42 replies to this topic

[creekdiver]

The varience is absolutely necessary. Arena would become extremely stale very quickly as people figured out the "best sets".

[DragonLord]

The varience is absolutely necessary. Arena would become extremely stale very quickly as people figured out the "best sets".

Even though I no longer play the arena, I'd have to agree with that statement.

[avvakum]

The varience is absolutely necessary. Arena would become extremely stale very quickly as people figured out the "best sets".

The "best sets" don't exist... Everything is countered in the arena, and once you are predictable you are dead! The Novice section is where you can beat beginners without changing sets and strategies, but Pro Arena is different, people are changing their sets, combat moves, strategies all the time. The variance isn't needed.

[Windbattle]

the real question is whether anyone bothers with Arena anymore? If you have worked out all the LUCK factors and have played for years ... perhaps it is still worth it.

however for the vast majority of players ... it is a complete waste of time ...

Not sure if you can fix that ....

[Savanc]

The variance is currently +/- 5% for both armor and damage in the PvP Arena.

Hello Hoof,
I can prove that its not +/- 5% using the stats used in the tournament mentioned by Shindrak..

I can prove that it is +/- 5% using the stats used in the tournament mentioned by Shindrak. :roll:

[shindrak]

The varience is absolutely necessary. Arena would become extremely stale very quickly as people figured out the "best sets".

The "best sets" don't exist... Everything is countered in the arena, and once you are predictable you are dead! The Novice section is where you can beat beginners without changing sets and strategies, but Pro Arena is different, people are changing their sets, combat moves, strategies all the time. The variance isn't needed.

+1

I hope hoof remove it or lower it to 1%

[michael65]

Variance allows for "play" or chance to make the tourney more interesting, so please keep it at 5%.

Now for stupid question, did the forge person went to Blacksmith before entering tourney?

Forge has been updated recently, should Forge be updated again?

As to arena fix, how about giving everyone 10,000 hp and let the tourney run? How long? i don't know.

[yodamus]

the 5% as it is..is most definatly needed..as someone else said..arena would become a joke and the same players, same setups would always win, only a few moves are ever used, so that would not change anything....1/2 of the moves are never used. new ones nerfed to non-existince....thus causing many less players to participate..we already need many more players to join in..and as i see it..the only ones complaining cant stand to lose even 1 round..and then blame it on luck...

[shindrak]

the 5% as it is..is most definatly needed..as someone else said..arena would become a joke and the same players, same setups would always win, only a few moves are ever used, so that would not change anything....1/2 of the moves are never used. new ones nerfed to non-existince....thus causing many less players to participate..we already need many more players to join in..and as i see it..the only ones complaining cant stand to lose even 1 round..and then blame it on luck...

Same players still win with best setups variance wont give noobs with weak setup any luck for win

[shindrak]

Bump for Cows ! Forge shouldn't lose against non forge gears... while using same setups... make it worth the gold so players keep sinking some gold forging their gears

[shindrak]

Damn, my mind went crazy seeing that tournament and its explanation. That definitely needs to be fixed. No objections.

For me.. even though I do win a lot in the level areas I enter.. but I'd say the 5% stays as it is. Shin, I think you're exaggerating a little bit on 1%. I mean yea I'll go totally insane if I have a match like something in ur first post... but lets not make that lead to ranting about 5% variance. Like you said... "Same players still win with best setups.. variance wont give noobs with weak setup any luck to win." You're an amazing arena player yourself and you know that well. If they have the luck to beat you it'll be once in a blue moon. If someone beats you often then you know they're actually doing well instead of just luck. 5% variance should be nothing much for us... Forged gears would definitely beat unforged ones even with 5% variance. But if some crazy variance keeps happening like in ur first post (which is obviously more than just 5%) then it definitely needs some fixing.

Don't forget too that after 50 wins people can't join novice arenas anymore then they're forced to play with us. We've been through our beginner stages way before too and some people are going through it right now. I'd say lets be kind a give them some room instead of shutting them off

Yea as i said (Same players still win with best setups.. variance that its 5% or 1% wont give noobs with weak setup any luck to win)
Well problem still up that players lose too much with Forged setups against unforged on same setups...

[michael65]

Yea as i said (Same players still win with best setups.. variance that its 5% or 1% wont give noobs with weak setup any luck to win)
Well problem still up that players lose too much with Forged setups against unforged on same setups...

I get ya on that and it does definitely need some fixing.
I do hope HCS does something about it as well.

So, should there be higher stats for forge items? In other words, should the cows tweak forge at items 750 and above? 900? 1100?

[grimnok]

If you (collectively) are saying that forged vs. unforged gear should always win no matter the level (instead of usually win), then variance would need to be dropped substantially to no more than 3%, maybe lower. Lower variance means perfect gear becomes even more important at low levels. This essentially raises the entry costs to realistically participate at low levels.

[scarsick]

If it's 5% currently (which I doubt)....then it should be lowered down to 2.5%

Variance would still exist, meaning the best set up won't mean a guaranteed win but at the same time, it'd greatly reduce the luck factor

Another thing we need to have a look at is Forging. The cost to forge gears at higher lvls is astronomical while the benefits provided is minimal. Now, many players used to forge gear specifically for arena usage but with the introduction of non forge tournaments, it has taken a blow and now as we're seeing variance can negate the difference between forged and non forged gear.....I think it's time to re-evaluate the formula of stat bonus provided by forging (at the higher lvls)

[michael65]

Remember:
1. nine gear slots - not all are with forged gear
2. gear not fully forge adds small amount to stats
3. what about combinations? ie one player has fully forged ring another a fully forged amulet in otherwise same setup: who should get forge benefit in an arena-only situation?

the op is suggesting the problem is fully forged versus non-forged, but solution can only come by raising fully forged numbers (if only by a small amount). my 2 cents and i may be missing something, so ....? (shrugs)

[grimnok]

Remember:
1. nine gear slots - not all are with forged gear
2. gear not fully forge adds small amount to stats
3. what about combinations? ie one player has fully forged ring another a fully forged amulet in otherwise same setup: who should get forge benefit in an arena-only situation?

the op is suggesting the problem is fully forged versus non-forged, but solution can only come by raising fully forged numbers (if only by a small amount). my 2 cents and i may be missing something, so ....? (shrugs)

The hypothesis is that identical setups, but with one Fully Forged, the FF setup should win more often than it does now. That 'problem' can be solved, by either increasing the forging bonus, particularly at higher levels, OR reducing the 5% variance to something in the range of 2-3%.