97 replies to this topic

[Anemie]

(...)Finally, I guess perhaps based on part of your response, most PvPers are not self-respecting and and are NOT interested in the challenge (although I have read differently in other forums on this topic). So, with better gear that they can afford; in exclusive guilds as well, it must be a real hoot to steal the gold from players that are not equipped to PvP.  Only problem is, it's not a real hoot for for everyone and as those players quit, you have fewer players to the FS community.(...)

 

You have to understand that bunch of people who enjoy PvP in this game don't want to participate in the ladder and fight for rewards and it is not because they don't like the challenge.

Stealing gold from someone,reading messages in your inbox - that's actually quite fun.

As for challenge,you have BB for that,fighting players who are hundreds of levels higher than you is more challenging than any ladder.

Even if we would "separate" PvP from the rest of the game-it wouldn't work ... in every range there would be only few players who would PvP and without PvP this game would die quite fast.

 

As for gear,you really don't need the best gear to win against ANYONE,you need to know what stats are,how buffs work and hit at the right time.

 

 

And just because I'm selfish enough,I don't want to fight against other PvP-ers in my range,I want to level,hit random people(just because I want to hit them) and have fun on BB when I'm bored,that's all I want to do in this game ATM..

 

 

 

Edit: Good to see that I've mastered quoting on this new forum...

[Spitfire666123]

It's a shame the response is so myopically focused.  Out of respect for forum rules, I won't mention other online, browser based games that have opt-in for PvPing and are thriving these days.  With those games, you better have the best gear to PvP or forget it.  

 

So, I cannot agree with your statement that having a PvP opt-in function would further drive players from the game.  Having participated in the PvP function of those other games, it is abundantly clear, as it is here with this game, you need to buy -- have -- the best gear possible.  You don't get that gear from common creature drops.  Maybe when FS was first launched, the new community could PvP all they wanted, but as the FS community grew, so did the variety of players. As so does the scope of this game.

 

Finally, I guess perhaps based on part of your response, most PvPers are not self-respecting and and are NOT interested in the challenge (although I have read differently in other forums on this topic). So, with better gear that they can afford; in exclusive guilds as well, it must be a real hoot to steal the gold from players that are not equipped to PvP.  Only problem is, it's not a real hoot for for everyone and as those players quit, you have fewer players to the FS community.

 

PvPers DO like a challenge. The problem is that most people dont give them one. Bounty Hunting, and GvG is the easiest way to PvP with a challenge. Hitting for gold, nothing is a challenge, and asking for one is redundant.

 

I never said that having an opt-in would drive people away. I said it would kill the game. When players are immune to PvP, they can hold as much gold as they want. Dumping gold becomes less of a priority, which will drive the price of FSP through the roof even more. 

 

I know of other games where "opt-in" PvP (Arena, Battlegrounds), and you cant really compare the 2, since those games have different gear for each, and this game has the same gear for all aspects

[xxgruntxx]

PvPers DO like a challenge. The problem is that most people dont give them one. Bounty Hunting, and GvG is the easiest way to PvP with a challenge. Hitting for gold, nothing is a challenge, and asking for one is redundant.

 

I never said that having an opt-in would drive people away. I said it would kill the game. When players are immune to PvP, they can hold as much gold as they want. Dumping gold becomes less of a priority, which will drive the price of FSP through the roof even more. 

 

I know of other games where "opt-in" PvP (Arena, Battlegrounds), and you cant really compare the 2, since those games have different gear for each, and this game has the same gear for all aspects

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

Having GvGed a bit myself, somewhat unwittlingly, but that's a another story for another time! --  I do understand the challenge in GvGing, truly a challenge, AND it takes planning and the best gear to help succeed in GvG.

 

Having been hit in PvP, as I am sure most of us have, looking at the opponent that just struck, certainly has been equipped with better than common drops -- typically legendary gear, so I cannot buy the argument that you can be successful using common drops in PvPing -- maybe to augment your set up, but not as central to your set up.

 

We're at a crossroads here with this... many say the game will die if PvP if carved up anymore; others insist the game is dying because of the structure of PvPing.  Somehow, there needs to be point where the two camps can co-exist.  Either camp insisting on their point of view will not help the game at all.  There is an imbalance in the PvP system which is tilted to the PvPer...reading the thread here, and elsewhere, gives you a good idea how and why.

 

Finally, although this is a game, it is first a business, so I understand it has to make money, it has to make a profit.  But if you lose the masses to the PvP game mechanics, then you no longer have a product to sell.  For better or worse, not everyone who plays this game has the real $$$ to invest in it.  As PvPing requires better gear, it is available basically, or mostly, only to those who pay into the game as well as to those who are members of the more exclusive guilds -- the top 10 or so.  Not all players can afford that. Not many players are eligible to join those top guilds based on the minimum standards to join as well as just a "numbers" restriction. Period. Fact.  But, you need to hold onto them (as many players as possible) as well, otherwise, the product is no longer a "popular" product.

[watagashi]

why not be able to get some super potions with tokens?? i have about 80 of them as of right now, and the only reason i'm still opted in is because im bored with leveling and there is barely anybody else. al750, lib500, a higher level extend buff would be amazing as well

people whined that down and pretty much when its brought up every other month the majority seems to want power pots but bound and gear left unbound. I would rather not bind anything but sometimes if thats the deal breaker ya got to be flexible,, I think arena pots should be bound as well 

[Spitfire666123]

people whined that down and pretty much when its brought up every other month the majority seems to want power pots but bound and gear left unbound. I would rather not bind anything but sometimes if thats the deal breaker ya got to be flexible,, I think arena pots should be bound as well 

 

You keep bringing up other aspects of the game. Why? We are talking about PvP. You cant compare the two. By your logic, HCS should make all pots bound, regardless of where they come from. There, problem solved

[yotwehc]

I never said that having an opt-in would drive people away. I said it would kill the game. When players are immune to PvP, they can hold as much gold as they want. Dumping gold becomes less of a priority, which will drive the price of FSP through the roof even more. 

Can someone help me understand this? How is it that if dumping gold becomes a less of a priority, the amount goes up? To the contrary, it would go down imo... if, as the poster mentions, a player can hold as much gold as they want, then why would you get rid of it while the market is up? Wouldn't you wait till it was really low so you can get more fsp's? o_O

[watagashi]

You keep bringing up other aspects of the game. Why? We are talking about PvP. You cant compare the two. By your logic, HCS should make all pots bound, regardless of where they come from. There, problem solved

Thats exactly what ill ask for if pvp pots are bound. I keep bringing up other parts of the game to point out that not only has pvp gotten a disproportionate amount of restrictions already that other parts of the game should also be considered for the same reasons (profit, monopoly, players dont want to have to do it, bothers other players)  but more are being asked for on things that werent even considered to be bound or tagged in theri respective areas. 

So you would be ok with a bound potion of LD225 which would be a great potion to get with say 5 tokens BUT it must be bound to them??

Because ill just spend a couple points trying to win one in arena or just buy it off AH because for some reason those arent bound. 

hope it makes more sense why im comparing now.

 

LD500? for 5 tokens? Then id be ok if it was bound

[Jose]

 

LD500? for 5 tokens? Then id be ok if it was bound

Haha well im not sure if LD500 its the best idea but i think maybe one LD 300 but with a higher duration? Maybe that would work better

[watagashi]

Haha well im not sure if LD500 its the best idea but i think maybe one LD 300 but with a higher duration? Maybe that would work better

LD250 from arena, 5 on AH for 5FSP each. 

 

Heres the problem I have seen and why im so against binding any pvp stuff even with the low prices for gear thats available now its not worth 5 tokens to make a ld300 when I can buy one an arena player got and was able to sell for some reason for much cheaper. 

Everyones point seems to be to get more involvment in ladder but want things like binding attached. This isnt going to get any more people playing nor will it have people using tokens unless the items it makes are worth the time and effort! The first round of pvp gear was popular and still is with everyone! We need more gear and if potions are included consider that tokens are estimated at about 2-3 FSP each still. The potions if bound will have to blow away any others available or people arent going to waste tokens on them.

Then theres the other side of it, if you make bound pots that are so powerful they are worth it you are totally going to get complaints about them!!!! nonpvpers will throw a fit they cant get them without pvping its NOT going to encourage people to try it its going to encourage more tickets and forum posts of complaints.

 

I think it should just be average pots at modest cost that remain unbound. people will use the tokens mostly for their own use but also may sell some to stimulate the fs economy

[Jose]

LD250 from arena, 5 on AH for 5FSP each. 

 

Heres the problem I have seen and why im so against binding any pvp stuff even with the low prices for gear thats available now its not worth 5 tokens to make a ld300 when I can buy one an arena player got and was able to sell for some reason for much cheaper. 

Everyones point seems to be to get more involvment in ladder but want things like binding attached. This isnt going to get any more people playing nor will it have people using tokens unless the items it makes are worth the time and effort! The first round of pvp gear was popular and still is with everyone! We need more gear and if potions are included consider that tokens are estimated at about 2-3 FSP each still. The potions if bound will have to blow away any others available or people arent going to waste tokens on them.

Then theres the other side of it, if you make bound pots that are so powerful they are worth it you are totally going to get complaints about them!!!! nonpvpers will throw a fit they cant get them without pvping its NOT going to encourage people to try it its going to encourage more tickets and forum posts of complaints.

 

I think it should just be average pots at modest cost that remain unbound. people will use the tokens mostly for their own use but also may sell some to stimulate the fs economy

Well your point seems to be very logic and i still think its a good idea. Just want to note, u know for example that one AL 500 for 20 tokens shouldnt be added, right? Or yes if it is bound? That would be a problem at all and i dont think HCS would add some bound and others just normal. I really would like that a member from HCS would post here again to tell us what they think. But i still have the idea that if we want good pvpe battles we need bound things to have more rivals and if we want gold we need just new things added and get the AH saturated very soon. Thats why i think bound=more pvpers, so that its the idea for me

[watagashi]

Well your point seems to be very logic and i still think its a good idea. Just want to note, u know for example that one AL 500 for 20 tokens shouldnt be added, right? Or yes if it is bound? That would be a problem at all and i dont think HCS would add some bound and others just normal. I really would like that a member from HCS would post here again to tell us what they think. But i still have the idea that if we want good pvpe battles we need bound things to have more rivals and if we want gold we need just new things added and get the AH saturated very soon. Thats why i think bound=more pvpers, so that its the idea for me

Hmmm al500 as a bound pot for 20 pvp tokens???

 

Id make them!! and yes well worth the tokens

 

BUT

We are now opening up another problem,,, currently al500 is only available as a stash item for donating $60, the cheapest I found on AH today is a Lindys stash for 340 FSP,,, im gonna go out on a limb and put this in the never gonna happen file since I know the first thing you would get is a riot by the donators whos stash items just lost total value.

 

It's on the right track tho, I too would like to see how the cows feel about it and maybe open up a post of which buffs pvp tokens should make. I still think bound isnt going to help and just make pots of average cost and strength

 

Why? Because releasing new stuff is only going to bring in a small amount of people anyway, it happened every other time pvp stuff was released. Everyone wants to try it and by the first reset half were frustrated they could not compete. Binding powerful potions is only going to tip the scales of those who have played already and those who havent even further.

 

Add new stuff, reexamine the ladder and maybe do another overhaul and keep stuff unbound and I believe you will at least see the level of activity you have now and not less but I am not very confident you are ever going to see more than whats happening now in ladders without a major fix of the opting system and a real intergation of pvp into the game.

[Jose]

 

It's on the right track tho, I too would like to see how the cows feel about it and maybe open up a post of which buffs pvp tokens should make. I still think bound isnt going to help and just make pots of average cost and strength

 

Why? Because releasing new stuff is only going to bring in a small amount of people anyway, it happened every other time pvp stuff was released. Everyone wants to try it and by the first reset half were frustrated they could not compete. Binding powerful potions is only going to tip the scales of those who have played already and those who havent even further.

 

Add new stuff, reexamine the ladder and maybe do another overhaul and keep stuff unbound and I believe you will at least see the level of activity you have now and not less but I am not very confident you are ever going to see more than whats happening now in ladders without a major fix of the opting system and a real intergation of pvp into the game.

Well in the case we dont have new bound items or potions and they are open, i think HCS can use something they never used. Maybe i havent read all posts but i still dont see something about Karma. I think that you should gain Karma by helping new players? But maybe.. what if the players that do pvp ladder gain Karma? And with that Karma they can activate certain features? Maybe 5% Bonus defense for 3 hrs for 20 Karma points and each ladder hits gives you 1 prestige? Im SURE that would motivate to play ladder as you can gain pvp prestige doing any type of hit (no gvg counted) but Karma can be added just to ladder? I think its a good way to promote it

[watagashi]

Karma was supposed to be something added that new players could give to reward mentors who helped them. The mentor list stayed but karma was never put out mostly because its something that was gonna be abused badly, above all it was gonna encourage a pile of multis and stuff like how there were no rules about it,,, some people even felt they could take it as payment for buffs not seeing any dif between stam for buffs and karma for stam. 

That said PvP has prestige already, I think we should get a bit more for ladder hits, maybe even get some for placings. Its awesome for a pvper as a boost to releveling. Once again I really hope a very detailed walk through is added for new players to learn all about pvp including ladder. I think this will do more in the long run than anything else to get "new" players to the ladder. I quote new because something needs to be done for the old players who are new at pvp. A softer way to introduce them to it.

Finally I think karma needs returned to and examined. Offering buffs for karma might not be that bad as its a great way to get the interaction of players started as well as im sure the buffer will help explain how buffs work too. Buffs and even a couple new ones that remain karma only would be great and yes one for pvp and the mentor who takes on a padawan to teach the art of war to

[yotwehc]

Can someone help me understand this? How is it that if dumping gold becomes a less of a priority, the amount goes up? To the contrary, it would go down imo... if, as the poster mentions, a player can hold as much gold as they want, then why would you get rid of it while the market is up? Wouldn't you wait till it was really low so you can get more fsp's? o_O

Anyone? Please? Buehler?

[Removed8950]

Seems not.

 

Makes too much sense.

[Jose]

So HCS im really wondering, from all the posts this thread have. We going to see something implemented...!?

[Windbattle]

@Jose, patience is a future. The cows take a long time to implement things so you have to have patience.

 

I definitely agree with all of Hoof's changes because they HELP the game. My only critique would be point 5 about the smasher medal. ALL 100 stam hits should count for the smasher medal. It still costs you 100 stam correct? Then it should count. simple as that.

 

Most of the people who have been against it are only citing PERSONAL reasons why it wouldn't be good for the game. that doesn't mean its not good for the game.  PvP has been dead shortly after the PvP ladders got introduced. It had a little glimmer of light when you introduced smasher medal but then you quickly turned tail away from it (despite only a few people whining about it). 

 

Go look at the BB, I bet there is less than 2 pages on it. I bet most of the people there ACTUALLY want to lose XP (aka EOC players farming more XP by releveling) OR the occasional prestige / gold hit that wasn't welcomed. THATS IT.

[Jose]

@Jose, patience is a future. The cows take a long time to implement things so you have to have patience.

 

I know, but i think everyone has wait allot... Just read the other forum threads... almost speaking about the same global thing... PVP... so its my idea or we should get atleast some words from HCS telling us that they have read our ideas... Dont u think!?