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My Suggestions for reviving the Bounty Board (And this is quite radical)


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#41 Chazz224

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 18:43

The Bounty Board is dead too much of the time - So what is the fix for this? Let's change the system and Punish those who PvP further? On the global scale of things while the O.P.'s ideas may seem to intrigue many - many who do not PvP now - Many who would love the " Do What You Want Risk Free Environment"  But in the long run who is seriously going to PvP - who is going to attack someone know they will lose 3 levels for 300k gold or 1 million gold? Not many if any honestly.

 

This is not a proposal that supports PvP - The idea of creating PvP incentives is to get more involved - The bounty board works just fine the only thing that is lacking is targets due to the lack of PvP in game which could be increased via proper incentives. 

 

Proper Incentives - enhance the aspect and gain popularity not punish it further - I can assure you unless I see someone with 10 or 20 million gold on hand all I will be doing is leveling or BHing in this crazy system.

 

- Chazz



#42 vastilos

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 18:57

Yes Chazz, the reward needs to be worth the risk. As it stands, it's currently not.



#43 Chazz224

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 20:14

Here is another aspect from a Mathematical view point for those considering this great idea - Presently the way the bounty board is programed the minimum gold that is attached /  required as a reward to each bounty is calculated by an easy formula.

 

            Offering gold as a reward, you must offer at least 100 gold per the targets level

 

So Let's use me as an example and let's also assume that I am the Attacker that is being posted.

I am currently Level 812 - Presently using the HCS formula the minimum cost for posting me via gold on the Bounty Board is 81.200 gold.  Regardless as to how much stam is used I must be attacked 10 times and defeated prior to me leaving the Bounty Board. ( I took the liberty to calculate how much XP I need to make a level - via how much I currently have right now this way I have an idea of how much XP I have per Level)

 

19.755.970 <----- Current XP
+3.863.307<------ XP Needed until I gain a Level

-----------------
23.624.277 = 1 level

 

The average 100 stam hit on me [while on the bounty board] will take roughly around 3.100.000 million XP to 3.500.00 at most.

 

So Let's round of the 23.624.277 XP to 24.000.000 and lets round up the 100 stam BB hits from 3 mil to 4 mil XP taken per hit.  While we are rounding things up let's also say that your average 10 hits while on the bb to clear using 10 stam given the reward vs xp taken to make things easy we will say 80k gold = 1 attack with 100 stam. <------ I know this may seem confusing for some people. But the majority of Bounties cleared are used with 10 stam hits [ majority ]  and the bare minimum for me is 80k just about. So lets start working on how much it will cost to post my bounty using this formula.

 

Now 80k gold = 1 attack with 100 stam

The average BB 100 stam taking as much as 4 Mill XP it would require 6 hits to take 1 level from me using 100 stam.

80k = 1 attack using 100 stam X 4 mil XP lost / 24 mil XP total per level = 6 hits per level lost and the cost of each level in gold would or should cost:

 

480k for 1 level lost and 480k x per level for a posted player at Level 812. This would be the minimum cost for posting. Or 3 fsp per level at my range.

960 if the poster wanted me to lose 2 levels

1.440 mil gold or 9 fsp to have me lose all 3 levels on the BB.

 

Let's say some level 1900 Attacked someone it would cost this much to post him:

190.200 gold min to post level 1902 = 1 attack with 100 stam


1.141.200 per level lost

2.282.400 for two levels lost

3.423.600 gold for 3 levels lost


Edited by Chazz224, 04 April 2014 - 20:35.


#44 Chazz224

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 20:40

So seeing how expensive it is to post Bounties in this " New idea of a system"  a few questions come to mind?

 

1. Who would PvP for gold on hand - if you can 100 stam 51% of a bounty and gain such a reward?

2. Given the Prices these Bounties will cost to put up, how many will really go out of their way to do so?

3. Does anyone really think this idea will help the game?

4.Will this idea help the PvP community ?

 

I am very doubtful my self - but make up your own minds on this matter.

 

- Chazz



#45 Belaric

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 21:09

After reading this I do not feel this idea will work nor do I feel this idea would be good for the community., I feel the O.P. has noble intent - but with that said " The road to hell was paved with good intentions"

 

Hi Chazz. Let me address your points. This is going to take a while.

 

Yes the victim gets to post the attacker. exactly as happens now. Except the victim can get redress, which does not always happen now.


All that said I can see that their are a couple of pros to this idea - and lot's of cons I will share my thoughts and explain them.

O.P.'s  4 point plan.  

Point 1

1) The victim of an attack sets the punishment required. <----- Let's label this as the first CON vs Pro idea.

The reason why this is bad and listed as a CON:

So anyone attacked in game via this idea would post a bounty up using gold - the amount of gold would reflect how much XP the Poster would want removed from the attacker for such an attack or attempted (deflected attack) I would be happy setting aside deflected attacks as bountyable, as no harm is done. I know BG has always said the intent is there but in this system if punishment is more active perhaps it should only be reserved for those who do actual damage.. This idea is not detailed enough to explain if the punishment is set at a low or medium rate of XP loss for the PvPer that is posted is it possible that the person that is on the board could risk more XP loss exceeding the punishment via multiple hitters?

 

I believe it is quite clear - there is ONE punishment set by the injured party. Once that ONE punishment is met, the bounty is done. If a person says they want 3 levels taken, no more and no fewer levels can be taken. Different bounty hunters do not all take 2 each leading to 6+ levels lost. Only 3 levels can be lost. The BH that does the most damage wins the prize. So it is NOT possible for the punishment to be exceeded by multiple hitters. In terms of amounts of gold required to create the bounty and given as a reward - I have an idea about it - but getting lost in that argument is secondary to the soundness of the overall idea.

Example I post Joe on the bounty board and I want Joe to lose 1 level - but 50 people take Joe's bounty is Joe capped at losing 1 level not matter what or can the 50 people tear Joe to shreds and take all 3 or 5 levels?  If Joe's bounty is capped than you are proposing using the Bounty Board very much like Titan Rewards and secures by whom secures the most out of what the bounty is capped at. If Joe's bounty is set to lose 1 level and can be exceeded than this whole plan from the start is biased and completely unfair to the PvPer.

 

Joe loses one level. Whoever did the biggest % of that 1 level's worth of damage win the fee. If they do over 50% of the damage - they get a tick towards their BH medal in addition to the fee. It does have some similarities with the Titan securing method in that a set amount of XP is set to be lost (1 level's worth) and BH's hit until that amount is gone, rather like a titan's HP. Once the XP required is taken - the bounty ends. I do not believe the system demonstrates bias in this. A person who posts the bounty gets what they pay for. If only we had 50 BH's competing over a bounty!

O.P.'s  4 point plan.  

Point 2

2) The bounty hunter (BH) cannot in any circumstance be bountied. Don’t freak out before reading on – I think this can turn into a good thing. <----- This element contains 1 PRO - and a few CONS

The reason why this is bad and listed as a CON:

So by eliminating counter bounties ( taken them away and preventing anyone from ever using them) ALL Players are free to do as they want - They can and will 100 stam everyone that goes to the bounty board as their would no longer be a " Cause and Affect in A DO WHAT YOU WANT SYSTEM. Yep. 100 stamming will be the most efficient way of completing bounties. Nothing wrong with that if the punishment is set and fixed. It is no more a Do What you want system than now - now players get to 100 stam their enemies, 10 stam pillow hit their pals. Under this new system - you can still do that - off the board, but once on the board you are there to be punished for a transgression. If you cannot own up to the fact that hitting someone else is a punishable offence then why do we have the BB at all? Players would and will run around rampant in this " DO WHAT YOU WANT SYSTEM"  Why? Under this system if you hit someone you get punished. Every time potentially.  Say what you want - do what you want - anything goes cause their would be no penalties for Bounty Hunters. If you say bad things to other players the solution is a ticket, not PvP. PvP play is not a form of morality policing. If a BH takes your bounty and trash talks you at the same time - report the guy. <---- This is to increase PvP Participation? LOL Really ? Who is or would be crazy enough to PvP with such measures? People who want to bounty hunt and not be driven from the board by counter bounties - that's who, and a few have already said they'd go for it if bountying the BH was no longer allowed. Even with 200% chance of always taken the gold per attack - we can create a new buff that drops the defending players stats to zero so there is no chance an attacker can lose - we can remove deflect from the game - and even then this would not encourage PvP activity - Your Bounty Hunters would have no targets in this world There are precious few now, in case you hadn't noticed - and those that venture the BB would know any trip their is a 100% chance of losing all 3 levels so unless it's a crazy and insane amount of gold even with 200% Master Thief with a guaranteed win for the Attack - most will not get involved in this. You know, I've heard it said many many times that PvP players do not care about their levels, and that they are easily gained back, stam and XP regenerate - and yet here you are being worried about losing 3. Currently you frequently discuss the 'risk' of losing 5 every time on the board. You are making me question how realistic that 'risk' of losing 5 is in this concern over of losing 3 you are demonstrating. I assume you PvP for the love of it - the thrill - losing levels is a side effect of that - I'm offering a system where you will get more play, and you are concerned about losing levels. You'll only be losing levels if you are dancing on the BB - I thought that was what you liked and wanted more of. You can get those levels back - and in doing so earn gold!! What am i missing here? This would be the end of the game as we know it. I like you dude, but this is hyperbole. I could flip this on its head and say currently PvP is dead because there is no point people using the BB as the people policing the board are the people who get posted to the board most often - no-one else bothers as they have, over the years, been pushed out. The inmates run the asylum on the board, and that is no good for anyone but the inmates, and now even they are running out of things to do. If no-one is doing gold hits now - then PvP is dead anyway - what are you defending? I have offered ways to increase gold haul. PvP players lament the lack of activity - your own success in controlling the BB has caused it to wither. If you want to play - if you want to indulge in competition - you have to let other people back in. Or you can stay in your fishbowl and see nobody but your mates and wonder why no-one wants to play in your bowl with you. It is because they get torn apart in 3 seconds flat and you go back to being bored. This system allows new blood to enter, and not be out-competed and demoralised by people who have years of experience under their belts. You say you want more folk to play, but are resistant to an idea that has people saying that they will play who have not participated either before, or in years. As I said early on the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The reason why this listed as a PRO:

Those who hate the back lash or repercussion of PvP would have nothing to fear in this " Do what you want system" It is not do what you want - it is retribution upon the guilty. Anyone on the board is there for a hit. No shrinking violets get on the board. Once there punishment is fixed. Nobody gets off easy - the injured party sees justice done. The victim of the hit is no longer punished twice - the community gains more faith in the BB as a punishment system - WHICH WAS ITS ORIGINAL purpose. More people post, more people BH, more people play PvP. Win Win Win. - there for - anyone found on the BB can be smashed with little to no reason they are smashed because they hit someone first Chazz and many will participate in this event - but the best part is without having to fear that the player that is posted can do anything about it. Currently the player posted being able to counter bounty has led to a dead board. Is that what you want? Is that the preferred state of play for you? The counter bounty has been used as a weapon to drive BH's off the board. Or so it seems to me now.  So a Player level 1980 can smash anyone - make fun of them while doing so - berate the players guild - and nobody can do anything about it. You submit tickets to support - it is what the rest of us do. You seem inordinately concerned about people bad mouthing you - why is that? I have often said that a surprise attack stealing gold and XP is likely to irritate the victim, and in the heat of the moment they may dash off an unfortunate message to the attacker. I think a 30 min cooldown on communications between attacker and victim after the attack would minimise this. Why is the attacker surprised by a PO'd message after they have stolen gold and caused XP loss? Why are you so ready to take offence? is it because in taking offence you give yourselves licence to hit people more?  As I said above PvP is not the morality police. Bad language and insults are not acceptable and should be reported.  Yup I see this working out well ..... *Sarcasm* =/ Another controversial PRO to this it would completely put an end to any and all guild wars - outside of normal PvP - nothing can be done - so any guild war would or have to be settled by waiting a few yrs to see if anyone goes to the bounty board. Guild wars as they stand are popularity contests - who has the most allies to delevel the other guild on the BB. The BB was not designed as a weapon in Guild wars, it has been appropriated for that purpose. It is not essential that the Bb etain that purpose to my mind, but it still can be in this system. As I said to vastilos - this system actually allows guild wars to be more direct by allowing guild mates to take each others bounties. In a guild war both sides will be hitting each other, both sides can set take and clear their own bounties. The war will end when one side gives up on hits. The other side will have one last round of bounties to finish out and we have a winner. Direct, clean, no reliance on networks of allies.

O.P.'s  4 point plan.  

Point 3

3) Guildmates can clear each other’s bounties. <----- This element contains 1 PRO - and 1 CON

The reason why this is bad and listed as a CON:

It is said from the O.P. that bounties posted will have a 7 day time duration prior to their expiration. I have agreed it can be cut to 48 hours potentially. So not only in the " Do what you want system will someone that's posted be forced to stay active and online for 7 days trying to defend their bounties if they attempt to do so but in addition to defending all the incoming attacks from outside players the posted individual will have to defend against his own guild mates most likely resulting in less buff support while they are posted.  Only if the guildmates choose to take the bounty - I have no problem with an unwritten code within a guild that you do not take your guildmate's bounty - it has no effect on the wider game - as current unwritten codes of behaviour do on the BB. Chazz - I'm looking for clarity and consistency here, and I think the system I imagined has much more of that than exists now where folk are can fall foul of unwritten rules and BB etiquette. Everyone deserves to know where they stand. I believe doing guildmates bounties is a bonus in a guild war as I said above. You can be cleared by a guildmate, you can clear a bounty your guild mate puts up. Fair for all. <--- So more or less turning brother against brother here in short. Nothing of the sort - bother can help brother by taking a bounty posted by a guild mate. If you want to hit your guildie (a suggestion asked for at times by PvP players if i recall correctly) you can do so and potentially finish the bounty faster and or earn the bounty reward -which may lessen the sting of the initial bounty if you split it with your brother.

The reason why this listed as a PRO:

If the players in the community don't stomp someone and secure the bounty prize first - maybe their is a slim chance a nice mate or friend can save the posted player a level if they are lucky.

O.P.'s  4 point plan.  

Point 4

4) Two new Top 250's for PvP are created: An Outlaw Top 250 is created to track those players who have lost the most levels on the bounty board, and a Lawless Top 250 to track those who evaded the posse of Bounty Hunters and survived on the board for a set period of time, initial suggestion being one week. Additionally Outlaw and Lawless medals could be created in addition to the top 250s. <----- I see no CONS or nothing worth mentioning - However their are some PROS I will comment on.


The reason why these are listed as PROS:

The new Outlaw Top 250 will be extremely competitive in the sense that due to anyone taking part in PvP aspect can expect to automatically lose all their levels once going to the bounty board I say again - it has been frequently asserted in PvP's defence over the years that you constantly run the risk of losing 5 - it becomes apparent that you have enjoyed the reality of not losing 5 that often given how concerned you are over losing 3. There is a reason I dropped the max levels to be lost to 3. If you have been playing all these years and claiming more risk than has been apparently getting through to you, then I find it hard to be sympathetic - it means you have effectively cried wolf about these 5's all this time if you are so concerned about 3's. This is what your responses are telling me. - so this ladder can help ease the pain by assuring those players names are on a billboard and that they can also earn a shiny medal for their troubles and willingness to help keep such an aspect alive. NO - you get the medals for playing the way you want when you want and taking your licks for it. You are PvP badasses and you can take it. That is what this top 250 says. That is what you are doing now, supposedly, but are you? For years PvP players have mocked levellers for clinging to their levels. here is your chance to show how different you are, and you are not embracing the chance. I am very disappointed to be honest. You are not supposed to care about levels, you are supposed to regain them easily enough (VL and a champ anyone? a tactic available at any level - not just EOC!) and here you are fretting over actually losing levels. Why? If you lose levels you hunt and gain gold etc. to effect repairs and pay for running costs, just like those who do not PvP.

The new Lawless Ladder will most likely consist of the EOC players who would there be buffed up to evade the XP loss most times - but this will serve as a list of names for players to review and avoid as they would clearly show them selves to be tough to 100 stam and clear. If the duration is shortened to 48 hours the lawless ladder will consist of those PvP players with the skills and the buddies to keep them buffed and intact. Across any level. EOC players have less gear variations to protect them and are vulnerable to EOC hunters. The limit on bounties was introduced after a legend went was it days or weeks without his bounty being captured? This ladder would also show who to go after for more glory! The challenge of it - I thought that was what PvP players craved!? Who better to take down on the BB than someone at the top of the lawless ladder who has escaped many a time before? Or who has a crystal Lawless medal - you will KNOW that player is a tough nut to crack! How will that not be an achievement that causes pride and satisfaction? I think you search for negatives Chazz.

In closing I feel that the O.P. here had the best of intentions here in topic - I'm sorry to say I don't support it and feel this would do more harm than good in the long run. I see view this as PvP Brutality - not a positive incentive for all - I beg to differ I think this system is more inclusive than the current one. I think gold hauls can be increased via thievery and MT, I'm open to the idea of PvP protection being removed if this system is seen to work. I really think everyone in the community can benefit from this. If or by removing the Counter Bounty features from the Bounty Board I do feel many would run around in game rampant - people would disrespect - 100 stam each other - Especially knowing that their are no consequences for such actions. Disrespect - report. Hit - BB. The way it is supposed to be. The politics of the wild west were done away with for a simple reason - they don't work - if society did away with the police - or countries disbanded their armies - the world may seem like a better place for a moment - and that is refereed to the " Quiet before the Storm" be cause when all hell breaks lose it's comforting knowing we have police and armies to defend us. <---- This is not to say that all Pvpers are such neither You are certainly making it sound like PvP players are our police - and self-appointed ones at that. Not a good thing I feel. The BB as I imagine it will actually better police lawlessness within the game that it is currently. I see that you are worried that you can no longer PvP a mouthy player to make them shut up and show some respect. I can see and understand that impulse - but that is not PvP's purpose as far as I can tell in the game. Yes reports are slow, but that is the official mechanic within the game. If we have a wild outbreak of disrespect and swearing left and right then HCS can take steps. I will even say you told me so, but I think holding back an idea because you will not feel as able to hit someone who mouths off is bizarre. - I am speaking about the ability to defend your selves - have friends here in game or mates stick up and help you. We need these Counter Measures - Hoof was right by creating them - they help keep things fun, interesting,  and above all else fair within the community. I believe counter measures have been used over the years to reduce opposition on the Bb and it ability to function effectively. I am not surprised you like them if you are sovery concerned over losing the levels you ahve for years insisted meant nothing to you on a BB with actual teeth.

 

If the BB does not represent risk, and does not accurately reflect the amount of PvP going on in game - what is the point of its existence? If PvP players would rather be lords of an empty castle, why should they care if the castle starts falling down - does an empty and derelict BB actually suit your purpose? You make me wonder about that, Chazz.

 

Is the current system a Do As You Want system - but only for those in the know?

 

- Chazz


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#46 Belaric

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 21:15

So seeing how expensive it is to post Bounties in this " New idea of a system"  a few questions come to mind?

 

The expense has not yet been detailed. You are creating a straw man Chazz.

 

1. Who would PvP for gold on hand - if you can 100 stam 51% of a bounty and gain such a reward?

You don't get the reward if the bounty is not finished. You want to be sure to get the reward money - finish the bounty.

2. Given the Prices these Bounties will cost to put up, how many will really go out of their way to do so?

Straw man again about prices. Who will do the bounties? Those who want to PvP. Apparently it is addictive.

3. Does anyone really think this idea will help the game?

Me, and a few others on this thread it seems.

4.Will this idea help the PvP community ?

I believe so. You get more opportunities to play against more opponents.

 

I am very doubtful my self - but make up your own minds on this matter.

Why do players gold hit now if it is so unprofitable? Why do players PvP now?

 

- Chazz


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#47 Billybob

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 21:29

I appreciate all the work you have done on this suggestion Belaric but if it went to effect I would not be clearing another bounty.   The problem with the moribund boutny board os not the counter bounty nor the preceived lack of punishment but the shear amount of gold sinks that have introduced in the last year.  There are many more ways of quickly dumping gold then there use to be.  Increasing thievery rates and master thief activations will not lead to more bounty board actvity if there is no gold to steal.



#48 Belaric

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 21:31

Here is another aspect from a Mathematical view point for those considering this great idea - Presently the way the bounty board is programed the minimum gold that is attached /  required as a reward to each bounty is calculated by an easy formula.

 

            Offering gold as a reward, you must offer at least 100 gold per the targets level

 

So Let's use me as an example and let's also assume that I am the Attacker that is being posted.

I am currently Level 812 - Presently using the HCS formula the minimum cost for posting me via gold on the Bounty Board is 81.200 gold.  Regardless as to how much stam is used I must be attacked 10 times and defeated prior to me leaving the Bounty Board. ( I took the liberty to calculate how much XP I need to make a level - via how much I currently have right now this way I have an idea of how much XP I have per Level)

 

19.755.970 <----- Current XP
+3.863.307<------ XP Needed until I gain a Level

-----------------
23.624.277 = 1 level

 

The average 100 stam hit on me [while on the bounty board] will take roughly around 3.100.000 million XP to 3.500.00 at most.

 

So Let's round of the 23.624.277 XP to 24.000.000 and lets round up the 100 stam BB hits from 3 mil to 4 mil XP taken per hit.  While we are rounding things up let's also say that your average 10 hits while on the bb to clear using 10 stam given the reward vs xp taken to make things easy we will say 80k gold = 1 attack with 100 stam. <------ I know this may seem confusing for some people. But the majority of Bounties cleared are used with 10 stam hits [ majority ]  and the bare minimum for me is 80k just about. So lets start working on how much it will cost to post my bounty using this formula.

 

Now 80k gold = 1 attack with 100 stam

The average BB 100 stam taking as much as 4 Mill XP it would require 6 hits to take 1 level from me using 100 stam.

80k = 1 attack using 100 stam X 4 mil XP lost / 24 mil XP total per level = 6 hits per level lost and the cost of each level in gold would or should cost:

 

480k for 1 level lost and 480k x per level for a posted player at Level 812. This would be the minimum cost for posting. Or 3 fsp per level at my range.

960 if the poster wanted me to lose 2 levels

1.440 mil gold or 9 fsp to have me lose all 3 levels on the BB.

 

Let's say some level 1900 Attacked someone it would cost this much to post him:

190.200 gold min to post level 1902 = 1 attack with 100 stam


1.141.200 per level lost

2.282.400 for two levels lost

3.423.600 gold for 3 levels lost

Interesting maths - theoretical scare tactics.

 

Here is an alternative way it could work.

 

Stick with the 100 gold/level as a base.

 

But tied to the victim's level, not the attackers - it is the victim who has to pay after all.

 

For 1 level lost the minimum - 100 gold per level. This should be available to a player of any level as it is 100 gold per their level, not their attackers - the poster has to be able to afford to post after all. This will also have the function of making lower level bounties less attractive to higher level players as there will be less profit to them.

 

If you want 2 levels taken, double it to 200 gold per level. Three levels make it 300/level.

 

A level 100 player wanting 3 levels taken for being hit will pay 30K. They can earn that in a hunt.

 

A level 1900 player wanting 3 levels taken will pay 570K. That is 3 FSP. Not bad.

 

If this seems too cheap it can be scaled up - but it means that players should be able to afford bounties after being hit, if they have any savings. It also means that 3 level bounties are attractive in terms of reward to BH's of that level range. More even battles. the smaller rewards at lower levels will reduce plundering for gold from higher levels, only for BH ticks.

 

These conditions exist right now on the BB. people can scale up rewards if they wish, but there is a minimum to be paid. this system would offer more rewards but not break the offerers bank.

 

This conversation about pricing is only worth having if HCS sweep in on a gilded chariot and say they Love love love the idea and are planning to implement it. That is not happening currently.


Edited by Belaric, 04 April 2014 - 21:35.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#49 Shylark57

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 21:43

Some of this looks okay... But for a bounty hunter to have no risk really is not a good idea at all... How about those that have been and are bounty hunters????? This just takes away from all the hard work they put in and the risks they had to take to get their medals...  Bounty hunting has always had the risk you could get a counter bounty on you and should Stay that way.... I am only at Bronze medal and have had counter bounties on me several times... Any one afraid to be put on the BB needs to sit in a corner and hide.... Just how I feel...

Thanks



#50 Belaric

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 21:54

I appreciate all the work you have done on this suggestion Belaric but if it went to effect I would not be clearing another bounty.   The problem with the moribund boutny board os not the counter bounty nor the preceived lack of punishment but the shear amount of gold sinks that have introduced in the last year.  There are many more ways of quickly dumping gold then there use to be.  Increasing thievery rates and master thief activations will not lead to more bounty board actvity if there is no gold to steal.

Thanks Billybob - I appreciate the input.

 

You would not clear another bounty because there would be none available I assume is your point.

 

Gold sinks have always been a tricky one for HCS. the whole economy goes out of whack very easily if gold is not well managed.

 

I agree it is easy to hide gold.

 

I suppose what I am wondering about now is does the BB as it currently exists reflect PvP activity in game? If it is dead is it because no hits are happening? What then is our PvP population doing? Am I to believe nothing? Why have a BB that is doing nothing and that players have no faith in? PvP is not simply about gold - I have been told it is about risk and about competition - those impulses do not go away because the gold incentive is gone - players still want to test themselves against other players, and the forum for that is still dead. Why so is my question? Could not these changes encourage some more people to step up and be schooled in the ways of PvP, as gold is not really an incentive? New opportunities for bragging rights alone would exist. Have PvP players lost interest?

 

In which case why fight so hard against not bountying a bounty hunter, and having the victim of these rare hits set the punishment? Nothing else has changed in the environment - the BB is moribund now. It may be time to take a risk and try something new. We may be surprised by the results - especially if the current BB does not accurately reflect actual pvp in the game, and would if bountying and BHing were made easier.

 

In terms of getting gold back into circulation: Hits on banks will not fly - but can be asked for - I just don't think it would be popular at all. Risk to the game there. We cannot force players to carry gold. You know, unless we do by changing the rules about timings of bank deposits - will that fly? I'm not sure. The buff to incentivise gold carrying is set so high nobody really bothers with it.

 

If gold sinks are the problem then it sounds like it might be game over for PvP anyway. If gold is the only reason to PvP and that has never seemed to me to be the primary incentive expressed by PvP players. It certainly is a problem that they are not well rewarded, and we should look for ways to increase its profitability. Ironically - this might do it by bring more reliable cash streams into the Bb via the rewards - if they can be thrashed out to everyone's satisfaction, IF the proposals got anywhere other than the nowhere they currently inhabit. Which I am cool with - I had these ideas - had to express them, and am glad I did and for the responses I have received.

 


 

Thanks again for the response.


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#51 Chazz224

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 21:55

Well Belaric - you directed much of what I wrote to reflect what you assume and regard as my own personal fears or insecurities LOL Let me assure you that when I speak in the forum that my comments - my opinions are merely directed in terms of what's best for the community not my own personal agenda lol I don't have one. I understand you taking shots at me or thinking he feels this way or is worried about this... But in the end we both are looking for something that would help the community. This is a game - there are many aspects of it - I totally understand why some support this idea of yours - I also understand why others may not support it. In the Global aspect of things I can't see this idea helping the game or how? This looks more like an Anti Pvper's wet dream on line LOL and even if so ok. I do not support random smashing of people - I do not support trash talk and disrespect - I do not support exploitations or a world without rules ... LOL that is me. I feel whether it's real life, a game, a business - there are rules to everything - you paint a pretty picture without rules - I wish you the best - especially if it were to work - I just can't see it working out.

 

See you paint the picture to show PvPer's as inmates - criminals - running the jail but that's not the case - there is nothing a pvper can do that -  no one else can do in return. Your system says everyone dies lol anyone that takes part in that aspect of the game - burn them to a cross - everyone that helps throw rocks or lights a match is worry free- but there is punishment and then their is brutality. I've seen both and know the difference. I have read new threads that help people learn how to defend them selves - new threads that encourage people to practice PvP and try it out <----- LOL Your idea is anarchy it's not out of misplaced fear I oppose this topic lol it's about maintaining a balance and of having the ability to counter bounty. To have a say - a choice in what happens to such a person that violates you - to stand up, - the ability to defend your self.  <---- Your the first to compare such notions to cowardice but ok... that's one man's opinion < ---- I on the other hand call it honor - respect - handling your own, perhaps that's where you and I differ and that's ok too.  I can agree to disagree with you here.

 

- Chazz



#52 Chazz224

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 21:58

Interesting maths - theoretical scare tactics.

 

Here is an alternative way it could work.

 

Stick with the 100 gold/level as a base.

 

But tied to the victim's level, not the attackers - it is the victim who has to pay after all.

 

For 1 level lost the minimum - 100 gold per level. This should be available to a player of any level as it is 100 gold per their level, not their attackers - the poster has to be able to afford to post after all. This will also have the function of making lower level bounties less attractive to higher level players as there will be less profit to them.

 

If you want 2 levels taken, double it to 200 gold per level. Three levels make it 300/level.

 

A level 100 player wanting 3 levels taken for being hit will pay 30K. They can earn that in a hunt.

 

A level 1900 player wanting 3 levels taken will pay 570K. That is 3 FSP. Not bad.

 

If this seems too cheap it can be scaled up - but it means that players should be able to afford bounties after being hit, if they have any savings. It also means that 3 level bounties are attractive in terms of reward to BH's of that level range. More even battles. the smaller rewards at lower levels will reduce plundering for gold from higher levels, only for BH ticks.

 

These conditions exist right now on the BB. people can scale up rewards if they wish, but there is a minimum to be paid. this system would offer more rewards but not break the offerers bank.

 

This conversation about pricing is only worth having if HCS sweep in on a gilded chariot and say they Love love love the idea and are planning to implement it. That is not happening currently.

LOL Belaric - in your new system the attacker and the victim are always within ten levels of each other lol the math doesn't change and your suggestion only increases the numbers - It's not a scare tactic it's practical one using the HCS formula for bounty hunting today dude.

 

- Chazz



#53 Belaric

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 22:00

Some of this looks okay... But for a bounty hunter to have no risk really is not a good idea at all... How about those that have been and are bounty hunters????? This just takes away from all the hard work they put in and the risks they had to take to get their medals...  Bounty hunting has always had the risk you could get a counter bounty on you and should Stay that way.... I am only at Bronze medal and have had counter bounties on me several times... Any one afraid to be put on the BB needs to sit in a corner and hide.... Just how I feel...

Thanks

Thanks Shylark.

 

I think I've said plenty on why I think counter bounties are counter productive. I am beginning to think that they have reduced risk on the BB, not increased it, as fewer are prepared to participate - but I have expressed that elsewhere in this thread.

 

As for a medal being used to defend the status quo - no sorry - how we gain medals is important only to ourselves nowadays - the game changes and ways of getting medals evolve and we are supposed to suck it up if something is altered - like the increased access to the treasure Chest medal for instance. The BH medal would still be hard to get in my imaginary system anyway, even without counter bounties.

 

If everyone sits in a corner and hides, nothing happens at all. that is where the Bb is headed. Nobody wins. Unless a dead BB is a desired outcome.


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#54 Leos3000

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 22:02

Lots of reading... so forgive me if this is said or suggested:

 

1st The idea of the poster setting the punishment is interesting I would propose this edit to it:

 

-you suggested a max of 3 levels lost which should be the max if you 100 stam them, this sets the precedent for a max limit based on the actual attack...

 

I would say based on this max damage they can ask for is 30x what they received...meaning 100 stam is usually 10% lost equating to 3 levels and a 10 Stam attack equates to a maximum punishment of 30% of a level.

 

2nd a thing to consider for the new posting cost is how much it costs to buy a level (200 FSP) so requiring someone to lose 3 levels shouldnt be too cheap

 

3rd agree with some of the posts I read about still being able to post the hunter

 

4th a week is way too long to constantly defend on the board 24-48 hrs is more feasable (also if they do successfully defend so they get the reward or does it get returned to the poster instead of just vanashing?)

 

 

There was more but with so much to read I will probably have to reread to remember it lol



#55 Billybob

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 22:06

No, I'm sorry I didn't myself clearer.  I would not clear any more bounties under this proposal becasue it would be a waste of stam.  Right now 100 stam gets me a nice reward. Under your idea I would have to expend 100 stam or more to get a simular award.  Not worth my time.



#56 Shylark57

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 22:20

Thanks Shylark.

 

I think I've said plenty on why I think counter bounties are counter productive. I am beginning to think that they have reduced risk on the BB, not increased it, as fewer are prepared to participate - but I have expressed that elsewhere in this thread.

 

As for a medal being used to defend the status quo - no sorry - how we gain medals is important only to ourselves nowadays - the game changes and ways of getting medals evolve and we are supposed to suck it up if something is altered - like the increased access to the treasure Chest medal for instance. The BH medal would still be hard to get in my imaginary system anyway, even without counter bounties.

 

If everyone sits in a corner and hides, nothing happens at all. that is where the Bb is headed. Nobody wins. Unless a dead BB is a desired outcome.

Okay I will make it CLEAR... If you can't play with the big kids go cry in the sand box.... Take counter bounty off the BB then there goes 50% of bounties posted... Have to laugh at people that want to change things about the BB I don't think in all the past months since I have been playing I have seen you on the BB..... So really why do you want it Changed????? Is it maybe so you can hit some one with no Risk... And hate to tell you I don't read walls of Text... It is a waste of my time and yours... And those that worked hard for a BH medal may have done it because they wanted it.... But they also took the Risk involved your way is a Cowards way out.... But I have seen that a lot here.... Just how I feel and see it.... No Risk is a Chickens way...



#57 Belaric

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 22:38

Well Belaric - you directed much of what I wrote to reflect what you assume and regard as my own personal fears or insecurities No - I answered you point by point, nothing was personal, I am sorry you read it that way.. LOL Let me assure you that when I speak in the forum that my comments - my opinions are merely directed in terms of what's best for the community not my own personal agenda lol I don't have one. Neither do I - I believe we both have the interests of the community at heart. I understand you taking shots at me or thinking he feels this way or is worried about this...that was not a shot - it was an inference based on your stated comments that it was a 100% chance of players losing 3 levels going to the BB. Given that the risk has always been 5 I wondered why you were concerned about this. I apologise if you thought I was being personal - that is my last intention. But in the end we both are looking for something that would help the community. Agreed. This is a game - there are many aspects of it - I totally understand why some support this idea of yours - I also understand why others may not support it. Which is cool  - other ideas may grow - and it is HCS' opinion that counts most. they already looked for input on no bountying the BH - this is more of the same. In the Global aspect of things I can't see this idea helping the game or how? This looks more like an Anti Pvper's wet dream on line LOL and even if so ok. I can't agree - but I accept your position. I just think the system as it stands does no-one of any stripe in the community any favours.I do not support random smashing of people - I do not support trash talk and disrespect - I do not support exploitations or a world without rules ... LOL that is me. I feel whether it's real life, a game, a business - there are rules to everything - you paint a pretty picture without rules - I wish you the best - especially if it were to work - I just can't see it working out. I see rules in my system - simple and effective, you see none. I see the current system being broken. You are in effect defending it, even though it does not apparently work. Why?  

 

See you paint the picture to show PvPer's as inmates - criminals - running the jail but that's not the case - If you look back you'll see that was my response to your what i considered hyperbole about my idea being the end of the game - I was being overdramatic and hyperbolic myself on purpose and to effect, a mistake perhaps, and again - if I gave offence I apologise. there is nothing a pvper can do that -  no one else can do in return. Your system says everyone dies lol anyone that takes part in that aspect of the game - burn them to a cross - everyone that helps throw rocks or lights a match is worry free- but there is punishment and then their is brutality. Which part of my trying to increase numbers of pvp players did I not state clearly enough? What about those sections of the community who feel powerless and disenfranchised in the face of PvP attack? The bounty board does not do them any good currently, and your position is okay with that. I am trying to find a middle ground - you feel it is too invasive - that is your right.  I've seen both and know the difference. I have read new threads that help people learn how to defend them selves - new threads that encourage people to practice PvP and try it out <----- LOL Some people will NEVER want to try it out or participate in PvP, they don't want to learn how to defend themselves, but they do want redress when they get attacked. My idea allowed them to be something other than bystanders in the process, which might slowly help them realise it is not all bad. Some might even change their minds from never to maybe. Your idea is anarchy it's not out of misplaced fear I oppose this topic lol it's about maintaining a balance and of having the ability to counter bounty.I freely state I do not see the anarchy in my system. Unless you are convinced that every immune BH will turn into an idiot and bad mouth everyone he hits because he can and not be bountied back. BH can only hit freely on people on the BB outside of that they are citizens like everyone else. To have a say - a choice in what happens to such a person that violates you - to stand up, - the ability to defend your self. As it stands you can hit people. If they hit back you can bounty them and put them on the board. If someone bad mouths you you hit them, if they don't hit back or bounty what is next? You can hit them again. Are they not hitting back because they do not want to be counter bountied and dropped 5? Are they not bountying you because they know you will be soft cleared? I see how that works on people who are misbehaving - but what if the same tactic is used on someone who is minding their own business? How can the general population tell the difference? Is counter bountying defending yourself? Or is it a bait and switch? It depends on the context every time, is ambiguous and open to abuse.  <---- Your the first to compare such notions to cowardice man, I never used the word cowardice , nor did I intimate it - you are going to a hot button word there. But if you wish to purposely misread me fine, I cannot do anything about that.  but ok... that's one man's opinion agreed - sometimes opinions cannot mesh.< ---- I on the other hand call it honor - respect - handling your own, perhaps that's where you and I differ and that's ok too Now who's being personal? LOL!.  I can agree to disagree with you here. Done.

 

- Chazz


No, I'm sorry I didn't myself clearer.  I would not clear any more bounties under this proposal becasue it would be a waste of stam.  Right now 100 stam gets me a nice reward. Under your idea I would have to expend 100 stam or more to get a simular award.  Not worth my time.

Aha - thanks. I suppose it depends on the scaling of the reward then.


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#58 Belaric

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 22:41

Okay I will make it CLEAR... If you can't play with the big kids go cry in the sand box.... Take counter bounty off the BB then there goes 50% of bounties posted... Have to laugh at people that want to change things about the BB I don't think in all the past months since I have been playing I have seen you on the BB..... So really why do you want it Changed????? Is it maybe so you can hit some one with no Risk... And hate to tell you I don't read walls of Text... It is a waste of my time and yours... And those that worked hard for a BH medal may have done it because they wanted it.... But they also took the Risk involved your way is a Cowards way out.... But I have seen that a lot here.... Just how I feel and see it.... No Risk is a Chickens way...

Thanks again Shylark. I'm putting an idea out there. You are welcome to the BB as it stands. I hope some way can be found to make it more active.


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#59 Belaric

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 22:44

Lots of reading... so forgive me if this is said or suggested:

 

1st The idea of the poster setting the punishment is interesting I would propose this edit to it:

 

-you suggested a max of 3 levels lost which should be the max if you 100 stam them, this sets the precedent for a max limit based on the actual attack...

 

I would say based on this max damage they can ask for is 30x what they received...meaning 100 stam is usually 10% lost equating to 3 levels and a 10 Stam attack equates to a maximum punishment of 30% of a level.

 

2nd a thing to consider for the new posting cost is how much it costs to buy a level (200 FSP) so requiring someone to lose 3 levels shouldnt be too cheap

 

3rd agree with some of the posts I read about still being able to post the hunter

 

4th a week is way too long to constantly defend on the board 24-48 hrs is more feasable (also if they do successfully defend so they get the reward or does it get returned to the poster instead of just vanashing?)

 

 

There was more but with so much to read I will probably have to reread to remember it lol

Thanks Leos.


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#60 Belaric

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 22:52

LOL Belaric - in your new system the attacker and the victim are always within ten levels of each other lol the math doesn't change and your suggestion only increases the numbers - It's not a scare tactic it's practical one using the HCS formula for bounty hunting today dude.

 

- Chazz

Yeah - but my numbers make the rewards much smaller so they can be affordable to the poster - but on reflection I can see that the amount could easily be increased.

 

If the rewards required were as big as you calculate - would that not - on its own,provide a huge new impetus onto the board? You calculated  3.423.600 gold for 3 levels lost on a 1902 attacker. A level 1902 player could put that kind of bounty up. It is not near a full hunt's worth of gold at say 25K max stam. Bountys that large are not commonplace. If the bounty can be that big and still be affordable to the poster would that not be an incentive for more people to use the BB? Billybob noted the lack of gold incentive - this kind of reward may make it worth the extra stam to do the bounty, no?

 

Repeat bounties at that cost would be hard to finance, so either the price drops to somewhere in between our two estimates, or the limit on levels could go back up.


Edited by Belaric, 04 April 2014 - 22:52.

Good-bye and hello, as always.



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