187 replies to this topic

[yotekiller]

If-- just throwing this out there-- PvP was "mostly about stealing gold", then let's go whole-hog and make PvP ONLY about stealing gold. No xp loss. Let's see what happens, at least. You might actually see some PvP activity pick up!

Just out of curiosity, how would you "avenge" gold only hits? If the hitter doesn't have equivalent gold on hand to make a return hit then what do you do? You can't take their fsp and throwing them on the BB to take double xp loss hits when the original target didn't lose any xp isn't right so what is your solution?

[Savanc]

If-- just throwing this out there-- PvP was "mostly about stealing gold", then let's go whole-hog and make PvP ONLY about stealing gold. No xp loss. Let's see what happens, at least. You might actually see some PvP activity pick up!

Just out of curiosity, how would you "avenge" gold only hits? If the hitter doesn't have equivalent gold on hand to make a return hit then what do you do? You can't take their fsp and throwing them on the BB to take double xp loss hits when the original target didn't lose any xp isn't right so what is your solution?

Why isn't it right to put the attacker on the BB?

Suppose Person A steals person B's gold and then stores it somewhere safe (bank, FSP, items).
Person B then has the choice to:
[*:2gqyl77f]Let it go
[*:2gqyl77f]Hit back (but he won't get much gold back and also risks a bounty on that hit)
[*:2gqyl77f]Bounty Person A (who then will lose XP - which Person A could have see coming as he stole gold and then stored it, thereby making option 2 unattractive for Person
By the way, if PvP would be gold-only hits then the double XP on bounties might as well be lowered to normal XP on bounties.

[2good4u222]

If-- just throwing this out there-- PvP was "mostly about stealing gold", then let's go whole-hog and make PvP ONLY about stealing gold. No xp loss. Let's see what happens, at least. You might actually see some PvP activity pick up!

Just out of curiosity, how would you "avenge" gold only hits? If the hitter doesn't have equivalent gold on hand to make a return hit then what do you do? You can't take their fsp and throwing them on the BB to take double xp loss hits when the original target didn't lose any xp isn't right so what is your solution?

Why isn't it right to put the attacker on the BB?

Suppose Person A steals person B's gold and then stores it somewhere safe (bank, FSP, items).
Person B then has the choice to:
[*:2r8zyiji]Let it go
[*:2r8zyiji]Hit back (but he won't get much gold back and also risks a bounty on that hit)
[*:2r8zyiji]Bounty Person A (who then will lose XP - which Person A could have see coming as he stole gold and then stored it, thereby making option 2 unattractive for Person
By the way, if PvP would be gold-only hits then the double XP on bounties might as well be lowered to normal XP on bounties.

I rather like the idea (except bounty+ladder continue to lose experience for competitive reasons). It would stop all the levelling complaints whilst still allowing PvP to prosper (increasing theft rates in exchange for relinquishing experience loss).

[Maehdros]

By the way, if PvP would be gold-only hits then the double XP on bounties might as well be lowered to normal XP on bounties.

Why?

[Maehdros]

If-- just throwing this out there-- PvP was "mostly about stealing gold", then let's go whole-hog and make PvP ONLY about stealing gold. No xp loss. Let's see what happens, at least. You might actually see some PvP activity pick up!

I rather like the idea (except bounty+ladder continue to lose experience for competitive reasons). It would stop all the levelling complaints whilst still allowing PvP to prosper (increasing theft rates in exchange for relinquishing experience loss).

PvP will never prosper as long as gold is allowed to be protected. Experience can be protected by a player via xp lock, or pvp protection. Over the years xp loss has been tweaked on the bounty board, off the board, bounties have been multiplied,honor buff was introduced and protection was introduced.

I get that some players don't like being hit, BUT they have the bounty board for revenge. Removing xp loss because players choose not to use the bounty board, or cannot be bothered to use it, is not necessary.


When a player is killed by a creature, they lose xp and gold. Would the community want that changed as well?

[lordthade]

When I've lost gold/xp to a creature (and I have) it was MY choice. I decided to try to hit the thing. It didn't rise up out of the ether. Also, and this is key for me, the monster isn't going to attack me later, or my guildies, or bounty me.

The no-2%-thing helps, too.


I think it's a fine in-between: Normal PvP can be gold-only. The trade-off being that gold hits CAN be bountied and the bounty hits MAY take xp. Only bounty hits.

If I believed I would only lose gold from PvP the only time I might think about using protection is if I was hunting or if a guildie paid me to bank for them. If PvP protection went away completely I wouldn't complain too much. I think I could adjust to this.

Bounty hunters would still get to bounty-hit and earn up some gold that way.

I don't think theft rates would need increasing, but I wouldn't worry one way or the other.

If gold hits increased, then bounty activity would likely increase, too.

*shrugs*

[hbklives]

hbklives was victorious!

xxx lost 680632 experience.
xxx lost 377357 gold of which hbklives stole 283018 gold
hbklives gained 10 PvP Prestige.

Attacking someone with over 2 million gold, with Gloat & 100% Thievery & MT Enchantments for a test. (Was wearing different gear at the time.)
No MT kick, and Gloat didn't really seem to change a thing..
This is kinda sad actually.

[2good4u222]

hbklives was victorious!

xxx lost 680632 experience.
xxx lost 377357 gold of which hbklives stole 283018 gold
hbklives gained 10 PvP Prestige.

Attacking someone with over 2 million gold, with Gloat & 100% Thievery & MT Enchantments for a test. (Was wearing different gear at the time.)
No MT kick, and Gloat didn't really seem to change a thing..
This is kinda sad actually.

Increase theft rates dramatically, remove PvP protection, dispose of experience loss unless bountied. I think that keeps most people happy.

[Bunnybee]

Dispose of experience loss except on the board? Um, that's the worst idea I've ever heard. Really.

[lordthade]

I guess the other option is just keep reading threads about the decline of PvP and/or the death of the game (and levelers are called whiners!).

Either way... we can all agree PvP is flawed. We're just offering suggestions.

[hbklives]

hbklives was victorious!

xxx lost 748962 experience.
xxx lost 3357462 gold of which hbklives stole 2518097 gold
hbklives gained 10 PvP Prestige.

Attacking someone with 12.5 million, with Thievery/Gloat/MT.
The percentage seems way too low.
It's a little over 20% gain?

[lordthade]

By my estimation you just "made" 12 FSPs (which I sincerely doubt you left on your person to be taken back should the affronted party decide to retaliate).

Not too bad to me! To earn that in buff sales would take me 1200 stam or so. To earn it in hunting would likely take more.


Soooo, back to the point, if you increase theft rates the market will go higher. People will "dump" their gold at ever-increasing amounts in order to find a buyer with FSPs.

If you want more PvP, you need to swing levelers to your side. The bounty board is clearly no doing that. If you want more gold from thefts, removing PvP protection will simply inflate the market and likely drive even more players from the game. At the least you'll drive more people to PvP protection and then here we are again....

[Maehdros]

By my estimation you just "made" 12 FSPs (which I sincerely doubt you left on your person to be taken back should the affronted party decide to retaliate).

Not too bad to me! To earn that in buff sales would take me 1200 stam or so. To earn it in hunting would likely take more.


Soooo, back to the point, if you increase theft rates the market will go higher. People will "dump" their gold at ever-increasing amounts in order to find a buyer with FSPs.

If you want more PvP, you need to swing levelers to your side. The bounty board is clearly no doing that. If you want more gold from thefts, removing PvP protection will simply inflate the market and likely drive even more players from the game. At the least you'll drive more people to PvP protection and then here we are again....

12 fsp from selling buffs, 12 buffs x 30 stam ( approximately) each = 360 stam. Not sure where you are getting the 1200 stam from? You sell buffs cheaper then stam cost, that's your choice


Speaking from experience, with the low thievery rates, most times hitting for gold isn't lucrative, ( especially in the upper echelons of the game) since the risk - reward isn't worth it. A player can sit and make a nice profit selling buffs risk free.


The board works, IF it is used. Players don't use it, that's the issue.( see evilbry's thread) The mechanics of the board work fine.

As for removing protection driving players away from the game, how do you know that for certain? Because players will stomp and cry bloody murder? Read the forums, it happens on almost every update that hcs releases. Negativity and threats of exodus if players don;t get their own way.

[hbklives]

12 fsp from selling buffs, 12 buffs x 30 stam ( approximately) each = 360 stam. Not sure where you are getting the 1200 stam from? You sell buffs cheaper then stam cost, that's your choice

Even at that, I mean selling a little bit under stamina cost wouldn't be that much..

[Maehdros]

I could assume pvp protection is why the market place has risen, if I was so bold lol. Players sitting on millions of gold, with multiple listings of 200k+ per fsp , inflating the market, and snatching up any listings higher then their own, risk free of losing anything due to a pvp hit .

[yotekiller]

MP is at 220K right now. :shock:

[lordthade]

PvP Protection is keeping the market DOWN, if anything.

People (like me) will buy the gold that's otherwise just sitting there and price it lower or bank it. Without that, the unprotected sellers will just be more desperate and place the sales higher and higher.

Again, it's about the amount of FSPs out there. Not the gold. There's TONS of gold. The problem is getting people to let go of their FSPs, and it's not happening. Scavenging events, xp events, basically EVENTS are what it takes to get people to spend and spread it around. We've got a cadre of extremely wealthy players and the rest floating along scraping by and trying to upgrade (which sinks FSPs and removes more FSPs from the game).

Remember the mechanics of the market: players are enticing FSPs from players with FSPs by offering gold. Gold can the stolen. FSPs can not. The market will only continue to inflate as long as there's a lot more gold out there relative to FSPs. The market sinks back to relative normalcy when you have creatures that people actually want to farm in the caves. Why? Because those ultra-rich players are some of the biggest scavengers and they are willfully putting FSPs into the hands of other players buying gold or pushing gear around in the AH.

As for protection keeping people in the game, I can think of one person specifically (no, not me). ;-) I can also think of at least two that aren't playing now that couldn't afford protection. *shrugs* Keep it or remove it, you're right, it'll only lead to more complaining. :?

[yotekiller]

Bumping

[Windbattle]

I agree, despite not wanting to lose my precious gold !!!

Lordthade, that was a complex response to the OP's suggestion. However, there will always be wealthy players / merchants with 1000's of FSP that only look to keep building that wealth / occasionally getting upgrades.

MP prices are going to continue to rise ... just the way it is. Unless the cows increase the drop rate in the caves / put better potions in there. Currently, it takes 10M or more gold to make a profit in the caves. if you have less than that, more often then not, your going to lose money.