86 replies to this topic

[Yuuzhan]

heh, I dont know why people are... but yes I am level 28 composing now.  And no, nothing new for level 29 composing

 

I am pretty sure people are trying to get to level 50 first, but to tell someone your level would be to say "you need to spend more fsp to be faster then me" so to spend less fsp yourself you just dont tell anyone or lie about your level.

[DomCorvis]

I think this is decent, better then nothing.

Looking at yuuzhan's corrected spreadsheet 5 xp extra per level may be a bit much.

I think 1 instead of 5 is good solution. As it at least gives some type of gain to xp as you level. Pair it with evilbry's post and we have something good.

Also want to point out yuuzhan's post was a robot composing 24/7 no human can compose that much consistently... At best it's probably 1/2 that rate for 90% of FS.

So if you want to get more interest make more feel like that can obtain a goal reasonably

agree with this 100% i looked at yuuzhans #'s originally and thought that 5 was a bit excessive. but 1 is a good idea imho. but i also REALLY like Evilbry's idea. it is a GREAT way to sink the massive amount of frags we just received AND help players who want to compose but dont have the time to be on 24/7

[BigGrim]

I also REALLY like Evilbry's idea. it is a GREAT way to sink the massive amount of frags we just received AND help players who want to compose but don't have the time to be on 24/7

Anything that can sink frags and allow us to to run frequent Global Frag Events has to be good, right?

[fmrdave]

Ceratinly.  Evilbry's was a great idea.  Would allow for slightly faster progression in composing levels and be a big sink for the frags.  I did a quick calculation on how long my current supply would last after the global event and given my average of ~7 20xp pots a day then I likely don't need any more frags until into next year.  If I could turn a 20xp into a 30 xp for an extra 18 frags (or even more) then I'm right in there.  And why wouldn't I just make a 30xp in the first place - a) more than twice the price and the composing time is far more which is big issue. I want to keep the gold cost down to something reasonable, don't want to have to wait forever to make a potion, and would love to progress a bit faster.  This idea covers that.

 

Alternatively, cut the composing time to a flat 1 hour for all potions, but with the same instant finish parameters. That should also create a frag sink.

 

Dave

[yotekiller]

I thought we already had an XP boost system in place.  There is a big chart on wiki explaining how much XP you get for each pot and the number of frags required.  If you want more XP, it will cost you more (and rarer) frags.  This XP boost is just an idea to shortcut the system and get more XP by only using common frags.  I'm not necessarily against that idea but it does need to be weighed carefully before implementation.

[Ryebred]

run with Bry's suggestion & nothing more please - the more I learn about composing & see how far so many have managed to this point in it's young life - the less I think there needs to be any adjustment to how it is.  That said at least Evilbry's idea sinks some of the excess frags there are -so it makes sense given the times, and desire to do more future frag events. 

[BraveKath]

I'm gobbling up the frags to level and for the most part just doing 20xp potions, though can do 2 at a time.

Anyway, glad to see your post BigGrim and that you're considering small adjustments rather than dramatic sweeping changes.

[DomCorvis]

Anything that can sink frags and allow us to to run frequent Global Frag Events has to be good, right?

 

Exactly!!! sink more frags and run more events!!!! would be a great thing. I thought the last frag event was amazing. but as stated. at my current rate and making 20 xp potions i would have enough frags to last me for months and months...probably even a year

[gomezkilla]

I thought we already had an XP boost system in place.  There is a big chart on wiki explaining how much XP you get for each pot and the number of frags required.  If you want more XP, it will cost you more (and rarer) frags.  This XP boost is just an idea to shortcut the system and get more XP by only using common frags.  I'm not necessarily against that idea but it does need to be weighed carefully before implementation.

Getting the most XP out of each composed pot using the least amount of frags is not an XP boost system, that is just being the most efficient while you are composing.

 

This XP boost system would take whatever buff arrangement you wanted concocted and then adding the XP boost to its output. The cost for the XP boost would be to double the amount of frags needed for the original potion.

[Yuuzhan]

Idea on the double frags / 25% extra xp for composing - perhaps this is only unlocked with FSP upgrades.  Eg each 50 fsp you spend, you get a bonus 5% if you check the box, to a max of 25%

 

or something.  maybe less FSP but still an extra FSP sink (or a gold only upgrade for a gold sink)

[Kedyn]

Getting the most XP out of each composed pot using the least amount of frags is not an XP boost system, that is just being the most efficient while you are composing.

 

This XP boost system would take whatever buff arrangement you wanted concocted and then adding the XP boost to its output. The cost for the XP boost would be to double the amount of frags needed for the original potion.

 

While this is okay, I don't think it really should be implemented. Going with what Bry posted, I could make a 30 XP potion for 12 frags instead of a 30 XP potion for 24 frags (cost of what it makes normally). Or 45 XP for 48 frags instead of the 54 frags it could cost for a 40XP potion.

 

Now I have no problem adding this for the max XP potions you could possibly make, but I don't see the exact need for it. 

Edited by Kedyn, 07 March 2014 - 15:35.

[Belaric]

TTTT *Timeout!*

 

This thread amuses me in a depressing sort of way. And yep I'm being a doomsayer as my pet topic is being totally ignored.

 

Composing was created after people asked to do something with the large numbers of unused and unsaleable legendaries that had collected in their huge BP's, along with the, at that time, continuing addition of useless common and rare items to the game.

 

The excess legendaries and the useless commons/rares only existed because game inventory was not being managed very well. Why keep adding commons every level when you have created buffs that make them obsolete? That only happened for 600 levels after the creation of co-at. 400 for sure after commons were utterly killed as useful by smashing hammer. A small oversight.

 

So to manage things better - we create composing. A way to get nice potions for  gold plus the expenditure of useless items that need not have been in the game anyway if the inventory had been better controlled. If no excess commons and legendaries had existed - the impetus for this idea - the cauldron suggestion of years past, would never have happened. Composing is an item and gold sink. Hurray.

 

The game continues, people complain about lack of globals, the idea to make globals to give away frags comes along. So now we are giving away the frags that were supposed to be gained by breaking down items, okaaay... These are supposed to be 'mini' globals -smaller reward, more frequency.

 

We have one - the reward is absurdly HUGE. Years worth of frags in all directions, any impetus for frag farmers, or for folk to hunt SE for frags is nuked. Also having the low level bad guys drop extra frag chests of their own? Genius. More frags on top of the gigantic reward. We now have frag overload, and not from a glut of items, but from a gross developer miscalculation. Sorry BG, but ONE Ruby chest would have been awesome - you choose to give away 6? When people were still killing the low level guys for their own drops? Smart. See my theme here? We keep on coming up with solutions to problems that should not exist, if the devs understood/ managed their own game a bit better.

 

Now everyone is drowning in frags we get ideas suggested to burn extra frags and /or gold to make composing level up faster - you know because we need to get rid of these extra frags, man!

 

This is a vicious cycle where we get problems that should not exist and then propose solutions that are not needed if we go back to the root of the problem and start again.

 

In medicine this is where you give a patient a pill for an actual medical problem. It causes side effects, you give them another pill to deal with the side effects, it causes more side effects, you end up giving a patent 10 different pills to treat one problem, and they come into hospital sick as a dog. They don't need more treatment, they need less. They need someone to look back, and stop all the medicines and try again to treat the original medical problem in a different way that does not cause unwanted side effects.

 

I'm getting that sense here.

 

And we want everyone to get into composing? Why? Because if everyone does it, and can make their own sexy pots that are better than the skills they can earn then the game becomes truly solo. (NO! Long before that the unbind our pots lobby will become deafening - silly me!) Between invented pots and composing pots most skills are already covered - it is getting harder to create new potions people want - and composing is introducing new high level skills, so as the range of composing increases what other skills will be added - how obsolete will most basic buffs become? This could be considered a side effect of composing that we can see coming. What effect will that have on the game?

 

Composing does make people log in to click through the process. Does it engender other activity? Are we chasing an online number at the expense of actual in game interaction?

 

Composing is a squirrel. We are being distracted by it. This XP boost idea? If folk are already at level 28 why is it required? (because it was boring to get there? It takes too long/is too hard? How did those poor souls make it there then?) Are we looking for composing WIN buttons here? If we get one, how will it help the game to have huge numbers of players able to make their own pots for every occasion? What is the ultimate goal here? Does anyone know? Just making people more active in composing should not be an end in itself if we do not have a solid idea of the consequence of that activity.

 

If we have too many frags in the game, whose fault is that? The irony of having too many frags, so people stop breaking down items (needing frag hunters) for a feature that was created to get rid of excess items is too delicious. The side effects are taking over the patient. Time to withdraw treatment and take a look at the big picture and see what happens.

 

Fix the flawed guild medals.

 

Other than that, go crazy with the composing. Sigh.

Edited by Belaric, 08 March 2014 - 08:15.

[Undjuvion]

@ Belaric, its fighty fight's but its so right there is no smart arguement against it that cant be nullified, it is what it is

[kalish]

*snip*

 

Great points all around. At first I thought it was great that I won't need to hunt LE/Crystal/SE frags basically ever again. Then I realized that that market will completely dry up. Snap a zero off the end of each frag type in those chests and it would have been just right.

 

I had been planning to farm a ton of common frags a few days ago (had planned it for weeks), selling enough of them to cover the big pots I used. Then the frag event hit and the market disappeared. I did the hunt anyway but kept nearly all the frags for myself, so I won't need any frags at all for several months. Sure, this seems like a good thing, but I'm not the only one with this mindset. I am now one fewer customer for the lower-level frag farmers who for a short time actually had a decent alternate source of income in this game.

 

What we need is a way to sink these frags relatively quickly without completely distorting the game economy. Perhaps a buff merchant in the Cathedral of Ways that sells good buffs (Librarian 275, AL 250, LF 400, etc.) at the cost of a bunch of frags.

[Uralus]

The event did get me into composing. potion pollution has increased. Instead of me throwing away all those common items, now i throw away all those useless potions I make just for the composing XP. The floor is getting all sticky from the stuff.

 

But, I have only touched my common frags. All those other frags are still savely tucked away, and will last me still a long time to come. I think that a lot less people will go hunt for frags in the next legendary or crystalline event. The great success of this last GE will ripple into future events...

[yotwehc]

Snap a zero off the end of each frag type in those chests and it would have been just right.
.

That's a great idea. See how the response would be with a significantly smaller stash. A mini-mini global event. Take the 0 off and you could do this event almost monthly.

As with Kalish, I was a auction house stalker looking to buy all types of frags. Now I just look for commons.

As with Belaric's short summary,( it's a good read) he brings out the fact again that we keep creating new problems for ourselves. Sorry Belaric- although your watered down medal is a problem, I think our easy button, give it to me now is an even bigger problem.

Mark my words, after the composing xp enhancement occurs and we have a bunch of players at level 50, the next cries will be what about composing lvl 100? Then soon after that, it's too slow! We need a 32x xp composing event

[DomCorvis]

i keep hearing we have ALL these players at lvl 27-28 composing? how many actually are there? honestly? 2-3? outta 2,000 people? (was the last # i heard of active particpants in certain globals) that seems awfullt low doesnt it? .2/.3% of population? for that matter how many players are above level 20 composing? i mean you're talking fractions of percentages overall in the community.....

[Kedyn]

i keep hearing we have ALL these players at lvl 27-28 composing? how many actually are there? honestly? 2-3? outta 2,000 people? (was the last # i heard of active particpants in certain globals) that seems awfullt low doesnt it? .2/.3% of population? for that matter how many players are above level 20 composing? i mean you're talking fractions of percentages overall in the community.....

 

There are probably only a handful of extreme composers who are 20+ already at this point in the composing game.

 

My question to you on this topic is - why give a bonus for double frag cost (ie allow a 50% bonus to a 20XP potion for 12 frags) when you can make people pay more fragments by making them create a 30XP potion for 24 frags? You're actually allowing people to save frags in the long run. Now if you quadruple or multiple frag usage by 5 for the bonus, then I'm down. Making it more expensive to create a 20XP potion + 10XP bonus than a 30XP potion on it's own would be mathematically correct, and may limit the abuse of the system as it is currently stated. 

[yotwehc]

i keep hearing we have ALL these players at lvl 27-28 composing? how many actually are there? honestly? 2-3? outta 2,000 people? (was the last # i heard of active particpants in certain globals) that seems awfullt low doesnt it? .2/.3% of population? for that matter how many players are above level 20 composing? i mean you're talking fractions of percentages overall in the community.....

So after 6-8 months of introduction, what should be the number? You never answered my question on just how quickly a "normal" player should reach composing EOC? Should everyone? This is a moving target, what should be the curve after 6 months, 1 year? How many don't compose at all?

[DomCorvis]

*edit for bad math

 

 

**edit- ive never said i wanted a win button nor did i say it should be easy to reach eoc of composing...but judging by the average # of potions players make(which is between 10-15 per day from what my other forum post is showing) it'll take 1 yr of never missing a potion...no matter what i say i wont win this arguement. BG seems to think a slight tweak would be a good option. And i agree....but whether or not they follow thru with it is up to them. either way i'll keep trying to work my way up the composing levels to help my guild.

Edited by DomCorvis, 07 March 2014 - 21:08.