70 replies to this topic

[RED]

You need something to drive the participation incentive! Why does PvP always get the short end of the stick when it comes to rewards? Arena, Titans, SEs even don't have bound items. Why does PvP deserve such indignation?

You got 50 players(average) here and they sit until close to a reset. same ole same ole////// Drop the first 5 places and give tokes for staying on top for a certain number of hours and maybe the rest of us will join in. Buttttt>>>>You guys won`t go for that, gotta do some hitting then actually.

[rowbeth]

Do I sound disillusioned at the moment ? - Hmm, perhaps that's because I am.

 

I guess if that is where you are at, then there's not a lot I can say. Only HCS' future efforts will really be able to change that.

 

I do know what you mean, but I guess that with the first content release in 3 months happening less than 5 days after return from holiday, I wasn't expecting this one to be innovative.

 

 

For the record, your hunt experience does sound like a lot I have had when everything was working properly. The common item is generally within the first few levels, which you just walked through; the drops from elites are not frequent (even with FI 1k, kill it 8 times and there is a 10% chance that you will have got nothing at all, so it is very hard to demonstrate it is not dropping); and I have frequently walked through levels, and taken a few detours looking for champs, but still missed at least two of them in during a 20 level hunt. (But I haven't done this last release yet, and so have no idea how big the realms are ..., so am really only hypothesising until someone else chimes in to confirm things one way or the other with solid info.)

 

Innovative content would be nice to see, but that must be hard after 2600 levels & 1000+ quests to keep coming up with new experiences.

 

I don't see much in the way of overpowered equipment at our level. Take away the buffs and I wouldn't be able to hunt at all. I do see very powerful buffs, but even with lots of those I still need DW W to activate 100% of the time to be able to hunt effectively at most levels.

 

I think the real issue to make hunts a bit more challenging is that as everything has got more powerful, the variation in creature stats has not increased nearly enough. As the baseline increases, the variance has to increase even more or everything begins to look similar, and a single strategy starts to work with everything.

Edited by rowbeth, 06 September 2015 - 20:32.

[Undjuvion]

There is no incentive to do a thing on the ladders until it is close to resets. Give more tokens for staying on top and take some of the places away(Top 3 get tokens) If you stay no 1 for 5 hours, give a token(example)

 

there is dominance ticks, that is pretty much the only reason i play, i hardly care at all for the tokens or rewards, they are nice but hardly a reason in my book, would be other players like me, i cant be alone

[sweetlou]

You got 50 players(average) here and they sit until close to a reset. same ole same ole////// Drop the first 5 places and give tokes for staying on top for a certain number of hours and maybe the rest of us will join in. Buttttt>>>>You guys won`t go for that, gotta do some hitting then actually.

YOU are blaming players for having a strategy that YOU don't like? I'm not surprised. You should realize that the winning reset comes randomly during a 24 hr period starting exactly 24 hours after the last reset. I think this resetting works pretty well. It gives all players a chance to come online hopefully at least once before any possible reset begins and allows them to buff up and start playing. The real complaint comes because of the stam required to actually play during the whole Ladder vs even the current rewards we have now. BigGrim espouses any good rewards to stay personally bound to the winners. I disagree with this thinking. Quality of the rewards are paramount to allure players into participation. Players can smell a waste of time and stam. Degrading the rewards promises the Ladder will automatically fail.

 

Look at the stam required in other aspects vs their rewards. In the troubled Arena 0 stam is required, it cost 1500 - ~50k gold to enter, and rewards are mostly found cheaper or easier to attain elsewhere. SEs are worthless! Titan Hunting is normally a group activity and only requires stam - a requirement that is minimized with ever increasing levels of Lightfoot, Teleport and Conserve pots. However the stam gain gear that continues to grow in amount retains significant value and therefore still has popularity. The stam gain gear, while a liability in defense, is still hugely popular because it adds a staple of the game to a players character - stam! Any future gear needs to keep this in mind.

[sweetlou]

Innovative content would be nice to see, but that must be hard after 2600 levels & 1000+ quests to keep coming up with new experiences.

 

I don't see much in the way of overpowered equipment at our level. Take away the buffs and I wouldn't be able to hunt at all. I do see very powerful buffs, but even with lots of those I still need DW to activate 100% of the time to be able to hunt effectively at most levels.

 

I think the real issue to make hunts a bit more challenging is that as everything has got more powerful, the variation in creature stats has not increased nearly enough. As the baseline increases, the variance has to increase even more or everything begins to look similar, and a single strategy starts to work with everything.

DW? Deathwish? Really? I hope you don't expect Conserve to activate!

 

And absolutely, innovative content is greatly needed!! If the developer who makes the content continues thinking inside the box, the result will remain the same. They are victims of their own earlier success. Grinding out the demand players have to level for 100s of updates, and its never enough, has left us where we are today, with seemingly cookie cut levels with very few exceptions. That demand is insatiable. It's why having side games that work are so important.

 

Formulas used for creating gear and monster stats have remained constant, the one  variable is the ever increasing buff strength that makes the need for any skill or thought to leveling unnecessary. It's boring!!! It's what starts players on the road to disenchantment. For the most part AM500 and champion leveling are what have led to this predicament. I remember a time when players actually needed to plan different sets to use during leveling. Damage has always been the dominant stat, but now with SSI, all you need are some easy to obtain pots. I'm always shaking my head when I think about where the game has gone. It's why I enjoy the interpersonal aspect of PvP, especially how crazy some people become.

[DomCorvis]

even with the new potions(which i enjoy very much), my stock pile of tokens and now the trophies from seasons give me little reason to burn thru 1-2 lvls a reset for the new stuff....granted once i run low on tokens i could see opting back in,and battling it out....but also have other goals too

[rowbeth]

DW? Deathwish? Really? I hope you don't expect Conserve to activate!

 

Typo - I meant "W" (wither)

 

And absolutely, innovative content is greatly needed!! If the developer who makes the content continues thinking inside the box, the result will remain the same. They are victims of their own earlier success. Grinding out the demand players have to level for 100s of updates, and its never enough, has left us where we are today, with seemingly cookie cut levels with very few exceptions. That demand is insatiable. It's why having side games that work are so important.

 

I don't disagree. I'm just not surprised it is difficult to keep producing after so long. As you say, victims of their earlier success.

 

Formulas used for creating gear and monster stats have remained constant, the one  variable is the ever increasing buff strength that makes the need for any skill or thought to leveling unnecessary. It's boring!!! It's what starts players on the road to disenchantment. For the most part AM500 and champion leveling are what have led to this predicament. I remember a time when players actually needed to plan different sets to use during leveling. Damage has always been the dominant stat, but now with SSI, all you need are some easy to obtain pots. I'm always shaking my head when I think about where the game has gone. It's why I enjoy the interpersonal aspect of PvP, especially how crazy some people become.

 

My point here was that the formulas have a build in variation, and if that that needs to grow much more rapidly as average stats increase in order to make a difference.

 

I don't see champ levelling as a major issue. It only gives 2 levels before you are better off moving on (though no doubt you can get a lot more using champs to re-level).

[BigGrim]

(looks like another batch of content where drops weren't switched on to me ??)

 

Incorrect. Drops ARE active. Check your drop preferences.

[Pardoux]

Incorrect. Drops ARE active. Check your drop preferences.

 

Drop preferences are the same as they always have been (keep all) so I guess that I, and the others who've contacted me were just unlucky in their multiple hits and didn't get a drop.

 

OK, guess it can happen

[Egami]

hun, can you please explain why you rewarded the season participants with 12 EPIC potions + PvP prestige pot + other items BUT refuse to put same equivalent rewards on the PvP ladder too?

 

I tend to like mary's posts and this quote is pretty much out of context, but it gives me some room for response:

 

Seasons are "currently" now on a course for "PvP GEs". Hence, there should be "some" extra reward there on a "GE reward" level. 

 

Personally, I argued that there should be little crossover between potions rewarded in the Ladder and those rewarded in Seasons and Arena. BG made a comment about durations being longer in Season rewards based on the GE aspect. I think that's reasonable.

 

Personally, the reason I argue against crossover is because I think some incentive to get involved in different game aspects should be respected. 

 

The luck buffs, in the case of deflect and dispel curse, similarly and unnecessarily add to how long it takes to play the game without any added skill beyond casting the buff. It's beyond aggravating and the rates of activation can certainly be reduced without harm to the game.

I like the "luck" buffs. I hated AntiDeflect. This does not mean that I don't "get" your frustration. 

 

It's simply a personal opinion. 

 

I'm guessing you concentrated on those two because of the high activation rate. 

 

Dispel Curse... There are ways around it.

 

Deflect. I always had the feeling this was implemented to protect FS Players that were so focused on the XP loss. On the ladder, I think it's fun. Let me explain: I hate it when it activates despite my AntiDeflect. I love it when it protects me. In my experience, we grumble and laugh on both sides. 

 

 

Formulas used for creating gear and monster stats have remained constant, the one  variable is the ever increasing buff strength that makes the need for any skill or thought to leveling unnecessary. It's boring!!! 

 

I mean, you argue a lot about the lack of variables in hunting... which I fully agree with. But when it comes to PvP, you appear to be arguing the exact opposite. Just a thought.

 

 

If you wish to see more participation you need to increase the amount of player that receive rewards, no one is going to play the ladder based on what it costs them when you dont reward them.

 

I didn't agree with anything else in the above post, but I did wonder about this part. 

 

Since the change, my ladder 1000-1499 has swung more or less between 3 to 10 participants.

 

I don't really have a constructive suggestion here since I know people are discussing the level issue. But looking at the 25 to 249 range... I'm thinking something needs to be done. Maybe the top five being added in would be useful (instead of the 3 limit). 

 

I might even suggest a "bonus" somehow for lower levels. I'm not sure that's even logical though.

 

 

why dont you guy make relams for pvp make them really hunt other players like lvlers do mods that make it fair

 

The realms for PvP begin at 0 at go currently to EOC.

 

Other "realms" for PvP are the Ladder and Arena. 

 

It's already fair, unlike leveling.

 

Your comment is interesting however. I'd like to see some mobs that fight back. Imagine mobs that hit you when you are defensive. Might get some players up there to move to unoccupied squares so those mobs don't hit them while they're in stam gear.

 

Geez, I see it now... Random mob smacks on players. If the player wins because they are properly equipped, they get XP and gold. If they lose... XP and gold loss. ,oP

 

This excuse gets trotted out all the time - real, on the same map, PvP killed SigmaStorm ... I call BS.

Yeah, I doubt that was the reason. The only conclusion we can reach via the SigmaStorm diatribe is that separating PvP into realms won't help FS. 

[Egami]

Sorry for posting twice... it told me I quoted too much, lol.

 

The ladder is a seperate part of this game (opt in/out), so WHY are the potions not being bound as they are for everything else????

 

Arena pots are not bound. 

 

This is what is wrong with PVP in this game. Cow has finally gotten something going here and now you guys want the "WORLD", It starts getting into every aspect of this game. I see 50 people on these ladders and that is about average, i see about as much activity as there was before and yet you want even more rewards. This is laughable. Now for these 50 to PROFIT from this from the whole community is even more laughable.

Hmmm... I agree with my disgust about the "me-me" attitude. I would hope you are as vociferous when it comes to leveling.

 

As far as "profit"... I think there is a rampant misuse of this word throughout the entire FS environment. Luis actually made a reference to it that I think is right on... but understanding what that means is complicated. 

 

What I have seen time and time again in this game (Ecofrog, where are you?!!!) is a lot of whiners complaining about people who do "things" and get FSP from it. In my experience, there is a huge lack of understanding. 

 

I'll hope to give some education here: I farm common frags. I spend around 3 to 4 hours every two to three days to give buyers common frags. For that service they pay me in FSP. 

 

Why? Because they think my service is worthwhile. They calculate what their stam and time is worth and they think I'm cheap based on that. 

 

As Luis suggested, there is no "profit". People whining about Traveling Composers really gets my goat. What I automatically assume is that those complaining are ignorant. I have contracted Traveling Composers for my Guild. It's a win, win. Whiners have no idea about cost. 

 

In short, if you are really complaining about it... why don't you simply do it yourself? 

 

And to get off my example and go back to your complaint: If it was truly profitable, why wouldn't you do it? There's nothing stopping you.

 

There is no incentive to do a thing on the ladders until it is close to resets.

Fully disagree. Unlike Seasons, there is no "end date"... A lot of my time spent on the ladder is at the very beginning to get increase my dominance medal.

 

give tokes for staying on top for a certain number of hours and maybe the rest of us will join in. 

 

The idea "might" be interesting. Without thinking too much, my first impression is that I wouldn't be entirely opposed. A tweak to dominance perhaps. 

 

Drop preferences are the same as they always have been (keep all) so I guess that I, and the others who've contacted me were just unlucky in their multiple hits and didn't get a drop.

 

OK, guess it can happen 

I wonder if that's tongue-in-cheek. I hope HCS checks it out with a test character. ,oP

 

Sends me back to my worries about levels 1600-1800 where some Content needs to be implemented on drops. Again, this is a "Content" comment.