102 replies to this topic

[Filletminion]

If someone wishes to drop levels intentionally and it seems that players from the same guild are doing it over and over again?
Easiest way to stop them, start hourly smashing members of their guild who do not wish to drop levels.

Or better still form a 124 member pvp guild with the sole purpose of smashing the guild until it falls apart.

And if you aren't prepared to do that then the thread really is pointless.

Smashing folks that dont want to be hit only goes so far .. someone might have enuf fsp to hand out 25 to each guildie to xp lock after every hunt for quite a long time ...

Absolutely and I know quite a few of you do ,but after a while even that will cease to be an option then what will you do ?
Because if that is your only course of action then players will get tired of being hit just before they lock xp, and if you then delevel those hitting they get targets to smash back which in turn becomes a trap that will drag you all down.
It happened to Panic it can happen to any Xp guild.

[Zordor]

If someone wishes to drop levels intentionally and it seems that players from the same guild are doing it over and over again?
Easiest way to stop them, start hourly smashing members of their guild who do not wish to drop levels.

Or better still form a 124 member pvp guild with the sole purpose of smashing the guild until it falls apart.

And if you aren't prepared to do that then the thread really is pointless.

Smashing folks that dont want to be hit only goes so far .. someone might have enuf fsp to hand out 25 to each guildie to xp lock after every hunt for quite a long time ...

Absolutely and I know quite a few of you do ,but after a while even that will cease to be an option then what will you do ?
Because if that is your only course of action then players will get tired of being hit just before they lock xp, and if you then delevel those hitting they get targets to smash back which in turn becomes a trap that will drag you all down.
It happened to Panic it can happen to any Xp guild.

Is it really worth it being that petty over guild xp - it's not like it's causing you to any kind of hurt...

[UrcK]

If someone wishes to drop levels intentionally and it seems that players from the same guild are doing it over and over again?
Easiest way to stop them, start hourly smashing members of their guild who do not wish to drop levels.

Or better still form a 124 member pvp guild with the sole purpose of smashing the guild until it falls apart.

And if you aren't prepared to do that then the thread really is pointless.

Smashing folks that dont want to be hit only goes so far .. someone might have enuf fsp to hand out 25 to each guildie to xp lock after every hunt for quite a long time ...

Absolutely and I know quite a few of you do ,but after a while even that will cease to be an option then what will you do ?
Because if that is your only course of action then players will get tired of being hit just before they lock xp, and if you then delevel those hitting they get targets to smash back which in turn becomes a trap that will drag you all down.
It happened to Panic it can happen to any Xp guild.

Basically what im hearing is if Hoof doesnt do as the PvP'rs demand that they will band together to use threats and force to get what they want ... which has nothing to do with the Smasher medal .. but take away an aspect of the game that levelers enjoy,which is getting GXP ... sounds like collusion,extortion, and blackmail to me ...

[Filletminion]

If someone wishes to drop levels intentionally and it seems that players from the same guild are doing it over and over again?
Easiest way to stop them, start hourly smashing members of their guild who do not wish to drop levels.

Or better still form a 124 member pvp guild with the sole purpose of smashing the guild until it falls apart.

And if you aren't prepared to do that then the thread really is pointless.

Smashing folks that dont want to be hit only goes so far .. someone might have enuf fsp to hand out 25 to each guildie to xp lock after every hunt for quite a long time ...

Absolutely and I know quite a few of you do ,but after a while even that will cease to be an option then what will you do ?
Because if that is your only course of action then players will get tired of being hit just before they lock xp, and if you then delevel those hitting they get targets to smash back which in turn becomes a trap that will drag you all down.
It happened to Panic it can happen to any Xp guild.

Is it really worth it being that petty over guild xp - it's not like it's causing you to any kind of hurt...

To me no it is not,but then a few years ago the actions of one person in attacking other players at EOC and taking relics caused a guild war that saw that guild destroyed.
To me Guild xp does not seem worth that risk does it ?

[Belaric]

zizzwyly: the straight talk express! His point is brutal, but clear.

I was just going to say this - as a now EOC founder, I like the option of being able to delevel to recover from members leaving to help my guild escape guild lock. Maybe a founder priv for the future?

As for the smasher medal issue - yes this is an abuse, and yes some people will have smasher medals who have not, by some people's lights, "earned it", but the same was true of dominance back in the day I believe when hits were swapped. Free BB hits also devalue the BH medal, so the bronze medal means less there too - I imagine a few folk who got that medal the hard way and then stopped will also be irked at seeing smasher and BH medals being given away by this madness for delevelling.

But - this is all burning stam and keeping players playing is it not? I am all for that - why not keep people interested in playing as I believe Davros said earlier.

The gold accumulation is a problem as endless delevelling and using the many available power potions to relevel will be an anti gold sink. As a community we reap what we sow. (We wanted power potions - we now have hundreds - their presence allows this behaviour to flourish.) If this delevelling series grows so profound and common that marketplace prices are distorted by it (and can we be sure they have been already? I am not - I have seen 6-10 players doing it - but I have not been watching that closely - if entire upper echelons of top 10 guilds are doing it in an attempt to gain ground on each other then we are in a bad way in more ways than simply a broken smasher medal and busted marketplace) then we have a problem for new players created by established players. Sorry for my bracket addiction.

So: lets keep people playing. I hope a new 124 man guild of zizz's imagining does not spring into existence. (Though if it does can it be called The Anti-Resurrectionsts? Guild motto: You lose 100 levels by choice, we make sure they stay lost!) Gold gain from delevelled players could be tweaked if the Cows think this is a problem. Currently it is fair game mechanics. Which is not to say game mechanics can be grossly unfair when exploited. I'm just not sure where the unfair advantage is being gained here - my only concern is unnecessary gold coming into the game. Could that be coded for and not punish someone who just gets levels hammered off them as a result of bounties or a guild war? Should that person not be allowed to earn some gold and FSP back as they recover from their damage? How can we distinguish that person from a deliberate deleveller (other than the shout box messages - LOL!)? I don't think we can. But I am not a coder or HCS staff.

[Zordor]

To me Guild xp does not seem worth that risk does it ?

To me Guild xp does not seem worth the trouble for PvPers who reputably don't care about levels or xp

[UrcK]

zizzwyly: the straight talk express! His point is brutal, but clear.

I was just going to say this - as a now EOC founder, I like the option of being able to delevel to recover from members leaving to help my guild escape guild lock. Maybe a founder priv for the future?

As for the smasher medal issue - yes this is an abuse, and yes some people will have smasher medals who have not, by some people's lights, "earned it", but the same was true of dominance back in the day I believe when hits were swapped. Free BB hits also devalue the BH medal, so the bronze medal means less there too - I imagine a few folk who got that medal the hard way and then stopped will also be irked at seeing smasher and BH medals being given away by this madness for delevelling.

But - this is all burning stam and keeping players playing is it not? I am all for that - why not keep people interested in playing as I believe Davros said earlier.

The gold accumulation is a problem as endless delevelling and using the many available power potions to relevel will be an anti gold sink. As a community we reap what we sow. (We wanted power potions - we now have hundreds - their presence allows this behaviour to flourish.) If this delevelling series grows so profound and common that marketplace prices are distorted by it (and can we be sure they have been already? I am not - I have seen 6-10 players doing it - but I have not been watching that closely - if entire upper echelons of top 10 guilds are doing it in an attempt to gain ground on each other then we are in a bad way in more ways than simply a broken smasher medal and busted marketplace) then we have a problem for new players created by established players. Sorry for my bracket addiction.

So: lets keep people playing. I hope a new 124 man guild of zizz's imagining does not spring into existence. (Though if it does can it be called The Anti-Resurrectionsts? Guild motto: You lose 100 levels by choice, we make sure they stay lost!) Gold gain from delevelled players could be tweaked if the Cows think this is a problem. Currently it is fair game mechanics. Which is not to say game mechanics can be grossly unfair when exploited. I'm just not sure where the unfair advantage is being gained here - my only concern is unnecessary gold coming into the game. Could that be coded for and not punish someone who just gets levels hammered off them as a result of bounties or a guild war? Should that person not be allowed to earn some gold and FSP back as they recover from their damage? How can we distinguish that person from a deliberate deleveller (other than the shout box messages - LOL!)? I don't think we can. But I am not a coder or HCS staff.

In my 200 delevel/relevel run i did not gain 1 gold ,in fact i spent more than a max donation in fsp to finish my hunt ... gold is not the issue ...

[Zordor]

But - this is all burning stam and keeping players playing is it not? I am all for that - why not keep people interested in playing as I believe Davros said earlier.

So: lets keep people playing.

I'm just not sure where the unfair advantage is being gained here - my only concern is unnecessary gold coming into the game.

The only benefit to this is the uber sacrifice pots we've been given - which means no gold is gained through a hunt.

To the rest of your points I pulled out - +1

[Belaric]

UrcK, with greatest respect.

That you did not gain gold does not mean it cannot be gained. That you spent FSP does not mean you had to. Those were both choices.

Thanks Zordor! I often need editing!

[UrcK]

Urck, with greatest respect.

That you did not gain gold does not mean it cannot be gained. That you spent FSP does not mean you had to. Those were both choices.

hard to argue against that ...lol

[Belaric]

Urck, with greatest respect.

That you did not gain gold does not mean it cannot be gained. That you spent FSP does not mean you had to. Those were both choices.

hard to argue against that ...lol

LOL! Thank you! And by that I mean this: Hooray for anyone willing to concede a point on these forums. We need more of it. Big props to UrcK.

[lawyergod]

Is it really worth it being that petty over guild xp - it's not like it's causing you to any kind of hurt...

While I do think this, on the whole, is an overblown issue, the Guild xp issue IS something that should be addressed, I think. Saying that it "doesn't hurt people" isn't fair, since that sort of reasoning is what keeps the highest-level guilds where they are, and doesn't give lower-level guilds a chance to catch up. I am all for giving EoC players -- and any OTHER players, for that matter -- a chance to diversify how they play, try new things, and continue to enjoy the game. However, I also think that we should be trying to close the gap, at least somewhat, between higher-level and lower-level Guilds. And while I don't want to unfairly DIS-advantage higher-level players and Guilds, the argument that de-leveling and re-leveling constantly, while staying in an area 15 levels above where you got deleveled TO, and adding high amounts of Guild xp all the while, DOES have some merit, I believe.

What I would propose, therefore, would be to somehow lessen the contributed xp of deleveled players (EoC or otherwise) to correspond to their actual level. For example, if a level 450 gets deleveled to 430, stays in the 450 area, and hunts there, (S)HE gets the full xp given to their character, but his/her GUILD gets contributed xp equal ONLY to what it would get if a level 450 killed a level 430 creature (and then a level 431 creature, after leveling once, and so on). I do not think this would be unduly burdensome to players, particularly to EoC players, but it would also serve to lessen the power gap somewhat, and address what I feel is the only major issue raised in this thread so far.

[Denyza]

Is it really worth it being that petty over guild xp - it's not like it's causing you to any kind of hurt...

You are wrong, honey. It is hurting their feeling. And as you know, feeling is important.

[Filletminion]

Ps ... some of you should read the last line of my first post and seek to understand before you reply.

[iceman66]

Wow...I am baffled. So PvP'ers whine and say "It's not fair that EoC players are using a part of the game to gain more GXP". We are damned if we do, damned if we don't. On one hand "PvP is part of the game", and on the other "PvP should be changed because EoC players aren't doing it right". I don't see what the problem is. Is it that we are gaining Guild XP? Or is it that we are allowing others to 100 stam us? PvP is about choice, and that is why players CHOOSE to 100 stam us on the board. And that is why some of us CHOOSE to lose levels.

By eliminating this aspect of the game, you are changing something that has been around since the beginning. You guys all claim that we are doing it to gain GXP, but what if I just like killing creatures again? What if I just enjoyed past content so much that I want to do it over again? There has been numerous posts claiming that EoC players/levelers are changing this game to suit their needs. This post to me sounds like PvP'ers are changing the game to suit their needs. WE made the levels, so it should be our choice to lose those levels. I've lost a crap load of levels throughout my FS career, and I plan to keep losing them. I would like to know how us losing levels affects you all anyways. I don't get the connection.

[hbklives]

Wanna find a quicker way to kill a game?

Tell all the EOC that they have no choice on what to do with their donations, stamina or time. That'll go over well. Destroy any enjoyment they have left by not allowing them to do what they like. At least they are doing something with their stamina and not staying monotonous and boring.
Who wants to sit around all day and do nothing? Not me.

Just because they are doing something you don't like, you have to cry "wolf"? For God sake's, you'll even threaten, blackmail and try to extort them? This is getting beyond ridiculous.

You know three words that will help you? Live. With. It.

Or will you just sit around screaming and crying until you get your way? Seriously, I'm sick of this "We're always so wronged, levelers get EVERYTHING." attitude. It's BS & you know it.

You complain about "cheapening" a PVP medal.. Do you even look at your PvP practices? I know some people who will delevel 5 just for a ten stamina hit.. Talk about cheapening PvP. You might as well kill it off at the pace you are going.

Honestly, I don't care. Keep complaining about everything in the game that's "wronged" you.

[jklundt]

By eliminating this aspect of the game, you are changing something that has been around since the beginning. You guys all claim that we are doing it to gain GXP, but what if I just like killing creatures again? What if I just enjoyed past content so much that I want to do it over again? There has been numerous posts claiming that EoC players/levelers are changing this game to suit their needs. This post to me sounds like PvP'ers are changing the game to suit their needs. WE made the levels, so it should be our choice to lose those levels. I've lost a crap load of levels throughout my FS career, and I plan to keep losing them. I would like to know how us losing levels affects you all anyways. I don't get the connection.

It cant be cause you hit me, lost on purpose, and then messaged me asking you to post so you can gain more GXP is it? NO it cant be..end sarcasm

PS..Cant forget you asked to have my guildies post you too

[UrcK]

Wow...I am baffled. So PvP'ers whine and say "It's not fair that EoC players are using a part of the game to gain more GXP". We are damned if we do, damned if we don't. On one hand "PvP is part of the game", and on the other "PvP should be changed because EoC players aren't doing it right". I don't see what the problem is. Is it that we are gaining Guild XP? Or is it that we are allowing others to 100 stam us? PvP is about choice, and that is why players CHOOSE to 100 stam us on the board. And that is why some of us CHOOSE to lose levels.

By eliminating this aspect of the game, you are changing something that has been around since the beginning. You guys all claim that we are doing it to gain GXP, but what if I just like killing creatures again? What if I just enjoyed past content so much that I want to do it over again? There has been numerous posts claiming that EoC players/levelers are changing this game to suit their needs. This post to me sounds like PvP'ers are changing the game to suit their needs. WE made the levels, so it should be our choice to lose those levels. I've lost a crap load of levels throughout my FS career, and I plan to keep losing them. I would like to know how us losing levels affects you all anyways. I don't get the connection.

I believe that they are concerned about players earning Smasher medal without having to 'fight' as hard as they did for it .. how the connection to GXP has been made still has me baffled ... wont hear me complaining about folks getting a Titan medal on 'Elementals' when i busted my hump getting ruby on everything but those elementals .. (just a for instance) ..

[iceman66]

By eliminating this aspect of the game, you are changing something that has been around since the beginning. You guys all claim that we are doing it to gain GXP, but what if I just like killing creatures again? What if I just enjoyed past content so much that I want to do it over again? There has been numerous posts claiming that EoC players/levelers are changing this game to suit their needs. This post to me sounds like PvP'ers are changing the game to suit their needs. WE made the levels, so it should be our choice to lose those levels. I've lost a crap load of levels throughout my FS career, and I plan to keep losing them. I would like to know how us losing levels affects you all anyways. I don't get the connection.

It cant be cause you hit me, lost on purpose, and then messaged me asking you to post so you can gain more GXP is it? NO it cant be..end sarcasm

PS..Cant forget you asked to have my guildies post you too

Just because I messaged you doesn't mean others just don't like replaying past content

[Maehdros]

By eliminating this aspect of the game, you are changing something that has been around since the beginning. You guys all claim that we are doing it to gain GXP, but what if I just like killing creatures again? What if I just enjoyed past content so much that I want to do it over again? There has been numerous posts claiming that EoC players/levelers are changing this game to suit their needs. This post to me sounds like PvP'ers are changing the game to suit their needs. WE made the levels, so it should be our choice to lose those levels. I've lost a crap load of levels throughout my FS career, and I plan to keep losing them. I would like to know how us losing levels affects you all anyways. I don't get the connection.

It cant be cause you hit me, lost on purpose, and then messaged me asking you to post so you can gain more GXP is it? NO it cant be..end sarcasm

PS..Cant forget you asked to have my guildies post you too

Just because I messaged you doesn't mean others just don't like replaying past content

Then they shouldnt care if the GXP and how it is applied to a player gaining levels is changed, right? Since they aren;t hunting for GXP?

stuff..again..

It;s been suggested in this thread GXP only count when actually *gaining* levels above the VL a player has ( the max level they have attained in the guild, not those who reset level ups to drop their level). They can still have fun leveling, hunting creatures, hitting friends naked for the smasher medal. Only they wont be able to pad their guild rankings on the xp ladder. How would that chase players away from the game?