months/years of nothing in particular, then a big rush of interest.

 

If you object on the basis that the ladder is not fair and abusive situations have arisen where competition has been stifled and those winning tokens have done so unfairly, well that is different, but I do not think that is your argument, and I think that would be a very difficult one to prosecute.

 

IF rewards are introduced en masse - Prestige earnings and Duration extension, Low durability excellent utility Crystal sets (I'd rather 25 now), a bunch of PvP potions, well then you have resources there that get burned up quickly, Prestige is non-transferrable, so could only be personally used. The crystal items - there is already gear to 1 hit through all levels - this gear would make it easier for those not in reliced up guilds, or would be a difference maker in PvP, GvG or arena situations. Or a frag resource in times of limited crystal events. These things will be used over and over and work to reduce token stockpiles by having them burned on one shot items. I have no issues with potions being unbound. Let us find out what the market will bear for PvP potions - they will find their price point.

 

It is only the new permanent token gear that could cause a problem - and an idea has been suggested above - create a new ingredient that costs a lot more tokens that will be part of the new gear's recipes. That of course will also make that new gear more expensive for precisely that reason, and for much longer than otherwise as it would always take a lot of resources to create so it would be a case of careful what you wish for. That is also why I suggested new gear be more utilitarian/speculative in its design, arm/def sets for level ranges that lack them, etc. so they may grow over time to be useful, depending on new buffs and subsequent gear from legendary releases etc. Though I do not have any objection to a sexy new legendary set that kicks ass - look at Helhearts or Agiads then and now - once we all paid through the nose, now they are dirt cheap. The ladder could/should get a few new high level sets, (in fact sets across the level ranges it omits now - which is quite a lot I believe) we don't have that many up here, and any useful ones would be highly valued by people capable of paying for them. They will get cheaper over time as all sets have done. This is an opportunity!!

 

Finally, if you make new tokens, an entirely new resource with which to buy new items, then the backlog of old tokens is not resolved!  It is possible the ladder regulars will be massively motivated to protect their turf and get their mitts on the new resources - this means that the incentive to draw new players in - nice new rewards - will be countered by a brutally competitive initial environment which may send newbies scurrying for the hills. IF the new rewards are based on the existing tokens, those players who are fat and happy on piles of old tokens will still fight to stay top of the pile, but they won't do it with a chip on their shoulder about having been denied these new gifts based on their work already done. That chip could make a big difference - I'd rather it was not there.

 

We can't penalise people for having remained participants. We can't expect a new rush of activity either - the incentives might not work, in which case the non-existant activity you mentioned will continue. At that stage a white flag may have to be raised and we accept the ladders are not a winner. New debates would occur then. If ladder players clean up - they've earned it - we could all have participated too, but chose not to. Keep it simple, same tokens, lots of burnable resources, the tokens will take care of themselves.

[Chazz224]

I have to agree with Belaric on this as well - Despite current Ladder holders having a stock pile right now - it would be grave and totally unfair to deny them after working to stay up there - (working = time spent in this case) -

 

I. Also feel that PvP potions should be bound to player but that's my opinion

2. In respect to the suggested 50% prestiage xp gain perhaps 25% if 50 is too high - Reason being we are using this as another tool to draw more in and at the same time help make up any lost xp for some. If the ladder feels 15 or 20% is better that can work as well I am merely trying to keep a positive incentive that will draw as many in as possible.

[Shadow19231]

You should see my bracket (450-499).. Such a sad sight.. Let's see, we have Me, a guy who logs in purely to stay active enough to collect FREE points, a guy who is a self-proclaimed pvp god (who's opted out for a week now) and we just lost the ONLY guy actually fighting for first. It's sinful what my ladder is. Just 3 people ( 2 as of 2/12/14) getting points without spending a single stamina. Needless to say, they need to make the rewards worth fighting over. If they gave out upgrades for your character, i would be willing to bet in my bracket at least 5 times the people would try for the first few weeks. I don't know, nobody cares what i say. So, I don't know why i even try.

Edited by Shadow19231, 13 February 2014 - 01:40.

[Belaric]

You should see my bracket (450-499).. Such a sad sight.. Let's see, we have Me, a guy who logs in purely to stay active enough to collect FREE points, a guy who is a self-proclaimed pvp god (who's opted out for a week now) and we just lost the ONLY guy actually fighting for first. It's sinful what my ladder is. Just 3 people ( 2 as of 2/12/14) getting points without spending a single stamina. Needless to say, they need to make the rewards worth fighting over. If they gave out upgrades for your character, i would be willing to bet in my bracket at least 5 times the people would try for the first few weeks. I don't know, nobody cares what i say. So, I don't know why i even try.

LMAO! I LOVE this post!

 

It is quite the most awesome Eeyore post I have seen! Have an empty honey pot!

 

Does point out some serious problems though. Thank you.

[BraveKath]

You should see my bracket (450-499).. Such a sad sight.. Let's see, we have Me, a guy who logs in purely to stay active enough to collect FREE points, a guy who is a self-proclaimed pvp god (who's opted out for a week now) and we just lost the ONLY guy actually fighting for first. It's sinful what my ladder is. Just 3 people ( 2 as of 2/12/14) getting points without spending a single stamina. Needless to say, they need to make the rewards worth fighting over. If they gave out upgrades for your character, i would be willing to bet in my bracket at least 5 times the people would try for the first few weeks. I don't know, nobody cares what i say. So, I don't know why i even try.

It's rotten.  Sorry you're not getting to have fun and play.  Stay optimistic!

[Shadow19231]

It's rotten.  Sorry you're not getting to have fun and play.  Stay optimistic!

 

I don't know how much support I am getting, and whether or not it's sympathy support, but I am interested in the proposal of upgrades for winning ladders.

 

Have everyday be a predetermined upgrade piece. Basically as an example : Mondays only you can earn 1/8th of a Backpack slot.. ( With the business model of you'd have to win 8 Monday’s for a backpack. Tuesdays you get 1/20th of a 100 stamina reward. I don't really know if that number is accurate to 20 days’ worth of work, but all these can be adjusted.

 

Here's the problem with what I'm proposing, it means that much less fsp are being potentially bought to upgrade your character and less money coming in for the company. With that, I doubt this will fly. I do still think it'll make ladders active again.

 

I'm not too noticed when it comes to the forums. So, I never really think of ideas to help, and that's the reason why what i usually come up with is half-baked, despite it coming from the heart.

Edited by Shadow19231, 13 February 2014 - 04:35.

[Chazz224]

QuoteShadow19231, on 12 Feb 2014 - 23:32, said:

I don't know how much support I am getting, and whether or not it's sympathy support, but I am interested in the proposal of upgrades for winning ladders.

 

Have everyday be a predetermined upgrade piece. Basically as an example : Mondays only you can earn 1/8th of a Backpack slot.. ( With the business model of you'd have to win 8 Monday’s for a backpack. Tuesdays you get 1/20th of a 100 stamina reward. I don't really know if that number is accurate to 20 days’ worth of work, but all these can be adjusted.

 

Here's the problem with what I'm proposing, it means that much less fsp are being potentially bought to upgrade your character and less money coming in for the company. With that, I doubt this will fly. I do still think it'll make ladders active again.

 

I'm not too noticed when it comes to the forums. So, I never really think of ideas to help, and that's the reason why what i usually come up with is half-baked, despite it coming from the heart.

I can respect your train of thought and your suggestion here - but as you already stated by implementing this would hurt the cash flow for devs and overall hurt the community and game so using or creating upgrades through the pvp ladder would be a mistake whether its stam - back back - or even forgeing gear - None of this would propose positive turn around for the game or our devs. However allow me to explain this in depth.

 

PvP = Huge donations and big dollars for devs, players within our community as well. - Regardless as to whether they are strict to only PvPing or strict to only Pveing or etc. Big dots = big donations from all - Let me explain why.

 

1. PvP - Rule of thumb to PvP one needs gear. Gear costs dots. Then as the player gains more an more experience they realize they need a variety of gear to defeat different sets - be hunting - defense - or armor based kits - this is achievable through ... More gear - more dots spent acquiring gear.  Guilds carry gear usually based soloy for hunting needs - some carry more variety. However due to the fact that the majority of guilds carry a variety of players - gear is usually recalled fairly often so more often then not Pvpers usually try to acquire their own personal gear for this type of sport or play which in turn create more donations and a higher revenue stream for the devs here.

 

2. PvPers also require a certain amount of buffs - depending on the players (attacker) gear and skill - buffs may consist from a handful to an overwhelming out ( the targets gear and buffs also play a big part in this factor as well) Pvpers depending on their level - their stam bank - usually out source their buffs which = More dots going out - although the new buff market helps greatly still dots and gold are spent - Who receives all of this dots and gold - other players that are selling and usually Leveling.

 

3. Another line of PvP revenue stems into the communities Auction House - where else does someone find a variety of gear to buy - but PvPers just like their cousin the Levelers often buy Potions as well - So the more that are Pvping - the more stimulated the AH is and the higher demand for certain or all potions - price goes up. Who in turn reaps those rewards - Our in game Potion makers.

 

4. Another example of a PvP revenue line is: PvP Protection - Now Naturally not all people enjoy losing Xp and for some they are allowed to protect it which is another hard lining stream for our game - our community - and devs.

 

5. Outside of PvP Protection - we have people who donate to level faster - due to personal goals - level achievements or simple to get out of some PvPers range.

 

6. Now Let's talk about the Bounty Board: How did they end up their - Not everyone plays the PvP Ladder right now and some take advantage of stealing gold and their for are placed on the B.B. - Another financial institute where people come to clear others and gain rewards - another forum for PvP but still stems from PvP. 

 

7. S.E. Hunters = How are they involved in PvP ? Those who enjoy the hunt of SE's make their profits through supply and demand just as our community potion makers - or Auction House traders who sell for a living all do - and talk to any of them and ask when is their most profitable season here in FS? It's usually when guilds are waring with one an other lol over what ever - or if their is something new - that people are going crazy for ...

 

8. Avatar makers - often make good dots for PvP - to poke fun of something or have something implied etc.

 

Bottom line here as explained is PvP brings in a lot of money - it helps support the community through a variety of ways it's very existences is vital and important to this game especially. PvP should be encouraged not just due to all it's amazing benefits but it also creates interaction between players where they talk and communicate - in which many friendships have been created as well

 

With new PvP Ladder incentives - possibly New GvG Ladder incentives it wouldn't be far fetched to see many become more active then they already are now - To see a surge in the community and AH an many other areas of the game as I have explained. Lots of donations - lots of dot spending - Lots of rewards as well whether they are from a gear stand point - a financial stand point - a moral booster - Many possibilities here with positive PvP incentives.

 

Sorry it's super long and detailed but perhaps needed to bring light to things

 

- Chazz

Edited by Chazz224, 13 February 2014 - 23:05.

[Shadow19231]

 

QuoteShadow19231, on 12 Feb 2014 - 23:32, said:

I don't know how much support I am getting, and whether or not it's sympathy support, but I am interested in the proposal of upgrades for winning ladders.

 

Have everyday be a predetermined upgrade piece. Basically as an example : Mondays only you can earn 1/8th of a Backpack slot.. ( With the business model of you'd have to win 8 Monday’s for a backpack. Tuesdays you get 1/20th of a 100 stamina reward. I don't really know if that number is accurate to 20 days’ worth of work, but all these can be adjusted.

 

Here's the problem with what I'm proposing, it means that much less fsp are being potentially bought to upgrade your character and less money coming in for the company. With that, I doubt this will fly. I do still think it'll make ladders active again.

 

I'm not too noticed when it comes to the forums. So, I never really think of ideas to help, and that's the reason why what i usually come up with is half-baked, despite it coming from the heart.

I can respect your train of thought and your suggestion here - but as you already stated by implementing this would hurt the cash flow for devs and overall hurt the community and game so using or creating upgrades through the pvp ladder would be a mistake whether its stam - back back - or even forgeing gear - None of this would propose positive turn around for the game or our devs. However allow me to explain this in depth.

 

PvP = Huge donations and big dollars for devs, players within our community as well. - Regardless as to whether they are strict to only PvPing or strict to only Pveing or etc. Big dots = big donations from all - Let me explain why.

 

1. PvP - Rule of thumb to PvP one needs gear. Gear costs dots. Then as the player gains more an more experience they realize they need a variety of gear to defeat different sets - be hunting - defense - or armor based kits - this is achievable through ... More gear - more dots spent acquiring gear.  Guilds carry gear usually based soloy for hunting needs - some carry more variety. However due to the fact that the majority of guilds carry a variety of players - gear is usually recalled fairly often so more often then not Pvpers usually try to acquire their own personal gear for this type of sport or play which in turn create more donations and a higher revenue stream for the devs here.

 

2. PvPers also require a certain amount of buffs - depending on the players (attacker) gear and skill - buffs may consist from a handful to an overwhelming out ( the targets gear and buffs also play a big part in this factor as well) Pvpers depending on their level - their stam bank - usually out source their buffs which = More dots going out - although the new buff market helps greatly still dots and gold are spent - Who receives all of this dots and gold - other players that are selling and usually Leveling.

 

3. Another line of PvP revenue stems into the communities Auction House - where else does someone find a variety of gear to buy - but PvPers just like their cousin the Levelers often buy Potions as well - So the more that are Pvping - the more stimulated the AH is and the higher demand for certain or all potions - price goes up. Who in turn reaps those rewards - Our in game Potion makers.

 

4. Another example of a PvP revenue line is: PvP Protection - Now Naturally not all people enjoy losing Xp and for some they are allowed to protect it which is another hard lining stream for our game - our community - and devs.

 

5. Outside of PvP Protection - we have people who donate to level faster - due to personal goals - level achievements or simple to get out of some PvPers range.

 

6. Now Let's talk about the Bounty Board: How did they end up their - Not everyone plays the PvP Ladder right now and some take advantage of stealing gold and their for are placed on the B.B. - Another financial institute where people come to clear others and gain rewards - another forum for PvP but still stems from PvP. 

 

7. S.E. Hunters = How are they involved in PvP ? Those who enjoy the hunt of SE's make their profits through supply and demand just as our community potion makers - or Auction House traders who sell for a living all do - and talk to any of them and ask when is their most profitable season here in FS? It's usually when guilds are waring with one an other lol over what ever - or if their is something new - that people are going crazy for ...

 

8. Avatar makers - often make good dots for PvP - to poke fun of something or have something implied etc.

 

Bottom line here as explained is PvP brings in a lot of money - it helps support the community through a variety of ways it's very existences is vital and important to this game especially. PvP should be encouraged not just due to all it's amazing benefits but it also creates interaction between players where they talk and communicate - in which many friendships have been created as well

 

With new PvP Ladder incentives - possibly New GvG Ladder incentives it wouldn't be far fetched to see many become more active then they already are now - To see a surge in the community and AH an many other areas of the game as I have explained. Lots of donations - lots of dot spending - Lots of rewards as well whether they are from a gear stand point - a financial stand point - a moral booster - Many possibilities here with positive PvP incentives.

 

Sorry it's super long and detailed but perhaps needed to bring light to things

 

- Chazz

 

 

I think you've made all valid points. I guess where we can go from here is examine how dead the ladder actually is, what would be incentive to play it, and how to not disrupt the balance of donations and such.

 

We both can agree that in the case of my ladder, something needs to change. The way i see it: The ladder is for those who are smart enough to get free points and who are willing to possibly be hit. Although, when my ladder was serious, I never lost enough XP to consider what I'm doing. The thing is, It seems scary, it seems like it's counter-productive, trading xp for tokens, but it's not that at all. Everyone on my board and everyone who's been there when i've been there has known it's a misinterpreted update, and is there only for free points. The problem is that other people are too scared to take those free points instead of the current people. The reality of it is, is that the 3 that are collecting free points would more than likely leave at the chance of losing XP (from a real ladder person). Or even just someone who wants to get in on the free points instead.  Not me, but I've seen it happen.
 

What i'm thinking right now is that if the Ladder will not be fixed, why have it? It's clearly flawed from a factual standpoint, and no good is coming from it.

[watagashi]

I think this has been gone over a couple times,,bout every month theres a pvp ladder fix thread actually

 

It seems to me the roadmap is their set in stone route and new stuff isnt getting added till they get that done, that said a lot of these ideas should be brought up when parts that fit it are comming up, for example the bounty fix will be a good time to remind them the rewards dont go past 1k right now but content is nearing 2k and stuff like that 

[bleacher12]

The biggest issue pointed out so far is a lack of participation. The biggest reason for that is the importance placed by the game on XP and the unwillingness of most to lose what takes a lot of work to earn.

 

Why does the ladder have to be about XP loss alone? Just like gold can be stolen from a hit, why can't a ladder hit result in the XP also being stolen instead of plain lost?

Suggestion:

- Transfer XP lost by the loser in a ladder combat to the winner.

- Tie the XP loss and transfer to the rating scale so the returns diminish from one sided battles until its zeroed out so there's no chance for abuse.

- Add an XP Gloat buff that improves the amount of XP stolen similar to how Gloat improves gold stolen.

Voila! ladder combat suddenly has value in terms of what most deem the most important part of the game, XP.

Instead of mindlessly smacking creatures over and over, there's now an interesting way to earn XP and level up that also increases player interaction.

 

Also, to improve economics for the cows, add low durability quick diminishing Crystal gear like Kittles suggested that targeted at PVP with substantially better stats that require a combination of tokens and dots/gold (so there's revenue coming in for the cows). No forging/crafting but the equivalent can be more dots gets more stats.

Edited by bleacher12, 14 February 2014 - 22:48.

[Chazz224]

Bump - I think this post is still important and could make a difference.