98 replies to this topic

[Filletminion]

Hi there Everyone.

Here is a list of possible Loyalty Potions. We're looking for feedback on these as well as suggested points costs.

Anti Deflect 300 ~ Yes. it is needed Luis post clearly shows why.

Super Elite Slayer 200 ~ Not Needed players already have this option.

Overkill 300 ~ No diminishes stamina required to level even more in a time when it has never been easier.

Honor 250 ~ Question is will the buff be in game after the ladder update.

Degrade 200 ~ Yes.

Side Step 200 ~ Yes.

Last Ditch? 250 ~ Yes.

Inventor (II) 20 ~ No will further degrade the games economy

Reckoning 230 ~ NO.what will be the point of the cave potion of reckoning then ?

Sacrifice 350 ~ No its already in the game.

Gold Foot 250 ~ Yes. Do people really use it ?

Cloak 100 (300 minutes) ~ Yes.

Extend 200 ~ ? people are already saying they do not have time to play the game and we want buffs to last even longer ?

Reinforce 250 ~ Yes. Read extend

Overkill 300 ~ double listing

Sanctuary lvl 250 ~ Yes. Can see a benefit

Stun lvl 200 ~ Yes. 

Mighty Vigor 250 ~ Yes.

Ignite/Poison 200 ~ Yes.

Arterial Strike 200 ~ Yes very rarely used not sure of its value.

Spectral Knight 200 ~ Yes 

Flinch 200 ~ Yes potion of the mongoose ?

Terrorize 200 ~ Yes

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Treasure Hunter 250 ~ Maybe? Just No we do not need more gold in game.

Merch 275 ~ Maybe? As above

Dull Edge 200 ~ Maybe? of questionable value.

Brewing master 250 ~ Invalidates the recently released Pontius Egg.

Extractor II 200 ~ Yes. Could be a touch higher though. 300?

Find Item 1250 ~ 800? 1000? 1250 makes the 1000 in SA obsolete. NO existing pots do the job very well.

Stalker 300 ~ Maybe. If so, the existing Stalker potions would need to be buffed a wee bit.

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AL180 and CON180 potions should be updated to 250?


~ The Fallen Sword Team

 

 

That some of these buffs are even being considered worries me, their increased levels devalues levelling to gain buffs when combined with composing players will have no need to allocate skill points if we continue down this path.

 

The game needs incentive to do things to gain things you previously could not have now with composing and loyalty pots players really have no need to go past 500 anymore...is that what players really want or HCS for that matter.

[BadPenny]

I see a lot of talk about "we won't have any need for our skill points"  Well, I don't see an enchant armor there, or a holy flame, or any imps, and so on.  There are plenty of regular buffs that we still will need for ourselves and others.  I see NO PvP buffs outside of last ditch and anti-deflect.  

 

It's funny, when potions were first introduced, we had the very same protests, and I wondered then as I do now, "Are we worried about not needing buffs for our personal usage, or are we worried there won't be a market to buy them?"  Well, there will always be a market for a SMALL NMV, for quest finder (also not on this list) and I could go on, but you can see my point, can't you?  

 

Loyalty potions, no matter what we get at whatever strength, will not kill the market for buffs or eliminate the need for some very important level 175 buffs.  So stop worrying, look at the list again, and just try to see what there is that you might want, instead of fretting about something that is unlikely to happen

[Undjuvion]

Some of those are gonna break buffs that left some use for putting in skill points(stun, reinforce and degrade), though a really high reinforce actually gives back use to self owned buffs if u can make them last a great deal of time.

 

A couple of those(stalker and antideflect) appear to mess with composing which already obliterated a good percentage of the buffs u buy with leveling up, a couple destroy pots(reckoning and cloak) which already have a good market,

 

TH and merch i saw in the maybe arent really needed by people with quantities of loyalty, make em cheap then they just replace a few more of the leveling up buffs, but people will use regardless and will prob push gold to fsp up another notch or maybe three,

 

I see no harm in FI1250, the 1k in specials is HCS managed and no harm in breaking it, it dont really conflict with donation ones but they dont seem that great anyway, maybe a FI1500 in loyalty and bump the donations up to FI2500, remember FI was fixed so still wont be near what it used to be and many say the caves just shaft ya atm,

 

I think if you are going to add a few, add a few and make them a real knockout punch that stays with loyalty, for so long the LF1250's in loyalty have been a sensation, the DBLR1200 was quite popular and semi-still is, if i had to vote id say a multipot with both extend300/400 and reinforce300/400, the comment of noone has time to play i saw, many pvpers want their buffs to last a good while

 

Secondarily my vote would be for something slightly less structural and more fun, extractor 2 lvl FIVE HUNDRED, yes extr2 500, distilled to 575 that still only makes it a 28.75% chance to save the resource, fun fun.

 

Be interesting to see what is added

[Undjuvion]

I see a lot of talk about "we won't have any need for our skill points"  Well, I don't see an enchant armor there, or a holy flame, or any imps, and so on.  There are plenty of regular buffs that we still will need for ourselves and others.  I see NO PvP buffs outside of last ditch and anti-deflect.  

 

It's funny, when potions were first introduced, we had the very same protests, and I wondered then as I do now, "Are we worried about not needing buffs for our personal usage, or are we worried there won't be a market to buy them?"  Well, there will always be a market for a SMALL NMV, for quest finder (also not on this list) and I could go on, but you can see my point, can't you?  

 

Loyalty potions, no matter what we get at whatever strength, will not kill the market for buffs or eliminate the need for some very important level 175 buffs.  So stop worrying, look at the list again, and just try to see what there is that you might want, instead of fretting about something that is unlikely to happen

 

 

only point id make, relevance u hopefully allow, is how many are getting around in champion sets while leveling instead of LE sets since they came and then were asked for till abundance, everyone knows the lack of strategy needed to delve deeper but

[Gooner111]

Not sure there is a need for all of them as a lot are available though regular buffs and/or pots from AH. Having said that they do offer new options.... which can't really be a bad thing, right??? 

 

- Anti Deflect 300 ~ So this would be a 60% chance that deflect won't activate. Sounds nice! Would suggest same price as doubler with 90/120min duration. 

 

- Super Elite Slayer 200 ~ Would like to see long duration on this - 90 min+

 

- Treasure Hunter 250 & Merchant 275  ~ Won't say no! Composing costs a fortune lol 

 

- Find Item 1250 ~ 800? 1000? 1250 makes the 1000 in SA obsolete ~ I don't think it will make the lesser pots obsolete. The cheap gold ones in AH are nice and available to all at the prices they sell at. Whereas a level 1250 (not round that up to 1300?) will give somebody who really wants a few % extra chance of a drop a new option but at a much higher price (compared to the AH ones). Maybe 200-300 loyalty tokens.  

 

- AL180 and CON180 potions should be updated to 250 - Agreed. Not consider updating the Courageous Draft and Adventurer Elixir pots to lvl 150 while at it?

 

- Overkill 300 ~ Yes. 100 tokens

 

- Sanctuary lvl 250 ~ 100 tokens but long duration. Armor setups suffer in pvp as buffs like this do not last long compared to buffs that boost damage, attack, defense. 

 

- Honor 250 ~ Yes with long duration

[bloody18]

my favorite 3 of the lot and most beneficial to me personally

 

TREASURE HUNTER and MERCHANT upgrades YES YES!

These arent available anywhere else, and if approved, I would leave them as a loyalty only potion ( keeps the opportunity for extra gold on a level playing field) ..  a real bonus for our hunts =)

 

also STALKER upgrade YES!

[savipats]

I'd vote for Anti-Deflect, Overkill, Reckoning, Find item, Extend+Reinforce combo.

Maybe Treasure Hunter+Merchant combo as well.

All of them preferrably at least 90 minutes duration.

The rest of the buffs in that list can be aquired in more than way at the same skill level or better, or the suggested level for loyalty pot is higher only by insignificant amount to be of practical relevance.

The cost perhaps 150-250 tokens a piece...

 

I agree with Pardoux's suggestion to bump up the donation pots with Find item in it to lvl 2000 and make a loyalty one of lvl1500 (in that case i guess 500 tokens perhaps).

[Filletminion]

I see a lot of talk about "we won't have any need for our skill points"  Well, I don't see an enchant armor there, or a holy flame, or any imps, and so on.  There are plenty of regular buffs that we still will need for ourselves and others.  I see NO PvP buffs outside of last ditch and anti-deflect.  

 

It's funny, when potions were first introduced, we had the very same protests, and I wondered then as I do now, "Are we worried about not needing buffs for our personal usage, or are we worried there won't be a market to buy them?"  Well, there will always be a market for a SMALL NMV, for quest finder (also not on this list) and I could go on, but you can see my point, can't you?  

 

Loyalty potions, no matter what we get at whatever strength, will not kill the market for buffs or eliminate the need for some very important level 175 buffs.  So stop worrying, look at the list again, and just try to see what there is that you might want, instead of fretting about something that is unlikely to happen

And all the buffs you mention are below level 500 to gain them except nmv which can be attained via specials for level 80.

 

To your second point I never sell buffs I would never hit max stam if I did. So I am not arguing out of self interest.

 

Instead of looking at what you would like as if you are a child in a candy store, try and evaluate what their effect would be on the game and its economy..

[shindrak]

Personal buffs gonna be useless soon

 

 add new skills tree instead of this

[BadPenny]

And all the buffs you mention are below level 500 to gain them except nmv which can be attained via specials for level 80.

 

To your second point I never sell buffs I would never hit max stam if I did. So I am not arguing out of self interest.

 

Instead of looking at what you would like as if you are a child in a candy store, try and evaluate what their effect would be on the game and its economy..

You know, I do have a reputation of putting the game and how things affect others first.  For one thing, these are rewards... We get 5 tokens a day just for showing up, but the majority of my tokens, like the rest of you, I imagine, come from our regular donations to the game.  I have probably spent way too much on this game, not only for my own use, but ALSO to help many many others, including my guild, in this game.  I've been around for a good while now, and I've seen the trends, heard all the beefs and complaints imaginable.  As I said, I've seen these same complaints for a while now.  When FI 1k was released, half the community threw a fit... "oh, it's way overpowered"   "oh, it's too expensive"  and yes "oh, it's going to make FI 150 (highest in the game at that time, NOBODY was 500 yet) obsolete"  As you can see, it 2015 now, and the introduction of FI 1K did not break the game.  Yeah, I know, few use 175, but it's not because FI 1K was added to the game, but because you can get FI 800 so cheaply now.  But it did not break the game, and I still buy it from the buff market,  because it's still cheaper, and based on my experiences, I get drops anyway, even from SE's, even when I have forgotten to get it.  That's just one example.  The thing is, dear, there are all sorts of ways to get many buffs in this game, from invented and composed, to the cave potions, to the specials, and even the arena potions.  IMHO, it's not going to break the game to add some SPECIAL potions to the loyalty section for us to use.  If you ask me, it will inspire many that have never donated to do so, just so they can be "kids in a candy store" as you put it, too.  I know, it's a little juvenile, but it's how economies actually work... the products put stars in our eyes on the commercials, and we all run right down to WalMart to buy them... Can you say you have never bought any product of some kind you did not need just because you had been dazzled by an advertiser's brilliance?  

 

These are meant to be rewards here, and not something one always uses for every purpose.  I donate every month and I don't have that many tokens to spend, so what I would get would be used sparingly, like any global chest, or one I got from an offer, same as I  always have.  I will still continue to use my own awesome Pennah Magic on myself and friends and guildmates, and I will continue to compose what I can that I or my guild needs.  I still want these buffs, though.  I don't see them as a bad thing.  They are a good direction for the game to go....

[wil72]

^ Well said and hits the nail on the head in my opinion.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[sweetlou]

Unselfishly, some players make a good point on behalf of those who are unable, or don't donate to the game. Adding too many regular playing buffs to the Loyalty section will only discriminate against those who want to play the game for free. Currently Loyalty pots are really for convenience. They normally save some stam, excel xp gain or save a little gold but they haven't made players more powerful. The current proposal would change that tremendously. It will considerably increase the haves from the havenots. The argument that all players still gain 5 Loyalty tokens a day is a joke for practical use since it takes months to gain any meaningful amount of tokens for a single pot whereas donators are actually given bonus tokens for donations during some special donation drives.

 

Only the devs have the numbers of who donates and who doesn't because thankfully our characters don't display a 'scarlet letter' distinguishing those who do. The devs might think seriously about the alienation that would grow from a large portion of the player base, the ones who can't or won't donate. It'll be interesting to see how badly they want to push revenue versus growing the game's player base. They might consider how the latter would improve the former by keeping the Loyalty pots similar to the way they are now, giving only minimal advantages.

[wil72]

Unselfishly, some players make a good point on behalf of those who are unable, or don't donate to the game. Adding too many regular playing buffs to the Loyalty section will only discriminate against those who want to play the game for free. Currently Loyalty pots are really for convenience. They normally save some stam, excel xp gain or save a little gold but they haven't made players more powerful. The current proposal would change that tremendously. It will considerably increase the haves from the havenots. The argument that all players still gain 5 Loyalty tokens a day is a joke for practical use since it takes months to gain any meaningful amount of tokens for a single pot whereas donators are actually given bonus tokens for donations during some special donation drives.

 

Only the devs have the numbers of who donates and who doesn't because thankfully our characters don't display a 'scarlet letter' distinguishing those who do. The devs might think seriously about the alienation that would grow from a large portion of the player base, the ones who can't or won't donate. It'll be interesting to see how badly they want to push revenue versus growing the game's player base. They might consider how the latter would improve the former by keeping the Loyalty pots similar to the way they are now, giving only minimal advantages.

 

If not by donation then how should suggested buffs at suggested levels be obtained?

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[Filletminion]

If not by donation then how should suggested buffs at suggested levels be obtained?

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

Why do they need to be at suggested levels ? If you cannot see how much easier these will make the game then I guess there is no point. And every step down the easier path has seen a reduction in players.

[wil72]

Why do they need to be at suggested levels ? If you cannot see how much easier these will make the game then I guess there is no point. And every step down the easier path has seen a reduction in players.

 

C'mon zizz, you canny make sweeping statements like that. The dumbing down of PvP drove players away, monopoly of Titan hunting drove players away, unfair GvG drove players away, the horror that is EOC level drives players away, what else? Oh, I know, the game is too easy, and that too appears to be driving players away. Geez.

 

So, why not?

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

Edited by wil72, 24 January 2015 - 22:46.

[pinkdude]

No for Merchant and Treasure Hunter. Too much gold in the game as is.

 

 

As for the rest, I don't have an opinion. I agree with some of the people before me however. I'm not for introducing all of these at once. And this may cause the previously mentioned divide between donators and nondonators.

[sweetlou]

If not by donation then how should suggested buffs at suggested levels be obtained?

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

You know, that is precisely the point. How can most of the buffs listed by Grim and at the levels listed, because they are more than convenience buffs, be practically available to the whole player base? Great question for the devs. This development begins a step down a road of making players who can't or don't donate likely unable to compete against players who do donate at an unprecedented level for this game.

[sweetlou]

No for Merchant and Treasure Hunter. Too much gold in the game as is.

You must not have been around much lately, take a look at the MP. Since Composing sucks up a huge amount of gold and regular gold sucking events like LE caves the MP has seen some of its consistently lowest levels in a long time.

[wil72]

You know, that is precisely the point. How can most of the buffs listed by Grim and at the levels listed, because they are more than convenience buffs, be practically available to the whole player base? Great question for the devs. This development begins a step down a road of making players who can't or don't donate likely unable to compete against players who do donate at an unprecedented level for this game.

 

Don't donate but could then tough, they have no say in this argument, they have made their choice, they can live with it. As for "can't" donate, mate, there are those that do donate, now, that "can't" compete.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[BadPenny]

No for Merchant and Treasure Hunter. Too much gold in the game as is.

 

 

As for the rest, I don't have an opinion. I agree with some of the people before me however. I'm not for introducing all of these at once. And this may cause the previously mentioned divide between donators and nondonators.

Dear dear friend.  I spend about 5 dots a day in gold just on composing alone (just for leveling, more if I make personal use pots.).  I play the arena, I buy buffs, I do a lot of things with gold.  There are less places to steal gold nowadays, it's not like the old days when prey just took off without securing their gold.  They are wise to me... So I sometimes do a short stam burn now  and again just to farm gold, with only the minimal buffs to up my damage, and since I don't 1 hit consistently anyway, (never have, really, so, it's ok, I'm ok with it)  I wear my primary PvP setup, and have a high AL, and TH and Merch running.  It would be nice to have a bigger TH/Merch for these little forays.  I look at it this way.  I have been a regular contributor for 7 years now.  Why can't I have more gold from my hunt?  There are high-powered buffs for XP, for stats, for harvesting resources and items.... we should have the option for gold as well, it's only right, and for those that think they have enough gold already, that's fine, they don't have to purchase it.  It's all about options really.... Why should there be a big fuss about this being AVAILABLE  for those that would choose to use it?