42 replies to this topic

[insaner6]

perhaps epics could be forged up to level 6-7-8-9-10. and really upgrade the other stats to an epic way..
also forging to those levels would require a big amount of fsp..


as far as stamina gain per hour..
well..  we said 5-6 years ago that stamina gain would be capped at +7 stamina per hour..

that is a long way back..  perhaps a new inventable upgraded hunted cows set should be introduced with higher stamina gain per hour..
that would "force" lots of ppl to upgraed their "stamina gain" gears..

and when u are at level 500 perhaps a +7 more stamina gain per hour would give a major advantage towards completing a whole level while leveling..
but at level 5000,+7 more stamina gain per hour, wouldnt make any dramatic difference

[EpicPiety]

Hate to say it, but even if epics gave better stats they will likely be worthless. You don't really need more stats, no need. Whole economy needs a rewrite and games needs a rebalance.

[yghorbeviahn]

I like the idea of Hell Forge 10 for Epics, good gold sink...But upgrading stats wouldn't matter at the end of the day... Except for low lvl Epics and Arena.

I really like the idea from before about Reserve Stamina, maybe Hell Forge 6 to 10 could add Reserver Stamina gain per hour 1 to 5?

-

Also, new inventable set of Epics with +8/+9 stam gain would also be nice...But I'd say make a new Titan for it, and leave The Cow how it is, 99 Pail of Milk with players at the moment...perhaps to get to the maps for that new Titan you'd have to finish the Present Darkness (Epic) quest xD

[EpicPiety]

Don't see why +8 is a hard no. Just give us more stuff for using stam.

[Pardoux]

Don't see why +8 is a hard no. Just give us more stuff for using stam.

I'd say it was probably down to, if they gave +8, then it wouldn't be long before the "give us +9" epics and then +10 ...

 

Leave 'em as they are ...

[insaner6]

a cap in the stamina gain per hour
is the same like saying  "max and final level is 6000."  whoever gets there, like composing, u cant go any further..
(we already have this at eoc but there is new content coming out..)


also, as the higher levels demand more stamina to complete them, i dont see the point on why max stamina gain shouldnt be also be increased..


the game should be stable on all sides..





 

[yghorbeviahn]

The extra 1 stamina gain wouldn't even make much of a difference at the end of the day... It's just create demand and supply with new Epics on the market...After a while going to +9 would be a natural progression.

The market is so stalled, the only way to sell Epics lately is to offer them for an extremely low price so people buy it with the hope of selling it at some point, if not an increase in Stamina gain, something else should be done to increase the demand.

[EpicPiety]

Thanks for everyone's input, i am looking for HCS's plan to validate epics again. Any EOC epic released at this point is moot and strictly for "collection".

[Toreth]

In no way was the OP attempting to ask for nonsensical things such as "Reserve Stamina Gain" or a change to the way the hell-forging system works by increasing the cap up to a number higher than the original 5.

What the OP is doing is merely asking to bring parity to higher leveled epics when compared to the lower level epics. When it's more advantageous to wear a Unique item for PvP, GvG, or Arena, than it is to wear an epic, I would wager to say that the issue with the items isn't something like the aforementioned reserve Stam gain or an outright change to a game mechanic to "fit the bill."

All that would need to happen is a minor tweak to the items base stats to bring them back up into the "Epic" category where they belong instead of between Rare Items and Unique Items where they currently sit.

If we were to talk about any potential change outside of raising the base stats, while I know we've been told "+8 and higher will never happen," it may be time to explore that potential. With every new epic that comes to the game being more-or-less "dead on arrival," there has to be something that's going to bring value back to them as well.

As it stands, with the introduction of +7's only, their value is dictated before they even hit the market; what this will eventually do is drive the value of ALL +7s DOWN more. And those items needed to make the Hunted Cow Epic +7's? Their value also goes down as a result.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel for this one - in fact, there's a simple fix here for the entire item economy without doing anything drastic; we just have to get things moving in that direction.

[BigGrim]

Between Rare Items and Unique Items where they currently sit.

I'm sorry? That makes exactly zero sense to me. Explain please. Epics have a vast amount of stats more than either of these rarity types. They have a vast amount more than LEs. LEs I canunderstand due to being sets, thus being buffed considerably by skills but Rare and Unique? No, surely not. And at a time where people claim they want more challenge, putting EVEN MORE stats on Epics seems counter intuitive.

 

~ Grim

[Toreth]

I'm sorry? That makes exactly zero sense to me. Explain please. Epics have a vast amount of stats more than either of these rarity types. They have a vast amount more than LEs. LEs I canunderstand due to being sets, thus being buffed considerably by skills but Rare and Unique? No, surely not. And at a time where people claim they want more challenge, putting EVEN MORE stats on Epics seems counter intuitive.
 
~ Grim

Of course you're correct in that Epics, as stand alone items, have more stats, however, we can't just view them as an individual item when it comes to their viability. Because of the way FS functions with its layered stats, nearly everything is compounded on top of one another.

For the attachments, I have all of the comparisons done for every epic except for the Snorra and Egg armor which have been released post data collection, but could also take a look at those; I'm also willing to share the workbook of the remaining comparisons as well for transparency.

Epics haven't been used for hunting in a long while, aren't used in arenas higher than level ~400 (I'd need to consult with the resident experts on this for 100% accuracy about the level), and aren't used for PvP/GvG due to their lack of viability higher than somewhere in the ~100's.

I think it's fair to say most of us DO want more challenge, but Epics being buffed wouldn't affect the game in its current state today - instead it would just allow for more options to do what we're already doing. There is a "one-size-fits-all" answer to optimum hunting for the Overkill bonus, a general consensus for what should be used for offline gear viability in PvP/GvG, and specific areas of stats that succeed in the Arena - the only unfortunate bit is that none of them currently include Epics. Epics have been relegated to "offline for Stamina Gain only," when their potential, as evidenced by earlier levels, is so much more.

"Disclaimer: For items that belong to a set, the set bonus to the item was applied by taking the total number of stat points in the set bonus and distributing them equally across the number of items in the set. Why was this done? The use of Coordinated Buffs is too much for epics to make up for losing."

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[EpicPiety]

The OP is suggesting that if EOC epics will not increase in stam gain (One day i will convince you, especially after EOC leveling formula rewrite), they must offer more stats. This will at least make them favored in Arena. Right now new epics at EOC are basically dead on arrival.

The suggestion is to move epics stats:level to 4 from about 2. This will not make them viable in pve/pvp rather arena.

Edited by EpicPiety, 17 May 2022 - 12:08.

[BigGrim]

Stuff!

Crikey! Thanks, will give this a read.
 

The suggestion is to move epics stats:level to 4 from about 2.

You're suggesting outright doubling their stats?

~ Grim

[Toreth]

Crikey! Thanks, will give this a read. You're suggesting outright doubling their stats?~ Grim

As EP and I have discussed this before, I feel rather comfortable answering in his stead; what he made mention of isn't doubling the stat points - that would invalidate many other options in the game.

What he's saying is that if epics had 4 stat points per the items level to make it a general linear model for their viability.

For instance:

Level 1000 Epic = 4000 stat points
Level 2000 Epic = 8000 stat points
Level 3000 Epic = 12000 stat points
Level 4000 Epic = 16000 stat points

Obviously all allocated accordingly. The stat points don't and shouldn't include the max Stam as they don't hold value in the day to day play.

Moving towards a y=4x system for epics only helps all future releases maintain value as well as give value to preexisting epics as well.

Edited by Toreth, 17 May 2022 - 16:20.

[EpicPiety]

Crikey! Thanks, will give this a read.
 
You're suggesting outright doubling their stats?

~ Grim

Yea what Toreth said. Having Epics give 4 stat points per level will be a great benefit to epic tier items. This won't make them really that viable in PvP/PvE due to buffs and scaling but in arenas they will be sought after.

This will make it so when new EOC epics come available with only +7 gain, they will be more sought after due to more favorable stat scaling.

 

Besides, if you look back at 1-200 range... we already have epics with this scaling and even higher and it's not detrimental. 

Edited by EpicPiety, 17 May 2022 - 16:28.

[yghorbeviahn]

To keep Epics not count as Set items, but to make them do not disrupt Coordinate Attack/Defense would also help a bit for some levels brackets, people could start having 4 sets for KE/SH + 1 Epic as the 9th loose item

[Prop]

Along with all this a new pair of epic boots might be nice too. While these things are doing wonders for my calves and butt they're playing havoc with my toes and ankles.

[BigGrim]

For instance:

Level 1000 Epic = 4000 stat points
Level 2000 Epic = 8000 stat points
Level 3000 Epic = 12000 stat points
Level 4000 Epic = 16000 stat points

Obviously all allocated accordingly. The stat points don't and shouldn't include the max Stam as they don't hold value in the day to day play.

Moving towards a y=4x system for epics only helps all future releases maintain value as well as give value to preexisting epics as well.

Yea what Toreth said. Having Epics give 4 stat points per level will be a great benefit to epic tier items. This won't make them really that viable in PvP/PvE due to buffs and scaling but in arenas they will be sought after.

 

Huh. That's slightly less potent than out right doubling their stats. But given the information presented, I think we could move in this direction. We'll try this on a few new epics and see what happens. Then, who knows what we might do in the future.

 

*Looks at Roadmap*

 

Huh.

 

~ Grim

[EpicPiety]

 

Huh. That's slightly less potent than out right doubling their stats. But given the information presented, I think we could move in this direction. We'll try this on a few new epics and see what happens. Then, who knows what we might do in the future.

 

*Looks at Roadmap*

 

Huh.

 

~ Grim

Super cool

For example
 

Snora Amulet Level 4750

Stats 

Armor: 6860   Damage: 2940
 

approximately 2.06 Stat points per level

Moved to

~13k armor ~6k damage Approximately 4 stat points per level.

These figures are more closely related to epics in 1-200 range which they are widely used .

Love it

[EpicPiety]

Would be cool if epics came with like ~100 hp aswell as a 3rd stat