HI there, great idea, should be a lot of fun. I think someone did mention this but I was wondering if your point values for various elites, super elites, legendaries and the like would vary by the level of the item? I wouldn't think that a Golden Cockatrice Armor, for example, should be the same value as a Skull Carver or Dreadlord Not that people will necessarily be sacrificing those items, but that's just an example. Look forward to having some fun with this new addition.
Composing
Started by Leos3000, Sep 17 2012 00:27
110 replies to this topic
#62
Posted 29 September 2012 - 00:55
I like the idea. I agree that gold should be left out. The gold sink in the caves may increase from people finding value in gear scavenged again. If they want to increase the gold being sunk just pump up the LE creatures in the caves.
I am excited to see this implemented. But please be patient at first. How many things have been introduced and did not need tweaking. The refining of the composing factor should be fun to be involved.
I am excited to see this implemented. But please be patient at first. How many things have been introduced and did not need tweaking. The refining of the composing factor should be fun to be involved.
#63
Posted 29 September 2012 - 01:29
-1 to the OP. Am I allowed to post such negativity?
Negativity! Tis not allowed in FS.
#64
Posted 29 September 2012 - 01:46
First of all I hope HCS will give this idea a good long thought before deciding to implement it. It’s a major modifier of market and other aspects of the game and should not be taken lightly.
To the point, there is no real problem of a flood of items or a need for an item sink as Leos and Hades suggest (if I understood correctly). Unused items are eventually lost or dropped by players, not to mention many that are used in recipes (which btw, is almost the same as this idea just better because it does not target all items indiscriminately). This process takes some time, but it works like a charm. We saw it happen with many older items.
The real problem here is that lately we see a large drop in activity numbers. That is the reason for the current (temporary) abundance of items in market and their low prices. That same thing exactly happened is SS2 before the bitter end.
I believe that the implementation of this idea as it is presented here will make things even worse. It will serve mostly the interests of the rich high-end players on the expense of the weaker low-level ones. This by itself is more than a good reason why to reject this idea.
I would like to mention just few problems that come to mind:
1) Items used for hunting that were affordable to most players will become too expensive to purchase. This will make hunting difficult for players that are not buying tons of FSPs or that belong to small guilds.
2) Potions that were used before to enable lower level players to get some FSP inside the game will become obsolete and that will cripple the entire farmer community. A much better idea will be to create the new potions from resources as before, but to make some of these resources bound. That will force potters to go and farm themselves, or leave that business to those who are willing to spend their stam and time in exchange for FSP like low-level players who badly need these FSPs.
3) Elites places will be stuffed with high-level players trying to make new epics and that will prevent people from finishing their quests.
Finally, I’d like to point here that a large and self-sustainable community of “free users” in this game is not just an inconvenience. This community is what’s fueling this game and keeps it alive. Without it there will be no newcomers to replace those who drop or to enlarge the circle of fans (and thus donors) and to generally make this game more exciting for everyone. We will be left with few high-level ‘paying’ players that slowly but surely will loose interest, and eventually this game will die exactly as it happened in SS2.
Thank you for reading.
kokorog.
To the point, there is no real problem of a flood of items or a need for an item sink as Leos and Hades suggest (if I understood correctly). Unused items are eventually lost or dropped by players, not to mention many that are used in recipes (which btw, is almost the same as this idea just better because it does not target all items indiscriminately). This process takes some time, but it works like a charm. We saw it happen with many older items.
The real problem here is that lately we see a large drop in activity numbers. That is the reason for the current (temporary) abundance of items in market and their low prices. That same thing exactly happened is SS2 before the bitter end.
I believe that the implementation of this idea as it is presented here will make things even worse. It will serve mostly the interests of the rich high-end players on the expense of the weaker low-level ones. This by itself is more than a good reason why to reject this idea.
I would like to mention just few problems that come to mind:
1) Items used for hunting that were affordable to most players will become too expensive to purchase. This will make hunting difficult for players that are not buying tons of FSPs or that belong to small guilds.
2) Potions that were used before to enable lower level players to get some FSP inside the game will become obsolete and that will cripple the entire farmer community. A much better idea will be to create the new potions from resources as before, but to make some of these resources bound. That will force potters to go and farm themselves, or leave that business to those who are willing to spend their stam and time in exchange for FSP like low-level players who badly need these FSPs.
3) Elites places will be stuffed with high-level players trying to make new epics and that will prevent people from finishing their quests.
Finally, I’d like to point here that a large and self-sustainable community of “free users” in this game is not just an inconvenience. This community is what’s fueling this game and keeps it alive. Without it there will be no newcomers to replace those who drop or to enlarge the circle of fans (and thus donors) and to generally make this game more exciting for everyone. We will be left with few high-level ‘paying’ players that slowly but surely will loose interest, and eventually this game will die exactly as it happened in SS2.
Thank you for reading.
kokorog.
#65
Posted 29 September 2012 - 02:10
im agree with the idea...but could be fair for all the players that the pots have to be bound, if u want it u have to create it.. or put a limit in the number of items for a day maybe 10 each day and u can save them until u have the necesary to create what u want
#66
Posted 29 September 2012 - 03:05
To the point, there is no real problem of a flood of items or a need for an item sink as Leos and Hades suggest (if I understood correctly). Unused items are eventually lost or dropped by players, not to mention many that are used in recipes (which btw, is almost the same as this idea just better because it does not target all items indiscriminately). This process takes some time, but it works like a charm. We saw it happen with many older items.
The real problem here is that lately we see a large drop in activity numbers. That is the reason for the current (temporary) abundance of items in market and their low prices. That same thing exactly happened is SS2 before the bitter end.
Lol
#67
Posted 29 September 2012 - 03:49
Thank you for reading.
kokorog.
Hopefully they will. I appreciate your concern for lower level players... but... I disagree. Perhaps leo and hades *hugs and kisses (instead of numbers)* didn't really lay out in easy-to-read terms what "their" idea was... but let's go at it... What I understood the idea to be is that this would be an initiative to "make" HCS more proactive in the access to "some" of the items involved. In other words... the whining about DECREASES in prices due to flooding (which I always found to be ridiculous because players are trying to make a buck by holding items forever and hoping to make a profit and then whining because their "investment" (some stam) didn't pay out in FSP) might be reduced because there is now another option. Hence, HCS could avoid greedy player discontent at flooding because they now have another end source for their items.
First, comments on "low activity"... yeah, that's not what this post is about. Agree, whatever... how about we move on.
You see no need for item sink. Okay, let's NOT debate that idea. This still doesn't invalidate the idea even if we were to start from scratch.
As far as items used in recipes... uh... yeah, they're used in recipes... so... would they be used in the Cauldron?
"1) Items used for hunting that were affordable to most players will become too expensive to purchase. This will make hunting difficult for players that are not buying tons of FSPs or that belong to small guilds."
Why? I think you're just wrong. Period. We could go into a long discussion on this, but... short version. Items that are valuable for hunting won't be used in the Cauldron. Why? Because their price is higher in the AH. I'm really curious here to know exactly what items you're talking about. But why bother?
In short... hunting is not difficult. Period. However, if you want to be the "best"... whatever the heck that means to you... then pay for it. I'm sorry that it sounds hardcore... but get over it. The only thing that has a cost in this game is what you "want". You decide what you are willing to pay to get it... and you have zero need to.
"2" Well, as far as your comment on potions... I'd really have to look at the suggestions made here. From memory (I could definitely be wrong here as I didn't pay too much attention)... I think the suggestions made would not affect anything currently. I think you need to compare to current farming and then keep in mind the costs involved in making the new pots that are actually suggested in this post. Few of the new pots suggested are really for "lower level" players and I "think" few conflict in a major way with other pots out there. In fact... just from what I remember... most of the pots seem to incur in profits made from higher level buffs... My first impression is that the higher levels would disagree with them because it would cut into the profits they make on buff sales... Cleverly... it gives them something to do.
"3) Elites places will be stuffed with high-level players trying to make new epics and that will prevent people from finishing their quests."
This idea is just silly. I hope that's not too offensive... but hey, are you serious? Could you tell me exactly which Elite would be specifically overrun by high level players out of the hundreds that exist?
What is the basis of this idea is a "new" thing for players to do... you have to think outside the box. In my five years in this game, there are tons of things that HCS has done (or not done) that I didn't like. That said... the majority of my frustration in this game has come from the fact that players don't think. The attitude is always "me, me, me" or "my way only"... and that type of attitude is exactly what they end up complaining about. The FS community at large is lazy and wants things easy. FS players need to realize that things like the scavenging caves which "costs tons of golds" or are "only for the rich players" end up benefiting everyone because of the gold sinks which reduce FSP costs. There are so many examples I could vomit up... but anyway...
How I have taken (and perhaps twisted) this idea... is that it could revive the game for a lot of people. Higher levels could go after Elites whose items nobody cares about.. or... in a worst case scenario... use their stam on inane endeavors which, at least, wouldn't get more gold into the game.
koko (and FS community at large)... if you are seriously concerned about "high-level players losing interest"... then maybe you should be more active in working for "them" instead of yourselves. You WILL be there someday.... or you will be just another inactive account amidst so many. Though I have here said that I don't agree with a lot of things HCS has done... I have often defended them... And here I will once again repeat... that it can't be an easy job to implement a gold sink that players will accept. I hope this is one.
To sign off... koko... I hope you don't take this personally... I really like the fact that you are looking out for FS players and I think your attitude is positive. I only used your post because I thought it dealt with a lot of stuff people somehow seem to skip over.
That said. I'm not a player that has spent "tons" of money on this game. However, I AM sick of all the players in this game that complain about others paying their way to the top. I'm not going to go with the typical... "this game is NOT free"... rant. I'll let you use your own brain by asking you if RL is any different. Then I'll tell you to get over it. Prosperous smacking! -E
#68
Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:25
Some people were saying to have an item per day limit, but most people didnt agree.. maybe have a certain point limit per day that you can deposit, or a certain number of each tier you can deposit per day, to prevent people from abusing the system by farming all day?
#69
Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:04
you saying more activity on farming elites is abusing ? :roll: it costs lots of stamina and time to farm elites and much harder than farming in LE's events not to mention it will increase players activity on elite maps which wont give certain players an easy farmSome people were saying to have an item per day limit, but most people didnt agree.. maybe have a certain point limit per day that you can deposit, or a certain number of each tier you can deposit per day, to prevent people from abusing the system by farming all day?
Don't forget game getting so boring recently and more players going inactive.. something to do is good
#70
Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:09
To anyone complain about large Bp players ...whats the point of of upgrading it then ?? seriously it cost lots of fsps to upgrade it, so if you cant upgrade yours dont complain about upgraded players having better advantage with large bp
Composing will give low upgraded players chance to earn some fsps to upgrade their characters and continue playing.
Composing will give low upgraded players chance to earn some fsps to upgrade their characters and continue playing.
#71
Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:31
this thread is slowly being derailed by all the nay sayers the fact is we have too much gear in the game we need it gone this way will help solve that. does the stuff produced need to be bound in a word no why would it, ppl will farm like they always do so after they make a few bound pots what they ment to do with the flood of items left oh add them to the ah and we still have the problem ...so ppl buy up all the cheap stuff they can and make pots and sell them, thats what you want for 1 all gear is gone for 2 you can buy pots you need or still make ur own..it will be a new way all players can make some fsp as for farming elites go ahead there alot harder to get then farming LE when there around seeing they have the lowest point value spawn around every 10 mins and drop rate isnt that great either would take you a long time to build up ur points
#72
Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:48
Really is no point to this players with huge bp's will just hold gear while those who need space will use it and get left with space and no gear.
But then they will have guild tagged gear to fall back on. so it is really pointless removing gear .
Also given the existing game population is also able to buy gear cheaply in the ah now.
But once this is implemented once again those championing this will be buying out cheap gear throughout the ah that gives the best value.
Giving potions or gear as rewards for doing something like this will detract from donations to the game given the recent rewards from global events.
But then they will have guild tagged gear to fall back on. so it is really pointless removing gear .
Also given the existing game population is also able to buy gear cheaply in the ah now.
But once this is implemented once again those championing this will be buying out cheap gear throughout the ah that gives the best value.
Giving potions or gear as rewards for doing something like this will detract from donations to the game given the recent rewards from global events.
#73
Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:59
I dont see the need. On the contrary having affordable crystal gear in AH is a good thing imho. But those with large bp that want easy payback for the bp they bought may like it. No doubt they want Dawn Chomper items back at 20fps a piece instead of 2 for instance. Tough luck for them. No reason to introduce uber pots for just some stam like there was a qc going all the time.
The elite's that would get hunted are the ones in the small realms. Those are at low lvl so (hopefully) there will be quite a few needed for players doing the quests. Would hate to see low lvl players say "@#$% EoC is player is killing elite that i need for my quest all the time"
Dont see connection between with having events. Why cant we just have a chomper event, a LE event and a qc event every three months?
On a side note, when you use a cauldron why on earth call it composing? Smelting would be much more appropriate
P.S. the fact that i'm not jumping for joy over this idea doesnt mean i'm derailing the thread does it?
The elite's that would get hunted are the ones in the small realms. Those are at low lvl so (hopefully) there will be quite a few needed for players doing the quests. Would hate to see low lvl players say "@#$% EoC is player is killing elite that i need for my quest all the time"
Dont see connection between with having events. Why cant we just have a chomper event, a LE event and a qc event every three months?
On a side note, when you use a cauldron why on earth call it composing? Smelting would be much more appropriate
P.S. the fact that i'm not jumping for joy over this idea doesnt mean i'm derailing the thread does it?
#75
Posted 29 September 2012 - 15:04
Okay, I see alot of people complaining about people with big backpacks (I consider mine small at 191 but, that's just me). Yet I have no issues with others who have larger bp packs and think that it would have little impact on the new idea. If they got the room and excess gear, let them be, brew away.
The idea is to rid ourselves of gear in the game that has become too much. Seems like the Elite thing of gear dumping has become an issue, then restrict it to 1 or 2 pieces of elite gear per day (or have champ sets count in the same way), leave the rest be. Let people dump as much LE, SE or crystal gear as they want to (epics too if they like). We have a ton of legendary gear that is now useless (and some crystalline stuff too). There is also SE gear that is no longer used so, we can rid the game of it.
Anything that would make the game more intresting (especially for EoC players) should not be frowned upon.
If there is an issue with the epic item being given out, then make it a chest you have a chance to get (with a 2 buffs per potion from the chest, X different pots to choose from). Nothing too powerful (let's not take away from the global event chests or rewards from donations).
Seems like bound or non-bound has come up alot too so, I'll be point blank honest. I would be doing this for the potions for myself and, not to sell. However, perhaps some pots should be bound (if the epic chest idea is good, then those should be bound). Maybe have some bound to the player and, some non-bound.
Chest potion ideas (120 mins each):
Improved Epic Stalker: Stalker L200, Reckoning L200
Improved Epic Farmer: Resource Finder L300, Extractor 2 L225
Improved Epic Finder: Find Item L1200, Four Leaf L300
Improved Epic Hunter: Dblr. 1400, Adept learner L250
Improved Epic B. Hunter: Terrorize L500, Undermine L200
Improved Epic protector: Coord Def L250, Smite L250
Just some ideas to throw around. Nothing too powerful (2 buffs bper potion of choice) and, stuff that isn't in the game already.
The idea is to rid ourselves of gear in the game that has become too much. Seems like the Elite thing of gear dumping has become an issue, then restrict it to 1 or 2 pieces of elite gear per day (or have champ sets count in the same way), leave the rest be. Let people dump as much LE, SE or crystal gear as they want to (epics too if they like). We have a ton of legendary gear that is now useless (and some crystalline stuff too). There is also SE gear that is no longer used so, we can rid the game of it.
Anything that would make the game more intresting (especially for EoC players) should not be frowned upon.
If there is an issue with the epic item being given out, then make it a chest you have a chance to get (with a 2 buffs per potion from the chest, X different pots to choose from). Nothing too powerful (let's not take away from the global event chests or rewards from donations).
Seems like bound or non-bound has come up alot too so, I'll be point blank honest. I would be doing this for the potions for myself and, not to sell. However, perhaps some pots should be bound (if the epic chest idea is good, then those should be bound). Maybe have some bound to the player and, some non-bound.
Chest potion ideas (120 mins each):
Improved Epic Stalker: Stalker L200, Reckoning L200
Improved Epic Farmer: Resource Finder L300, Extractor 2 L225
Improved Epic Finder: Find Item L1200, Four Leaf L300
Improved Epic Hunter: Dblr. 1400, Adept learner L250
Improved Epic B. Hunter: Terrorize L500, Undermine L200
Improved Epic protector: Coord Def L250, Smite L250
Just some ideas to throw around. Nothing too powerful (2 buffs bper potion of choice) and, stuff that isn't in the game already.
#76
Posted 29 September 2012 - 15:09
If this idea is implemented:
1) This should be at a fixed location either in the Cathedral or beside Grot Snots Stolenz
2) Elite and SE items should only be added if the complete set is deposited. It would be WAAY too easy to pad your totals farming stuff like Infernus, Frostbite, or any of the Scavenging sets. On the SE market, Deathspinner and Minos would be too easy as well. That or HCS should consider altering the classification of some of these creatures/equipment.
3)Having a really nice prize like the epic boots is still a good idea, but the chance should be VERY small to obtain and if all the items received were bound, including the potions, this would limit some abuse of this system
1) This should be at a fixed location either in the Cathedral or beside Grot Snots Stolenz
2) Elite and SE items should only be added if the complete set is deposited. It would be WAAY too easy to pad your totals farming stuff like Infernus, Frostbite, or any of the Scavenging sets. On the SE market, Deathspinner and Minos would be too easy as well. That or HCS should consider altering the classification of some of these creatures/equipment.
3)Having a really nice prize like the epic boots is still a good idea, but the chance should be VERY small to obtain and if all the items received were bound, including the potions, this would limit some abuse of this system
#77
Posted 29 September 2012 - 15:27
Hey, complete Elite and SE sets is a great idea (complete champ sets too if people like, jury is out on that one). That would surely put a kink in some players doing stuff like padding their possibilities by farming solo elitedrops. Or, if people think it's too much, just the Elite full sets, either which way, a good point.
As for having it as a fixed location, yes. I agree on this one, people would then need to use stam to get to the location to do the brewing.
Epic item boots (reduced rate is a good idea). Maybe have a fixed percentage of an epic thing (low for an item like boots and, higher for an epic chest?).
Glad to see alot of people onboard for this idea and, alot of great input has been made to help it along. I have to admit, I am usually against some of the things HCS has suggested (and have done in the past) but, this one.....this one could be a great thing for the game, better then the idea of titans and global events to help boost player's to start playing again.
As for having it as a fixed location, yes. I agree on this one, people would then need to use stam to get to the location to do the brewing.
Epic item boots (reduced rate is a good idea). Maybe have a fixed percentage of an epic thing (low for an item like boots and, higher for an epic chest?).
Glad to see alot of people onboard for this idea and, alot of great input has been made to help it along. I have to admit, I am usually against some of the things HCS has suggested (and have done in the past) but, this one.....this one could be a great thing for the game, better then the idea of titans and global events to help boost player's to start playing again.
#78
Posted 29 September 2012 - 15:57
HCS have posted a similar idea sometime ago.
The ability to extract Gems from gear. Instead of getting new pots or new gear, why not give the ability to melt down old gear to extract gems from them. These gems can be attached to any gear of choice. Up to 3 gems can be attached to an item and cannot be removed. Once a gem is attached to an item, the item will get a certain boost. Could be x% to a certain enhancement. Could be x% to a certain stat. Could even be xp gain or stam gain.
The quality of the gem you would get depends on the value of the item you melt. So if you melt down an epic, you are most likely to get a stam gain gem. An LE item would probably get you certain boost to some enhancemnt. Etc...
But, once an item has a gem attached to it, it becomes bound. Only thing you can do to it is melt it. And the quality of gems and number of gems on it would give higher probability to get a better gem from it.
Also note that craft and forge level affect the probability of getting a better gem.
Examples:
You melt down a P/FF argus armor, you have the following possibilities:
20% you get nothing
40% you get gem with +30% duelist
40% you get gem with +2% attack
You melt down poor no forge argus armor:
40% you get nothing
40% you get gem with +10% duelist
20% you get gem with 1% attack
You melt down P/FF ring of red death:
10% you get nothing
30% you get gem with +5% damage
30% you get gem with 30% to all enhancements
20% you get gem with 500xp gain
10% you get gem with +2 stam gain
You melt down some Unique boots:
50% you get nothing
30% you get gem with +5% Dodge
20% you get gem with +10% Dodge
The ability to extract Gems from gear. Instead of getting new pots or new gear, why not give the ability to melt down old gear to extract gems from them. These gems can be attached to any gear of choice. Up to 3 gems can be attached to an item and cannot be removed. Once a gem is attached to an item, the item will get a certain boost. Could be x% to a certain enhancement. Could be x% to a certain stat. Could even be xp gain or stam gain.
The quality of the gem you would get depends on the value of the item you melt. So if you melt down an epic, you are most likely to get a stam gain gem. An LE item would probably get you certain boost to some enhancemnt. Etc...
But, once an item has a gem attached to it, it becomes bound. Only thing you can do to it is melt it. And the quality of gems and number of gems on it would give higher probability to get a better gem from it.
Also note that craft and forge level affect the probability of getting a better gem.
Examples:
You melt down a P/FF argus armor, you have the following possibilities:
20% you get nothing
40% you get gem with +30% duelist
40% you get gem with +2% attack
You melt down poor no forge argus armor:
40% you get nothing
40% you get gem with +10% duelist
20% you get gem with 1% attack
You melt down P/FF ring of red death:
10% you get nothing
30% you get gem with +5% damage
30% you get gem with 30% to all enhancements
20% you get gem with 500xp gain
10% you get gem with +2 stam gain
You melt down some Unique boots:
50% you get nothing
30% you get gem with +5% Dodge
20% you get gem with +10% Dodge
#79
Posted 29 September 2012 - 17:37
hades youre telling everyone your agenda is to get rid of useless gear....if the pots are bound a higher % of players will participate = more gear destroyed. unless your agenda is something else?
i have 150 back pack slots and i could make a profit as good as anyone. unlike others my backpacks arent full of useless stuff i failed to make a profit off of and want an easy way out on.
i have 150 back pack slots and i could make a profit as good as anyone. unlike others my backpacks arent full of useless stuff i failed to make a profit off of and want an easy way out on.
#80
Posted 29 September 2012 - 18:23
hades youre telling everyone your agenda is to get rid of useless gear....if the pots are bound a higher % of players will participate = more gear destroyed. unless your agenda is something else?
i have 150 back pack slots and i could make a profit as good as anyone. unlike others my backpacks arent full of useless stuff i failed to make a profit off of and want an easy way out on.
i have no agenda except to maximise the amount of gear gone... how many bound pots can you use ? myself i lvl once every few months so after i make my couple pots what then the same can be said for many others when a event happens ppl farm no matter ur lvl u try get a set if u need it and a few spares for friends or with the hope of making a few fsp .. so when you have farmed ur few spare pieces and you realise you cant give them away let alone sell them so you scrap them in only to find you cant even sell the potion you made what then how does that help anyone .. i can guarentee you if they bound what is ever made from this it will fall flat on its face cause once everyone has there few pots you will still have tons of gear laying around collecting dust
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