47 replies to this topic

[RISDMAC]

So far I haven't heard that many proper reasons from those who voted no. Please send proper answers, I don't want to think that you all are after imbalanced gaming.

Just because you disagree with our opinions doesnt mean that they are not valid counterpoints, that is flawed logic...

To elaborate on my definition of pay to win, other titles within HCS games allow you to purchase xp gain per our so you essentials pay to get free xp, this is a p2w purchase. They also have a purchasable +0.1% xp towards next level sp you can pump unlimited money if you so wish to gain levels though this is expensive... This is also a p2w feature.

Paying for convenience is nothing more than that in my opinion, if I want to buy more sacks so I can gather more in bulk once off rather than running back and forth on multiple treks, it is not paying to win in my opinion, it is paying for the convenience of 1 trek. I understand that some people feel that this convenience allows me to win by your view of the situation, but that is just a difference of opinion over the definition.

[Samppa]

Just because you disagree with our opinions doesnt mean that they are not valid counterpoints, that is flawed logic...

To elaborate on my definition of pay to win, other titles within HCS games allow you to purchase xp gain per our so you essentials pay to get free xp, this is a p2w purchase. They also have a purchasable +0.1% xp towards next level sp you can pump unlimited money if you so wish to gain levels though this is expensive... This is also a p2w feature.

Paying for convenience is nothing more than that in my opinion, if I want to buy more sacks so I can gather more in bulk once off rather than running back and forth on multiple treks, it is not paying to win in my opinion, it is paying for the convenience of 1 trek. I understand that some people feel that this convenience allows me to win by your view of the situation, but that is just a difference of opinion over the definition.

I find myself against small group of people who have been with this game for a while, and probably most of them are members who are subscibed or has been, or has bought something from shop. That is why I am seemingly the underdog here, no doubt. However, I will not be the last to talk about this, especially when the game starts to grow. I am very new player here compared to those who has replied/voted to this topic (checked).

Anyways, as comparison I find exp buying less bad  (if not for crafting), though I wouldn't want that to be part of the game either. Leveling to 40 doesn't seem like much challenge anyways, but this I won't say for certain, though I have played games with much more difficulty in leveling(not talking about crafting).

"Paying for convenience" seems to be common phrase here which I find just convenient coverage for uglier truth.

That paying makes everything possible though, think about it! What you can get for your EP points? Anything.

[awollsd]

ok, i'll start by saying the ONLY money i've spent on this game is for the 60 day subscription for the exp boost....  the bound EP i got with that i spent on repair kits that i gave almost all of away.... not sold gave away.. i haven't spent another dime...

 

i am currently sitting on well almost 2k gold and i work on 0 proffessions so i'm not selling mats or anything i get this totaly from selling gears that drop..... and you know the funny thing? i spend MOST of my time sitting at the fountain in eldevin square i could easily be having 4k+ gold if i played even half as much as i'm online....

 

can you do this at lower levels? no..  does that make the game pay to win? deffenently NO even at lower levels with work you can get anything they EP buyers can get you simply have to work harder that means the game is PAY FOR CONVENIENCE not pay to win there is a BIG difference between the 2...

 

 

now one point i would make is the rediculous prices ppl are selling EP for... they have driven the  market up incredibly high out of greed.... yes it is verry easy to make gold so gold has fairly low value... but 1st off lower lvl players cant get the gold that easily so by driving the EP to gold ratio up so high your alienating a large portion of the population  and 2nd if gold is that easy to get then why do you NEED to sell at such high ratios? just to stock pile 10k+ gold??? stop the greed balance the ratios and apeal to the larger community

 

but yeah as far as the game itself goes there is NO pay to win in it.. its laughable each time someone cries "P2W" so you're having a hard time getting something specific as a free player and the paying player gets it easier you  can still get it you just have to work harder as the free player which is exactly as it should be.

[Mongo]

I find myself against small group of people who have been with this game for a while, and probably most of them are members who are subscibed or has been, or has bought something from shop. That is why I am seemingly the underdog here, no doubt. However, I will not be the last to talk about this, especially when the game starts to grow. I am very new player here compared to those who has replied/voted to this topic (checked).

Anyways, as comparison I find exp buying less bad  (if not for crafting), though I wouldn't want that to be part of the game either. Leveling to 40 doesn't seem like much challenge anyways, but this I won't say for certain, though I have played games with much more difficulty in leveling(not talking about crafting).

"Paying for convenience" seems to be common phrase here which I find just convenient coverage for uglier truth.

That paying makes everything possible though, think about it! What you can get for your EP points? Anything.

 

So because players have been here a while, are members or bought something from the shop there opinion is not wanted?

 

I got 12.5k EP in my Founder Pack, that was spent within 2 days on shop stuff for myself and friends. I have not purchased any EP since, with real money. Everything I have now, I have made through game play and trade.

 

Can you now stop with the assumption that we all have money falling out of our butts to spend on games, just because we do not agree with you?

 

Apart from my subscription I have been FREE TO PLAY player since day 3! 

[Samppa]

You can't call yourself free player if you have subscription, it comes with monthly EP, and increases monthly if you are long-term member.

 

If someone says there is no P2W and means it, then I am god itself, geez. You've got to stop using silly phrases and words to hide it. Its like you guys think that you have your own definition here that doesn't exist, but it does. It is P2W, you stubborns.

 

Once Eldevin grows up, the amount of F2P players will raise to be greater than those who are not, leading to dropping of gold value and increment of EP value. Also, spawn/farm spots will be crowded and the pepole who will suffer most are: F2P players. But, that may be alright with you guys, so don't worry.

 

Anyways, I have said everything I wanted. Things just keep repeating now. I will keep my eye on this topic though, since I'm not satisfied yet.

Edited by Samppa, 05 February 2014 - 18:20.

[Leofin]

I think we have all been "struyked".  

[Kijjum]

I kinda think the point of putting in hours and money into making a video game is to make money back. Not sure if they just like making video games for free or not.

[Shylark57]

Sorry but really nothing here is Pay 2 Win.. What is it some one is winning by getting things from the Shop???  Even though I have sold sacks and gotten gold for them..... Every game I have played and I have played a lot has a Shop / Store.. The main difference with them is 98% of the Shop / Store Items are bound to account or player... Now as a community we can maybe try to get some things at a fixed price... So it can be fair to all but I really don't see that ever happening.....

[Shylark57]

You can't call yourself free player if you have subscription, it comes with monthly EP, and increases monthly if you are long-term member.

 

If someone says there is no P2W and means it, then I am god itself, geez. You've got to stop using silly phrases and words to hide it. Its like you guys think that you have your own definition here that doesn't exist, but it does. It is P2W, you stubborns.

 

Once Eldevin grows up, the amount of F2P players will raise to be greater than those who are not, leading to dropping of gold value and increment of EP value. Also, spawn/farm spots will be crowded and the pepole who will suffer most are: F2P players. But, that may be alright with you guys, so don't worry.

 

Anyways, I have said everything I wanted. Things just keep repeating now. I will keep my eye on this topic though, since I'm not satisfied yet.

If you buy $5.00 of EP from the shop you are not Free 2 Play.. But also you are not Pay 2 Win... HCS wins if players spend money on the game.. There has not been a game out that I know of that stayed around long with no one spending some money... But every game I have played this Debate comes up... But we can look at this another way... Some people go out to eat or the movies.. Some may Smoke or use tobacco products.. It is all ones choice of entertainment how they spend their money... But in the end none of it is the User paying 2 win...

 

I think maybe you should go look up F2P P2W you may be in for a shock.. Because reading this you really have no Clue what the terms mean at all....

Edited by Shylark57, 05 February 2014 - 23:02.

[awollsd]

You can't call yourself free player if you have subscription, it comes with monthly EP, and increases monthly if you are long-term member.

 

If someone says there is no P2W and means it, then I am god itself, geez. You've got to stop using silly phrases and words to hide it. Its like you guys think that you have your own definition here that doesn't exist, but it does. It is P2W, you stubborns.

 

Once Eldevin grows up, the amount of F2P players will raise to be greater than those who are not, leading to dropping of gold value and increment of EP value. Also, spawn/farm spots will be crowded and the pepole who will suffer most are: F2P players. But, that may be alright with you guys, so don't worry.

 

Anyways, I have said everything I wanted. Things just keep repeating now. I will keep my eye on this topic though, since I'm not satisfied yet.

dude your crazy...

 

Pay to WIN = people who spend money have an unfair advantage and strength that free players can not get. in short a free player can never compete with a payed player so the paid player indeed paid to win (be the strongest)

 

Pay for convenience = a paying player can pay to achieve goals easier or faster but a free player can work harder and/or longer to achieve those same goal 

 

so tell me what here in eldevin can you as a free player not get that a paid player can and it gives him any advantage what so ever? the founders horn? omg he's going to be able to pwn in pvp with that thing!!!  the founders pet? yeah that makes him a better crafter.....

 

oh i forgot bags.... wich can be baught for 30-40g by free players from others... or you can just manage your invatory and bank space do a little extra walking and still reach lvl 40 just as the paid player did but with a bit more work....

 

hhmm idk not seeing anything they are paying to win.. not seeing any unfair advantage that cant be gotten or allows them to acheive something a free player cant.... perhaps i'm just ignorant  can you please show someone doing/getting something a free player CAN NOT get or achieve?

Edited by awollsd, 05 February 2014 - 23:07.

[Samppa]

You guys have been blinded by something, nowhere else would this considered anything but P2W, unless you can't understand the meaning of this word.

Like I keep saying, I am fully aware that free player can achieve currently anything what buyer can, except membership.

 

Also if you are so desperate to defend the EP Selling system that you would even refer to something like: "Somewhere the money's gotta come, I am just helping HCS".

 

Seriously?! Are you thinking about helping HCS when you sell those EPs to get "advantages". I hardly doubt, it is just your lazy ass who decided to buy those EPs and sell them, that you could fly through obstacles that others have work harder on. <-- already P2W, you pay to win through what other work harder for. If you think buying combat items/exp is only P2W, then you are mistaken, because you could use the currency to do exactly the same result now.
 

Please read earlier posts before posting, its really ignorant just to read first post and post then.

-- Lets imagine a possible scenario, in current state of the game

 

Note: This isn't what happens in every case, but its possible as the game allows this to happen if wanted so. Numbers are somewhat "estimated" to be optimal, with no slacking between.

Time Spent: 0 hours

FreePlayer - Starts playing the game, questing, trying things
BuyerPlayer - Starts playing the game, questing, trying things

 

Time Spent: 4 hours

FreePlayer - Faces several obstacles, like lack of space in inventory, lack of gold and decides to do something about it
BuyerPlayer - Faces same problems, but decides to buy EP and/or/also subscribe to membership

 

Time Spent: 8 Hours

FreePlayer - Tries to mine, but soon realizes that he has to mine tons of ore just to get 1 sack and what pain is getting those ores with no sack.

BuyerPlayer - Buys about 10 sacks, exp potions, sells 1K EP to 1K Gold and keeps rolling the game

 

Time Spent: 15-20 Hours

FreePlayer - After pondering with the problem for a while, trying different solutions to get gold and asking help, finally gets his first sack and is at level 10 - 15
BuyerPlayer - Already proceeding at level 20-30 and no trouble with gold, space or anything

 

Time Spent: 30-40 Hours

 

FreePlayer - Starts questing again but faces skill cost that troubles him a bit at lvl 25. 100g. But, goes to mine for few hours to get the skill.
BuyerPlayer - Proceeding at 25-35, nearing the max lvl of this game. Keeps selling EP, buying crafting materials and stuff he needs. Everything is on the silver platter for him.

 

Time Spent: 50 - 60 Hours

 

FreePlayer - Keeps leveling up and has to go to town more often to bring stuff in his bank, especially if he is crafter. With 1 or 2 sacks it ain't so easy at first! Though it might already be so that his bank is full and he needs stop leveling and starts using them, though there isn't much to use. This guy is probably around 25-30lvl or less.
BuyerPlayer - Because this guy has been allowed to focus on his leveling only and has exp potions + membership, he may already be at 40lvl and concentrating to buy crafting materials to boost his crafting to 40lvl. Buys his 40lvl skill easily, 500 gold, no problem

 

Time Spent: 70 - 80 Hours

 

FreePlayer - Keeps leveling up and things are starting to get much easier, we might even own some EPs and few sacks at this point. He is around 30-35lvl.
BuyerPlayer - Has been enjoying his 40 level character for a while, fooling around with some vanity items, boasting on global chat and buying crafting materials + exchanging ep to gold and doing dungeons!

Time Spent: 90 - 100 Hours

 

FreePlayer - Might be leveling, but also might have gotten into his first 40lvl dungeons. Has also wasted his all gold to buy 40lvl skill. Totally broke now.
BuyerPlayer - Still enjoying his 40 level character, and has gotten few set items and there is hardly much "important" to do anymore, end-gaming wise. Keeps boosting his crafting to 40lvl with the power of $$.

 

The gap between FreePlayer and BuyerPlayer will remain unless either side slacks. Though BuyerPlayer can afford to slack much more. In future once there is more content and population, the power to buy things will become more distinct, because of few reasons:

* Things will be harder to get due to higher difficulty/levels (ex. 50lvl Cap) = More things where FreePlayer will be behind BuyerPlayer
* Hunting/Farming/Crafting spots are crowded and first and most to suffer is: FreePlayer

* Value of gold might drop, leading to problem where you would have to farm/hunt even more to close the economical cap between FreePlayer and BuyerPlayer.

* EP will become more dominant currency than it is now and guess who has the most?

 

Of course, these are my assumptions. But, in reality they could happen, and even now the gap is there so why don't make it smaller? I just don't understand why would anyone not want that.

Edited by Samppa, 06 February 2014 - 07:35.

[Honza]

No from me. This seems to be more a crusade than constructive discussion. Thanks to that all points that could have been taken into consideration and discussed will just vaporize in emotions.

[Samppa]

No from me. This seems to be more a crusade than constructive discussion. Thanks to that all points that could have been taken into consideration and discussed will just vaporize in emotions.

You are probably right, I just don't understand why would anyone want imbalanced gaming.

OT:

Anyways, I have now decided to let the votes do the job. I'm done and I appreciate everyone who took their time to read my "crusade" as Honza said, but I hope something caught your mind and perhaps there will be time in future when F2P will receive some love. Thanks for reading/replying and I apologize if I was rude against someone. Not intended. ;P

Edited by Samppa, 06 February 2014 - 07:59.

[ernzor]

the only point I like is five, and I'm f2p 

You miss your supporter buff though medi, lol.

[Lucid]

No

[TheLegend]

This is ridiculous. I've grinded out over 1000 gold easily from prospecting and bought enough sacks and ep to rival any pay-to-play person. I have enough to do all other skills and love having two currencies to trade with. Don't pretend like EP is only for people who pay, I've earned plenty of EP and the only reason is BECAUSE it is tradable. If you're asking for all EP to become bound, that would create an even bigger "p2w" issue. 

 

Then there comes the little problem of having to tell the hundreds of generous players who have paid for EP that, actually, its no longer tradable and what you paid for isn't exactly what you're getting anymore. Its completely immoral and unfair to those kind players who support the game and pay money FOR free-to-play players like you and I to be able to enjoy the game for free at all. 

 

The other problem I have with this is that some free-to-play players think that since they've made an account and have played the game, they have the right to equal opportunities. Why do you have this idea that you're entitled to so much? You've provided literally nothing and you actually don't have, nor should you have any rights or entitlements. I'm personally extremely grateful that there is so much for me to do and hardly any limitations to me as a free player. You don't often see such a huge amount of opportunity for free-to-play players in other games. 

 

The other thing is, of course there are huge benefits to paying! Eldevin is a business, not a charity for your personal enjoyment. If you pay, you will be rewarded. Why should paying become less rewarded? In the eyes of Hunted Cow, a free player is nothing more than a potential paying-player. And a paying player is the only thing that is keeping this game and their company alive and prospering. Life-long free player's do nothing for them. Therefore, it is extremely important to keep the paying customers happy and getting fair rewards, and also important to make sure the potential-paying-players do not remain "potential-paying-players' for life. They must eventually contribute to the game as much as the game has contributed to their own enjoyment for free up to this point.

 

Already, Eldevin supports the free player as much as needed, otherwise you wouldn't even have gotten this far in the game to be making forum posts and preaching what rights you think you have as a free-to-play moocher. It would be completely immoral and unfair to EP-owners to suddenly change Eldevin points to bound.

 

If you truly enjoy this game, rather than asking to be given supporter benefits for free, you should just support the game. You might even positively contribute to Eldevin's growth as a game rather than enjoying everyone else's contributions for free and then crying about it.

Edited by TheLegend, 06 February 2014 - 12:56.

[Shylark57]

You guys have been blinded by something, nowhere else would this considered anything but P2W, unless you can't understand the meaning of this word.

Like I keep saying, I am fully aware that free player can achieve currently anything what buyer can, except membership.

 

Also if you are so desperate to defend the EP Selling system that you would even refer to something like: "Somewhere the money's gotta come, I am just helping HCS".

 

Seriously?! Are you thinking about helping HCS when you sell those EPs to get "advantages". I hardly doubt, it is just your lazy ass who decided to buy those EPs and sell them, that you could fly through obstacles that others have work harder on. <-- already P2W, you pay to win through what other work harder for. If you think buying combat items/exp is only P2W, then you are mistaken, because you could use the currency to do exactly the same result now.
 

Please read earlier posts before posting, its really ignorant just to read first post and post then.

-- Lets imagine a possible scenario, in current state of the game

 

Note: This isn't what happens in every case, but its possible as the game allows this to happen if wanted so. Numbers are somewhat "estimated" to be optimal, with no slacking between.

Time Spent: 0 hours

FreePlayer - Starts playing the game, questing, trying things
BuyerPlayer - Starts playing the game, questing, trying things

 

Time Spent: 4 hours

FreePlayer - Faces several obstacles, like lack of space in inventory, lack of gold and decides to do something about it
BuyerPlayer - Faces same problems, but decides to buy EP and/or/also subscribe to membership

 

Time Spent: 8 Hours

FreePlayer - Tries to mine, but soon realizes that he has to mine tons of ore just to get 1 sack and what pain is getting those ores with no sack.

BuyerPlayer - Buys about 10 sacks, exp potions, sells 1K EP to 1K Gold and keeps rolling the game

 

Time Spent: 15-20 Hours

FreePlayer - After pondering with the problem for a while, trying different solutions to get gold and asking help, finally gets his first sack and is at level 10 - 15
BuyerPlayer - Already proceeding at level 20-30 and no trouble with gold, space or anything

 

Time Spent: 30-40 Hours

 

FreePlayer - Starts questing again but faces skill cost that troubles him a bit at lvl 25. 100g. But, goes to mine for few hours to get the skill.
BuyerPlayer - Proceeding at 25-35, nearing the max lvl of this game. Keeps selling EP, buying crafting materials and stuff he needs. Everything is on the silver platter for him.

 

Time Spent: 50 - 60 Hours

 

FreePlayer - Keeps leveling up and has to go to town more often to bring stuff in his bank, especially if he is crafter. With 1 or 2 sacks it ain't so easy at first! Though it might already be so that his bank is full and he needs stop leveling and starts using them, though there isn't much to use. This guy is probably around 25-30lvl or less.
BuyerPlayer - Because this guy has been allowed to focus on his leveling only and has exp potions + membership, he may already be at 40lvl and concentrating to buy crafting materials to boost his crafting to 40lvl. Buys his 40lvl skill easily, 500 gold, no problem

 

Time Spent: 70 - 80 Hours

 

FreePlayer - Keeps leveling up and things are starting to get much easier, we might even own some EPs and few sacks at this point. He is around 30-35lvl.
BuyerPlayer - Has been enjoying his 40 level character for a while, fooling around with some vanity items, boasting on global chat and buying crafting materials + exchanging ep to gold and doing dungeons!

Time Spent: 90 - 100 Hours

 

FreePlayer - Might be leveling, but also might have gotten into his first 40lvl dungeons. Has also wasted his all gold to buy 40lvl skill. Totally broke now.
BuyerPlayer - Still enjoying his 40 level character, and has gotten few set items and there is hardly much "important" to do anymore, end-gaming wise. Keeps boosting his crafting to 40lvl with the power of $$.

 

The gap between FreePlayer and BuyerPlayer will remain unless either side slacks. Though BuyerPlayer can afford to slack much more. In future once there is more content and population, the power to buy things will become more distinct, because of few reasons:

* Things will be harder to get due to higher difficulty/levels (ex. 50lvl Cap) = More things where FreePlayer will be behind BuyerPlayer
* Hunting/Farming/Crafting spots are crowded and first and most to suffer is: FreePlayer

* Value of gold might drop, leading to problem where you would have to farm/hunt even more to close the economical cap between FreePlayer and BuyerPlayer.

* EP will become more dominant currency than it is now and guess who has the most?

 

Of course, these are my assumptions. But, in reality they could happen, and even now the gap is there so why don't make it smaller? I just don't understand why would anyone not want that.

THERE IS NOTHING PAY 2 WIN... AND THESE LAZY ASSES YOU SPEAK OF BUY EP TO SUPPORT THE GAME 

That makes it so FREE 2 PLAY PEOPLE LIKE YOU CAN PLAY.....

 

NOW GET OFF THE BOX AND STOP YAPPING......... 

 

ALSO IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PRICE SOME ONE SELLS SOME THING AT 

DO NOT BUY IT..

TALKING CRAP ABOUT THOSE THE CHOOSE TO SUPPORT THE GAME WON'T WIN YOU ANY SUPPORT.....

Edited by Shylark57, 06 February 2014 - 13:10.

[Samppa]

Shylark, please read the whole topic next time and try to understand what is written there.. Its frustrating to deal with you, because it leads nowhere and builds nothing constructive. (I have bought from shop for around 20$ (sacks and bag), its written there). Ain't going to reply to your stuff anymore.

I'm getting tired of this community. There are so many thickheaded people that do not wish for fair gameplay.

 

@TheLegend

Same to you, you did not read everything and kept repeating same things that was already said. And I'm sorry for preaching that much, but you are doing the same now. ;P I was kind of angry because I wasn't getting through this thickwall that is unfortunately present in here.

 

So, you grinded 1K Gold for days and the dude next to you got that same amount or 5x more within 5 minutes. Yeah, thats fine, because they support the game.. lol.

If these changes were to go through, of course it would raise objection from P2W players, who would want to lose their ez mode..?

Edited by Samppa, 06 February 2014 - 14:02.

[Shylark57]

Shylark, please read the whole topic next time and try to understand what is written there.. Its frustrating to deal with you, because it leads nowhere and builds nothing constructive. (I have bought from shop for around 20$ (sacks and bag), its written there). Ain't going to reply to your stuff anymore.

I read your All of your crying...  And every time it gets even more Funny..  Have Fun I'm done with you and your crying.....

Edited by Shylark57, 06 February 2014 - 13:48.

[Mongo]

The poll has spoken, for now. No point arguing about stuff guys.