52 replies to this topic

[rhann123]

No to this entire idea, this would make hunting dang right annoying and in my opinion even more boring. Stats isn't what made hunting boring, over powering buffs + gear made it boring. I can remember planning my hunts out and everything years ago. We can't go back to how it used to be without making a giant gap between the rich and poor. The easy fix would be to changing stats of creatures to better suit gear and buffs available at that level. For instance at level 1,200 Armor stats + Hp would be bumped up to compensate for Smashing Hammer becoming available. All in all you want to incorporate strategy not annoyances which in the case of your suggestion is only adding annoyances. As far as hunting being boring goes, you either like it or you don't. Hunting is always going to be the same from level 1 to 1,500 it'll never change. If you find it boring there are plenty of other things to do in the game other than hunt. Anyhow that is my proposed fix. Cheers.

[Filletminion]

I don't understand your argument...

If the mobs stats can vary wildly, why not just make a setup to beat the max stats it can get? If the mob has high defense, just counter with high attack, and sacrifice some damage. You might be 2 hitting, but it's still possible.

Why does this mean you'd have to check the stats of EVERY mob?

If the creature has a high variance itself then some creatures will have low attack, high defense, high armor and low damage while other creatures (the same name, map and level though) have high attack, low defense, low armor and high damage.

When hunting people want to be as efficient as possible so 1-hitting is highly desired. If creatures with the same name, map and level can have high stats in any stat then you'd need a setup with high stats in basically everything to beat it. It's quite difficult/expensive (sometimes impossible without the use of uber pots) to design a setup that has both (1) high enough attack (zizzwyly's example had a creature with 77k defense) and (2) high enough
damage to get through the armor (which can be a high value within its variance) and also taking all the HP.

If such a setup can't be found or will cost too much then, in order to stay hunting fairly efficient (stam-XP-wise), people will have to look at every single creature they find and gear up according to the stats that single creature has. So if you find a stack with 4 creatures and one has high defense, two have high armor and one has high attack then it might take multiple setups to 1-hit them all.

This way hunting will either:
[*:17gh6bvt]take longer (if people decide to change setups multiple times on the same square),
[*:17gh6bvt]become more expensive (if people decide to avoid having to change setups by using uber pots), or
[*:17gh6bvt]become less efficient (if people decide changing setups and using uber pots isn't worth it and thus 2-hit a lot).
Number 1 will make hunting more tedious.
Number 2 and 3 will create a wider gap between rich and poorer hunters.
None of the results sound appealing to me. :?

Wrong once again.
As things stand right now HCS have 5 options when creating critters.
Or haven't you noticed that yet ?
No in one level you would not have critters changing from mega armor to mega def from critter to critter just the same as you do not now.
This is a free game plenty of people choose to two hit rather than donate and buy uber pots and sets people will still have that choice.

[Savanc]

As things stand right now HCS have 5 options when creating critters.
....
No in one level you would not have critters changing from mega armor to mega def from critter to critter just the same as you do not now.

Let's take a few creatures as an example (only current max stats listed):

Level	Attack	Defense	Armor	Damage	HP   	Name        	Type
1449 	16669 	874    	431  	19242 	44705	Acedon       	Vermin
1450 	5097  	419    	23773	7962  	44570	Lechacidi    	Vermin
1451 	5956  	11745  	11727	7852  	44706	Bull Bahamut 	Aquatic
1452 	4410  	25485  	405  	7075  	44831	Hippo Bahamut	Aquatic

You'd have them multiplied by 3 and the max stats will become this:

Level	Attack	Defense	Armor	Damage	HP   	Name         	Type
1449 	50007 	2622   	1293 	57726 	44705	Acedon       	Vermin
1450 	15291 	1257   	71319	23886 	44570	Lechacidi    	Vermin
1451 	17868 	35235  	35181	23556 	44706	Bull Bahamut 	Aquatic
1452 	13230 	76455  	1215 	21225 	44831	Hippo Bahamut	Aquatic

[*:678qrqcw]The level 1449 creature now has much higher attack and damage. It can still easily be 1-hitted (though probably not while having enough defense/armor to keep imps safe), because the defense and armor were quite low so they remain quite low and for the hunter not much extra attack or damage is required.
[*:678qrqcw]The level 1450 creature had high armor, but it has risen to very high stats now. There are several ways to 1-hit the creature with the normal stats (the Wither 450 with Distil 150 is a sure way but costs a few FSPs; using Wither 350 or CA is a less efficient way; using uber pots is an expensive way). With 71k armor it is only a matter of chance to 1-hit because getting a lot more than 71k damage is not very realistic. If SK, DW, SS, CH or PS kick in then you might 1-hit and else it's a huge multi-hit creature.
[*:678qrqcw]The level 1451 creature has medium stats in all. Now the attack and armor have risen to 35k each. This will require more attack to hit the creature if you encounter one with high defense, and that extra attack will likely come from sacrificing some damage. As stated above the level 1450 (with normal stats) already offered some challenge to get enough damage and this creature now can go up to 35k (instead of the 23k from the level 1450 creature). So with this creature there will be a huge difference in the stats of each creature as some will have medium-high defense and others have medium-high armor. Players will feel the need to check each and every creature's stats because the defense-creature requires difference stats to beat than the armor-creature.
[*:678qrqcw]The level 1452 creature is now just a defense powerhouse. People will need to pack a lot of attack, use sets with KE and use DC. Taking into account DC225 and KE200 on 4 sets 'only' 23k defense remains. The attack required to overcome this can be gotten by using high attack sets and some attack-raising buffs, but will require some sacrifice of damage. Those with the best sets will be able to get enough damage to 1-hit; others will have to resort to:
[*:678qrqcw]getting less attack (so enough damage to 1-hit remains) and checking every creature so one can avoid the highest defense creatures,
[*:678qrqcw]using Wither 450 with Distil 150, or
[*:678qrqcw]using Wither 350 or CA and put up with less efficient hunting.[/list]

This way hunting will either:
[*:678qrqcw]take longer (if people decide to change setups multiple times on the same square),
[*:678qrqcw]become more expensive (if people decide to avoid having to change setups by using uber pots), or
[*:678qrqcw]become less efficient (if people decide changing setups and using uber pots isn't worth it and thus 2-hit a lot).
Number 1 will make hunting more tedious.
Number 2 and 3 will create a wider gap between rich and poorer hunters.
None of the results sound appealing to me. :?

I still stand by this.

[shindrak]

Wrong once again.
As things stand right now HCS have 5 options when creating critters.
Or haven't you noticed that yet ?
No in one level you would not have critters changing from mega armor to mega def from critter to critter just the same as you do not now.
This is a free game plenty of people choose to two hit rather than donate and buy uber pots and sets people will still have that choice.

Yea could be but not after you and many went at EOC and let others behind you having it expensive

and Savanc post completely right.

[Bleltch]

Wrong once again.
As things stand right now HCS have 5 options when creating critters.
Or haven't you noticed that yet ?
No in one level you would not have critters changing from mega armor to mega def from critter to critter just the same as you do not now.
This is a free game plenty of people choose to two hit rather than donate and buy uber pots and sets people will still have that choice.

Actually it's a pay to win game and your idea would make it much harder on free players. We have enough players leaving as it is, there's not many left. Lets not run em off any faster.

[AttorraRu]

While it may be free to play, in order to play effectively you need FSP which is damned hard to get a lot of if you can't afford to donate. I know as I've tried gaining FSP by doing things in game as I can't donate. Sorry but money for my daughter comes first.

This idea is a flawed one, finding time to hunt is almost impossible for me as it is. Serously if you can find time to hunt with a 11 month old walking minx trying to grab your keyboard every 5 second then you're a better person than me, either that or not a very good parent who would want to spent that time with your child. Making it harder just No.

[BaiLong]

While it may be free to play, in order to play effectively you need FSP which is damned hard to get a lot of if you can't afford to donate. I know as I've tried gaining FSP by doing things in game as I can't donate. Sorry but money for my daughter comes first.

This idea is a flawed one, finding time to hunt is almost impossible for me as it is. Serously if you can find time to hunt with a 11 month old walking minx trying to grab your keyboard every 5 second then you're a better person than me, either that or not a very good parent who would want to spent that time with your child. Making it harder just No.

My daughter was 11 months old once, she also slept

[Filletminion]

As things stand right now HCS have 5 options when creating critters.
....
No in one level you would not have critters changing from mega armor to mega def from critter to critter just the same as you do not now.

Let's take a few creatures as an example (only current max stats listed):

Level	Attack	Defense	Armor	Damage	HP   	Name        	Type
1449 	16669 	874    	431  	19242 	44705	Acedon       	Vermin
1450 	5097  	419    	23773	7962  	44570	Lechacidi    	Vermin
1451 	5956  	11745  	11727	7852  	44706	Bull Bahamut 	Aquatic
1452 	4410  	25485  	405  	7075  	44831	Hippo Bahamut	Aquatic

You'd have them multiplied by 3 and the max stats will become this:

Level	Attack	Defense	Armor	Damage	HP   	Name         	Type
1449 	50007 	2622   	1293 	57726 	44705	Acedon       	Vermin
1450 	15291 	1257   	71319	23886 	44570	Lechacidi    	Vermin
1451 	17868 	35235  	35181	23556 	44706	Bull Bahamut 	Aquatic
1452 	13230 	76455  	1215 	21225 	44831	Hippo Bahamut	Aquatic

[*:1qo695cy]The level 1449 creature now has much higher attack and damage. It can still easily be 1-hitted (though probably not while having enough defense/armor to keep imps safe), because the defense and armor were quite low so they remain quite low and for the hunter not much extra attack or damage is required.
[*:1qo695cy]The level 1450 creature had high armor, but it has risen to very high stats now. There are several ways to 1-hit the creature with the normal stats (the Wither 450 with Distil 150 is a sure way but costs a few FSPs; using Wither 350 or CA is a less efficient way; using uber pots is an expensive way). With 71k armor it is only a matter of chance to 1-hit because getting a lot more than 71k damage is not very realistic. If SK, DW, SS, CH or PS kick in then you might 1-hit and else it's a huge multi-hit creature.
[*:1qo695cy]The level 1451 creature has medium stats in all. Now the attack and armor have risen to 35k each. This will require more attack to hit the creature if you encounter one with high defense, and that extra attack will likely come from sacrificing some damage. As stated above the level 1450 (with normal stats) already offered some challenge to get enough damage and this creature now can go up to 35k (instead of the 23k from the level 1450 creature). So with this creature there will be a huge difference in the stats of each creature as some will have medium-high defense and others have medium-high armor. Players will feel the need to check each and every creature's stats because the defense-creature requires difference stats to beat than the armor-creature.
[*:1qo695cy]The level 1452 creature is now just a defense powerhouse. People will need to pack a lot of attack, use sets with KE and use DC. Taking into account DC225 and KE200 on 4 sets 'only' 23k defense remains. The attack required to overcome this can be gotten by using high attack sets and some attack-raising buffs, but will require some sacrifice of damage. Those with the best sets will be able to get enough damage to 1-hit; others will have to resort to:
[*:1qo695cy]getting less attack (so enough damage to 1-hit remains) and checking every creature so one can avoid the highest defense creatures,
[*:1qo695cy]using Wither 450 with Distil 150, or
[*:1qo695cy]using Wither 350 or CA and put up with less efficient hunting.[/list]

This way hunting will either:
[*:1qo695cy]take longer (if people decide to change setups multiple times on the same square),
[*:1qo695cy]become more expensive (if people decide to avoid having to change setups by using uber pots), or
[*:1qo695cy]become less efficient (if people decide changing setups and using uber pots isn't worth it and thus 2-hit a lot).
Number 1 will make hunting more tedious.
Number 2 and 3 will create a wider gap between rich and poorer hunters.
None of the results sound appealing to me. :?

I still stand by this.

You can stand by whatever you like, all of the examples you have posted can be 1 hit with gear and buffs that exist in game right now.

[rowbeth]

Hi all people have long complained leveling is nothing more than pressing 12345678 R.

I think I have a solution to that.

If we look at the White Bakab level 1490

Statistics
Class: Demon Level: 1490
Attack: 4575 - 4765 Defense: 25689 - 25753
Armor: 297 - 463 Damage: 7196 - 7358
HP: 45482 - 45838 Gold: 269 - 331
XP: 7986 - 8654

Notice how little variation there is in the Stats most are inside a 200 point range .

What I am proposing would see the base number for the stat be applied and then multiplied 3 times. So in the case of this critter the stats would change to as follows .
Attack:4575 - 13725 defense: 25689 - 77067
Armor :297 - 891 damage: 7196 - 21588

Now as most of you would realize this would require you to actually plan and check before clicking attack.
This would help players learn how to make setups and adjust stats on the fly which is really a core skill of the whole game.It would also encourage players to understand why they use Buffs and when to use them.
Which in turn I believe would create more communication between players asking for help.
At the end of the day this is a game and needs to be played .

 

Personally, I would find that that much variation between individual creatures would make hunting incredibly boring. I have done a couple of levels where I didn't quite have the stats for some of the creatures and so checked each one. That was a long time ago when gaining a level was quicker (i.e. I was low-level), and it was so mindless that it nearly finished my time in the game.

 

Variation from level to level is good. For many levels (up to about 400-500) I needed to change equipment every level, and that make it worthwhile planning ahead.

 

Achieving that now, with so many powerful buffs in the game, would be much harder, and would run the risk of making hunting difficult for poor players while leaving it as too easy for the rich players.

Edited by rowbeth, 12 October 2013 - 11:42.

[rowbeth]

My question to you would be why would you need to look at every single critter ?

 

Its fundamental to the idea that started this thread. If you can simply choose your equipment to make sure you survive against the toughest creature in that level, then the variance in creature stats has become irrelevant: the idea has simply become about the maximum stats. If the variance in creature stats is large enough that you will need to change equipment within the level (i.e. from creature to creature), then you will need to check the stats of every creature you try to attack.

[rowbeth]

Not true actually, players complained all the way through the 1100's about the stam used per level ,as it was frequently over 5500.Before the new wither 450 pot was added.
That led to fewer and fewer players at eoc at one stage there were 2 or 3 if I recall right v 100 plus now.
Hcs did an update at 1221 that gave more xp per critter and also balanced out the stats so from that point onwards players would use the same stamina per level as long as they one hit.

 

I'm afraid the analysis doesn't hold, Kat. With wither 350 (coupled with shield strike, critical hits, and a few other buffs), you end up doing as well as 1-hitting 90% of the time. The introduction of wither 450 only increases that to 98%, so gives less than 10% reduction in the stam per level. The change in experience per level at 1221 was much greater than that AND (more importantly) ensured that the stamina per level would not keep increasing ever more rapidly as the quadratic dependence of the experience level gap really took hold

Edited by rowbeth, 12 October 2013 - 12:34.

[rowbeth]

My question is how come there are those that make EOC or near it and feel it was to easy so now they want it to be harder for everyone else under?
 

 

It took me almost 7 years to make EOC, and you will never once have heard me say "it was easy".

 

It might be good to realise that there is much more variance between the EOC mob than there is between the critters we have demolished

Edited by rowbeth, 12 October 2013 - 12:35.

[Grimwald]

+1

The new map finally got me down from 4 hour hunts to 2-3 hour hunts, won't be able to afford hunting if I have to evaluate every critter before I hit it

I agree with Lahona about this. Having to check every creature is a big NO. I check in advance for the ranges of the mobs I will see, and design an couple of setups around it. Even then a hunt with all my stamina takes a bit of time, and it would increase too much if I need to check every mob itself. Assuming it will only appear at the highest levels, it will mean that I will stop playing when I reach those levels altogether. I only have soo much time for each hunt and checking every mob will just eat too much time. Also note that switching gear for every mob will take a bit of time, and bufs only run for so long. Making a hunt too timeconsuming will just mean that less players are going to bother.

Edited by Grimwald, 12 October 2013 - 15:41.