53 replies to this topic

[Pardoux]

I have to say, i just don't get all the griping and the bitching about content now coming out too fast. Where does it say anywhere that we all have to race to EOC ? - I'm sure it doesn't. Just 'cos content is there, doesn't mean we all have to buy energy to race through it at breakneck speed. Slow down, enjoy the ride ... I was EOC for a lil while, and now I'm 37 levels away from it - but now that gives me something to look forward to.

As grim said - "first content was too slow, now too fast - unreal".

That said - I'd love to see a new HK around the L300 mark too - that would be interesting

[Pardoux]

acidic said

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I am also still convinced that tieing bonuses to medals would also make the pursuit of such a easy to implement and time consuming side project for many players.

Medals ARE the bonus - some pretty little bit of bling to put on your profile .. Why does there have to be more ?

[acidic]

Pardoux said

acidic said

.
I am also still convinced that tieing bonuses to medals would also make the pursuit of such a easy to implement and time consuming side project for many players.

Medals ARE the bonus - some pretty little bit of bling to put on your profile .. Why does there have to be more ?

I know that argument and it is enough for some but not most. I don't think they need to be much, but people will always go after anything that gives them any type of bonus to gameplay. Medals as medals do not offer a bonus.

[MamorukunBE]

acidic said

I don't think they need to be much, but people will always go after anything that gives them any type of bonus to gameplay. Medals as medals do not offer a bonus.

Agreed. I never went after medals because it is just small gif images hidden somewhere deep in your profile :/ Add some bonuses (like lvl 500 ITS stims? ^^) per medal gained, and I'll reaaaaaaly start playing for gaining them :twisted:

[Iago]

ecolitan said

BigGrim said

supermum said

panick release of content all of a sudden

Panic? Hardly. Managing to get a consistant work flow to achieve our aims.

First not enough content, now too much. Unreal.

Well, there is such a thing as too fast content. From HCS point of view as well. Content that arrives so fast that, coupled with increasing mob kills per level, it is REQUIRED to buy energy to stay anywhere near EoC is probably a bad idea. From a player and company perspective.

A couple quick contents to put a gap in players is fine - but if it continued at this pace I can guarantee that a fairly large group of players would lose interest. I'd rather see stately progress on content and good side games that were well rewarded and fully developed to tons of content (no matter how good). Just my opinion.

As acidic stated, many players have adopted play styles that make the game most enjoyable given content delivery rates. Increasing content delivery rates is one thing, but creating a PAY to keepup game probably won't be so well received. Particularly by players that have adopted these styles.

Note - I'm not saying this is the way it's moving or going. Just pointing out some of the grumbling I've heard (from many players in different places) about "No way I'm paying to keep up so if it keeps up like this I may stop".

Erm.. what? :?

Quote

but if it continued at this pace I can guarantee that a fairly large group of players would lose interest.

Lack of content leads to loss of interest, not an abundance of content.

[MamorukunBE]

Iago, Iago...mmm... :? Doesn't ring a bell, so: nice to meet you! ^^

[Iago]

Mamorukun said

Iago, Iago...mmm... :? Doesn't ring a bell, so: nice to meet you! ^^

You mean, you've not heard my bell?
[img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:p8ZM1V7RStT-FM:http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q259/IridePow/2009-09-13_Transalp/18_Cow-with-bell.jpg&t=1[/img]

[BigGrim]

[quote name="acidic"]I hope it keeps up this way, along with the addition of other game feature.[/quote]

This is the pace we shall be continuing at. We do want another feature or two but at the moment, the focus is getting things ready for Christmas.

[quote name="acidic"]I think an easy one would be adding many more consumable stims that may be farmed by lower level player to supply the rest of the game. I am pretty sure this would greatly improve FC purchases and help your aims and ours.[/quote]

There's little point adding yet more stims of Skills that everyone can get through the Core Skill line. We will try to look at new skill for stims.

[quote name="acidic"]I also thought that some more story would be great - perhaps even some story that begins at higher levels and makes you travel backwards for completion like many of the epic quest suggestions.[/quote]

More story? There's tons of story in the missions.

[quote name="acidic"]I am also still convinced that tieing bonuses to medals would also make the pursuit of such a easy to implement and time consuming side project for many players.[/quote]

Hopefully we can look at this in the new year.

[quote name="supermum"]I still hope a new HK wont be added at EOC.[/quote]

Probably not going to see a new HK for a wee while. The last one was a touch too powerful.

[quote name="ecolitan"]Well, there is such a thing as too fast content.[/quote]

Hogwash.

[quote name="ecolitan"]Content that arrives so fast that, coupled with increasing mob kills per level, it is REQUIRED to buy energy to stay anywhere near EoC is probably a bad idea.[/quote]

You are not required to buy energy. This is still a free game.

[quote name="ecolitan"]I can guarantee that a fairly large group of players would lose interest. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Based on an opinion.

[quote name="ecolitan"]Creating a PAY to keepup game probably won't be so well received.[/quote]

See above. This is still a free game.

[quote name="EdTheHead"]Too much content hurts the game, I'm one of your daily players and I have 31 levels of content to do which leaves little time for other stuff like SF, artifacts, etc... and results in a boring level grind.[/quote]

You don't have to do all the Content the second it comes out. New players don't look at the game saying "I'm not playing this because there is too much content!" Neither should anyone else.

[quote name="EdTheHead"]Also players that relied on other players to make elite sets for them now find these players leveling rather than helping them, Players that made faction sets no longer making them available for players that can't afford to.[/quote]

Then it opens the way to Merchants. Spend time making the suits to sell.

[quote name="Pardoux"]I have to say, i just don't get all the griping and the bitching about content now coming out too fast. Where does it say anywhere that we all have to race to EOC ? - I'm sure it doesn't. Just 'cos content is there, doesn't mean we all have to buy energy to race through it at breakneck speed. Slow down, enjoy the ride ... I was EOC for a lil while, and now I'm 37 levels away from it - but now that gives me something to look forward to.[/quote]

Thank you!

[EdTheHead]

BigGrim said

EdTheHead said

Also players that relied on other players to make elite sets for them now find these players leveling rather than helping them, Players that made faction sets no longer making them available for players that can't afford to.

Then it opens the way to Merchants. Spend time making the suits to sell.

As i already stated it hasn't opened the way to Merchants since not many people stop to make sets anymore, some of the people that want to buy have found themselves having to make their own sets and not all buyers have the time to make a set that's why they buy them. (Note: this is not a comment regarding myself as i stop to make my own sets but you will lose players that can't buy what they need when they need it)

Another problem is you have no one on your staff that is a serious player so most of you seem to be clueless on the way the players see the game, when your vision is completely different to what the actual players see the end result is Players Online [ ? ]: 63 If you would like to increase this number you have to learn what the players want, failure to do so could see that number drop even lower trust me i hear what players are saying and it's not good.

[MamorukunBE]

I have to say that I completely agree with Pardoux and BG, Eco. I've never had so much fun playing SS2, now that I am not at EOC anymore I -even- began to take the time reading all the missions texts, and not only the bold one, now that I am not stressed anymore to “be at EOC as faster as possible” ^^

Well done HCS, that's indeed the way to go!

EdTheHead said

If you would like to increase this number you have to learn what the players want, failure to do so could see that number drop even lower trust me i hear what players are saying and it's not good.

Ed, believe me or not, but that's the -exact opposite- message I hear from my members in NB Perhaps BG is right here too: some players should simply stop "playing to be the first/top/stronger /whatever", and play for the fun of it, simply

[iut044]

Quote

BigGrim wrote:This is the pace we shall be continuing at. We do want another feature or two but at the moment, the focus is getting things ready for Christmas.

Can you increase the limit of Energy Gain (per hour) upgrade ?

[EdTheHead]

Mamorukun said

EdTheHead said

If you would like to increase this number you have to learn what the players want, failure to do so could see that number drop even lower trust me i hear what players are saying and it's not good.

Ed, believe me or not, but that's the -exact opposite- message I hear from my members in NB Perhaps BG is right here too: some players should simply stop "playing to be the first/top/stronger /whatever", and play for the fun of it, simply

Glad to hear a few disagree but that comment is not based on too much content or first/top/stronger it's based on the entire game, right this moment lowest I've ever seen Players Online [ ? ]: 52 That's not good

[Phyrexia]

Being a merchant gets even more profitable when power leveler don't stop to build sets! Few sets + higher demand = higher prices... I sold some Elite gear for very much FC, that's worth stopping content for a while! Even single drops are sold for many FC... so players that don't pay may get the possibility to earn FC -> upgrade on character and get chance to compete...

I like it this way...

In the end, it's energy that is getting rare and that means, every action that demands energy is getting higher value... less participants in SF: tokens are worth more $... same with sets, same with BKP, same with AR... up to now it had been possible to cover all this things with your energy- and still overflow of energy had been seen. Now you have to decide or specify... awesome new face of this game...

[MamorukunBE]

EdTheHead said

Glad to hear a few disagree but that comment is not based on too much content or first/top/stronger it's based on the entire game, right this moment lowest I've ever seen Players Online [ ? ]: 52 That's not good

That indeed I cannot deny If only HCS could make the advertisement a little more "visible" over the net :?

[ecolitan]

BigGrim said

ecolitan said

Well, there is such a thing as too fast content.

Hogwash.

Well, I was told it was hogwash when I stated that increasing credits and dropping all blueprints wouldn't generate significant positive changes in the number of online players. I was told it was hogwash when I tried to explain that soldier skills weren't allowing us to play on equal footing with other classes. So, not my paycheck if this fails but, dismissing our opinions as heavy handedly as is being done regularly in these forums when devs actually show up is a troubling sign.

BigGrim said

ecolitan said

Content that arrives so fast that, coupled with increasing mob kills per level, it is REQUIRED to buy energy to stay anywhere near EoC is probably a bad idea.

You are not required to buy energy. This is still a free game.

Ok BG the entire sentence goes together. I didn't say you need to buy energy. I said it's getting to the point where you are required to buy energy to stay anywhere near EoC. Trust me - that will discourage at least some players that suffered through 2 years of ....

BigGrim said

ecolitan said

I can guarantee that a fairly large group of players would lose interest. Just my opinion.

Based on an opinion.

To be clear. THOSE TWO SENTENCES DON'T GO TOGETHER. That is a misrepresentation BG and you know it. The first sentence is based on conversations with MANY players that are ALREADY losing interest. The second sentence was describing a MY preferences for content speed laid out clearly in ANOTHER sentence. Regardless, are our opinions about interest in the game meaningless anyway? The first sentence is based on the opinions of many players about what THEY will do. What other opinion matters to determine how they feel?

BigGrim said

ecolitan said

Creating a PAY to keepup game probably won't be so well received.

See above. This is still a free game.

But, it's not anywhere close to free to keepup. And, if players that spent money to develop characters are now told we need to spend money to purchase energy to stay close to the end of content it probably won't be well received. You can parse words and rearrange my statements all you want but it doesn't change the feelings of the players I'm hearing from.

We are all glad content picked up (ok, I assume we're all glad). However, most players I've talked to (and from the forum response it's representative) think it isn't good if the pace is as we see it for the past two releases. We don't want to see a couple players that spend a ton of money at the top with nobody else able to get close before next content comes out. After two years of it being otherwise and players having invested to be able to play as the game was developing, it's hard to watch that all change (again).

Maybe what the players' want for content speed doesn't matter. It's possible to continue without matching content and other programming deliverables to the desires of the players. Your comment above that "lack of content leads to loss of interest, not an abundance of content" is patently untrue. Players have different motivations for playing games. Sure, some will lose interest when content delivery is too slow - but those are gone already BG, for over a year in most cases. Given the structure of this game for two years (which shaped the current player base) motivations of MANY players are to do a ton of things while staying in top x (100?, 250?, Final Content?). If content pace makes that impossible without spending on energy that can lead to disinterest. Lack of adding all the "List o Doom" items creates loss of interest as well while we're at what really drives lack of interest.

BigGrim said

You don't have to do all the Content the second it comes out. New players don't look at the game saying "I'm not playing this because there is too much content!" Neither should anyone else.

Are you sure? Seriously, not being flip. How exactly do you know that some people don't decide not to play because it would be too expensive to get into the top xx starting now? That was never a consideration before the new content pace, but to declare that you KNOW that new players don't look at it that way implies you know why some players try the game and don't continue. I am confident that the devs haven't discovered why players look at the game, or even try it, and leave. I'm sure there are lots of reasons. I certainly wouldn't bet against there being some players (probably those that would upgrade) that gauge their chances of getting into the top before continuing or not.

[BigGrim]

Okay. Enough.

This thread is for feedback regarding the content. Not the speed of it and not sweeping generalizations regarding opinions. Knock it off.

[ecolitan]

Phyrexia said

In the end, it's energy that is getting rare and that means, every action that demands energy is getting higher value... less participants in SF: tokens are worth more $... same with sets, same with BKP, same with AR... up to now it had been possible to cover all this things with your energy- and still overflow of energy had been seen. Now you have to decide or specify... awesome new face of this game...

I'm not going to comment on the merchanting because you have assumed that only the supply changes with this. That's not true. The eventual impact is harder to decipher as demand is changing as well.

I agree that this change makes energy rare. In fact, if the pace is as declared and truly continues, it will require purchasing energy to get to EoC. The question is, is super-rare energy desirable? I will just take your assumptions about the results of this and post them:

Less participants in SF
Less participants in Behemoth Hunting
Less participants in Artifact Game

While I will agree that forcing players to make choices is of interest, I would categorically declare that if less people do all these things it is BAD for the game. I have always said a bit more content was good. This game probably would succeed best with fully developed side games and just enough extra energy (fully improved) to dabble in outside leveling. Creating a situation where players WANTED to buy a tad more energy to succeed at something while staying with content.

[BigGrim]

ecolitan said

The first sentence is based on the opinions of many players about what THEY will do. What other opinion matters to determine how they feel?

However, most players I've talked to (and from the forum response it's representative) think it isn't good if the pace is as we see it for the past two releases.

Then get these players to talk to us of the forum instead of presuming to be a mouthpiece for the masses. The forums are for feedback from all players, not just you and those you say you represent.

[ecolitan]

BigGrim said

ecolitan said

The first sentence is based on the opinions of many players about what THEY will do. What other opinion matters to determine how they feel?

However, most players I've talked to (and from the forum response it's representative) think it isn't good if the pace is as we see it for the past two releases.

Then get these players to talk to us of the forum instead of presuming to be a mouthpiece for the masses. The forums are for feedback from all players, not just you and those you say you represent.

Several of them have voiced this on the forum BG, right in this thread. So far the response is roughly evenly split on this change purely based on numbers of players and the feel of their comments. Anyone voicing what I said has been slammed down by a dev. That doesn't encourage the free flow of opinions from players that don't agree with the new pace. If I get players to come to the forum and state their opinions on this, is it worth their effort? Is this thread for this discussion? Should another be started?