89 replies to this topic

[Leos3000]

and when new items are added ?? then what ?? best left as is..it was changed for a reason !

It's not like those new items will be direct win prizes like in the old days... people have plenty of tokens to buy tons of the new prizes when introduced...

New prizes would bring renewed interest, but still no reason to rig token tournaments.

[EpicPiety]

If new items are added those individuals with 1m+ arena tokens yes they exist will sink the price to not being worth it instantly... Profit in the arena is FOREVER DEAD. Alot of people seem to be targetting hurting big guilds here from what i'm reading and that should not be. I should have EQUAL oppurtunity no matter what guild im in. Every guild should be viewed as EQUAL. Sure some guilds will naturally excel and some won't but when its all said and done it is not like other guild don't have the OPPURTUNITY to do the same. It takes alot of work to be successful afterall.

Edited by Intimidation, 16 February 2015 - 15:16.

[BadPenny]

If those with all those tokens, who have been holding them, waiting for something they deem good enough to come along, want to buy out the place, more power to them.  They have put in the work, and waited somewhat patiently for something they feel has value.  As for values rising or dropping, this is how the free enterprise system works, prices on everything fluctuates according to supply and demand.  These things make for a healthy economy.  And the economy in Erildath needs a shot in the arm.  Ladder prizes aren't all that hot....  I say the arena pros  deserve to rule the roost.... they did all the work after all... all that math...

Edited by BadPenny, 16 February 2015 - 15:16.

[EpicPiety]

The arguement keep the 25% rule because the arena will in return become more challenging for MYSELF should be thrown right out of this thread also.

[yodamus]

It's not like those new items will be direct win prizes like in the old days... people have plenty of tokens to buy tons of the new prizes when introduced...

New prizes would bring renewed interest, but still no reason to rig token tournaments.

exactly...so many tokens stashed away..thousand and thousands of them...nothing new they put out will have any value after 30 minutes...unless the cost 5000 tokens each..which is not happening..we need players now...not 6 months to a year from now...could even be longer before new prizes are in for arena...scrap the 25% rule..what are they going to rig ???  nothing left to rig..and interest will last less than 1 week..unless they make it so that there is more to join for all levels,,

[yodamus]

 

intimidation is 100% correct...arena is forever dead for profit....forever dead for wins and fun...cant win if nothing to join...and may be forever dead period..as nobody even checks in on arena anymore...most have left the game

Edited by yodamus, 16 February 2015 - 15:49.

[EpicPiety]

Faze it out 25%-50% then see where that takes us...If the activity becomes efficient with that keep it until its not. This is about increasing arena activity not Big Guild VS Small Guild.

Edited by Intimidation, 16 February 2015 - 15:48.

[yodamus]

fix the 25% rule...we need players

 

Edited by yodamus, 16 February 2015 - 15:49.

[EpicPiety]

Gotta remember the 25% rule was when we had more players and more guilds times have sure changed.

[mary4ever]

Have you played arena in the past? If you had experience with it, you would know that the 25% rule has excisted long before the arena tokens was implemented.

it has been years since I last played the arena

I never said the 25% rule has existed BEFORE or AFTER the arena tokens were implemented !!!

 

seems like you did not understand or read my previous post, especially the bold & underline text that said:

 

the reason was the introduction of NEW prices (= arena tokens) => huge PROFIT to be made !!!

 

most (if not all) who are in favour of changing the 25% rule are "indirectly" admitting that changing / removing the 25% rule will increase the rigging of the arena !!!! (read the many posts above this one)

their reason for changing / removing the 25% rule is to "increase" arena activity regardless of increasing the rigging of the arena !!!!

 

btw some of you guys seem to have forgotten that it was HCS themselves (do not rember if it was hoofmaster or zorg) who said that the 25% rule is to prevent abuse to a certain point !!!

 

with that said I am still for the 25% rule to stay for the benefit of the game

[MrSiggs]

new items in the arena store would generate more activity...why not just do that..instead of raising the 25%..makes more sense..get rid of the items that can be bought through the potion bazaar..increasing the 25% won't benefit many guilds...only the large guilds.. and others will lose out on the chances of getting into arenas...same goes for gxp...gxp should not exceed the 25% of players normal xp..get rid of all the ill gotten gxp..things would be much different and more fair to all the guilds that didn't manipulate it..just like they want to do with arena..put a stop to this kind of abuse..make it fair for all of FS

[EpicPiety]

They somewhat did that and increased activity was for short period when they made arena token based. We need long term not short term. Mary times have changed can't use an arguement that was valid in the past because now a days it just makes no sense.

Edited by Intimidation, 16 February 2015 - 17:39.

[kalish]

The cap was introduced because some arenas had far more lucrative prizes than others. Without the cap, a single guild could monopolize that prize and control the market by flooding that arena as soon as is opened. Cornering the market could be achieved with a minimum of expense and effort because only a small number of arenas were worth winning.

 

With the current token system, and if the cap were removed, the only way a guild could monopolize everything in the arena would be to flood ALL of the tournaments. No single tournament is worth more than any other, so the reason for the cap no longer applies.

[EpicPiety]

Well said +1

[yodamus]

The cap was introduced because some arenas had far more lucrative prizes than others. Without the cap, a single guild could monopolize that prize and control the market by flooding that arena as soon as is opened. Cornering the market could be achieved with a minimum of expense and effort because only a small number of arenas were worth winning.

 

With the current token system, and if the cap were removed, the only way a guild could monopolize everything in the arena would be to flood ALL of the tournaments. No single tournament is worth more than any other, so the reason for the cap no longer applies.

bingo +1 million, with thousands..maybe even millions of tokens being stored up..even if they introduce new prizes (hopefully this year)..they will have no value instantly..nothing to manipulate or monopolize....and if tourneys are filling so fast that some cant get in ( which i seriously doubt would happen)...that would be a good thing..

Edited by yodamus, 16 February 2015 - 20:16.

[WYB]

I am against the removal of the 25% limit, for reason many have already mentioned : abuse. It only takes 8 people to join to start an arena, i can imagine bigger guilds that have hundreds of members to use this as a opportunity to get some wins. They wont necessarily make a profit out of it, but with the 25% cap removed, they can definitely make everyone get the medal easily. You may say who cares about the medal, but hey many of us did work hard to get it back then, if you can get it just like that without using much brain, that's cheating. See it costs about less than 1FSPs for 8 people to join one same arena. Everyone could just be joining a lvl 2000 arena without any gear and make one person wear a weapon and let him win.

Sure the medal or tokkens dont really sound very intresting, but the fact that it IS POSSIBLE and that you CAN and WILL get them just like that without much effort if you wish so is one reason enough not to remove the 25%, even though I wouldnt mind increasing it to 50% as long as it cannot be 100% controlled by one single guild.

 

I think a way to increase more activity would be to get back the gold arenas. I feel like the entry fees are too high especially since you get nothing back. If you win about 1 out of 10 arena, you have probably paid 400k gold and depending on the situation you may have only gained +-32 tokkens which you cant do anything with. I personally would definitely join more arena ( now the number of possible arenas for me to join again is another question ) if I didnt have to pay 400k everytime, only to make a very small gain which will never cover the entry fees. People obviously do stuff to make profits, which is true in everything we do, even in life. If i cant make a profit out of what I have invested, why would I even do it?

 

Obviously adding new items makes it even a better place. What about, making it like the seasonal Titan items, get some prizes in there which you can only get during a specific period of time and switch up every few weeks or months.

But ofc the thing is as many have mentioned already, if new items were to be introduced, the top arena players that have 100k's of tokkens, they could just be purchasing anything they want, even if there were some great items that would cost 5k or 10k tokkens.

I was thinkin about mixing the tokken system with the old system, where gold and prize arenas would appear at random, keep the old prices which can be bought with tokkens where they are and introduce the new items the old fashion where they would be the prize to get when you win the arena. That way everyone can start again with equal chance.

And maybe after year or more, also put those items ( with the exception of the seasonal items ) to the list of items that can be bought with tokkens and bring out new prizes again.

 

Plus to give new players a chance to try out the arena without getting beaten up so badly by the pros, maybe also generate some arenas which only players that have less than 100 wins can join, and more below level 100 arenas with very low entry fees, like 100g - 5k gold, so the newly joined players can play the arena too.

 

And btw why was the tokken system even introduced in first place? Why were gold arenas and item arenas even removed? I remember arenas filling very fast before the tokkens. I was suprised to see the tokken system when i came back to FS after many years of not playing and also obviously that the prizes havent changed for years. Can someone explain this to me please?

Edited by wyb, 16 February 2015 - 23:07.

[kalish]

^I see your point. From my point of view, I have two rebuttals:

 

1) The medal would still cost a decent bit of money, and much more money for higher medals.

 

2) I am in a guild with an arena master (Nago) and trust me, she wouldn't pull any punches even if the entire arena were members of MoM. Every win I would get in that scenario would be well earned.

 

Out of curiosity, would you have a problem with raising the cap to 50%?

[BadPenny]

I have 1 question:  Is there really a guild that has hundreds of players?  Aren't player numbers capped below 200?  (I may be wrong)  And are there any with nothing but arena players?  Are there even hundreds of you that play?   I truly don't understand why this could be an issue, it doesn't seem possible these days.  

[WYB]

^I see your point. From my point of view, I have two rebuttals:

1) The medal would still cost a decent bit of money, and much more money for higher medals.

2) I am in a guild with an arena master (Nago) and trust me, she wouldn't pull any punches even if the entire arena were members of MoM. Every win I would get in that scenario would be well earned.

Out of curiosity, would you have a problem with raising the cap to 50%?

I have 1 question: Is there really a guild that has hundreds of players? Aren't player numbers capped below 200? (I may be wrong) And are there any with nothing but arena players? Are there even hundreds of you that play? I truly don't understand why this could be an issue, it doesn't seem possible these days.

I didnt say she would or that anybody would, but they could and simply the fact that it is possible to do if anyone wishes so can't be right.And to penny, I probably misused the term, what I meant to say was that in a big Guild that has over 100 members, it only takes 8 of them to start an arena. I was talking about how they could abuse it, so they dont necessarily need to be arena players.

[EpicPiety]

It will not make the arena any easier it will still be just as challenging. It will make the medal more fair to obtain guild to guild. It's one of the only things that will help the 24-48 hours to start an arena up. Somehow the activity issue with the arena needs to be addressed and i think this is one of the best ways.

 

1. *monoply*...How the arena is practically a game of chance

 

2. *Abuse*... It wouldn't make sense to abuse like explained in above posts

 

3. *difficulty* The difficulty of the arena wont change whatsoever if anything it might be easier because there will be a bigger sample size of arena players to go against.

Edited by Intimidation, 17 February 2015 - 16:38.