150 replies to this topic

[andyvince]

Hide Top 100.
Hide pregression bar for each Tier, just say: "Gold Tier Acquired".

I was just thinking of the similar thing; let’s just hide progression bar all together until event ended. Then less likely some players look at the tier community going to reach and just do the minimum in the last few hours.

 

In fact, let’s keep the personal qualified tier unknown, or rather unset when the event started. As each tier for total community are reached, a new personal qualified kills requirement would be set (but still hidden) and would increase if total community kills (in term of tiers reached) increases. Perhaps this would push more players keep going in ‘Better kill more than required than missed out the top reward for not killing enough’ kind of way...

Edited by andyvince, 25 February 2015 - 12:56.

[Yuuzhan]

Dont hide the lists - people like them.

 

However instead of 101 to 250 based rewards (where users could theoretically spend 50k stam and fall short) - do kill based reward.

 

5k is currently minimum, so how about 50k kills gives you 1 ruby chest.  I would even be ok with you doing the following:

at least 10k guarantees 1 jigsaw box

at least 20k guarantees 1 rusted box

at least 30k guarantees 1 decorated box

at least 40k guarantees 1 crystalline box

at least 50k guarantees 1 ruby box

 

(if you get 50k, you dont get one of each, just 1 ruby box)

 

This will encourage someone to say "Yea, I will send 20k kills to get something as a thanks" instead of "I get nothing different if I spend 5k stam or enough stam to place 101st".  Keep the top 100 awards, because I think people have fun trying to snipe the top 100 (and like getting Two extra ruby boxes).

 

I would even be OK with you get the stam based awards if you are not in top 100, otherwise you get top 100 awards.  That means if you spend 20k stam and are in the top 100, you get 2 ruby boxes, and no extra rusted box.

[Yuuzhan]

And I wanted this to be a seperate post.

 

By no means lower the kills required.  We had enough stam to do it, just not enough intensive for some players to run.  If the community refuses to pull together, then we dont deserve ruby.  period.  none of this "oh lower the ruby because its tooo haaaaaarrrdd".  Put in the work, get the reward.

 

But with an online count hovering around 500, and assuming that all active players are not active 24/7 I would assume that there is at least 4 times that number of active people.  With a light 10k stamina donated by 2000 people that would be 20,000,000 kills.  Even if there is only 1500 people that would be 15 million kills if people only donated 10k staminna.  And looking at the top 100 list donating 5,751,724 kills, that would easily get us to ruby (assuming only 100 people got to top 100, and everyone else only donated 10k stamina)

 

If you think there is less then 2,000 players in this game at the moment, then the question is not "Should we lower the tiers" but "how do we get people to revive the game from death"

[Rocknoor]

Hide Top 100.
Hide pregression bar for each Tier, just say: "Gold Tier Acquired".

I respectfully disagree with hiding either the list or the progression bar.  People are goal oriented, if you don't show them what they need to get for the top 100 then only the large stam banks will make it. Smaller stam banks won't be able to plan strategy to get in the top 100 because they won't know what the target is and might go with one buff configuration instead of another. Globally the progression bar lets us know where we are in relation to the final goal.  It's important to have a target and be able to quantify the progress to that target instead of a nebulous "Gold Tier Acquired". 

[BadPenny]

Setting you up to fail? Not quite. The numbers for this event were the same as the Yeoman one last month which was obliterated. The numbers are fine. What we need is a little more incentive to get people to put more of their stam into the event.

I have no problem having a 101 to 250 prize as well. Maybe just one of the Ruby chests?

We could allow all the Global class creatures to drop a little gold to help with the repair costs, sure.

Not terrible sure about giving a level 25 creature level 100 XP (let alone 200) though we could consider a bit more than it is now. Maybe level 50 XP?

As for spreading the globals out, they are pretty much meant to run as frequently as is reasonable. Maybe one Potion Global every 3 months but the calls for the Frag globals are always fairly frequent.

Those of us that are always leveling and making guild pots need frags all the time.  I still have my chests from the Yeoman event, and now the 2 from this one, so the Potion Globals are good.  You're on the right track about frequency.  Frags should be at least monthly, every 2 weeks would be better, and bi-monthly for the Potions would be good, I think.  I can only speak for myself though.  We need some kind of variety for these things, though.  There's a lot of requests for something more than click click click.  Maybe a tiny prerequisite quest to gather parts to invent our weapon to kill them, or make them invisible like the Halloween spooks, and we have to invent (or buy) a (bound?) potion?  Does anybody think this will spark more interest?  Cuz that is what the problem was here... a lack of interest... and a lot of bored, unhappy campers, I think.  Well, not for me, I love globals, which is weird, because I hate hunting....

Edited by BadPenny, 25 February 2015 - 15:38.

[sweetlou]

Hide Top 100.
Hide pregression bar for each Tier, just say: "Gold Tier Acquired".

I say for myself, I hunted a Kojin in the before the end, lefting me 5k stamina to burn. I didn't burned it on GE, just because I knew I would nnot reach Top 100, I saw the community far from Ruby.

So why would I bother to do even more kills? (I did 8500 kills at the first day already).

I believe a LOT of players think that way, give a try to an event without showing Top100/Progression Bar, make it on a small Frag Event. I believe the activity will be raised.

I will agree, at times too much information doesn't help. Allow players' competitive nature run it's course. It is similar to how bounties don't tell you who is on it or at what attack they are at. It's also like cloak. You may infer what the stats are by the bonuses and active skills but you never really know.....

[sweetlou]

If you think there is less then 2,000 players in this game at the moment, then the question is not "Should we lower the tiers" but "how do we get people to revive the game from death"

It's a great question. Stopping unauthorized scripts is one of the answers.

[Morgwyn]

Could Grim or Hoof tell me why the frag stashes are bound? It could motivate players to make more kills during these GE's.

I really see no harm in making those sellable. Personally I think it would only be good for the ingame economy.

[BadPenny]

The cows don't need to explain why these are bound... GE's aren't designed for us to profit.  They are designed to promote teamwork and to help us get things we need to level ourselves and our composing.  Yeah, our economy needs a good shot in the arn, but frag stashes won't fix that.  

 

 

Gear drops need to be valuable again.... It's those buffs that make good common items, quest rewards, and the like obsolete.  Maybe some new stat increasing buffs that don't rely upon sets or set pieces worn could help this, idk.... buff ideas are for another thread of course. 

[Mister Doom]

I suggested hiding the top 100 list till the event finished a while back, Grim said he was going to discuss it with Hoofmaster.

 

So either they forgot about it, which is fair I guess, they have a lot on their plate and every single idea on the forum can't be expected to be remembered. Or, they discussed it and discarded it...

 

I sincerely hope it was the former, removing the top list till an event ends and you make people do their utmost, to sweat and cross their fingers. There will be noone able to simply do the 'bare minimum' by watching the top 100 lists anymore.

 

Sure they can get a reference point from previous similar events, however the globals never end the same as they did previously, different players have different amounts of stam / different amounts of stam available.

 

I say hide them, make players competitive instinct kick in, make people want to try harder, upgrade their character more so they can put in as much effort as possible. All of this *catering to the lazy and un-upgraded* is mollycoddling at it's very worst and DOES NOT benefit the game.

[leefylee]

finish them on a weekend when more people are around for the final push, not on a midweek day afternoon while most are at work or school

[Morgwyn]

The cows don't need to explain why these are bound... GE's aren't designed for us to profit.  They are designed to promote teamwork and to help us get things we need to level ourselves and our composing.  Yeah, our economy needs a good shot in the arn, but frag stashes won't fix that.  

 

 

Gear drops need to be valuable again.... It's those buffs that make good common items, quest rewards, and the like obsolete.  Maybe some new stat increasing buffs that don't rely upon sets or set pieces worn could help this, idk.... buff ideas are for another thread of course. 

 

Ofcourse they do not need to explain, but that does not mean I cannot ask. Teamwork goes smoother if additional personal advantages are to be gained. Just human nature.

And it won't hurt if they are not bound. Not saying it solves all problems, that is your conclusion. It helps and does not hurt. That is all I am saying.

 

Gear drops being valuable again is a dream I am afraid. All decisions made in the last years, all pointed to wanting to make gear cheaper so it would be accesible to all.

 

[BadPenny]

Sorry, but making these stash drops saleable wouldn't help the economy, and it won't really be an incentive to the people who need one most.  It would only add new unsavory characters to the mix, and while they got richer, the rest of us would get poorer.  Frag stashes are frags, and you can't sell frags, anymore than you can sell the potions we make from them. Profit was never the idea behind composing, and it shouldn't be for the events, either.  If people can't (or won't) get motivated for these events, dangling profits in their faces isn't the answer.  At least not for most of us.  You say this is human nature... well, last time I looked, I was human... I am not motivated by profit when I play a game.  I'm motivated by challenge and fascination.  These events lack something to spark more interest, I will agree, but the ability to make money from them is not that thing.  

 

Bound items are bound to keep them low in price and available for all.  They are not designed to help the economy.  Neither is anything from a global event.  I'm sorry, if selfish people want to profit from a global event, let 'em sell buffs  (and God, please let's not have people selling "best place to hunt globals" locations, that's just underhanded and mean). The cow gods made bound items for a reason, they should remain bound.  

[Grimwald]

I want to make two points. If an player with 20k max stamina spends 5.000 stamina on a event and gets two chests, his chests will be worth 40.000 stamina of extra gains (more xp, big AM etc). But when an player with an max of 1k stamina spends the same 5.000 stamina on a event he will also gets two chests which will be worth 2.000 stamina of extra gains. The ROI (return on Investment) for lower max stamina players is way lower.

 

What I suggest is that for every 100 kills made, you will get 1 token. And with this token you can buy buffs. Make it rather low level buffs, but they will last for a long time, lets say 3h or so. So, an AL200 for 3h. (think about the levelling packs you can buy with GvG tokens??!)  But now comes the neat part, the price of the buffs depend on your current stamina. So, if you have less then 1000 current stamina it will cost you 1 token, do you have 2000 current stamina it will cost 2 tokens. Ofcourse buffs are cast instantly, but you can store your tokens. The tokens are not tradeable. Ofcourse AL200 might be excessive, but I think it should be above the buffs normally casted.  

 

The player from 20k max stamina who only does the 5.000 kills will have to do four globals, to get ONE full stamina hunt with the AL200, but the 1000 max stamina player can have 50 hunts, or 25 hunts with AL200/LIB200 or whatever option available.

Edited by Grimwald, 25 February 2015 - 18:59.

[Morgwyn]

Sorry, but making these stash drops saleable wouldn't help the economy, and it won't really be an incentive to the people who need one most.  It would only add new unsavory characters to the mix, and while they got richer, the rest of us would get poorer.  Frag stashes are frags, and you can't sell frags, anymore than you can sell the potions we make from them. Profit was never the idea behind composing, and it shouldn't be for the events, either.  If people can't (or won't) get motivated for these events, dangling profits in their faces isn't the answer.  At least not for most of us.  You say this is human nature... well, last time I looked, I was human... I am not motivated by profit when I play a game.  I'm motivated by challenge and fascination.  These events lack something to spark more interest, I will agree, but the ability to make money from them is not that thing.  

 

Bound items are bound to keep them low in price and available for all.  They are not designed to help the economy.  Neither is anything from a global event.  I'm sorry, if selfish people want to profit from a global event, let 'em sell buffs  (and God, please let's not have people selling "best place to hunt globals" locations, that's just underhanded and mean). The cow gods made bound items for a reason, they should remain bound.  

 

It will help the lower level players. Like it does them now when they farm commons. It is really not different than that.

A lot of things in this game were not made with making a profit in mind, yet we have a buff market these days...

It's just how things go and evolve.

For you it may not be a motivation, but I bet there are many players out there that cannot buy fsp. For those it is an opportunity.

 

If you make the stashes unbound, then it chances nothing to the availability. If they are bound you have 2 choices, you use them or drop them. If they are unbound,  you can use them, drop them or sell them. Which in fact increases the availability, and the prices won't be that enormous, so exploiting them will be hard. (once it is cheaper to just buy a few commons, you won't buy the stash).

 

Indeed they made them bound for some reason, and all I am asking is why. And so far I have not heard anything that is well founded to do so.

It prolly would not be interesting anyways to be exclusively farming them, a regular hunt I'd "profit" from more. 

[Pardoux]

  Frag stashes are frags, and you can't sell frags, anymore than you can sell the potions we make from them. Profit was never the idea behind composing, 

 

Personal profit, you're right, wasn't the idea behind composing, but you CAN sell the potions ...

 

All the composer has to do (like several DO do) is go on a guild tour, they make the potions, tag them, collect the payment and move on to the next guild. Kinda like the old tinkers used to do.

 

It's a loophole, and a clever loophole, and one I applauded as creative when it was first launched, but now I'm not so sure

[yotwehc]

It will help the lower level players. Like it does them now when they farm commons. It is really not different than that.
A lot of things in this game were not made with making a profit in mind, yet we have a buff market these days...
It's just how things go and evolve.
For you it may not be a motivation, but I bet there are many players out there that cannot buy fsp. For those it is an opportunity.

If you make the stashes unbound, then it chances nothing to the availability. If they are bound you have 2 choices, you use them or drop them. If they are unbound, you can use them, drop them or sell them. Which in fact increases the availability, and the prices won't be that enormous, so exploiting them will be hard. (once it is cheaper to just buy a few commons, you won't buy the stash).

Indeed they made them bound for some reason, and all I am asking is why. And so far I have not heard anything that is well founded to do so.
It prolly would not be interesting anyways to be exclusively farming them, a regular hunt I'd "profit" from more.

Unbounding Would significantly drop the prices. I would probably stop buying or buy at a much lower price. That's the biggest negative I see. Supply and demand. Suddenly the supply would be huge.

[leefylee]

people will always try and find a loophole for personal profit..

if i were the cows i would make traveling potion makers have to stay in a guild for at least 7 days before they can make guild tagged potions..

titan hunters cant join a guild and hunt within 7 days of joining, so i cant see why potion makers are allowed to profit while guild hopping

[Pardoux]

people will always try and find a loophole for personal profit..

if i were the cows i would make traveling potion makers have to stay in a guild for at least 7 days before they can make guild tagged potions..

titan hunters cant join a guild and hunt within 7 days of joining, so i cant see why potion makers are allowed to profit while guild hopping

 

Yeah, good idea

[BadPenny]

people will always try and find a loophole for personal profit..

if i were the cows i would make traveling potion makers have to stay in a guild for at least 7 days before they can make guild tagged potions..

titan hunters cant join a guild and hunt within 7 days of joining, so i cant see why potion makers are allowed to profit while guild hopping

  I agree wholeheartedly.  It's the same with GvGs, too.  You can't participate in a GvG until you've been in a guild for so long (I think) Composing for a guild should be the same....