110 replies to this topic

[watagashi]

As far as real world analogies, no one else gains any benefit in 'finishing off' your deer. The guilds clearing titans aren't doing it to be swell people and help the securing guild, they're doing it because they value the TKP they will get.

 

Disappearing titans doesn't solve any actual problems, except to satisfy some false sense of 'fairness' and 'realism'.

yea as far as real world analogies, if you shoot a deer, wound it and let it run off the other guy who finishes it off is the one who gets it

[Removed18058]

Do you not understand, that this would hurt the smaller hunting guilds?

 

The big hunting guilds, with many EOC people can afford to spend near double stamina on titans, particularly, due to cooldown, since hunting opportunities are more limited.

 

Bigger guilds will simply burn through an entire titan, albeit, spending more time and stamina.  This eliminates competition-free TKP cleanup opportunities.  Smaller guilds have less resources to do that.  They either grudgingly waste 1000s of stamina cleaning up beyond 50%, for no additional reward, or risk their entire investment disappear.

 

 

 

i disagree

 

i do know for sure that not a single guild would go past the 50% +1 by a lot

 

next of all if there's 3 frackers around and mom comes the frackers leave instead of fighting and burning their stam so it's not every big guild if it would cost them more stam than neccesarry they will leave

[Removed18058]

not necessarily. If the "5-7 day time scale" was implemented then I suspect securing guilds will still leave the total kill until the day before, so 4-6 days, thus allowing folk who wanted the TKP at least 4 days to get it.

 

My "favourite" suggestion for titans tho was to lower the TKP requirements from their heady heights of 3.4 - 3.75 x the HP of the titan down to 2.5 or even 2.0. That way would get a lot more folk cleaning up I suspect (due to the much easier acquisition of the TKP to get an item). 

 

That, in turn, would clean titans up more quickly and thus allow them to respawn more quickly (the speculation seems to be that an epidemicus, for instance, won't spawn if there's already an injured one in the realms)

 

i'd love to see that if one guild secures and the other cleans it up that they should be able to get the item in one other cleanup after that that would be fair

[WWWolf]

How about have a "Bleed Out" time period that you have a set amount of time to secure a Titan and to clear up any remaining TKP but instead of the secure and TKP going away if it is not finished off, why not leave the #s as is?

 

In other words, if a titan has 1000 starting TKP, Guild A gets 501 kills, Guild B gets 149 kills, and  Guild C gets 50 kills.  At the end of the set period of time, there is still 300 TKP remaining so these points go away.  Guild A still gets the drop and the other 2 guilds still get their bonuses for 2nd and 3rd place.

 

This would keep the time limit from being abused by other guilds intentionally not collecting TKP to keep the larger guilds from getting the secure and as long as the time frame is long enough to give smaller guilds a chance to collect TKP, everyone wins and no extra Epics are being thrown in to the game.

[yotwehc]

not necessarily. If the "5-7 day time scale" was implemented then I suspect securing guilds will still leave the total kill until the day before, so 4-6 days, thus allowing folk who wanted the TKP at least 4 days to get it.

My "favourite" suggestion for titans tho was to lower the TKP requirements from their heady heights of 3.4 - 3.75 x the HP of the titan down to 2.5 or even 2.0. That way would get a lot more folk cleaning up I suspect (due to the much easier acquisition of the TKP to get an item).

That, in turn, would clean titans up more quickly and thus allow them to respawn more quickly (the speculation seems to be that an epidemicus, for instance, won't spawn if there's already an injured one in the realms)

I agree with you but i also think it really isn't a problem. Who wants it cleared quickly more then anyone else? The securing guild so they can get their shiny ASAP. The changes will hurt those with the slower connections who can benefit gladly from picking up the scraps of the securing guild without too much competition. Also the smaller guilds as someone else mentioned would be hurt by making it more competitive for the scraps. I don't see a downside to the current system as it slows the flow of epics and give those who don't have a chance a shot at tkps. Seriously what is the downside of lingering titans? The next big Titan guild can't get a secure right away? Aside from the big guilds who is hurting?

[Grimwald]

At this moment you also have an cooldown because you got enough TKP to buy the item. So, my first suggestion is to remove that. You only get the cooldown if you secure it. Secondly, i would suggest an small multiplier to the number of kills made as soon as he is out for an couple of days AND he is below 50% health.

 

Example.  If he is still out for more then 3 days, every kill will give you 1.1 hit, after 4 days, every kill will count for 1.2hits and so on. This will speed up the cleaning and give more TKP.

[Removed18058]

At this moment you also have an cooldown because you got enough TKP to buy the item. So, my first suggestion is to remove that. You only get the cooldown if you secure it. Secondly, i would suggest an small multiplier to the number of kills made as soon as he is out for an couple of days AND he is below 50% health.

 

Example.  If he is still out for more then 3 days, every kill will give you 1.1 hit, after 4 days, every kill will count for 1.2hits and so on. This will speed up the cleaning and give more TKP.

 

so we stay right beneath the secure so we can keep on killing titans and continuously buy the items? for example a titan spawns 3 times a week like that we can get 2 items a week by becoming first spot?

 

if you buy the item with TKP just put it on CD else people can abuse the system...

 

the easiest solution: make it so the cleaners get the item after 2 clean-ups thus lowering the TKP amount

 

but still why does nobody clean up the titans there's free TKP lying around for every1 to earn it ... it's free fsp and still nobody goes and gets it? sounds awkward ...

[yotwehc]

so we stay right beneath the secure so we can keep on killing titans and continuously buy the items? for example a titan spawns 3 times a week like that we can get 2 items a week by becoming first spot?

 

if you buy the item with TKP just put it on CD else people can abuse the system...

 

the easiest solution: make it so the cleaners get the item after 2 clean-ups thus lowering the TKP amount

 

but still why does nobody clean up the titans there's free TKP lying around for every1 to earn it ... it's free fsp and still nobody goes and gets it? sounds awkward ...

It's economics... funny... no one ever complained about how long the colussus of gurgriss titan sticks around... 

 

It's ROI also... do I clean up? or do I wait for the next spawn and go for the secure. So the idea of giving more tkp's after secured has merit to make the ROI better but I still don't see what the rush is to get titans cleared. If it sits for a week, a month, it just works out... the demand is low, so the supply should remain low. o_O

 

I hope someone smarter then me (99% of FS community) can explain this to me.

[Grimwald]

The matter is rather simple. Look at the current one..

 

Fuvaju 1248/5804.. To secure it you need 2903 kills?  To buy it with TKP you need 10500 kills. Lets assume that someone secured it and it has 2500 kills outstanding.. Then you need to clean up four times, spending almost FOUR times the stamina to get the same item by securing it.  The difference is just too big. I bet that most of the kills are done by people trying to get their medals..

 

But you are right, my solution to remove the CD for those who get the item by getting enoughTKP is flawed, but maybe you could reduce the lenght instead? You still need way more stamina to get enough TKPs then by outright securing it!!

[watagashi]

Pretty clear this has become a thing of one side thinks its great to do half the work and let someone else clean their mess so they can get their reward and the other half that think if a couple guilds want to push a monopoly and secure then they can clean up the rest of the mess too.

 

I suggested it a couple pages back and still think it works, put a time limit on titans and if it doesnt get cleared by the time its up then nobody gets anything.

 

Otherwise lets even it out for all aspects of the game,,,,

The guy with the first 6 hits on a bounty gets the reward even if he quits and lets someone else clear it

 

In a GvG you can do one hit and as long as the other guild didnt do 2 by the time 24 hours is up its a win,, nobody has to finish 50 hits.

 

Level by getting 51% to your next level and sit in realm and let someone else kill the creatures.

 

When you look at it from these perspectives rewarding someone for doing 51% of the kills and waiting for somebody else to clear it seems to be pretty silly.

[WWWolf]

The matter is rather simple. Look at the current one..

 

Fuvaju 1248/5804.. To secure it you need 2903 kills?  To buy it with TKP you need 10500 kills. Lets assume that someone secured it and it has 2500 kills outstanding.. Then you need to clean up four times, spending almost FOUR times the stamina to get the same item by securing it.  The difference is just too big. I bet that most of the kills are done by people trying to get their medals..

 

But you are right, my solution to remove the CD for those who get the item by getting enoughTKP is flawed, but maybe you could reduce the lenght instead? You still need way more stamina to get enough TKPs then by outright securing it!!

Very true but it also makes sense that it would take more stamina to get it via TKP versus a secure since it is more difficult to get a secure due to competition.  Those who put in enough effort to actually secure a titan have every right to the bonus.

 

On the other hand, the apparent lack of interest in guilds getting the remaining TKP suggests that the amount of TKP required for the items is too high to be worth it for most.  Perhaps the required TKP should be closer to double the required kills for a secure than over triple the amount...

[yotwehc]

Pretty clear this has become a thing of one side thinks its great to do half the work and let someone else clean their mess so they can get their reward and the other half that think if a couple guilds want to push a monopoly and secure then they can clean up the rest of the mess too.

I think your looking at things in black and white... There are those that appreciate the clean up without competition. Your concerned about flooding of epics  but conversely you want to "encourage" the securing guild to go clean their own mess up thus making the next spawn come out sooner. If the demand wasn't there and the titan sat for a month, it means no more of that titan spawning for a month... your idea would have the titan killed in a week (or 48 hours) meaning another one could show in the next 3 weeks.

 

This suggested change personally benefits me greatly but I am against it.

[Removed18058]

Pretty clear this has become a thing of one side thinks its great to do half the work and let someone else clean their mess so they can get their reward and the other half that think if a couple guilds want to push a monopoly and secure then they can clean up the rest of the mess too.

 

I suggested it a couple pages back and still think it works, put a time limit on titans and if it doesnt get cleared by the time its up then nobody gets anything.

 

Otherwise lets even it out for all aspects of the game,,,,

The guy with the first 6 hits on a bounty gets the reward even if he quits and lets someone else clear it

 

In a GvG you can do one hit and as long as the other guild didnt do 2 by the time 24 hours is up its a win,, nobody has to finish 50 hits.

 

Level by getting 51% to your next level and sit in realm and let someone else kill the creatures.

 

When you look at it from these perspectives rewarding someone for doing 51% of the kills and waiting for somebody else to clear it seems to be pretty silly.

 

let's look at it from another angle see it like the 50% 1 is all the kills possible to get on the titan and the rest is bonus for those who want to get some TKP and who are slower than the top this way they don't get excluded the people who did most of the work should be able to expect from the slower ones to do the rest of the job they killed it the slower ones just gotta clean up the mess

 

 

 

In a GvG you can do one hit and as long as the other guild didnt do 2 by the time 24 hours is up its a win,, nobody has to finish 50 hits.

 

 

 

contradictions you say that no1 gets it so it's not the same as gvg thus what this would mean is that the remaining TKP are gone and the winners still get the item solution for the winners of the epic but not for the losers

 

and remember lower levels with limited stamina can't secure so they will go for the TKP but no longer at higher levels

 

low level titans that aren't fuvayu, tsuki or gurgriss get cleared all the time but it's the higher level ones mostly

 

why you ask?

 

they don't want to waste their precious stamina because 3 hunts for 1 item is too much they want to do it in 1 hunt but that requires a team effort most of the times.

 

how do we fix this? we don't we want them to waste their precious stamina in 3 hunts because they are at end of content and they claim to have nothing to do:p ( no hurt intended just cows vision i think )

 

so i think that lower level ones should be lowered a tiny tad but higher level ones should stay this way overall they are epics they are ought to be scarse and especially the higher level ones

[watagashi]

If I was Hoof id have a easy fix,,,

 

Remove the scout tower info on active titans,, cant see you secured cant stop when you have

 

Reduce TKP on some titans,, this part id need help with to make sure it was fair since I cant reach all. I think the best solution there is let TKP total equal 75%. To me its fair because they do 1 1/2 times what a guild that got 51% secure did so its reasonable to get a reward based on that.

 

Tweak spawns, make sure that at any time there are at least 3 titans available.

 

Give them 24 hours to clear or lose all secure and TKP, other parts of the game have time limits such as 48 hours for bountys and 24 for gvgs, maybe add up to 48 hours for higher level ones again feedback would be taken into account but by all means I would not have any titan sitting around for a week

 

If I was Hoof id also remove bonus TKP from 2nd-5th and instead make pots with those cool sounding buff names like imobolise titan, make it like a RP pack where 2nd place gets IT for 3 hours for the whole guild,, encourages more guilds to go for it as they get alternate rewards in the event they get pushed out of a secure by the domminating guilds.

 

that would be my solution.

[WWWolf]

On the negative side of requiring the securing guild to "clean up after themselves" in order to get their secure, what about the small guilds like mine where there is only 1 or 2 titan hunters.  I personally have soloed the Kraken and I can assure you I did not "clean up after myself".  Then again, I wouldn't have been able to if I wanted due to the lack of remaining stamina.

 

This forced cleanup option does have some merit but in the end would hurt the small guilds more than the large.

 

How about enabling guilds to get the TKP above the 50% +1 for the secure so that if 3000 kills is required for a secure and the guild kills it 4000 times, they get the drop plus 1000 TKP (plus any bonuses if the remaining hits gets them in the top 5).  This would ENCOURAGE large guilds to "clean up" while not penalizing small guilds for not being able to.

 

Of course, this will most likely cause some instances of guilds getting 2 items from 1 Titan if they secure and are close to the required TKP but I personally don't think that is necessarily a bad thing (perhaps an extended cool-down in these cases?).

[WWWolf]

If I was Hoof id also remove bonus TKP from 2nd-5th and instead make pots with those cool sounding buff names like imobolise titan, make it like a RP pack where 2nd place gets IT for 3 hours for the whole guild,, encourages more guilds to go for it as they get alternate rewards in the event they get pushed out of a secure by the domminating guilds.

 

that would be my solution.

This has a LOT of merit.  2nd - 5th still get the TKP they earned but some kind of bonus other than extra TKP...

I really like this idea.

[Removed18058]

If I was Hoof id have a easy fix,,,

 

Remove the scout tower info on active titans,, cant see you secured cant stop when you have

 

Reduce TKP on some titans,, this part id need help with to make sure it was fair since I cant reach all. I think the best solution there is let TKP total equal 75%. To me its fair because they do 1 1/2 times what a guild that got 51% secure did so its reasonable to get a reward based on that.

 

Tweak spawns, make sure that at any time there are at least 3 titans available.

 

Give them 24 hours to clear or lose all secure and TKP, other parts of the game have time limits such as 48 hours for bountys and 24 for gvgs, maybe add up to 48 hours for higher level ones again feedback would be taken into account but by all means I would not have any titan sitting around for a week

 

If I was Hoof id also remove bonus TKP from 2nd-5th and instead make pots with those cool sounding buff names like imobolise titan, make it like a RP pack where 2nd place gets IT for 3 hours for the whole guild,, encourages more guilds to go for it as they get alternate rewards in the event they get pushed out of a secure by the domminating guilds.

 

that would be my solution.

 

that just wouldn't work for any1 ... thus making titan hunting no longer rewarding for any1 and making it useless for everybody please think a bit more ... i mean this way is the perfect balance between the higher and the lower players ... sure tweak the TKP a bit for the lower levels but don't make it dissapear etc etc else HCS would be saying hey you just gained 100 stam let's take 80 of that stam and remove it

 

 

 

you can't compare gvg with titan hunting at all ....

 

 

if one guild initiates a conflict they do 50/50 hits so they do their part i would equal that with a guild securing so 50% + 1

 

so if the other guild does nothing they gain nothing neither do they lose anything since they'll probably be an RP farm already

 

but if they do respond they gain something same for titan hunting if they go clean up they get some TKP = reward

 

 

if a bounty expires it's either because this person could not be defeated 10 times due to hard work by buffs etc etc or everybody was scared of getting counterbountied (because of a famous name) but so it's always hard work ...

 

getting 50%+1 kills is hard work and should be rewarded you can't just take the reward away babe ...

 

it takes me 1,5 hours to secure a lestus solo that's 1,5 hours of ma life and you'd just let that be stolen away from me na ah babe

Edited by cripler, 14 November 2013 - 22:23.

[dragon1234]

 

Give them 24 hours to clear or lose all secure and TKP, other parts of the game have time limits such as 48 hours for bountys and 24 for gvgs, maybe add up to 48 hours for higher level ones again feedback would be taken into account but by all means I would not have any titan sitting around for a week

 

I feel like this particular solution is too extreme. Seem like it would be easier if secure only happen in the first 24 hours. Any Titan killed after the 24 hour time frame would only give TKP. People can still get their TKP and would still force guild that are going for secure to try and finish off the titan, while still getting something for the stam spent. Besides, since the current TKP multiplier is more than (2x), the most a guild can get after the first 24 hour is 2x, so the incentive will be there for them to finish it off in time for the item secure. 

[Removed18058]

I feel like this particular solution is too extreme. Seem like it would be easier if secure only happen in the first 24 hours. Any Titan killed after the 24 hour time frame would only give TKP. People can still get their TKP and would still force guild that are going for secure to try and finish off the titan, while still getting something for the stam spent. Besides, since the current TKP multiplier is more than (2x), the most a guild can get after the first 24 hour is 2x, so the incentive will be there for them to finish it off in time for the item secure. 

 

so you want the better titan hunting guild to completely deny the slower titan hunting guilds?

 

that's mean of you ...

 

TKP might be their only way to an item and you'd let that be taken away

Edited by cripler, 14 November 2013 - 23:02.

[dragon1234]

so you want the better titan hunting guild to completely deny the slower titan hunting guilds?

 

that's mean of you ...

 

TKP might be their only way to an item and you'd let that be taken away

 

The 24 hour period is arbitrary. It could be any number of hours or days. Really, its whatever HCS feels comfortable with.  

 

My personal opinion is that 24 hours is plenty of time for a guild to get in the fight and pick up some TKP.