149 replies to this topic

[BigGrim]

If I alter the formula for Champs stat generation, I'll apply it to all of them for consistency. It's just easier that way.

[Pardoux]

This is getting awfully convoluted and complicated to the original post I made.

 

 

Just ramping uo the stats of the "lesser" mercs by a factor of 5 or 10 would be sufficient I think ?

 

The multiple tavern idea (or similar) has been suggested before and is an idea that, in principle, is one I'm against as it favours those bigger guilds to get the best mercs more quickly, leaving the lesser ones for everyone else.

 

If, however, BG's "tier" idea is to have the same mercs in each tier, but each time with ramped up stats according to that tier, then HECK YES, go for it. One question remains there tho, if that's your thought BG - what would determine which band you will get for mercs ? - hiring player level ?  guild level ? average player level in guild ?

[cyrus7]

If, however, BG's "tier" idea is to have the same mercs in each tier, but each time with ramped up stats according to that tier, then HECK YES, go for it. One question remains there tho, if that's your thought BG - what would determine which band you will get for mercs ? - hiring player level ?  guild level ? average player level in guild ?

Maybe just a selection button/drop down box for desired "tier" (level range/stats) for the mercs you wish to hire, possibly with a different cost associated with each tier.

[Pardoux]

Maybe just a selection button/drop down box for desired "tier" (level range/stats) for the mercs you wish to hire, possibly with a different cost associated with each tier.

 

If there are (as suggested) 500 level tiers then that could work as ALL mercs be in each tier.

 

What I am against is a way where you can pay more (either in the tiers system or as it is now) to ensure getting the best / better mercs with less effort. The system now is a PITA to get the good mercs, but it's the same for EVERYONE

Edited by Pardoux, 01 December 2014 - 20:57.

[cyrus7]

If there are (as suggested) 500 level tiers then that could work as ALL mercs be in each tier.

 

What I am against is a way where you can pay more (either in the tiers system or as it is now) to ensure getting the best / better mercs with less effort. The system now is a PITA to get the good mercs, but it's the same for EVERYONE

Basically you'd have something like this:

 

Tier 1

level 50 - Corrupted Knight Elite

level 100 - Rabit Rat Elite

level 150 - Slobbering Dog Elite

level 200 - Evil Vampire Elite

level 250 - Hungry Zombie Elite

level 300 - Venomous Snake Elite

level 350 - Eyeless Golem Elite

level 400 - Angry Bear Elite

level 450 - Disturbed Bee Hive Elite

level 500 - Crazed Looter Elite

 

Tier 2

level 550 - Corrupted Knight Elite

level 600 - Rabit Rat Elite

level 650 - Slobbering Dog Elite

level 700 - Evil Vampire Elite

level 750 - Hungry Zombie Elite

level 800 - Venomous Snake Elite

level 850 - Eyeless Golem Elite

level 900 - Angry Bear Elite

level 950 - Disturbed Bee Hive Elite

level 1000 - Crazed Looter Elite

 

[...repeat to 2500...]

 

So if you chose to pull from Tier 1, you would have a chance at getting a merc leveled 1-500, Tier 2 you would get 501-1000, etc. You wouldn't just be able to choose to hire a level 2000 merc; you'd try to pull from the 1501-2000 tier, and you might get it, or might not, but you'd get something in that level range.

[Pardoux]

Basically you'd have something like this:

 

Tier 1

level 50 - Corrupted Knight Elite

level 100 - Rabit Rat Elite

level 150 - Slobbering Dog Elite

level 200 - Evil Vampire Elite

level 250 - Hungry Zombie Elite

level 300 - Venomous Snake Elite

level 350 - Eyeless Golem Elite

level 400 - Angry Bear Elite

level 450 - Disturbed Bee Hive Elite

level 500 - Crazed Looter Elite

 

Tier 2

level 550 - Corrupted Knight Elite

level 600 - Rabit Rat Elite

level 650 - Slobbering Dog Elite

level 700 - Evil Vampire Elite

level 750 - Hungry Zombie Elite

level 800 - Venomous Snake Elite

level 850 - Eyeless Golem Elite

level 900 - Angry Bear Elite

level 950 - Disturbed Bee Hive Elite

level 1000 - Crazed Looter Elite

 

[...repeat to 2500...]

 

So if you chose to pull from Tier 1, you would have a chance at getting a merc leveled 1-500, Tier 2 you would get 501-1000, etc. You wouldn't just be able to choose to hire a level 2000 merc; you'd try to pull from the 1501-2000 tier, and you might get it, or might not, but you'd get something in that level range.

 

Yeah, something like that is fine by me - but  ....
 

Can, for instance, a Level 1 character hire a merc out of the 2000-2499 tier ? - or is he restricted to just the 1-499 tier ?

Actually, if the prices are raised at the right rate, for each tier, it shouldn't matter - if he can afford it, he should be able to hire it.

[cyrus7]

Yeah, something like that is fine by me - but  ....
 

Can, for instance, a Level 1 character hire a merc out of the 2000-2499 tier ? - or is he restricted to just the 1-499 tier ?

Actually, if the prices are raised at the right rate, for each tier, it shouldn't matter - if he can afford it, he should be able to hire it.

I don't see why they couldn't use a high level merc; that's the way it works currently. As long as you're willing to pay to keep searching for a merc with better stats, you can partner up with it.

[justinian9]

I would love this as it will make finding merc I can use much easier,  but how will this effect lower level crews with next to nothing in this guild banks?

 

Currently smaller / poorer crews have the same chance to get a good merc as a big / rich crew at the same cost.

 

I would like to hear from players in smaller/ poorer crews on this subject

Edited by justinian9, 02 December 2014 - 02:19.

[Pardoux]

I would love this as it will make finding merc I can use much easier,  but how will this effect lower level crews with next to nothing in this guild banks?

 

Currently smaller / poorer crews have the same chance to get a good merc as a big / rich crew at the same cost.

 

I would like to hear from players in smaller/ poorer crews on this subject

 

That's why I was concerned about bigger guilds having an easier way of getting mercs but, if each and every merc is in each tier, then there are (at 5 tiers) now 5x the number of mercs. I'm assuming (which could be wrong, of course) that the majority of the current mercs would slot into tier1 straight away and those that are above the level cap could be "tweaked" to fit.  

 

Then, the same mercs, with better stats, all slot into Tier 2 and then, incremented again, into Tier 3 etc etc.

 

Maybe Tier 1 needs to be upto Level 1K and then have 500 Level increments tho - so that those "smaller, less rich guilds" still have access to exactly the same mercs (with some getting a  stat boost - who wants a level 45 merc with almost no stats after all ?) but those who want more powerful ones can go up a tier or 2 ?

 

When the stats are tweaked tho, it needs to be remembered that we, as players, only get 20% of the posted stats  added to our group (I was convinced it was 25%, but just checked, and no, 20%) - so, whilst on paper the stats can look great, in useful terms, they're 1/5th of that.

 

Ergo, let's hyothetically assume I have personal stats of 10K across the board and I hire 2 mercs with 1K across the board each.

What some players may ASSUME happens is that the mercs stats are simply added to the player stats thus giving his group 12K across the board.

 

What ACTUALLY happens is that the players group stats go up to 10.4K across the board.

I thought that this used to be mentioned on the mercenary page ?

Perhaps - actually, here's probably the EASIEST solution of all - just add ALL (rather than 20%) of a mercenaries stats to the group - in essence then, you've boosted them by a factor of 5 with the least  amount of work

Edited by Pardoux, 02 December 2014 - 03:56.

[cyrus7]

When the stats are tweaked tho, it needs to be remembered that we, as players, only get 20% of the posted stats  added to our group (I was convinced it was 25%, but just checked, and no, 20%) - so, whilst on paper the stats can look great, in useful terms, they're 1/5th of that.

 

[...]

I thought that this used to be mentioned on the mercenary page ?

It's not specifically on the merc page, but if you put the Groups page info and the Mercs page info together, you get the info.

 

From the Groups page:

"It takes 5 stamina to join a group and will add 20% of your player stats to the group leader (the player which initiated the group)."

 

From the Mercs page:

"Mercenaries act like additional guild members and join every attack group created while they are working for your guild."

 

So one can gather that since mercs "act like additional guild members" that they contribute only 20% of their stats, just like guild members do. It would be nice to have a reminder on the mercs page though, just so it's understood.

[Pardoux]

What d'ya think of my simplest solution cyrus ? - to just add 100% of merc stats to a group. Still maintain the player percentage tho 'cos that's normally far more powerful ...

[BadPenny]

Pardoux, I think 100% would be too much.  50-75% maybe

[Pardoux]

Pardoux, I think 100% would be too much.  50-75% maybe

 

Perhaps - depends on the mercs - but, given that some are after increasing stats by a factor of 10, adding 100% to group stats rather than 20% is only a factor of 5

Ah, now that the Bug Giy ? - nah, Big Guy is on the job, I'll let him decide which way to update 'em - the main thing is that they GET updated

[justinian9]

I like this idea.... the current merc are all in the first tier and newer stronger ones start in the next tier...  I would hope that we are not talking about increasing the search cost? 

 

Maybe Tier 1 needs to be upto Level 1K and then have 500 Level increments tho - so that those "smaller, less rich guilds" still have access to exactly the same mercs (with some getting a  stat boost - who wants a level 45 merc with almost no stats after all ?) but those who want more powerful ones can go up a tier or 2 ?

 

[Thriceborn]

Pardoux, I think 100% would be too much.  50-75% maybe

 

I suspect the simplest thing would be to leave the formula (and many mercs) alone, but display the effective bonus instead of the merc's actual stats (and a message to indicate that what you see is what you get). It would certainly be simpler for players.

[Pardoux]

I suspect the simplest thing would be to leave the formula (and many mercs) alone, but display the effective bonus instead of the merc's actual stats (and a message to indicate that what you see is what you get). It would certainly be simpler for players.

 

That wouldn't address the fact that most mercs now are DREADFULLY underpowered tho

[BigGrim]

Basically you'd have something like this:
 
Tier 1
level 50 - Corrupted Knight Elite
level 100 - Rabit Rat Elite
level 150 - Slobbering Dog Elite
level 200 - Evil Vampire Elite
level 250 - Hungry Zombie Elite
level 300 - Venomous Snake Elite
level 350 - Eyeless Golem Elite
level 400 - Angry Bear Elite
level 450 - Disturbed Bee Hive Elite
level 500 - Crazed Looter Elite
 
Tier 2
level 550 - Corrupted Knight Elite
level 600 - Rabit Rat Elite
level 650 - Slobbering Dog Elite
level 700 - Evil Vampire Elite
level 750 - Hungry Zombie Elite
level 800 - Venomous Snake Elite
level 850 - Eyeless Golem Elite
level 900 - Angry Bear Elite
level 950 - Disturbed Bee Hive Elite
level 1000 - Crazed Looter Elite
 
[...repeat to 2500...]
 
So if you chose to pull from Tier 1, you would have a chance at getting a merc leveled 1-500, Tier 2 you would get 501-1000, etc. You wouldn't just be able to choose to hire a level 2000 merc; you'd try to pull from the 1501-2000 tier, and you might get it, or might not, but you'd get something in that level range.

That's kinda what I'm leaning towards at the mo. Power of the Merc is something I can alter easily enough. Considering several code tweaks like the one above.

I'm also considering allowing each Guild to have their own copy of the Merc, thereby stopping the Merc camping and allowing everyone equal access.

[Kedyn]

That's kinda what I'm leaning towards at the mo. Power of the Merc is something I can alter easily enough. Considering several code tweaks like the one above.

I'm also considering allowing each Guild to have their own copy of the Merc, thereby stopping the Merc camping and allowing everyone equal access.

 

This could be another way to sink some gold/fsp in the game - make purchases of mercs increase as you purchase more/higher tiers of them. 

[BadPenny]

Big Guy, you rock, as always <3

[bigchaos]

I like what I am seeing and agree lower level guilds need access to better mercs. I know when I hired mercs in my guild kept getting many that would not help me and my team mates much.  I hope we can put some input like we do for buying buffs in buff market.  I think put level area and go from there what comes up.  I do think the tier idea has some merit so all guilds can get what they need and perhaps rotate better the higher level mercs.   I would love to see still in mercs to have rotating random mercs  that are seasonal and temporary types.  I wonder if we can recycle some of the weaker ones and give them some upgrades for special times of the year. 

 

I was thinking spring, summer, autumn and winter.  This might help with some other events that can include guild team efforts. Just an idea or suggestion.  Thank you Pardoux for bringing this topic up.