163 replies to this topic

[ecolitan]

It really can't be on the whole set or purists would be game-breakingly powerful.

Why is it game-breaking powerful? Can you list what purists have to go against HK / Elite / high def creatures?
I am not sure if soldiers have many people pulling their back when they asked for their overhaul, but sure cyborgs and purists have a lot!!! Luckily cyborgs pass through, and now purists ...

Btw, cows, the psi set lvl 200 have set bonus of 20 atk & 40 dmg, I definitely don't think the new skill give bonus of 15% on those stats, right ?

Because the only way MS works not to be a mechanics breaker is if it doesn't come WITH stat boosts equivalent of other classes. The purist class can concentrate evo points into 2 (many just into 1) stat and level perfectly fine and MS allows them to ignore 2 or 3 other stats. That's fine, so long as it comes at the expense of limited stat bonuses. Which it has. Total attainable damage from good leveling setups is not very different between classes - but purist is a bit lower and that reflects the trade-off for having MS (imo and seems to be how cows are proceeding).

I think they took too much away from MS on Elites, but the old attunement (which wasn't working) gave a chance to 1-hit these with a boost of around 200-250 attack and 300-350 damage at the expense of ammo. I still think MS should have worked once against Elites and then with attunement would have been relatively equal playing field. New attunement adds a few points to all stats (potentially - and this isn't working either) but it can't add much more or purists would be just as effective as other classes in all stats (effective after skills) and still have MS. The tradeoff to MS has to be something in the mechanics (stats) or it will be overpowering. Attunement now (should) add a small boost to most stats (durability immune) instead of the Elite/HK buster that it used to be (well - it's STILL not working from what I can see on purists but it will...). I would have preferred the old if I were a purist, but the purists in the forums wanted stats instead....

[Removed94]

This is a new skill. The original Autnement was so unpopular that we altered it to this new buff.

It was only unpopular because of MS. After that was changed, some people that wished to hunt HK/elites used a skill reset just to have attunement maxed ...now this? I don't want to pay the 225fc to reset my skills and evo points again,so I am left with the option of suffering the change or retiring from the game...I guess only time will tell It's a sad day.

[Sakuliver]

:shock: why!? So I, and many others, finally found a way that Attunement was going to be useful (though luckily I didn't put 100 points in it yet) and now we get this change?!

And honestly....I don't see any stat change. I have both Alahzen and Leviant equiped, so with 50 points in Attunement this should give a massive +6 bonus in Damage (and 1-2 points in the rest)....but I don't even see this increase.

Shouldn't this be showing up?

[Molehunter]

Judging from the various debugging activities from previous changes... May be the updated code got bugs...

[centurion]

not sure if the bonus is on full set stat or just on set bonus. if it is former, it is nice. if it is latter, it is not worth even considering.

IMHO, purist need the following to be fair:


stackable unfilled shard. (not stone, just shard)
1 hit MS on Elite
Old attunement with same bonus as overload.


if new attunement applies to full stats, I think is an excellent buff and could be a compromise vs old attunement, but still should have first two.

and I am not even a purist. geez.

[Sakuliver]

looks like it...so we went from an unpopular, bugged skill to a potentially suddenly very interesting skill (though still not working), to a new skill....which doesn't work either.

Why are there always so many bugs in updates? The work in daily life I'm doing involves a lot of writing, presenting new things, making upgrades. And there you're really not making a good figure if you bringing something in which is bugged. Of course it can happen and it does every now and then, but when every time you come up with something without testing it before you're going to have a problem.

Maybe it is a tactic of HCS to involve the players in finding the bugs? If that's really the case, just say so...most people probably happily take them out and it saves a lot of time for the Cows.

[acidic]

This is a good direction.

Any chance on getting empty stones stackable?

After trying it out, I retract my statement, but the concept was nice - just not the actual result.

Oh, and any word about the stones?

[RJEM]

Seriously Cows? This update is awful for purists as it currently stands.

Most sets have (at most) low double digit 'set bonuses'. 18% of bugger all is still....well....bugger all.

So the old attunement was unpopular - I accept that. I also know people who found a way to make it 'potentially' workable after the first update.

Now it's just hopeless. Unless future sets are going to have +500 in the bonuses as a compensator for low overall stats then I cannot conceive of where you thought this was going. Even if that were the case it would make working with other class buffs difficult as they work on specific items rather than sets as a whole, so would be far weakened.

Caveat: I don't think the solution is to make it apply to the whole set stats - that would be close to the bonuses from the other 3 class' buffs, and therefore gamebreaking with MS in play.

[acidic]

I think MadCow disease may be responsible.

I redid my stats today and have no core buffs and am using all purist buffs. I am actually pretty strong - at least comparable to other classes. However, this seems to change the definition of difficult to that of maddening.

With all enhancing buffs (Dart, Bolt, Missle, MS, Attunement, Crystal thought) I was strong - still not able to use telekinetic shield (no points). I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for low level players without the points to use this class now.

I think it is time that purist class be reclassified as most expensive class to have and not the most difficult.

The stone situation needs to be made manageable. I have 100 backpack spots and it is still insanely frustrating to manage the supply. If I want to carry 20 ammo rounds, that means I have to carry them in 20 spaces instead of 4 like all other classes. That is just lame.

I thank you for working with us to try and improve the class, but lets try to sort this out. I am sure you guys think we just complain about everything but we want to see everything functional as much as you do.

Please at least acknowledge the stone thing.

Also I think your on the right path with the attunement change, but the enhancement is really equal to what other classes have. How about .5% per point to set bonus or .05% to psi gear stats instead??

Another option, is dropping set piece stats and folding them into the bonus for the entire set - while not ideal it would allow skills like attunement to be functional without being over powered.

[ecolitan]

I think MadCow disease may be responsible.

I redid my stats today and have no core buffs and am using all purist buffs. I am actually pretty strong - at least comparable to other classes. However, this seems to change the definition of difficult to that of maddening.

With all enhancing buffs (Dart, Bolt, Missle, MS, Attunement, Crystal thought) I was strong - still not able to use telekinetic shield (no points). I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for low level players without the points to use this class now.

I think it is time that purist class be reclassified as most expensive class to have and not the most difficult.

The stone situation needs to be made manageable. I have 100 backpack spots and it is still insanely frustrating to manage the supply. If I want to carry 20 ammo rounds, that means I have to carry them in 20 spaces instead of 4 like all other classes. That is just lame.

I thank you for working with us to try and improve the class, but lets try to sort this out. I am sure you guys think we just complain about everything but we want to see everything functional as much as you do.

Please at least acknowledge the stone thing.

Also I think your on the right path with the attunement change, but the enhancement is really equal to what other classes have. How about .5% per point to set bonus or .05% to psi gear stats instead??

Another option, is dropping set piece stats and folding them into the bonus for the entire set - while not ideal it would allow skills like attunement to be functional without being over powered.

If you are already equivalent to other classes with current buffs and also have access to MS then you are stronger - why would you need a stronger attunement bonus in addition to that?

[acidic]

18 point bonus with attunement 120 to damage on an HK set... pretty feeble... almost like it isn't worth it....

[RJEM]

18 point bonus with attunement 120 to damage on an HK set... pretty feeble... almost like it isn't worth it....

It isn't worth it. Increasing the bonus to 50% at level 100 (i.e. .5% per point) is a reasonable compromise.

However I'd much rather the original skill was improved than this new, weak, useless c**p introduced.

Also - given that this change seems to have come from player feedback I really think you should look at the loudest cries of all - the stackable mind shards when empty!

[Removed94]

new, weak, useless c**p introduced.

Those are the words I was looking for to describe this The skill was fine before it was changed, in my opinion...other than the fact that it didn't work.

[ecolitan]

18 point bonus with attunement 120 to damage on an HK set... pretty feeble... almost like it isn't worth it....

But it isn't about any one skill - Attunement used to be usable for a purpose. Now, it doesn't give much. But it gives in the neighborhood 40 points of bonus on the 190 HK set if we want to be fair.

But, purists clamored for a stat increasing skill. As you've pointed out - there isn't much of a deficit in stat points. And, MS has to come with a mechanics cost (which will basically be stat points given how the rest of trees are set up). I was merely pointing out that recognizing that purists don't have much of a deficit now means they shouldn't get more stat points as they have a mechanics friendly skill that no other class has a comparable too. MS will come with stat point costs or it will be right back where everything started.

[RJEM]

18 point bonus with attunement 120 to damage on an HK set... pretty feeble... almost like it isn't worth it....

But it isn't about any one skill - Attunement used to be usable for a purpose. Now, it doesn't give much. But it gives in the neighborhood 40 points of bonus on the 190 HK set if we want to be fair.

But, purists clamored for a stat increasing skill. As you've pointed out - there isn't much of a deficit in stat points. And, MS has to come with a mechanics cost (which will basically be stat points given how the rest of trees are set up). I was merely pointing out that recognizing that purists don't have much of a deficit now means they shouldn't get more stat points as they have a mechanics friendly skill that no other class has a comparable too. MS will come with stat point costs or it will be right back where everything started.

I would be careful here - a small deficit now does not necessarily mean small forever.

Currently Purists get 2 damage points per level, plus whatever they get from gear.

Other classes get some damage points, at least the same from gear, and class buff enhancements. Eventually the nature of gear and stat increases will cause the Purist (All Evo Points + Unenhanced Gear) to be less than the other classes (Some Evo points + Gear + Buffs) by a huge margin. I can't predict when without studying stat trends across levels, or by drawing an analogy with Fallen Sword. However, eventually even MS won't be enough compensation if the damage isn't enough to 1 hit when others can.

I believe 1 small set bonus booster (higher than currently available) will offset this issue with planning by the cows on where the set bonuses go.

Whilst purists need to accept they won't ever be getting 15% added to all their set stats because of the huge advantage of MS, they do not need to be completely prevented from having bonuses.

Something to think about.

[acidic]

The bottom line is this:

Purist give up A LOT to get the shield. We wanted a bit of balance brought back - especially since we loose the shield if we try to balance ourselves with core gear.

Now to use the shield we have to BUY A LOT of backpack slots or constantly travel to and from the store. The purist tree was fine before all these changes according to most purists. NOW many purist have stopped being purists - which is fine I guess, we needed a greater spread on the classes. However, those who remained pointed out that they are extremely behind in the stat bonuses from their skills. Even with the addition of our weapons we are still behind the curve. My suggestion was not over powering and was more focused around a normal set. Using my current level 200 set, attunement only offers a 10 pt increase (3pts to attack, 7pts to damage). My suggestion would have made that +12 to attack, +24 to damage - hardly overpowered. The other option would have been +25att, +18def, +8arm, +36 damage. A lot of points, but spread so as to make them still not overpowered. Of course as with all thing in the scottish pasture, our suggestions never get implemented with out numbers. I figured my suggestions my get split in half and implemented - which would result in a pretty insignificant change, but one that would not be as unhelpful as the current "solution".

By the way - did I mention that shards should be stackable - as they are it is REALLY lame.

[ecolitan]

The bottom line is this:

Purist give up A LOT to get the shield. We wanted a bit of balance brought back - especially since we loose the shield if we try to balance ourselves with core gear.

Only if you use a core weapon. You can use core gear in every other slot without affecting MS (or any other significant skill).

Now to use the shield we have to BUY A LOT of backpack slots or constantly travel to and from the store. By the way - did I mention that shards should be stackable - as they are it is REALLY lame.

I've seen nobody that disagrees with this.

The purist tree was fine before all these changes according to most purists. NOW many purist have stopped being purists - which is fine I guess, we needed a greater spread on the classes. However, those who remained pointed out that they are extremely behind in the stat bonuses from their skills. Even with the addition of our weapons we are still behind the curve.

Many purists in my faction don't see this "being behind the curve". In fact, almost universally the attempt to get some stats is disliked as they preferred the Attunement skill as it was yesterday (I would as well).

My suggestion was not over powering and was more focused around a normal set. Using my current level 200 set, attunement only offers a 10 pt increase (3pts to attack, 7pts to damage). My suggestion would have made that +12 to attack, +24 to damage - hardly overpowered. The other option would have been +25att, +18def, +8arm, +36 damage. A lot of points, but spread so as to make them still not overpowered. Of course as with all thing in the scottish pasture, our suggestions never get implemented with out numbers. I figured my suggestions my get split in half and implemented - which would result in a pretty insignificant change, but one that would not be as unhelpful as the current "solution".

Your suggestion referred to the HK set. I pointed out it had a lot more points than you suggested. You may have non-HK sets in mind when you are suggesting it - but the HK sets are in the game so the impact on those sets must be considered (just as any other class' skills).

My point is that purists in these forums have argued that they need some stat points. HCS recognizes that making purists "on par" with other classes as far as stats and letting them have MS is not going to work. So, the cry for more stat points got a few points, which is probably all cows thought was possible GIVEN MS. It also removed a potentially beneficial skill that MANY purists liked.

Arguing of stat point "equivalence" when only one class has MS is meaningless. In order for MS to not be overpowering purists must have a deficit in meaningful (usually damage though sometimes attack) stat points. Otherwise it's a "win" class like it was when MS lasted forever.

Stackable uncharged shards (I'm getting convinced by Centurion that stones can stay as is) and an MS that works once fully on Elites and Attunement like it was yesterday (only working) and I think purists have a very interesting mix of skills without being overpowering in a gamebreaking way. This will allow purists to potentially have a solo advantage in Elite and HK games if they are smart about how they use those skills, but that's ok as it requires thought, work and planning.

[PointyHair]

Folks, check the skill description on MS. We got elites back, and full strength I think, 3 hits.

Now if we can just get attunement back...