118 replies to this topic

[donalde]

And tbh, defenders do have a fighting chance a lot of the time. I win some hits when I am unbuffed, in my epics, and get hit by buffed up people

 

So, those are something you PvP'rs call a friendly slap? I cannot see how that happens if attacker is taking things seriously, if my maths doesn't fail in here, to beat your unbuffed offline (epic) gear attacker needs to have 9k attack, 15k damage (in case RA kicks in) and some 65k armor (in case your CS and PS kick in) and something like 100 hp in case attacker is really unlucky and misses 100 times (or was 100 rounds equal draw, it might be less?) while you hit attacked with 1 damage

[donalde]

After reading rest of the posts.... I can only say: whoa, nicely hijacked and trolled post. No one even tried to make suggestion to improve my original suggestion. And only PvP'rs did their best to smash my suggestion. Nicely done. I could point out multiple flaws on counter argument, but that would make me feel like don Quixete. 

 

So, PvP is broken, and PvP'rs don't even wanna fix it way that would give target any chance to defend oneself. There were multiple suggestions on PvP protection, XP lock, smashing back, free retaliation (that could also work), but no single answer how to actually defend oneself, when PvP can decide when, buffage and gear while possible targets only chances are keep buffed up (costs thousands of stamina daily), use PvP protection (which actually doesn't protect anything but xp and that attacker does not gain prestige), still gold can be stolen or just hit to annoy / harass target, use xp lock which is basically milder version of PvP protection. 

 

Only real solution was mzz's suggestion to cut down buffs on pvp, but that list would be quite drastic, as it would require new balancing on buffs. And like mzz said, PvP'rs don't want that.

[Maehdros]

I'm curious Doomy, would a revenge hit negate the ability to bounty? Ie: I attack someone, they get their revenge... Can they still place a bounty as well?

Secondly, how would deflect work with this revenge hit.

And lastly would YOU use this revenge option if available to you?


Cheers!

Edited by Maehdros, 16 November 2016 - 12:08.

[Subject]

So... from what i have browsed through so far on this Topic is that what's wanted is a retaliation button with no consequences for pushing after you are hit? Am I right? Ok wel if for some out of this world reason HCS agrees to make something like this if there is a " retaliation button " and you decide hmmmm I dont want to look like a wimp and I should hit him back but hmmmm i dont want to he bountied either so inguess ill push the button... Then that should make it so if the defender decides to hit back using this " Freebie " button then the defender should lose the right to Bounty that player for his initial hit... there is NO WAY someone should he allowed a free hit back w/ no consequences and still have the right to Bounty that hitter..... If you want to see PvP increase in the game them Make 100 stam prestige hits worth more than 10 stam hits and introduce a few " Bound " potions or items that you can purchase with your prestige ... of course items or potions should he PvP related and 1000% bound so farming Multiplayers isn't as bad

[Ryebred]

Donalde, forgive me if you think I'm just here to troll a post. Fact is I don't see any way to improve on the bad idea.

Doom recommended the retaliation button, or revenge hit. I am not opposed to this idea if it negates the victims ability to post the original hit in the process, and actually think it would be an improvement. However with that said, I don't see many players outside PvPers utilizing the option when bounty board on a minimum clear guarantees more "punishment" then the revenge hit. I'm guessing that the proposed simplified revenge hit would be in addition to ability to post a bounty....or free double dip, and I will not get behind that if this is the case.

[Necra]

After reading rest of the posts.... I can only say: whoa, nicely hijacked and trolled post. No one even tried to make suggestion to improve my original suggestion. And only PvP'rs did their best to smash my suggestion. Nicely done. I could point out multiple flaws on counter argument, but that would make me feel like don Quixete. 

 

So, PvP is broken, and PvP'rs don't even wanna fix it way that would give target any chance to defend oneself. There were multiple suggestions on PvP protection, XP lock, smashing back, free retaliation (that could also work), but no single answer how to actually defend oneself, when PvP can decide when, buffage and gear while possible targets only chances are keep buffed up (costs thousands of stamina daily), use PvP protection (which actually doesn't protect anything but xp and that attacker does not gain prestige), still gold can be stolen or just hit to annoy / harass target, use xp lock which is basically milder version of PvP protection. 

 

Only real solution was mzz's suggestion to cut down buffs on pvp, but that list would be quite drastic, as it would require new balancing on buffs. And like mzz said, PvP'rs don't want that.

 

 

considering the slaughter pvp has gone through over the years, where it is today is better than its been in a long time.  wasnt trying to shoot you down, and no offense how much do you pvp?  if your going to pick apart pvp some one who is bias and knows pvp inside and out would be better suited to pick it apart - like mzz said in global smasher is obtained from ladder only i kinda agree with her logic on that dom medal and smasher level are only obtained through pvp ladder... kinda riddiclious. as for defending in pvp the "targeted" player has always had the benifit. as for defending. buffs....  lower level players who are not in stronger guild dont stand a chance against a lower level player in a stronger guild as they can get pvp buffs easier than others.. how should we pay for that?   because that player cant compete with other guilds supporting its players in the pvp aspect of the game... i think not. 

[Leos3000]

Donalde, forgive me if you think I'm just here to troll a post. Fact is I don't see any way to improve on the bad idea.
Doom recommended the retaliation button, or revenge hit. I am not opposed to this idea if it negates the victims ability to post the original hit in the process, and actually think it would be an improvement. However with that said, I don't see many players outside PvPers utilizing the option when bounty board on a minimum clear guarantees more "punishment" then the revenge hit. I'm guessing that the proposed simplified revenge hit would be in addition to ability to post a bounty....or free double dip, and I will not get behind that if this is the case.

Pretty sure doom said with revenge hit no ability to bounty the initial attack.

Also wanted to comment on revenge hit vs bounty. Revenge just costs the player some free Stam to hit back and feel better. A bounty costs the attacker more gold to post (meaning more on top of what they already lost from the initial attack..) I think more of the game has come to realize that placing a bounty is not cost effective to them and why the bounty board has become so dead...

-the bounty board sure was alive when the system was randomly posting hits. I wouldn't mind seeing like a 2-5% chance of auto posting for and PvP attack outside of the ladder. Auto posts would be for 1 fsp rewards as well.

[Ryebred]

He actually updated his original post to include the detail that a revenge hit negates the bounty on initial hit, an I missed it. I'm actually supportive of his idea.

I don't like the idea of randomly posted bounties. Twice the exp loss to the posted is plenty worth the gold investment.

[Mzzery]

So, those are something you PvP'rs call a friendly slap? I cannot see how that happens if attacker is taking things seriously, if my maths doesn't fail in here, to beat your unbuffed offline (epic) gear attacker needs to have 9k attack, 15k damage (in case RA kicks in) and some 65k armor (in case your CS and PS kick in) and something like 100 hp in case attacker is really unlucky and misses 100 times (or was 100 rounds equal draw, it might be less?) while you hit attacked with 1 damage

 

Not really.... people try to win, but if they aren't in the least into PvP, it's not always easy to calculate things. I respect that not everyone knows how to do that, and I usually just tell them what stats they'll need to win the next time.

 

And.... I am definitely not here to troll, just air my views on your suggestions..... I would completely hate seeing normal pvp turn into another Arena...  to show you exactly how far from your view mine is, here's a short list:

 

1. I'd like the ladder to be removed, and all hits (with the exception of the BB and GvG) to count towards it.

2. I'd like pvp protection to be removed. 

3. I would like ALL 100 stams in the game, not just ladder and BB hits, to count towards smasher medal.

4. I'd like every single hit in the game, including ladder, to be bountyable.

5. I'd like the amount of levels you can take on the BB to be increased to 10+.

6. I'd like MasterThief to kick in 20%+ of the times.

7. I'd like Gloat to work FAR better.

8. I'd like Deflect to be completely removed from the game.

9. I'd like prestige to be based on stamina used, so you get less if you 10 stam, and more for a 100 stam hit.

10. I'd like a cappuccino and a grilled vegetable/goat cheese sandwish.

 

I know a lot of people would run for the hills if I got most of those wishes, so that won't happen. I'll take care of number 10 myself here in a minute though. My point being, I also know a lot of people who would leave if your suggestions were implemented, and as much as I like that you make suggestions, I can't support those specific suggestions, and I never will. I'd probably be one of the first to leave, and I would hate it if it came to that (again). I love the community in this game, the friends here is what keeps me logging in. The cows have a very difficult task, trying to keep everyone happy, but if you think of where the game is at at the moment, and then compare it with some of my suggestions, and yours, you might see that it's actually not all that bad the way it is, right?

Edited by Mzzery, 16 November 2016 - 14:37.

[xxlooperxx]

After reading rest of the posts.... I can only say: whoa, nicely hijacked and trolled post. No one even tried to make suggestion to improve my original suggestion. And only PvP'rs did their best to smash my suggestion. Nicely done. I could point out multiple flaws on counter argument, but that would make me feel like don Quixete.

So, PvP is broken, and PvP'rs don't even wanna fix it way that would give target any chance to defend oneself. There were multiple suggestions on PvP protection, XP lock, smashing back, free retaliation (that could also work), but no single answer how to actually defend oneself, when PvP can decide when, buffage and gear while possible targets only chances are keep buffed up (costs thousands of stamina daily), use PvP protection (which actually doesn't protect anything but xp and that attacker does not gain prestige), still gold can be stolen or just hit to annoy / harass target, use xp lock which is basically milder version of PvP protection.

Only real solution was mzz's suggestion to cut down buffs on pvp, but that list would be quite drastic, as it would require new balancing on buffs. And like mzz said, PvP'rs don't want that.

The only way pvp is going to get fixed is if there is a larger player base.. that's the only way anything is going to get fixed here..

If HCS was to cap EOC, instead of worrying about the 100-150 players complaining about more levels every month, then we might actually have a solution.

The pvp system we have now is mostly fine. Work on increasing the player base, then start adding desirable rewards. Then pvp will fix itself

[Calista]

After reading rest of the posts.... I can only say: whoa, nicely hijacked and trolled post. No one even tried to make suggestion to improve my original suggestion. And only PvP'rs did their best to smash my suggestion. Nicely done. I could point out multiple flaws on counter argument, but that would make me feel like don Quixete. 

 

So, PvP is broken, and PvP'rs don't even wanna fix it way that would give target any chance to defend oneself. There were multiple suggestions on PvP protection, XP lock, smashing back, free retaliation (that could also work), but no single answer how to actually defend oneself, when PvP can decide when, buffage and gear while possible targets only chances are keep buffed up (costs thousands of stamina daily), use PvP protection (which actually doesn't protect anything but xp and that attacker does not gain prestige), still gold can be stolen or just hit to annoy / harass target, use xp lock which is basically milder version of PvP protection. 

 

Only real solution was mzz's suggestion to cut down buffs on pvp, but that list would be quite drastic, as it would require new balancing on buffs. And like mzz said, PvP'rs don't want that.

 

 

PvP'ers are replying to your topic because it is about PvP.  That's a pretty good way to get our attention. Your suggestions are not that different from the same stuff that's been said for years.  The cows keep trying to give the person attacked some way to protect themselves or retaliate. AND IT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH!  Get your friends together and do the work instead of asking for the cows to do it for you. It's perfectly possible. We prove it on a daily basis.  It just requires you to do something.  Hire mercs, post a bounty, hit back, buy pvp protection, put in some effort.  You can do it!

 

PvP has been called broken for years. That's thanks to all the updates that were suppose to improve it. Stop fixing it already!  If the mentality was to 'increase' activity in pvp you might actually get somewhere. But your goal isn't to improve anything. The mentality has been for years to limit the players who participate in this area of the game.

[Leos3000]

Thought of a simple way to make the defenders gear actually matter again.

Have an enhancement on gear that acts exactly like fist fight.

So if you have gear on with this enhancement and no buffs you still have some degree of chance to successfully defend an incoming attack.

[KitiaraLi]

Aimed at OP:

First thing that springs to mind; Who exactly do you have in mind to code the suggestion? It's not that I wanna belittle the moo moos, but .. seriously?

Second thing; Why not just use all the available options already in game? (as Calista so nicely pointed out above).  Btw, the "you can do it" comment made me spit my coffee all over the place while almost choking with laughter.

And lastly (for now) - I actually liked doomsies idea with a revenge hit (if a little more work was put into it). I am all for more ppl touchi... erhm.. hitting me And if that makes ppl feel safe from the big mean guild of evilsies.. well.. hit away safely then :-)


PS. For the trolls trying their best to hijack the thread earlier; Yes, the particular guild in question is feared, and should be. There are some of the games finest PvPers, from some of the games finest (now dead or dying) PvP guilds assembled here, making this the not last, but biggest attire of evil doers, with a sworn resolve to keep PvP a part of the game.

[Calista]

Thought of a simple way to make the defenders gear actually matter again.

Have an enhancement on gear that acts exactly like fist fight.

So if you have gear on with this enhancement and no buffs you still have some degree of chance to successfully defend an incoming attack.

 

So now we're just going to put the buffs into the gear instead of making the players do something, or have any responsibility?  How much easier does this game need to be made?  My guild watches the bb and buffs our members when needed. We pay attention in gvg's to see who is hitting and buff our members who are targets. We keep our ladder players buffed when necessary. We put in effort to be as effective as we are. So many pvp 'updates' could have been avoided if the cows would make the players actually PLAY THE GAME themselves.

 

 

Edit:  Sorry about the coffee, Kit.  =P

Edited by Calista, 16 November 2016 - 16:32.

[Melissa3]

I was hit even though i carried no gold and had protection.  I probably  spent  about 100 fsp on bounties and this player only  lost 12 levels.

 

Who knows  what motivated them to attack.  Possibly they where trying to get me to hit back so i would  lose levels?  To be honest I really  dont know.  But I know I would be guaranteed to lose 5 levels with  each  10 stam hit I take.

 

A revenge hit sounds GREAT !   Pvp is not difficult.  Even as a non pvper I have always been successful when deciding to pvp.

 

If you  want levellers to embrace pvp LETS MAKE IT FAIR .

Edited by BigGrim, 16 November 2016 - 17:58.
No unwanted attention please.

[cucullainn]

What I can't figure out is. Why after defending a GvG assault, and having it declared a draw. We are hit again buy a low-level player in a guild where more than 80% of its members are inactive? Including all of their Founders and leaders. Leads me to think of the possibility of multi accounts, amongst other negative thoughts. I hope I am wrong

[Calista]

I was hit even though i carried no gold and had protection.  I probably  spent  about 100 fsp on bounties and this player only  lost 12 levels.

 

Who knows  what motivated them to attack.  Possibly they where trying to get me to hit back so i would  lose levels?  To be honest I really  dont know.  But I know I would be guaranteed to lose 5 levels with  each  10 stam hit I take.

 

A revenge hit sounds GREAT !   Pvp is not difficult.  Even as a non pvper I have always been successful when deciding to pvp.

 

If you  want levellers to embrace pvp LETS MAKE IT FAIR .

 

 

Risk free pvp is not making anything fair. It's giving you yet another easy pass because you don't want to do the work required.

 

You know why you were hit. You had pvp protection on. It cost you only what you were willing to pay.  Less then 100 fsp is alot less then your bio promise of all your fsp's to destroy the 'thug' hitting you. 

 

Still wondering?

[sweetlou]

Thought of a simple way to make the defenders gear actually matter again.

With a majority of players sitting offline with stam gain gear to the delight of HCS' donations, it reminds me of the failure of the last round of Ladder rewards that made crystal stam gain gear an udder joke. Player vs. Player has never had anything to do with individual players or what gear they wear. PvP is about players reacting to an attack! Certain tools have always been in place to thwart attacks - PvP protection, the variety of BB reactions, deflect, avoiding carrying gold to name a few. The vast majority of players have no complaint about PvP because they can easily avoid being a target.

 

I'm going to applaud HCS here so take note. Since the daily quests have increased somewhat the desire to PvP among players who historically wouldn't have, we now are obliged to engage in some newly found kerfuffle. It's worth it. PvP enticement has been greatly lacking for years. Now some players who have little experience with PvP, like in this thread, are pushing back because they are just learning all the lessons the PvP aspect entail. This is not new. Occasionally we see players who race to EOC and and have to wait for new content so come to find PvP isn't what their xp-centric attitudes prefer. PvP is a vital component of the game. Sorry but don't try to "fix" what ain't broke.

[donalde]

Doom's revenge idea is actually good, and like most have said, revenge should disallow placing bounty on attacker and revenger. I think I even might hit back just to prove level only player can do PvP. Like Melissa said: 

 

 

If you  want levellers to embrace pvp LETS MAKE IT FAIR .

 

On mzz's wish list ... #9 seems fair to me. And I am against #10, I rather haver bacon and beer  

[Melissa3]

It seems only fair that if someone decides to hit me I should  have the right to take a revenge hit back within a specified time period.

 

Obviously by  taking that  revenge hit I lose the right to bounty and likewise the initial pvper should not have the right to place a bounty  on my revenge hit.

 

Simple idea but totally FAIR.