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PvP Discussion

Started by fs_meepers , Jan 04 2007 18:33

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#21 fs_costin

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 10:06

devicem said

One more way is too make the PvP "real" based situation i.e. allow people to battle among themselves when they cross eachother and not attack with their 6 feet long swords across miles and miles away distance.

DHS said

I think you shouldn't be attacked if you're out of an area - I need somewhere to hide!

For me, this is a key factor.

The enormous weapons of mass, long-range destruction that someone suddenly acquires to allow them to hit people from across the realm... that doesn't work at all.

I have low level players in my Guild who suffer a dozen attacks or more an hour, usually by people who've managed to gather the Infernus set or similar (Darmov is far harder to get these days with so many players around... I remember the days when you could hit him half-a-dozen times without competition from anyone). It really puts people off... It's a steady loss of PvP rating and gold, chipping away at limited resources hard enough to get at low levels.

Restrict PvP by location. Perhaps even modify PvP if you're not within a certain distance of your opponent. Make it harder for people who sit in one spot and randomly attack people throughout half-a-dozen local realms by making remote PvP less efficient. Maybe you suffer a -0.2% modifier to combat stats per co-ordinate of distance between you and your opponent, with a -5% modifier if you're not in the same realm and -10% if you're not even on the same map. If I'm in the Entora Mountains and some high level player attacks me from the Varos Dungeon --- what the heck is that about? How can he pick up gold from that kind of encounter? Are we mages all of a sudden with super secret powers of teleportation we can use whenever we fancy? To that end - I would suggest if you are not in the same area - you don't get any gold from an attack (e.g. you need to be in the Dreg Marshes to attack someone in the Dreg Marshes and expect to get any gold from the assault).

Hoof - and Co. - in Gothador or similar games, PvP can be avoided by hiding. You don't want to PvP - you don't enter a PvP realm or you run fast! Here - you can get hammered on repeatedly on the hour, every hour. I don't want to suggest you add an off switch - where people can conscientiously decide not to PvP until it suits them... I'm saying, making PvPing a little more realistic and less of a random act of profitable violence.

Costin

#22 fs_borisdrago

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 18:40

Costin said

devicem said

One more way is too make the PvP "real" based situation i.e. allow people to battle among themselves when they cross eachother and not attack with their 6 feet long swords across miles and miles away distance.

DHS said

I think you shouldn't be attacked if you're out of an area - I need somewhere to hide!

For me, this is a key factor.

The enormous weapons of mass, long-range destruction that someone suddenly acquires to allow them to hit people from across the realm... that doesn't work at all.

I have low level players in my Guild who suffer a dozen attacks or more an hour, usually by people who've managed to gather the Infernus set or similar (Darmov is far harder to get these days with so many players around... I remember the days when you could hit him half-a-dozen times without competition from anyone). It really puts people off... It's a steady loss of PvP rating and gold, chipping away at limited resources hard enough to get at low levels.

Restrict PvP by location. Perhaps even modify PvP if you're not within a certain distance of your opponent. Make it harder for people who sit in one spot and randomly attack people throughout half-a-dozen local realms by making remote PvP less efficient. Maybe you suffer a -0.2% modifier to combat stats per co-ordinate of distance between you and your opponent, with a -5% modifier if you're not in the same realm and -10% if you're not even on the same map. If I'm in the Entora Mountains and some high level player attacks me from the Varos Dungeon --- what the heck is that about? How can he pick up gold from that kind of encounter? Are we mages all of a sudden with super secret powers of teleportation we can use whenever we fancy? To that end - I would suggest if you are not in the same area - you don't get any gold from an attack (e.g. you need to be in the Dreg Marshes to attack someone in the Dreg Marshes and expect to get any gold from the assault).

Hoof - and Co. - in Gothador or similar games, PvP can be avoided by hiding. You don't want to PvP - you don't enter a PvP realm or you run fast! Here - you can get hammered on repeatedly on the hour, every hour. I don't want to suggest you add an off switch - where people can conscientiously decide not to PvP until it suits them... I'm saying, making PvPing a little more realistic and less of a random act of profitable violence.

Costin



honestly lets not turn this game into a carebear game where everyone parades their best gear

as far as your guildies are concerned you are high enough level to protect them / get their gold back / or simply send them 1k-2k gold they need to recoup their losses till they get on their feet

2nd i like the ability to get back at someone for offending me / scamming me / ect ( in fact i dont even like the secure trade they got now cause it took gamble and trust out of this game )

so if you guys dont feel protected enough go buy fsps and forge your armor or dont complain

ppl who pay for this game should be better then you or me

and the only time you lose alot of anything is when a guy spent 100 stamina on attack and that means he has got it in for you

and even then usually by spending 100 stamina on lvlng you can get that and more back

#23 fs_costin

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 21:22

BorisDrago said

As far as your guildies are concerned you are high enough level to protect them / get their gold back / or simply send them 1k-2k gold they need to recoup their losses till they get on their feet.


You seem to be playing the game for a different reason that I. I play for fun. If my 5th level culty gets slapped by a 7th level bully, I can't exactly step in, can I? What would be the point of me PvPing someone who's 20+ levels beneath me? --- that would be just more bullying. I don't gain anything -- they get angry --- they attack someone else. Ever increasing circles of pointless violence follow.

BorisDrago said

so if you guys dont feel protected enough go buy fsps and forge your armor or dont complain

You lost me. Hellforging costs FSPs. The game is free. You shouldn't need to Hellforge to have any chance to win the game... I wasn't complaining, I was setting forth an issue I'd encountered and some suggestions on how to avoid it.

BorisDrago said

ppl who pay for this game should be better then you or me

Yep. But, that shouldn't mean we make it easier to bully people.

However, you do seem to have missed the main point of my post. I'm suggesting that we make PvP a little more voluntary than it is now by making localised PvP easy and long-range PvP harder. I don't think anyone - whether they're hellforged or not, money-bags or playing on the cheap - should have an easy time of smacking my character in the Ramdal Caves when they've sitting in the Nomad Stronghold. It makes no sense. If the game was called Fallen Spell and we all played wizards with magical weapons and such - maybe. However, we're not - this is Fallen Sword, which seems incredibly short range to me. As I also mentioned, I don't think you should get any Gold from a successful PvP if you aren't even in the same area (what we got going there at the moment - flying monkey minions who swoop and steal the victim's gold while they're flat out cold on their backsides?).

Costin

#24 fs_narex

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 22:23

I started another thread. Maybe it can be closed and point to this one?

http://forum.fallens...opic.php?t=9242

PvP is unfair to those who do not have as much FSP as others. To that end, I think that either hell forge bonuses should be excluded from PvP or that the level of hell forging be taken into account. What I mean is that if you have 1 item hellforged one time, then it either prevents you from attacking someone who has no items hell forged. Both seem easy enough to code into the game.

#25 fs_borisdrago

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 23:08

amandanjd said

i personally get sick of it for example if i just became lvl 25 and someone attacked me all my lvl requirements for my gears aren't into effect because i am back to lvl 24 kinda sucks bec the monsters there are higher lvl i have to get my older gear back to get my xp back up waste of time and also i think exp gain should be involved with the pvp attacks because for 1 we waste a max of 100 stamina when we only waste like 2 to 5 stamina on monsters rarely losing alot of stamina so this is what i think u can either change it to what ducimus suggested i like his idea or u can leave it with alot of complaints against it..


i agree that it sucks when you drop a lvl and yur gear doesnt work and now any yahoo can kill you but ( it should work worse maybee but not working at all is just plain cruel)
as far as your other point im not sure cause if ppl could gain xp by killing other ppl some wouldnt do anything else
pvp is meant to test your abilities or warn/teach another person a lesson
and even if i attack you for 100 stamina and kill you and hit you for xp and gold unless you lose a lvl you can easily get more xp then you lost by spending the 100 stamina so unless you have several people constantly gunning for you you dont have much to lose just time cause you will eventually outlevel them

#26 fs_borisdrago

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 00:12

Costin said

BorisDrago said

As far as your guildies are concerned you are high enough level to protect them / get their gold back / or simply send them 1k-2k gold they need to recoup their losses till they get on their feet.


You seem to be playing the game for a different reason that I. I play for fun. If my 5th level culty gets slapped by a 7th level bully, I can't exactly step in, can I? What would be the point of me PvPing someone who's 20+ levels beneath me? --- that would be just more bullying. I don't gain anything -- they get angry --- they attack someone else. Ever increasing circles of pointless violence follow.


>>>>>first of all read the entire statement you do not have to attack anyone if you dont want to you can be piecfull if you want and just replace the gold (turn the other cheek ), you can politely ask for gold back (negotiate), you can hire someone or ask someone lower lvl say 9 to go beat up the lvl 7 bully
second a higher lvl attacking someone lower can take money that is it
why is this a problem? how much gold does your lvl 5 have on him that this becomes a problem? as a lvl 30 i try not to carry above 10k gold on me and i can take care of myself for the most part , plus even with 10k an attack for 10 stamina will take 300-500 gold not much more then that
and if a lvl 7 attacking a lvl 5 for 100 stamina there is a deeper problem there

and 3rd i play this game for fun just like you do its just that my idea of fun might be different then yours and ppl like you make it less fun for me to play because of all the failsafe rules you trying to apply to protect your precious ingame gold

who is to say that your idea of fun should be implemented and my is not?
<<<<<

Costin said

BorisDrago said

so if you guys dont feel protected enough go buy fsps and forge your armor or dont complain

You lost me. Hellforging costs FSPs. The game is free. You shouldn't need to Hellforge to have any chance to win the game... I wasn't complaining, I was setting forth an issue I'd encountered and some suggestions on how to avoid it.


>>>>>let me extrapolate for you.

a. you cant win the game its impossible
b. the game is free therefore ppl who choose to pay for it should gain sertain advantages
c if people in your guild feel like they being harrased by higher lvls all they need to do is spend $50 or so and get hellforged gear :)
i can guarantee you no one in their right mind unless they have done the same thing is going to attack them and they will be ablle to kill ppl above their lvl pretty easy :)
d. the only ppl that have been able to hurt me concistently by taking my xp are thouse that are lower or same lvl as me but have hellforged gear. and i think if they invested that much time or money into this game they deserve the advantage. all anyone else can do is steal my gold. thats not a big deal and i can make that and more simply by continuing. So what is the problem? you dont like being attacked >? well dont bother ppl like me/ dont carry too much gold / dont annoy ppl with hellforged gear and you will be fine. And get better gear so it takes some effort to kill you.
And if you occasionally get attacked for 10 stamina and lose 300-400 gold and 200 xp just ignore it and save yourself some grief. <<<<<

Costin said

BorisDrago said

ppl who pay for this game should be better then you or me

Yep. But, that shouldn't mean we make it easier to bully people.


>>>>>look at what i just said / its tough to bully a person that will not be bullied
you are higher lvl then me
want to try? the only reason you are getting bullied is cause you allow others to bully you.
plus pvp is most of the time more expencive to the person that inintiates the attack <<<<<<

Costin said

However, you do seem to have missed the main point of my post. I'm suggesting that we make PvP a little more voluntary than it is now by making localised PvP easy and long-range PvP harder. I don't think anyone - whether they're hellforged or not, money-bags or playing on the cheap - should have an easy time of smacking my character in the Ramdal Caves when they've sitting in the Nomad Stronghold. It makes no sense. If the game was called Fallen Spell and we all played wizards with magical weapons and such - maybe. However, we're not - this is Fallen Sword, which seems incredibly short range to me. As I also mentioned, I don't think you should get any Gold from a successful PvP if you aren't even in the same area (what we got going there at the moment - flying monkey minions who swoop and steal the victim's gold while they're flat out cold on their backsides?).

Costin


>>>>>>god i hate when ppl compare a game to real life situations ....
so what you saying is in order for it to be "just like in real life" I have to take a portal to the paladir forest, run down to the ramdal caves killing raptors and elves and cats that live side by side "just like in real life" run around ramdal caves looking for you killing zombies and hellhounds "just like in real life" then when i find you and kill you " just like in real life" i get to take your gold, you might lose some experience and keep doing your thing "just like in real life" ???
Wouldnt you think that even if we take a game (THIS IS JUST A GAME!!!) as a given premise for our conversation about what you can or cannot do in a GAME then wouldnt you say its fair that in order to maitain " real life setting" after i have traveled the world in search of you in order to kill you and have killed you that i could take all of your money, all of your equipment, (cause the body is right there) and you would be dead and would not be able to continue to play this game? "just like in real life"
and there wouldnt be any restrictions on pvp if this was anything like "real life"
so please these are the rules of the game
they not supposed to make sence in real life
and when you design a game you can set your own rules and do what makes sence to you
plus whats a game name have to do with pvp system ?<<<<<

#27 fs_borisdrago

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 00:28

Narex said

I started another thread. Maybe it can be closed and point to this one?

http://forum.fallens...opic.php?t=9242

PvP is unfair to those who do not have as much FSP as others. To that end, I think that either hell forge bonuses should be excluded from PvP or that the level of hell forging be taken into account. What I mean is that if you have 1 item hellforged one time, then it either prevents you from attacking someone who has no items hell forged. Both seem easy enough to code into the game.


1. the game is free therefore ppl who choose to pay for it should gain sertain advantages
2. if people in your feel like they being harrased by higher lvls all they need to do is spend $50 or so and get hellforged gear
i can guarantee you no one in their right mind unless they have done the same thing is going to attack them and they will be ablle to kill ppl above their lvl pretty easy
3.. the only ppl that have been able to hurt me concistently by taking my xp are thouse that are lower or same lvl as me but have hellforged gear. and i think if they invested that much time or money into this game they deserve the advantage. all anyone else can do is steal my gold. thats not a big deal and i can make that and more simply by continuing lvlng. So what is the problem? you dont like being attacked >? well dont bother ppl like me/ dont carry too much gold / dont annoy ppl with hellforged gear and you will be fine. And get better gear so it takes some effort to kill you.
And if you occasionally get attacked for 10 stamina and lose 300-400 gold and 200 xp just ignore it and save yourself some grief.

#28 fs_borisdrago

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 01:15

zeros said

Blackhuang said

When attacker wins he gets gold and PvP rating
but when defender wins he gets only PvP rating...
seems a littile unfair in that case.
Although the attacker cost stamina to attend the attack happen, the defender should gets little more than just PvP rating,maybe some gold.


I totally agree this opinion.

Is that mean If someone buy enought FSPs to hell forge his gear, he can have the right to beat every weaker player easily and without risk?

I would like to say this kind of system is a very bad idea to attract players buying FSP.

because more players under attack everyday may choose to quit this game. (get 1 customer but lose 5 customers)


i agree that anyone that loses combat should have the same penalties whether or not they initiated the attack that will make ppl think twice b4 attacking someone

but i completely disagree with Zeros because paying customers should have advantage that is what they paying for

if you got enough money for mcdonalds dont expect prime rib at your dinner table

plus no one in hellforged gear will try to hurt you for no reason cause they want to compete with other hellforged ppl and they want to progress in lvls and being attacked once or twice does not constitute harasment

#29 fs_narex

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 04:04

BorisDrago said

Narex said

I started another thread. Maybe it can be closed and point to this one?

http://forum.fallens...opic.php?t=9242

PvP is unfair to those who do not have as much FSP as others. To that end, I think that either hell forge bonuses should be excluded from PvP or that the level of hell forging be taken into account. What I mean is that if you have 1 item hellforged one time, then it either prevents you from attacking someone who has no items hell forged. Both seem easy enough to code into the game.


1. the game is free therefore ppl who choose to pay for it should gain sertain advantages
2. if people in your feel like they being harrased by higher lvls all they need to do is spend $50 or so and get hellforged gear
i can guarantee you no one in their right mind unless they have done the same thing is going to attack them and they will be ablle to kill ppl above their lvl pretty easy
3.. the only ppl that have been able to hurt me concistently by taking my xp are thouse that are lower or same lvl as me but have hellforged gear. and i think if they invested that much time or money into this game they deserve the advantage. all anyone else can do is steal my gold. thats not a big deal and i can make that and more simply by continuing lvlng. So what is the problem? you dont like being attacked >? well dont bother ppl like me/ dont carry too much gold / dont upset ppl with hellforged gear and you will be fine. And get better gear so it takes some effort to kill you.
And if you occasionally get attacked for 10 stamina and lose 300-400 gold and 200 xp just ignore it and save yourself some grief.


If it were that, I wouldn't bother posting. I was attacked by someone 4 levels below me. He had 5 fully hell forged items. He used 100 stamina to attack me and I lost 4K experience due to his unfair advantage. I had less than 20K on me and was getting ready to bank onceI finished hunting. I only lost 1 PvP point as this bully had a rating of over 1500. I had done nothing to him to deserve such a hit.

#30 fs_borisdrago

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 04:55

Narex said

If it were that, I wouldn't bother posting. I was attacked by someone 4 levels below me. He had 5 fully hell forged items. He used 100 stamina to attack me and I lost 4K experience due to his unfair advantage. I had less than 20K on me and was getting ready to bank onceI finished hunting. I only lost 1 PvP point as this bully had a rating of over 1500. I had done nothing to him to deserve such a hit.


has this happen more then once?

you are a member of 2nd biggest guild out there?

can no one help you?

#31 fs_costin

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 13:52

Boris... just a quick response.

GOLD: If you read back through my threads, you were the one that got Gold into the conversation. The feedback from people in my Guild has been more to do with the constant pestering of continuous PvPing - not the loss of Gold.

REAL LIFE: I never mentioned real life. I'm saying, this seems to be a game about warriors/adventurers running around killing creatures and completing quests --- not sorcerers slinging spells from high and distant towers. PvP in this game needs to be more personal - and yes, I'm saying if you want unhindered PvP you should have to come and find me. My suggestion allowed for PvP at greater distance, but with modifiers to allow for the distance.

WINNING THE GAME: Good to know someone can take a few words so literally.

FUN: I'm seeking a route to fun for everyone. That requires discussion and compromise. I'm citing details from my experience of talking with others. You do the same. We'll find the solution somewhere in between - but the current PvP system isn't that.

SPENDING $50: Perhaps if spending $50 for immaterial vaporware typed nonsense comes so easily to you, you might lend people some cash. I don't personally understand people who Hellforge, purely because you (a) outgrow gear and (B) will never get that money back no matter how well you balance extracting FSPs from old Hellforged gear, trading, auctioning, swapping, etc.

Thanks for the banter!

Costin

#32 fs_borisdrago

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 16:23

[quote name="Costin"]Boris... just a quick response.
GOLD: If you read back through my threads, you were the one that got Gold into the conversation. The feedback from people in my Guild has been more to do with the constant pestering of continuous PvPing - not the loss of Gold.[/quote]

well what is the problem the only problem a lower lvl can have with higher lvl attacking him is their gold being stolen unless the ppl complaining about reading defeat msgs? and loss of pvp rating? is it bad for their self esteem? i dont understand what could be a bother?

[quote]REAL LIFE: I never mentioned real life. I'm saying, this seems to be a game about warriors/adventurers running around killing creatures and completing quests --- not sorcerers slinging spells from high and distant towers. PvP in this game needs to be more personal - and yes, I'm saying if you want unhindered PvP you should have to come and find me. My suggestion allowed for PvP at greater distance, but with modifiers to allow for the distance.[/quote]

but why is it what you decided to think about the game based on limited infromation you have should matter? Maybee you shouldnt take the the words so literaly yourself?? :)

[quote]WINNING THE GAME: Good to know someone can take a few words so literally.[/quote]

see above

[quote]FUN: I'm seeking a route to fun for everyone. That requires discussion and compromise. I'm citing details from my experience of talking with others. You do the same. We'll find the solution somewhere in between - but the current PvP system isn't that.[/quote]

i like current pvp system. and im sorry that you cant handle it but i honestly dont see a reason to change it at least not in a way you thinking of changing it

[quote]SPENDING $50: Perhaps if spending $50 for immaterial vaporware typed nonsense comes so easily to you, you might lend people some cash. I don't personally understand people who Hellforge, purely because you (a) outgrow gear and (B) will never get that money back no matter how well you balance extracting FSPs from old Hellforged gear, trading, auctioning, swapping, etc.
[/quote]

I have yet to spend any money on this game and therefore i feel that untill i do i can only support this game because it provides entertaiment for me for free
[/quote]

#33 fs_costin

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 18:25

:roll:

Best to leave this discussion here... cause you're not discussing.

Costin

#34 fs_narex

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 16:32

BorisDrago said

Narex said



If it were that, I wouldn't bother posting. I was attacked by someone 4 levels below me. He had 5 fully hell forged items. He used 100 stamina to attack me and I lost 4K experience due to his unfair advantage. I had less than 20K on me and was getting ready to bank onceI finished hunting. I only lost 1 PvP point as this bully had a rating of over 1500. I had done nothing to him to deserve such a hit.


has this happen more then once?

you are a member of 2nd biggest guild out there?

can no one help you?


He's attacked me several times through the levels. Even since the PvP modfication, but the XP lost was around 25% of what I lost in the past. Kudos to hoof for this change. But I still think he shouldn't be able to attack me and force me to lose any XP just because he is mostly fully hell forged.

Yes, I am in the 2nd ranked guild.

Why should I have to rely on others because this person has an unfair advantage over me?

#35 fs_ardasnails

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 21:28

Not read much of the thread, but just reposting what I have mentioned in other threads.

One of the reasons for joining a stronger guild is the protection it offers. Yet because of the strict pvp level ranges, that protection is practically non existant.

If a guilded player is attacked, the attacker should be vulnerable to attacks from any player in that guild for 30 minutes.

Or, if you attack a guilded player, the defender has a chance that a random guildmember will step in to aid him in the fight.

15% chance a guildmember will come to your aid, and 20% of his stats are used in the fight etc

#36 Strykes

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 06:40

Interesting concept Ardas.

Personally , i think xp loss should be removed completely...
I know personally , that the only thing that annoys me about being hit , is that i will lose XP.

If i lose 100 XP , i spose thats ok... but losing 3 - 4K xp from one hit , is just terrible.

Also , i quite like the suggestion of a "guild" defence. (as much as it would hurt me!! haha) however , even if you could hit , Ardas , your hits would do little , or no damage to someone a lot smaller than you.
As it is , if i hit someone 5 levels below me (like the miscreants continually hitting 2 of my members) i do almost no damage to them at all.

20 gold loss , is about it....

So i dont see how you could benefit , even if you were given the window to attack. they would have to allow xp loss from higher players in these situations too. Think about it , i dont mind getting hit 3 - 4 times by bigger players , if i do one hit killing 3K xp from one of your guild members , and all you guys do is steal a little PvP rating , and some gold. It's not really a just retaliation.

#37 fs_ardasnails

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 08:48

I think the xp and gold loss is a good thing. It is a deterrent for players acting like arses, as they get retaliation attacks. The only problem is, due to the pvp restrictions the players acting like arses can get away with it at the moment, which makes PVP seem overpowered and harsh.

#38 Strykes

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 10:03

People are only acting like arses BECAUSE of the gold and xp loss.
If there wasn't such a big gain of gold , or such a big loss of xp , people wouldn't need to act like Arses.

Now that im getting up the levels , i can see that gold gain from creatures etc starts becoming worthwhile. Up until this point , i was convinced that the only way to get "rich" or the guild "rich" was by PvP'ing people.

I was wrong , but i wouldn't have known that. you only have to hit someone once and gain 5K gold from 100xp to get hooked on it.

IF the gains were not that great , people wouldn't be sitting at certain levels just getting gold for FSP and buildings.

But im just a noob , what would i know...

#39 fs_ardasnails

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 12:50

Quote

If there wasn't such a big gain of gold , or such a big loss of xp , people wouldn't need to act like Arses.


I dunno about that, some people really don't need an excuse or reason to act like idiots, they do it because they can.

#40 Strykes

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 07:14

I agree with you again , however , they "can" because they get a huge gain , which in turn annoys whoever they hit.

You're not going to just hit someone , if they really dont give a damn.
If i know im going to lose only like 20 gold per hit , im not even going to worry about it...
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