63 replies to this topic

[gilby90813]

I saw the sentence "Why would I donate? There is nothing on the game that worth it anymore" more than a single time.

ive donated to games where i was to lazy to wait. Or it was impossible to get said item without donating. but all my donation were 20$ at most

[yghorbeviahn]

ive donated to games where i was to lazy to wait. Or it was impossible to get said item without donating. but all my donation were 20$ at most

I see your point, I'm sure that people still donate, the is here yet after all...But you can see my point, if the minnimun salary is enough for you to live on a mansion, buy a Lamborghini and to give free parties for your neighbors, why would you care going to college to become a doctor?

[Anonemesis]

Solution is Larger Playbase. Instead of discussing alternative ways to keep prices up between 200-300 people...does the price really matter if your playing with so little people? It feels more like at this point everyones crawling on top of bodies xD lets focus on a real solution cus it doesn't matter at this point 

[yghorbeviahn]

Exactly...Limited player base with infinite supply, it was obvious that would happen at some point, and Titan Doubler and Teleport only made it faster, but that is not the real problem.

[REDBARON2]

I now hunt titans and I only have 1 epic to my name that is mine.  I have a slow, (nearly nonexistent now) fsp income and watch the price of epics.  I'm very careful with my dots.
 
Yes, I would like to own a full set of epics of my very own, but am not in any hurry because I still don't have the base stam to be worthy of a full epic setup.
 
If epics rotate out I might not get them, please leave them be.

I only have two epics and four fsp. I am glad that the price is dropping. But once I start titan hunting for real then I would agree and say epics are undervalued. Lol.

[Pardoux]

I was thinking about this lately, but I decided to not post about it, but since someone did it, I'll say what I think about it.

The main problem is not about the Titan Hunter profits, or to spread the Epics more, is to make FSPs desirable for the game, so people will need to buy it, capitalism people.

If FSPs are not needed, why would I buy the Special Offer? For sure it give us some shiny potions, but is that enough to make everyone donate? Of course not.

Epics used to be the most expensive part of that game, so people would need to hunt them, play A LOT of other aspects to raise money to buy then (activity, good) or people would need to buy FSP with money (money for HCS, good, they will focus more on the game development).

-

Now there is not a many items that worth that much, some GvG Epics, some few Scavenging sets (60FSPish) and Epic Potions, that's it...Everything else goes for character upgrades, which is good for one point, but not that good for economics.

I saw the sentence "Why would I donate? There is nothing on the game that worth it anymore" more than a single time.

 

Epics still are the most expensive part of the game - just not, as titan hunters would like, ALL epics.

 

Price is driven by demand and availability - some are copious in-game and thus have a much more attractive price to "joe public" player - i.e. players who don't need to donate $180 in order to buy some pixels.

 

Some epic are, let's be blunt about this, scandalously priced - but, I guess if some players are willing to pay those prices, fair play to them.

[yotwehc]

...
Now there is not a many items that worth that much, some GvG Epics, some few Scavenging sets (60FSPish) and Epic Potions, that's it...Everything else goes for character upgrades, which is good for one point, but not that good for economics.

...

Have you seen the price of the flashing ring? Mirka boots?

 

Anyway, the point of the OP was how to make epics valuable again by reducing supply.

You made 2 points... Your first was that it should become more valuable so people are encouraged to donate but you didn't really state how... Are you agreeing with OP?

Then you agreed with the other point made by someone else that we need more players. (Increase demand - which is not what OP is suggesting)

 

As OP is suggesting, the 3 titans targeted are all lower level. If the values were to be increased, guess who is going to be more interested in chasing them again? ME... the snobby hunter... locking out the other groups I mention who benefit from the current decline. I will also have the advantage of using high level epic items with TS making me teleport all over the place dominating against those lower level players. Not sure this is the best solution.

[yghorbeviahn]

Sorry, I was really going off-topic on my statement, that was not indicating any solution, just explaining why the Epic prices going that low is bad for the game as a whole...I'll try to give some suggestions.

But first, the example of Mirkas and the new Seasonal Epics are a good example of my points, why they are expensive? The low supply (Seasonal and only appeared 1 or 2 times until now), but check Nutcracker Ring for example, used to worth 1700+ FSPs, now it is 350 at best, Mirkas was 1700-2000 FSPs last year, now you can buy it with 650 dots. 

-

Now the suggestions.

First, we need to figure out the desired prices for the Epics, how much they should worth to be fair and profitable enough to hunt? 100FSPs? 200?

I think 150~250 is a good amount for the general +2 stam all the time Epics, you'll be able to buy 2 Epics with one donation and still have the Epic Chest to use.

Now, how to do it?
1 - Increasing the demand.
2 - Decreasing the supply.
3 - Giving something to do with what we have now.

Doesn't matter where we run, everything is resumed to those 3 factors, always.

Upgradable Epics:
2x Ogalith Gloves become Ogalith Gloves 2 (3 stam gain, 3 xp gain, 50% raise on max stamina)

- Ways to do it:
Each Titan could drop 1 Recipe for that, and after you invent, the Recipe is gone, you'll need a new one to invent again...The Recipe could be Guild Bound, but not the Invented Epic. (Secure = 1 Ogalith Gloves + 1 Ogalith Gloves 2 Recipe)
(That would prevent Omacaz killing it, and will make Titan Hunting more active, since the Recipe would not be sold)

Increasing the demand: People buying it to invent.
Decreasing the supply: Each Ogalith we drop will be used to Invent with.
Something to do with what we have now: Since the Titan will drop only 1 Gloves, you'll need another to invent with, and for that we will use what we already have in game.

That would be a temporary fix while we don't raise the player base signicantly.

-

That will also give more stamina for the players, which I think is good, 9 years old game, game going for Steam and Apps, people want to play more and for that we need more stamina...Not to say that now we have hundreds of buffs to cast for doing almost anything on the game, or need to use stamina to farm frags for composing, so more stamina is kinda of necessary to be more active on the game.

 

[Pardoux]

Now the suggestions.

First, we need to figure out the desired prices for the Epics, how much they should worth to be fair and profitable enough to hunt? 100FSPs? 200?
 

 

The desired price ??

Profitability is something that each player has to work out. You can't set a "generic" figure above which it's profitable and below which it's not.

 

Titan hunters fall into 2 camps, maybe 3 ...

 

1. Those that want to hunt as many as possible to get as rich as possible

 

2. Those that want to hunt them for personal use

 

3. Those that hunt 'em for pleasure and don't care about the item value.

 

All that decreasing supply achieves is alienating the majority of the player base who, for reasons best known to themselves, can't / won't donate. Leave titans alone (other than eliminating scripting, but that's another argument oft repeated and seldom acted upon).

 

Bottom line, as I've said before, if they're not profitable for YOU to hunt, then don't - simple.

 

I think I've seen a post by BG that says they won't be used in recipes - I hope I'm right there - and I hope, if so, that he sticks to his guns....

[yghorbeviahn]

Opinons are like arms, some have, some don't, no problem Pard, we do nto agree on this, the earth still spin, the sun still rise and the clock still tick, I'm not here to break your arguments, I'm here to point a (in my opinion) problem and to offer my suggestion about how to fix it in case HCS sees the need to, if they don't want to fix it, I'll still be playing, you'll too, life goes on.

But like I said, when the will to buy stuff ceases, the will to make money also ceases. 

[yghorbeviahn]

And yeah, we need (players+HCS) need to think about where the prices should be to be healthy for the game, why not? Market prediction is global thing, Wall Street is there for a reason for sure.

If HCS is going to create upgradable Epics, you can make it needing 2 Epics to give +1 stam gain to raise the price, or make it need 10 of the same Epic and make it +6 stam gain to make the prices sky-rocket.

So to think about it before creating any type of fix for any kind of possible problem, you need to decide which should be the target price to keep the items.

[davidutz]

 how about   lets  say .. 

 

 

recipe :

 

 

2 X  oggy gloves ( 2 gain each ) +  some plants  but like 10 of each extract =  1 oggy  with 3 gain  different color and stuff same stats 

 

2 X oggy glove ( 3 gain each ) +  other epic no gain like stemworck + plants    other plants  then the first recipe , more  tipes  maby 15 of each  = 1 oggy gloves  4 gain different color  same stats 

 

 

 

and that is a limit  double stats  of gain  if u use 4 of the same  tipe of items + u  make pople run around for plants  and maby add there some champion stuff to .. and same for all epics  this will drop the epic stock with 75 %  and not giving more tehn stamina .. wich people  will use  to play more ..  

 

 

 

 

my 2c

[DARKELITE1]

I think it's great that some of the epic drops have been devalued. Aside from the Colossus of Gurgriss, what titans with low value epics hang around forever? Once they do hang around for a while, I think changes should be considered but until then, this is the least broken aspect so why fix it?

 

The reasons I think the devaluation is great:

- makes snobby titan hunters like myself ignore them giving the less snobby more opportunity

- gives folks with slower connections a chance

- gives folks new to titan hunting a chance to give it a go and get addicted to it so they can also become snobby titan hunters

- gives folks with less dots a chance to own a few epics

 

The negatives?

- Poor merchants can't make as many dots

- Pro titan hunters have to look at smaller profit margins

Hmm yh you have turned me lol

[SirAdmiral]

Some epic are, let's be blunt about this, scandalously priced - but, I guess if some players are willing to pay those prices, fair play to them.

That was pretty much how the SEs played out too. Now you can't even give some of them away.


The cycle starts anew.

Edited by SirAdmiral, 07 January 2016 - 01:51.

[RebornJedi]

Super elites could be made super again by introducing iventables or consumables using them.. Add in epics and that's two item rarities that are brought into the light again.. Composing had a chance to revive super elites but global events killed that possibility..

[SirAdmiral]

Super elites could be made super again by introducing iventables or consumables using them.. Add in epics and that's two item rarities that are brought into the light again.. Composing had a chance to revive super elites but global events killed that possibility..

Power creep also didn't help keep Super Elites alive.

[RebornJedi]

What's power creep?

[SirAdmiral]

What's power creep?

When new stuff is added that completely outclasses the old stuff.

[Filletminion]

There are a number of issues at work here, Player numbers Item saturation and Composing believe it or not....

 

The game Needs players not profiteers Players You want to get xyz shiny medal go for it the cows do not owe you 1 fsp having done so of your own free will. If Items are in decline save your stamina persue other goals in game this game is cyclical and follows predictable patterns.

 

Players suggesting you use 2 pairs of plus 2 oggy's to make a pair of plus 3 oggies and so on forget the effect this would have on devaluing other epic gloves right up the line. It removes incentive to play all the game as it offers an

easy way to get better items.

 

Power creep is Composing potions better sets etc etc rendering  creature or players stats irrelevant. Being able to 1 hit Elites without a group or use overkill and get the bonus without using wither or ew1500 pots...the game has fundamentally changed due to the effect of high level composing pots...for those who have them.

 

On a positive Player Numbers are being addressed by the new mobile app that is being developed Hcs have put on another coder which will only boost their brand it has been their weakness for years not due to the quality of people and skills but just plain lack of hours in a day this team work their backsides off they are all committed to the growth of the games they are working on...We need to understand this sometimes and give them room and time...If players could only stop saying mememememe and start looking for what is good for the GAME. And Right now low prices are good for getting new players into the game.

[Morgwyn]

I really hope inventing with epics will NOT be the future. In the long run it won't solve anything. Sure perhaps one year prices will go up, but after that you will have the same problem again. And the price increase will depend on how great the new inventable items will be. If they are lower than players expect/want, the effect of the wanted price increase will be low or none.

 

Best way to deal with it is to add more titans, and make all titans seasonal. Have all titans come out only once a year, throughout the whole year. 

Another way is to add a few more enhancements that players find interesting, like:

- one to five extra bp slots

- bonus on fury caster enhancement

- non taggable epic (so it only is for personal use and cannot be shared, thus raising the demand for it)

 

 

I agree totally that a larger player base helps, but we can all repeat that over and over, but we are talking about a game that is having it's 10th birthday this year. It is 2D browser based, it just won't meet everybodies expectations anymore, compared to many other games out there. Yes, we and HCS must keep encouraging players to join and play, but getting more players just is not that simple.

 

I have also read that low prices is good for starting players. I can agree to that at some point, but there are more aspects to it. Not all players can donate or want to donate. Some do not want to donate a lot, just a small amount. This is a large group. Those players depend on making their fsp from within the game. Higher prices is better for such players.

Starting players these days, won't have much problems to get in a guild. And really low level gear is what most guilds have covered pretty well. Starting players have free access to the best of gear these days, just because all guilds have what they need. So also on that point I disagree that low prices are good for them. If prices would rise, it would mean another source of income to them.

 

Also, when making/designing epics, make them so that once you create one, it does not render another one useless. If you have Skaldir boots for level 260 with +1 stam gain, and Cyclonus boots for level 125 with +2 stam gain, it is not strange that the Skaldir boots become less in demand to fast.

 

Overall, I am not saying here that all epics should be 300-400 fsp or more each, not for me to decide what their value should be, just addressing the point on how they could be more valuable, as well as adressing a few points made by others here.

Edited by Morgwyn, 08 January 2016 - 10:16.