78 replies to this topic

[Pardoux]

Here's a thought ...

 

Scrap ALL restrictions on PvP - anyone can hit anyone

BUT ....

ANYONE who want's a free (or cheap) opt-out can get one - with restrictions of course. I.E. they can't hit someone and then get protection - it would only be allowed, say, after 24 hrs of not hitting someone (so as to give the person hit, if there were one, chance to get retaliation).

 

Now, I know that the "fs is a PvP game" line will be trotted out .... fs is also a titan hunting game, an se hunting game, a champion hunting game, a normal critter hunting game, an arena game, an inventing game etc etc etc - and no other aspects are forced upon another player.

 

So, let it be opened up fully, but give those who want no part of it an iron-clad opt-out.

 

(waits for the flames .... )

[Removed4427]

 

i stand with you risking the flames...why are some so afraid of an opt-out?

[Pardoux]

 

i stand with you risking the flames...why are some so afraid of an opt-out?

 

I suspect, because then, the only targets the PvP'rs would have, would be themselves ..

[sweetlou]

i stand with you risking the flames...why are some so afraid of an opt-out?

Make it so I don't have to level... just do away with xp. No conflict, no challenge, no game! Want a game without PvP, go play one. Why are you guys so opposed to PvP when it has always been an integral part of the game? Have you ever tried it?

[Pardoux]

Make it so I don't have to level... just do away with xp. No conflict, no challenge, no game! Want a game without PvP, go play one. Why are you guys so opposed to PvP when it has always been an integral part of the game? Have you ever tried it?

 

What you see as a conflict, a challenge, others see as something they want no part of. The only PvP I ever did was when early quests required it (now removed, as you know) but that doesn't mean I should have to continue with it.

 

I'm not saying it's not part of the game - it is - but different players play different facets of the game - and until all are "semi-obligatory" as PvP is (as in you can't preclude it other than paying to opt out) then none should be.

 

No-one HAS to level (unless they want to target a specific range for pvp)

 

No-one HAS to kill SE's

No-one HAS to take part in the arena

 

No-one HAS to titan hunt

 

No-one should HAVE to take part in PvP

 

 

(EDIT)

 

Also, why does the idea of PvP being opened up as  a free-4-all for those that want to take part in it, whilst allowing those that don't want to, to completely avoid it, scare PvP'rs ? - is it because they realise that they'll have even fewer targets than they do now ?

Edited by Pardoux, 29 July 2014 - 23:09.

[BadPenny]

What's the matter Pardoux? Why shouldn't PvP open up a bit? It doesn't directly affect you, and it would spark up a currently dying game.  I admit that I primarily play the PvP part of the game, but I do other things as well... There just need to be more PvP opportunities as time progresses... If you don't want to PvP, that's your prerogative, but you don't have to force feed us your opinions...

 

 

Just my 2 Pennys 

[Pardoux]

What's the matter Pardoux? Why shouldn't PvP open up a bit? It doesn't directly affect you, and it would spark up a currently dying game.  I admit that I primarily play the PvP part of the game, but I do other things as well... There just need to be more PvP opportunities as time progresses... If you don't want to PvP, that's your prerogative, but you don't have to force feed us your opinions...

 

 

Just my 2 Pennys 

 

*chuckles* - so, because I look at PvP from the flip side of the coin, I'm force-feeding my opinion ? LMAO - I could accuse PvP'rs of doing exactly the same if I wanted

 

You're entitled to your viewpoint on PvP - and so am I.

 

Opening up the target "restrictions" would affect me too btw - the opening post asked for the gap to widen - and subsequent posts have suggested that the gap widen further every "x" amount of levels ...

 

PvP protection is an anathema to PvP'rs, I understand that - but, if there wasn't the demand for it, then it wouldn't get used and all ranges would have plenty more targets. To me, that says (a few / some / a majority - only cows know the figures) like and use it (and thus want to avoid PvP) ...

Edited by Pardoux, 30 July 2014 - 00:03.

[Removed4427]

an old theory of mine is that the cows make decisions on game play based on what their accountant tells them as he or she is writing their paychecks

 

i would guess starting many years ago when levels lost on the board were limited to 5 (was this the first limit in PvP?)

 

newbie protection

 

GvG limitations and requirements

 

PvP protection, and etc

 

to excel in the PvP part of the game requires a much more dedicated attention to detail than the casual player who just logs on to kill a few critters and do some quests

[pinkdude]

What's the matter Pardoux? Why shouldn't PvP open up a bit? It doesn't directly affect you, and it would spark up a currently dying game.  I admit that I primarily play the PvP part of the game, but I do other things as well... There just need to be more PvP opportunities as time progresses... If you don't want to PvP, that's your prerogative, but you don't have to force feed us your opinions...

 

 

Just my 2 Pennys 

It directly affects everyone. How can it be argued otherwise? If the PvP range opens up, I can be attacked by more people. Simple as that. I also would like to take a moment to dissect your point about that increased ranges would "spark up a currently dying game". I think it would do the opposite. I think its already been established that PvP was driving new players away, hence new player protection.

And then, PvP Protection was introduced, probably, to further stop people from leaving because of being forced to participate in an aspect that they had no interest in. It seems to me that PvP drives more away, than it brings it.

 

What's the problem with making it only opt in?

Then only PvP'rs would fight PvP'rs. Or is PvP only fun if you can target passive players who won't fight back?

 

EDIT: The "You" I refer to is aimed towards PvP'rs in General, not a personal attack on BadPenny.

Edited by pinkdude, 30 July 2014 - 00:42.

[Removed4427]

please consider this hastily constructed meme/pic - exaggerated for effect

 

 

in my opinion the most damage is at the lower levels, when management should be getting newbies hooked/addicted to the game

 

would anyone deny the scenario of a new player (or a multi of an experienced player) getting themselves a killer set  and, with some coaching (or years of experience being a multi of a host player)  running around hammering on clueless newbies for easy gold

[sweetlou]

to excel in the PvP part of the game requires a much more dedicated attention to detail than the casual player who just logs on to kill a few critters and do some quests

You finally nailed it. The problems with the game, in my opinion, are that too many players become complacent grinding out levels so they quit.

 

No-one HAS to level (unless they want to target a specific range for pvp)

This is untrue. If you don't level, you don't play. What you might intend to say is you don't have to continue to level past a certain point. But that is also slightly untrue since after deleveling eventually you need to relevel otherwise you end up back at level 1. Now with PvP there are so many ways to easily avoid being hit, namely don't carry too much gold, that the likelihood is nearly zero. Yet the RISK remains and THAT is what makes this game a game!!

[sweetlou]

would anyone deny the scenario of a new player (or a multi of an experienced player) getting themselves a killer set  and, with some coaching (or years of experience being a multi of a host player)  running around hammering on clueless newbies for easy gold

I wouldn't deny it. A major component of the game is learning how to dump gold so that you aren't that repeated target. It seems so simple. Focus on that.

[Pardoux]

 

This is untrue. If you don't level, you don't play. What you might intend to say is you don't have to continue to level past a certain point. But that is also slightly untrue since after deleveling eventually you need to relevel otherwise you end up back at level 1. Now with PvP there are so many ways to easily avoid being hit, namely don't carry too much gold, that the likelihood is nearly zero. Yet the RISK remains and THAT is what makes this game a game!!

 

Semantics Lou - levelling to me is progressing through the content - not regaining a level or two you may lose as a result of being bountied and delevelled.

 

I'm still awaiting an answer on the whole ...

"open up PvP completely, have no level restrictions but allow anyone who wants to, to completely opt-out"

comment too ..

No level restrictions means an open playing field for those that want to PvP ... but, those that don't want to, won't be on the playing field at all ...

Edited by Pardoux, 30 July 2014 - 01:10.

[Removed4427]

... too many players become complacent grinding out levels so they quit....

 

I wouldn't deny it. A major component of the game is learning how to dump gold so that you aren't that repeated target. It seems so simple. Focus on that.

 

the word "game" itself....implies.....oh i give up i'm just too tired right now

[sweetlou]

Semantics Lou - levelling to me is progressing through the content - not regaining a level or two you may lose as a result of being bountied and delevelled.

 

I'm still awaiting an answer on the whole ...

"open up PvP completely, have no level restrictions but allow anyone who wants to, to completely opt-out"

comment too ..

No level restrictions means an open playing field for those that want to PvP ... but, those that don't want to, won't be on the playing field at all ...

Well, you're waiting for the wrong person to reply because I never said open it up to "no restrictions." I merely agree with the OP who asks if we could increase it at the higher levels, not for new players. The gap between player concentrations at low levels and EOC is growing. The available concentration of targets for PvP should be adjusted.

 

As far as your semantics, whether you level or relevel it is the same thing, you spend stam!!

[pinkdude]

Well, you're waiting for the wrong person to reply because I never said open it up to "no restrictions." I merely agree with the OP who asks if we could increase it at the higher levels, not for new players. The gap between player concentrations at low levels and EOC is growing. The available concentration of targets for PvP should be adjusted.

 

This is the scenario in which Gutie's suggestions could come into play and, possibly, be very helpful to revive the game,

[sweetlou]

This is the scenario in which Gutie's suggestions could come into play and, possibly, be very helpful to revive the game,

Sorry I had to go back and re-read that long post, where I don't agree with a couple points. First, I didn't understand his "950 vs 1200 vs 1310/1425 vs 1550/1600 gap for gear" example. You wouldn't be able to "tank up" a 50 to 100 level difference in my opinion. Not above level 1000. It seems the primary opposition in his post was to stop more trading of Prestige hits, with which I completely agree. Instead I propose that Prestige hits should be adjusted to reflect stam used, 10 stam attacks earn only 1 Prestige and 100 stam attacks earn 10 stam, every 3 days of course outside the Ladder and BB. This will stop the trading of hits instantly!

[pinkdude]

Sorry I had to go back and re-read that long post, where I don't agree with a couple points. First, I didn't understand his "950 vs 1200 vs 1310/1425 vs 1550/1600 gap for gear" example. You wouldn't be able to "tank up" a 50 to 100 level difference in my opinion. Not above level 1000. It seems the primary opposition in his post was to stop more trading of Prestige hits, with which I completely agree. Instead I propose that Prestige hits should be adjusted to reflect stam used, 10 stam attacks earn only 1 Prestige and 100 stam attacks earn 10 stam, every 3 days of course outside the Ladder and BB. This will stop the trading of hits instantly!

I should have been more clear. I was more referring to his point to increase the XP gain for levels under 950. I can see both sides of the argument. Some will argue that they had to grind through it/buy FSPs to level through those first 950 levels. And some will say its a "win" button. But also, it could reduce the level gap between low levels and EOC. Giving more PvP targets without increasing the range. It also may increase the amount of new players. Would anyone like to join a game and see someone that is level 2,000 after 6 years of playing? But that's for a whole new thread.

 

I still haven't seen an argument against the "completely open up PvP". Wouldn't it be more fun for PvPers to just PvP among themselves? I have trouble finding the entertainment in attacking someone offline, knowing that they probably won't attack back. Would it not be more entertaining to trade hits? I thought that was the appeal of the BB. To "dance" with each other to get the right setup.

[sweetlou]

I still haven't seen an argument against the "completely open up PvP". Wouldn't it be more fun for PvPers to just PvP among themselves? I have trouble finding the entertainment in attacking someone offline, knowing that they probably won't attack back. Would it not be more entertaining to trade hits? I thought that was the appeal of the BB. To "dance" with each other to get the right setup.

You won't find an argument against from me. I think it would make a great side game to "opt in" for.  It sounds more like an expanded Ladder bracket. But I don't believe it would be beneficial to go game-wide, especially with how some players remain in denial that PvP is part of the game. It's too much.

 

You mention having trouble attacking someone offline or unbuffed. This is a common conundrum. This aspect of the game isn't so much the act of being attacked(or attacking) but how a player responds. Do you, or can you, drop the offender 5? This isn't so simple to get hitters that can and will hit and can even lead to more delevelings depending how that response is. Do you merely attack back? Will it stop there or will you have to continue to hit again? Do you only post them on the BB, and if so for how much? Sometimes posting for a higher reward amount makes a difference, sometimes not. The scenarios are almost endless. But to think PvP is only about one player vs another and you would be dead wrong. It has a huge social element, one you can't find anywhere else in the game!

[RebornJedi]

A major component of the game is learning how to dump gold so that you aren't that repeated target. It seems so simple. Focus on that.

new/low level players should be buying max stamina gold upgrades constantly to help progress them through the game faster and burn stamina longer each time. Its the best way to dump your gold and stay off the thieves radar.. Plus buffs and equipment help with a better defense

I still haven't seen an argument against the "completely open up PvP". Wouldn't it be more fun for PvPers to just PvP among themselves? I have trouble finding the entertainment in attacking someone offline, knowing that they probably won't attack back. Would it not be more entertaining to trade hits? I thought that was the appeal of the BB. To "dance" with each other to get the right setup.

getting rid of the level attack range would only create too much chaos for open PvP. That level battle is already there in the bounty board. And PvPer versus PvPer already have a battlefield on the Ladder.

I wish to attack players around my level. My entertainment with swinging at random players around my level is the building of my prestige, stealing gold, meeting new players, making new friends/allies, getting players involved with PvP and hopefully finding another fun thing to get into..

Opening up the attack range gradually throughout all the levels would give players more opportunities to battle an online opponent. There is no need for drastic changes to help better the attack range and target availability. A full opt out of PvP would destroy the fun of PvP and any chance to bring it back to a highly active part of the game.

Edited by RebornJedi, 30 July 2014 - 07:52.