137 replies to this topic

[Bildor]

A major reason for this is that many of those who push PVP insist that it has to be inflicted on everyone, whether they like it or not. Most of the non-PVPers I have heard from (and I suspect that includes as many farmers and merchants as levellers, byt the way) would be happy for anything to happen with PVP provided they were allowed to opt out of it. But if one is going to insist that everyone should have to suffer one's own favourite aspect of the game - even if others absolutely hate that aspect - then is it a surprise that the opponents will take an extreme position to avoid it?

 

 

The thing that has always struck me as puzzling about the PVP debates is that the "I want to get my enjoyment from thumping you, whether you like it or not" is so often portrayed as the unselfiish position.

Well said +1

[rowbeth]

In my opinion, everyone is playing PvP.  Even if they don't attack they do.  Everything else is part of the game: hunting, titan hunting, farming, inventing, etc. So, why is PvP not part of the game?

 

Everything else is a voluntary part of the game. I don't have to farm if I don't want to. I don't have to level if I don't want to. I don't have to hunt titans if I don't want to. So I think the question is "why is PVP different"? Why do I *have* to be PVPd even if I don't want to be?

 

The one thing that is clear from many past PVP threads is that there are extreme and diametrically opposed positions on PVP. Many have left the game because they can't avoid it. Many have left the game because they can't indulge in it.

 

I would reiterate what some have said in past threads: the FS community is too small now to disenfranchise any bit of it. I would love to see PVP changed in a way that gives PVPers more fun; but that has to be done in a way that doesn't detract from the fun of those who really dislike PVP.

[Davros81]

I think some are simply missing the point, or maybe I have..? Many folk have no interest in conducting personal wars and attacks on fellow players. These folk wish to grow their characters in the game, this maybe in the form of increasing their level, achieving more medals or just seeing how much bank they can accrue. People need to understand that pvp does not really help achieve the majority of these goals if any bar the bounty medal and smasher I guess. Tbh I did not even realise pvp was a part of the game until I was level 650 or so after about a year or so into playing this game.

[Bleltch]

I think some are simply missing the point, or maybe I have..? Many folk have no interest in conducting personal wars and attacks on fellow players. These folk wish to grow their characters in the game, this maybe in the form of increasing their level, achieving more medals or just seeing how much bank they can accrue. People need to understand that pvp does not really help achieve the majority of these goals if any bar the bounty medal and smasher I guess. Tbh I did not even realise pvp was a part of the game until I was level 650 or so after about a year or so into playing this game.

And that's the biggest problem with pvp in this game. I keep saying the developers need to make pvp more a more desirable aspect of the game. Their changes pretty much do nothing but deter pvp even more. I've pretty much given up fighting for it as it seems like they are slowly phasing it out of the game. What can you do?

[BraveKath]

Fair points...

The key though is if you want people to try something, but folks are afraid of the risk, eliminate the risk for just one event and see how it goes... say even 5% of the population get addicted to the play style, you've had a big success. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here...

 

AS you point out, any update favored by the majority I am all for... if I'm in the minority for this "radical" idea, then so be it... let the good times roll.

 

Why do you keep asking for "safe" PvP, when repeatedly that has been answered by many?  .... GvG.  Try it, you might like it.  IT IS PVP with no risk to xp or gold.  There is no need to invent a wheel that exists in the game already.

Edited by BraveKath, 29 March 2014 - 08:41.

[yotwehc]

Why do you keep asking for "safe" PvP, when repeatedly that has been answered by many?  .... GvG.  Try it, you might like it.  IT IS PVP with no risk to xp or gold.  There is no need to invent a wheel that exists in the game already.

It was just a suggestion made by others and I thought it was good. Like I said, if you even picked up a percentage of new players playing the aspect, I think it's a win... don't have to do it... merely a suggestion... I thought that was what these forums was for. IF I've said it before, it's because I have the memory of a gold fish and ADHD of a 3 year ol... what was that? oooh sparkles...

[Crzy]

Here's a crazy idea for you all; how about we remove the ladders and make a new "king of the hill" system? Mix the arena with the old school pvp ladder. All ranges listed on one ladder to start the week and make it so all pvp hits give rating again. Here is the kicker though, at the end of the week whoever is in the top position determines next weeks equipment range.

Ex: level 400 player gets 1st place during the first week that means next weeks ladder has an equipment limit for everyone that opted in. No one can use gear above 400 so all fields have to play in the "kings" range.

You could even tie in a reward for the person in 1st place like 50% more rating/gold on successful hits. If someone beats the king 3 times then they "steal" the reward and will sort of be the new target of everyone. This will create an even playing field for all ranges, pvp gear will be valuable which will make the legendary events in high demand again, Stamina and gold will be sunk on bounties, the bb will be lively, and have a top rated list so people can have pride in holding the king tile for x days.

Edit to stop potential kill trading like the old ladder had, maybe put a check in place so that if targets gear is under x amount of levels then They get 0 rating. People with 9 epics only give 50% rating that way it's not a race to see who can farm the most bunnies as chew toy called them.

Edited by Crzy, 29 March 2014 - 10:06.

[yotwehc]

Here's a crazy idea for you all; how about we remove the ladders and make a new "king of the hill" system? Mix the arena with the old school pvp ladder. All ranges listed on one ladder to start the week and make it so all pvp hits give rating again. Here is the kicker though, at the end of the week whoever is in the top position determines next weeks equipment range.

Ex: level 400 player gets 1st place during the first week that means next weeks ladder has an equipment limit for everyone that opted in. No one can use gear above 400 so all fields have to play in the "kings" range.

You could even tie in a reward for the person in 1st place like 50% more rating/gold on successful hits. If someone beats the king 3 times then they "steal" the reward and will sort of be the new target of everyone. This will create an even playing field for all ranges, pvp gear will be valuable which will make the legendary events in high demand again, Stamina and gold will be sunk on bounties, the bb will be lively, and have a top rated list so people can have pride in holding the king tile for x days.

Edit to stop potential kill trading like the old ladder had, maybe put a check in place so that if targets gear is under x amount of levels then They get 0 rating. People with 9 epics only give 50% rating that way it's not a race to see who can farm the most bunnies as chew toy called them.

Although I would love to take credit for coining the word, alas, I am not bright enough for such a genius term... The earliest sighting of this term came in a 9/2011 post by Kalish. (That I could find at least...)

I would argue epics should not matter. What should matter is the skill level of the bunny. Does pvp rating mean anything? If it did then reward more points to whomever can kill the biggest baddest pvpr. That would be an epic bloodbath and true king of the hill.

Edited by yotwehc, 29 March 2014 - 10:41.

[DomCorvis]

ok...WOW....um...

 

PvP is a part of the game...has been since day 1. That doesn't make this a PVP only game. There are tons of other aspects of the game to play!

 

BUT it is a unique game that does allow PvP and allows us to basically police ourselves.(this can be abused as ANY aspect can...the champion farming at EOC for guild xp is an example, titan scripting etc). HCS has given us fair grounds to return fire in pvp if someone has offended us. They've offered us a chance to punish offenders by placing them on a Bounty Board that allows others to extract punishment for you. And it doesnt have to be something PvP that offends you. Someone stole your SE? Someone snatches a chest from under you while you get your key from loyalty? then you can PvP them or find them on BB and handle your business.

 

As far as being FORCED into PvP? nobody is forced into it. So you were hit in PvP? chances are you had too much gold on hand OR you've opened your mouth and inserted foot and now are paying for it. There are options in place to protect your XP AND your gold(protection,bank deposits,fsp marketplace, etc). I am forced to level if i am deleveled. Forced to level if i want better gear(lets remove all gear lvl requirements so pvp'rs never have to level up <---being a smartalic here)

 

 

To sit and say that players are FORCED into PvP is ridiculous.

 

 

I've played other games where PVP is basically a joke and is only for bragging rights(amazing how few people actually pvp there) and I've played games where PVP is highly damaging(where 1-2 attacks can set back a years worth of leveling/building)....HCS has found a great balance. I feel that more incentives to PvP are needed. Nothing else needs to change.

Edited by DomCorvis, 29 March 2014 - 14:06.

[yotwehc]

As far as being FORCED into PvP? nobody is forced into it. So you were hit in PvP? chances are you had too much gold on hand OR you've opened your mouth and inserted foot and now are paying for it. There are options in place to protect your XP AND your gold(protection,bank deposits,fsp marketplace, etc). I am forced to level if i am deleveled. Forced to level if i want better gear(lets remove all gear lvl requirements so pvp'rs never have to level up <---being a smartalic here)

So what if your not carrying a lot of gold (unless 5 k is considered a lot of gold)? What if you've never said any thing to said player nor to any other player? You get attacked over and over again over the course of several weeks. You post said player and they get soft cleared by a friend. What if your still relatively new and don't really have the funds to buy protection weeks at a time? Seems real fair. Your not forced to pvp as long as you pay. That is true. So players crying about not wanting to pvp, suck it up and pay up! This is a pay not to play game!

[yodamus]

Everything else is a voluntary part of the game. I don't have to farm if I don't want to. I don't have to level if I don't want to. I don't have to hunt titans if I don't want to. So I think the question is "why is PVP different"? Why do I *have* to be PVPd even if I don't want to be?

 

The one thing that is clear from many past PVP threads is that there are extreme and diametrically opposed positions on PVP. Many have left the game because they can't avoid it. Many have left the game because they can't indulge in it.

 

I would reiterate what some have said in past threads: the FS community is too small now to disenfranchise any bit of it. I would love to see PVP changed in a way that gives PVPers more fun; but that has to be done in a way that doesn't detract from the fun of those who really dislike PVP.

+1 could not have said better...pvper's need to understand that this is not solely a pvp gme..pvp is part of the game...forcing it on players is why we have so few left...which has hurt pvp arena, ah, global events and more..we need players to stay  ..forcing players to pvp is not helping that matter..

[duktayp]

 

Windbattle, before this degenerates into a 'copy and paste' of every other PvP thread  that has been started, and gets locked - 

 

use some of the suggestions in your OP and add a poll

[yodamus]

ok...WOW....um...

 

PvP is a part of the game...has been since day 1. That doesn't make this a PVP only game. There are tons of other aspects of the game to play!

 

BUT it is a unique game that does allow PvP and allows us to basically police ourselves.(this can be abused as ANY aspect can...the champion farming at EOC for guild xp is an example, titan scripting etc). HCS has given us fair grounds to return fire in pvp if someone has offended us. They've offered us a chance to punish offenders by placing them on a Bounty Board that allows others to extract punishment for you. And it doesnt have to be something PvP that offends you. Someone stole your SE? Someone snatches a chest from under you while you get your key from loyalty? then you can PvP them or find them on BB and handle your business.

 

As far as being FORCED into PvP? nobody is forced into it. So you were hit in PvP? chances are you had too much gold on hand OR you've opened your mouth and inserted foot and now are paying for it. There are options in place to protect your XP AND your gold(protection,bank deposits,fsp marketplace, etc). I am forced to level if i am deleveled. Forced to level if i want better gear(lets remove all gear lvl requirements so pvp'rs never have to level up <---being a smartalic here)

 

 

To sit and say that players are FORCED into PvP is ridiculous.

 

 

I've played other games where PVP is basically a joke and is only for bragging rights(amazing how few people actually pvp there) and I've played games where PVP is highly damaging(where 1-2 attacks can set back a years worth of leveling/building)....HCS has found a great balance. I feel that more incentives to PvP are needed. Nothing else needs to change.

the bounty board is not a punishment..that is the probelm..90% of the time i have been hit with 100 stam pvp hit..i get a message to put them on the bounty board..if most all pvpers actually want on the bounty board..it is not a punishment..they usually want to be de-leveled so they can easily level up again by staying in same area, therefore gaining more xp for thier guild...

ok...WOW....um...

 

PvP is a part of the game...has been since day 1. That doesn't make this a PVP only game. There are tons of other aspects of the game to play!

 

BUT it is a unique game that does allow PvP and allows us to basically police ourselves.(this can be abused as ANY aspect can...the champion farming at EOC for guild xp is an example, titan scripting etc). HCS has given us fair grounds to return fire in pvp if someone has offended us. They've offered us a chance to punish offenders by placing them on a Bounty Board that allows others to extract punishment for you. And it doesnt have to be something PvP that offends you. Someone stole your SE? Someone snatches a chest from under you while you get your key from loyalty? then you can PvP them or find them on BB and handle your business.

 

As far as being FORCED into PvP? nobody is forced into it. So you were hit in PvP? chances are you had too much gold on hand OR you've opened your mouth and inserted foot and now are paying for it. There are options in place to protect your XP AND your gold(protection,bank deposits,fsp marketplace, etc). I am forced to level if i am deleveled. Forced to level if i want better gear(lets remove all gear lvl requirements so pvp'rs never have to level up <---being a smartalic here)

 

 

To sit and say that players are FORCED into PvP is ridiculous.

 

 

I've played other games where PVP is basically a joke and is only for bragging rights(amazing how few people actually pvp there) and I've played games where PVP is highly damaging(where 1-2 attacks can set back a years worth of leveling/building)....HCS has found a great balance. I feel that more incentives to PvP are needed. Nothing else needs to change.

the bounty board is not a punishment..that is the probelm..90% of the time i have been hit with 100 stam pvp hit..i get a message to put them on the bounty board..if most all pvpers actually want on the bounty board..it is not a punishment..they usually want to be de-leveled so they can easily level up again by staying in same area, therefore gaining more xp for thier guild...

[Melons]

Everything else is a voluntary part of the game. I don't have to farm if I don't want to. I don't have to level if I don't want to. I don't have to hunt titans if I don't want to. So I think the question is "why is PVP different"? Why do I *have* to be PVPd even if I don't want to be?

 

The one thing that is clear from many past PVP threads is that there are extreme and diametrically opposed positions on PVP. Many have left the game because they can't avoid it. Many have left the game because they can't indulge in it.

 

I would reiterate what some have said in past threads: the FS community is too small now to disenfranchise any bit of it. I would love to see PVP changed in a way that gives PVPers more fun; but that has to be done in a way that doesn't detract from the fun of those who really dislike PVP.

Technically you are PvPing right now even if you aren't on ladder.  You are constantly defending against other players who attack you.  That's what I mean.  I never said you have to play the attackers part in PvP, but you are still a target to other players who want to attack you. 

[Melons]

the bounty board is not a punishment..that is the probelm..90% of the time i have been hit with 100 stam pvp hit..i get a message to put them on the bounty board..if most all pvpers actually want on the bounty board..it is not a punishment..they usually want to be de-leveled so they can easily level up again by staying in same area, therefore gaining more xp for thier guild...

the bounty board is not a punishment..that is the probelm..90% of the time i have been hit with 100 stam pvp hit..i get a message to put them on the bounty board..if most all pvpers actually want on the bounty board..it is not a punishment..they usually want to be de-leveled so they can easily level up again by staying in same area, therefore gaining more xp for thier guild...

The BB is a punishment.  When you post someone one on the BB they lose 2x the xp from a regular attack.  No matter if 100stams or 10stam you are losing more xp than you would normally. That sounds like punishment to me.

Edited by Tehmelon, 29 March 2014 - 16:10.

[Ryebred]

+1 could not have said better...pvper's need to understand that this is not solely a pvp gme..pvp is part of the game...forcing it on players is why we have so few left...which has hurt pvp arena, ah, global events and more..we need players to stay  ..forcing players to pvp is not helping that matter..

That is speculation, and an opinion.  I've seen more players depart due to the decline of PvP in game then anything over the past several years.  I can note a decline with every last update that favors ease of leveling, and offers opt out means.  Look at the history of compromises made, and counterbalancing the effects of PvP through consumables - PvP protection; exp events, every hit being made subject to bounty, max exp loss parameters being made on bounty board (at one time there was no limit to loss potential), ladder arrangement (all players were in initially - now opt in), to name a few - and after each a steady decline in population.

 

I agree to disagree

 

The PvP community (if you will) is as much at fault for being willing to compromise in debates that proceeded these most recent ones - that side of thinking was always the one to cave into the notion of compromise - to actually hear what the alternative perspective was complaining about -and accept means of balance to overcome.  I hope the pro-pvp mindset never caves again -sit like stones to suggestions that break promises of the pasts.  The anti - PvP mindset has stubbornly always prevailed - never accepting an alternative perspective to their own exists - believing the ladders we have now are somehow the way it should be...

 

A rock at this point, unwilling to budge any further ~ Rye

Edited by Ryebred, 29 March 2014 - 15:54.

[yotwehc]

The BB is a punishment.  When you post someone one on the BB they lose 4x the xp from a regular attack (If I'm correct).  No matter if 100stams or 10stam you are losing more xp than you would normally. That sounds like punishment to me.

Unless the bounty expires

Or if the attacked never bounties the attacker

Edited by yotwehc, 29 March 2014 - 16:00.

[Melons]

That is speculation, and an opinion.  I've seen more players depart due to the decline of PvP in game then anything over the past several years.  I can note a decline with every last update that favors ease of leveling, and offers opt out means.  Look at the history of compromises made, and counterbalancing the effects of PvP through consumables - PvP protection; exp events, every hit being made subject to bounty, max exp loss parameters being made on bounty board (at one time there was no limit to loss potential), ladder arrangement (all players were in initially - now opt in), to name a few - and after each a steady decline in population.

 

I agree to disagree

 

The PvP community (if you will) is as much at fault for being willing to compromise in debates that proceeded these most recent ones - that side of thinking was always the one to cave into the notion of compromise - to actually hear what the alternative perspective was complaining about -and accept means of balance to overcome.  I hope the pro-pvp mindset never caves again -sit like stones to suggestions that break promises of the pasts.  The anti - PvP mindset has stubbornly always prevailed - never accepting an alternative perspective to their own exists - believing the ladders we have now are somehow the way it should be...

 

A rock at this point, unwilling to budge any further ~ Rye

+1 Couldn't said it better Rye.   These ladders are soild proof of making PvP optional. Hence, that's why I'm against adding any opt-in button.

Edited by Tehmelon, 29 March 2014 - 16:01.

[Melons]

Unless the bounty expires

Or if the attacked never bounties the attacker

Well if that attacked never bounties it's their loss. They have 48h to post it and that's plenty of time.  So, that's no excuse. With the bounty expiring I see 99% of bounties being cleared.  But if people really want to remove the expire time then so be it.  I don't see anything wrong with removing or keeping it there.

[yotwehc]

+1 Couldn't said it better Rye.   These ladders are soild proof of making PvP optional. Hence, that's why I'm against adding any opt-in button.

+1 indeed. A true test of a great pvp players is not based ont he quality of wins but the quantity. It would be ludicrous to think that opt in doesn't work because people don't want to pvp.