118 replies to this topic

[IronSword]

If you are going to change the PvP protection, then you need to change the gold deposit also. We should be able to deposit as much gold as we want, not just 25% of what we have. This is the only game that I have played that doesn't allow you to deposit all your gold at once.

Also, how about adding an option for us to buy FSP with gold, not just in the market place. We can us FSP to buy gold, so we should be able to buy FSP with the gold.

Just my 2 cents..

[rowbeth]

and will severely limit those market place manipulators, "controlling"
the price of FSP's.

Having watched the MP closely for the last 8 months, I have to say that this is a complete myth. PVP protection does NOT allow anyone to control the FSP price, and does not even allow people to influence the price upwards. The volume in the market place is way to high for even a group of people to exert ay control within a 10 Mill gold limit. 40-50 FSPs are frequently bought in single transactions and so cannot provide a block with which to to raise the price. People do sometime place bids for more than 10 mill. Every time I have chased those bids back to source, they have been people without PVP protection.

The only sense in which those with PVP protection control the FSP price is by limiting the heights to which the prices rise - and the real pressure forcing high prices is the the sellers perceived need to sell quickly.

[Edited in response to Pardoux ...]
Lets not misdirect the discussion on PVP protection by a misunderstanding of the effect of the gold protection

[and added in edit]
I realise this is just a small part of Pardoux's discussion, but its one that has been raised by a lot of people in past threads and so I thought to put a short counterview to this particular comment.

[DragonLord]

and will severely limit those market place manipulators, "controlling" the price of FSP's.

Having watched the MP closely for the last 8 months, I have to say that this is a complete myth. PVP protection does NOT allow anyone to control the FSP price, and does not even allow people to influence the price upwards. The volume in the market place is way to high for even a group of people to exert ay control within a 10 Mill gold limit. 40-50 FSPs are frequently bought in single transactions and so cannot provide a block with which to to raise the price. People do sometime place bids for more than 10 mill. Every time I have chased those bids back to source, they have been people without PVP protection.

The only sense in which those with PVP protection control the FSP price is by limiting the heights to which the prices rise - and the real pressure forcing high prices is the the sellers perceived need to sell quickly.

Lets not distract a discussion on PVP by a misguided understanding of the effect of gold protection

And the rest of my post, which you skipped over, WAS discussing PvP PROTECTION - which is the topic, not just PvP

[rowbeth]

My personal view on this proposal?

I have an intense dislike of PVP and would have left this game long ago if I hadn't started buying PVP protection.

I have only been able to afford PVP protection by playing the market place. By spending a lot of my time using the 10 Mill gold protection to buy FSP high and sell low (and hence keeping the peak price of FSP lower than it would otherwise have been) I have generated about enough FSP to afford the PVP protection.

So unless the PVP protection is made MUCH cheaper, this change is likely to leave me with a lot more time in real life, and one more computer-game-addiction that I have will have "overcome".

[rowbeth]

and will severely limit those market place manipulators, "controlling" the price of FSP's.

Having watched the MP closely for the last 8 months, I have to say that this is a complete myth. PVP protection does NOT allow anyone to control the FSP price, and does not even allow people to influence the price upwards. The volume in the market place is way to high for even a group of people to exert ay control within a 10 Mill gold limit. 40-50 FSPs are frequently bought in single transactions and so cannot provide a block with which to to raise the price. People do sometime place bids for more than 10 mill. Every time I have chased those bids back to source, they have been people without PVP protection.

The only sense in which those with PVP protection control the FSP price is by limiting the heights to which the prices rise - and the real pressure forcing high prices is the the sellers perceived need to sell quickly.

Lets not distract a discussion on PVP by a misguided understanding of the effect of gold protection

And the rest of my post, which you skipped over, WAS discussing PvP PROTECTION - which is the topic, not just PvP

Quite right! And I did NOT mean to detract from the rest of your discussion - which was well thought out and a contribution to the discussion that I found well worth thinking over

[Uncle Beg]

I have been a leveler 90% of my FS time.
I did try out PvP but didn't continue because it's not fair.
PvP is not attractive because it's more like Multiple Players vs 1 Player.

I got 100 stam hit by a PvPer so I 100 stam hit back.
That pvper bountied me and his buddies deleveled me.
Is that what PvP is about?

If HCS could come up with a way where 1 Player vs 1 Player, then I'm in.

There are plenty of players that I know that are willing to PvP if it's a 1 Player vs 1 Player.

[rowbeth]

Another thought on this (aplogies if I am duplicating earlier thoughts):

From my own experience: PVP protection is crucial for being able to make big enough deposits into my guild bank to keep it functioning. Any reduction in the gold protection may seriously threaten the viability of small guilds.

If HCS do proceed with this, perhaps they should think of allowing additional free gold deposits into the guild bank each day - or increasing the maximum guild tax rate to something more like 50%.

[Spitfire666123]

I feel this transition would be better between everyone if you just lowered the max gold protected by a lot down to 1 Mil total and is the same no matter what level you are.

That would still penalize low level players pvping for gold. ( alot less gold in low ranges as compared to higher ones)

1 Mil, at my level even... is like hitting the Jackpot. If I see it, im hitting hourly until they dump it

I am not a fan of PvP and never have been. I don't like that someone can just randomly steal from the hard work that I have done - especially when it comes to leveling (I understand it, just don't like it). Gold is one thing but leave my XP alone when I have done nothing to deserve it. There is a great deal of expense that goes into a hunt with time, pots and buffs - so when you are hit with PvP it is not just the "gold loss" that occurs. The XP needs to be regained and getting the time, pots and buffs for that need to be taken into account when considering the XP loss part. 25 FSP for protect XP is expensive - so lowering that would be appreciated.

I would like to see FS get rid of XP loss altogether, even without an upgrade, for random hits. If you attack someone and get on the BB, are in a war, etc., then that is when the XP loss should kick in.

Keep the gold hits - we need more gold sunk. Or like others have suggested, get more gold upgrades going for components and combat moves.

Overall, the thread/votes seems to be in favor of the change at the moment. I don't expect much support for my comments but wanted to put them out there so at least another side was taken into account.

Thanks -

1. PvP's biggest bonus at this point in time IS the gold sink. Regardless of HOW you PvP, 25% of what is stolen disappears forever.

2. If your gold is THAT precious to you, learn to protect it yourself, and quit relying on a script (PvP Protection) to do it for you

Thats part of the risk you take when you accept a bounty, got to live with it whether you use 100 stam or 10 stam you always run the risk of a bounty...

Then you are completely missing the point. It doesnt HAVE to be a risk that you take if the rules were changed. And for most people its not a risk worth taking, which is exactly why the bounty board has been removed from existance for many players.
Its quite simple really: If re-bounties were not possible, more people would participate in clearing them.

Yes there does. There ALWAYS has to be a risk in PvP. ALWAYS. If Bounties could go un-countered. As Maehdros has said, there would be alot of loopholes, and free delevellings.

I like the idea but i not sure it will do anything at all Hoof.

MOST of your PvP players have already jumped ship and are inactive now. I've also noticed with this game,, you are either a pvper or your a leveler. most players are not both.

My thought is to make it somewhat more interesting..

I'm not sure what is needed but this change will have little to no impact on your proposal.

Also, the ability to bounty someone 10x because they hit you 10x destroyed PvP as well.

Change it back to being able to only bounty 1x regardless of how many attacks. that might revive PvP again. You can maybe get someone to loss 1 level with 10 100 stams. but being able to bounty that player 10 times gives that player the ability to loss 50 levels.. not fair at all..

Can't agree more.

I agree as well. Back then, PvP was more 'fair' than it is now. It doesnt help that a single person 100 stamming you for Smasher takes 2 levels It used to take a group of people (5+) to take 5

Hi all,

We've been taking a look at PvP and feel that it should be more active as it's an important part of the game. One of the main issues with PvP currently seems to be the PvP Protection Upgrade which discourages PvP due to the high amount of gold protection it offers.

In our opinion, the main purpose of PvP Protection is to prevent xp loss from PvP and the gold protection is an added bonus. PvP Protection reduces the purpose of the bank and also prevents gold being sunk via PvP.

Therefore, we feel it would make sense remove the gold protection from the upgrade, reduce the Fallen Sword Point cost of it and also add a new gold upgrade which will allow you to activate PvP Protection for 24 hours.

Thoughts?

yes please. Most PvPers PvP for the shinies, and we need to keep it as such. Its such a nice Gold Sink as well

[Aglaeca]

Great idea no reason 1 upgrade should protect both. If you want both pay for both.

I would vote yes *if* this were the option.

[sirdavid58]

If you change the protection then all the potions will be sold for fsp so we dont get robbed i am a potion maker . Real simple you change it and it is the death of cheap potions So the lower level players will have problems leveling .

[Teuchter]

I have been a leveler 90% of my FS time.
I did try out PvP but didn't continue because it's not fair.
PvP is not attractive because it's more like Multiple Players vs 1 Player.

I got 100 stam hit by a PvPer so I 100 stam hit back.
That pvper bountied me and his buddies deleveled me.
Is that what PvP is about?

If HCS could come up with a way where 1 Player vs 1 Player, then I'm in.

There are plenty of players that I know that are willing to PvP if it's a 1 Player vs 1 Player.

but it never is, ,, and it has just become an excuse for some to bully others , , , I have no interest whatsoever in PvP, nothing smart about stealing gold, just creates bad feelings ,you have the ladder, arena and BB yet it seems there is never enough Pvp ??

[Spitfire666123]

I have been a leveler 90% of my FS time.
I did try out PvP but didn't continue because it's not fair.
PvP is not attractive because it's more like Multiple Players vs 1 Player.

I got 100 stam hit by a PvPer so I 100 stam hit back.
That pvper bountied me and his buddies deleveled me.
Is that what PvP is about?

If HCS could come up with a way where 1 Player vs 1 Player, then I'm in.

There are plenty of players that I know that are willing to PvP if it's a 1 Player vs 1 Player.

but it never is, ,, and it has just become an excuse for some to bully others , , , I have no interest whatsoever in PvP, nothing smart about stealing gold, just creates bad feelings ,you have the ladder, arena and BB yet it seems there is never enough Pvp ??

The BB is there to punish PvPers. The Ladder is a failure, that was meant to be a marking of 'true PvP', since before it, Rating didnt mean anything, except to show who were BH, or PvPers.

and beg2lose, you ran into a dirtbag, it happens

[jer]

I have not use PvP protecton since they lowered it down to what it is now, I only voted no because I hate PvP. If they truely want more of a gold sink from PvP raise the percentige pulled from game to 50 or 60 percent from every PvP attack, lower the gold protection majorly along with the cost to get it, and then add a gold sink of like 500 to 1000 gold per level to putting a bounty on some one so it is not so cheap to bounty so people think about how much it costs and are not so quik to bounty every attack.
This problem can not be fixed with one big change, it is going to have to be many little changes or it is not going to make anybody happy.
And for those that bring up taking from someones bank with PvP even at a 1% chance there are many of use that spent a lot to max our deposits, and I for one would want my FSP back because that would make the deposits worthless except to the guild, and the guild is where that gold would go so you would never get a shot at it anyways, not only would it make the deposits useless it would also eliminate the banks.

[Teuchter]

Does the pick pocket worry that your cash was to be used to buy milk, bread, and peanut butter and jelly for all your booger factories or that you wont be getting lap dances in the VIP room at Babydolls? no, its theft plain and simple and if you're out there with a pile of gold, its a valid target whether you like it or not.

Anyone who has unfortunately been robbed in real life knows you dont wear a sign saying you are protected. If your gold is stolen, steal it back. The bb is not an effective deterrent. I vote yes and I'll be careful.

I do agree that being Stabbed While Sleeping is not PvP.

all well and good , comparing it to mugging is exactly what it is except in RL muggers go to jail when caught, here the BB is a feeble deterrent,,and we should be left to play the game our way , and for me that does not include getting mugged

[cazz1]

I buy pvp protection to protect my xp and my gold. If i wanted to protect my xp I would buy protect xp after each hunt costing me 50 fsp per month and risk loosing xp gained via epics during regain time.

Some of us pay the price to protect both and some just buy pvp protection to protect there gold and some just buy it as we are not interested in pvp. Some just pay the price so they don't have to deal with the bulling that comes with pvp as it tends to bring out the worst in people & guilds.

Shouldn't it be our choice if we want to be involved with pvp. We shouldn't be forced into pvp. Some choose pvp, leveling, inventing, titan hunting, SE hunting & guild conflicts. There are different aspects to this game if there is not enough activity in pvp does that mean people are paying lots of fsp for pvp protection or just not holding the gold they used to hold or just not interested in pvp.

Do you need to be reminded of what happened when you brought in the guild conflicts & pvp ladder you lost a lot of peace loving players and this change will force you to loose more and most of these players donate. I honestly don't want see more players leave or be one that does leave.

With these changes will come Potions, buffs and other items all sold for fsp rather then gold as players can't protect there earnings from players who would attack them for it.

If this is a way to boost the bounty board as a gold sink there are other ways. Need ideas message me.

Cazz1

[WandKing]

I've been playing this game over 4 years now and watch the PvP system evolve into what it is today. Back then, my biggest grip was that a player that got PvPed got victimizes twice - 1st for loss of xp and gold and then for having to dish out additional gold/FSPs for bounty.

How about leveling the playing field a bit?

When a player places a bounty on an attacker then that attacker goes "on the lam" (can't be found) for 24 hours. (They are seen on the BB with the countdown clock ticking)
In that 24 hours, the attacker has the choice to "pay the fine and do the time" by matching the bounty placed on them. The victim is refunded their gold/FSPs.

If the attacker does pay the fine then they only have to suffer 5 lashes/5 losses to the fastest bounterhunters.

If the attacker does not "pay the fine" the the standard 10 hit/losses apply.

Do you remember the deleveling parties your guild once did when one of your members was being harassed by a PvPer?

With this suggestion you can have your people ready to "party" again by knowing the exact time the bounty commences...fastest 5 wins if they pay the fine or 10 if they don't.

I agree that restrictions should be loosen up so more players can enjoy PvPing again and at the same time I think both sides, Pro-PvPers and Anti-PvPers should have more tools to work with.

I think "Big Brother" (the guild) should get more involved with protecting their Anti- PvPer members.

If you think about it, the weapon is used by the aggressor and the shield is used by the defender.

What about having specific PvP weapons/shields that have the deflect and anti- deflect skills built right in them?

Have a non- bounded shield with deflect (and other stats fitting for each level bracket) and is difficult to invent, and have bounded crystalline weapons with anti-deflect (other stats too) that is easier to obtain.

Here is the gold sink with this idea...the deflect and anti-deflect only become active if charged with on-hand gold (or a side option to add gold to the "meter"). Say, 1 gold per minute doubled for each level 100 bracket.

I believe there are more creative ways to keep PvP a big part of Fallen Sword and at the same time keep both PvPers and Levelers happy with the game.

I vote yes on splitting the gold/xp protection but believe there are ways to eliminated that part of game completely by giving the guild more power to protect their own if they wish.
WK
Member of the coalition of non-PvPers

[jer]

Another idea I read early in the post that I liked is hiding the currant gold held.
That way the PvPers have to actually risk not getting anything from a hit and still getting bountyed
Or better yet make another gold sink and have a gold upgrade that will hide our gold but not protect it like cloak potion does to our buffs.
A lot of use that hate PvP might not mind so much if the not spending skill points loophole was taken out of game so once you reach a level your VL never went down and these PvPer couldn't just change gear and hit targets at the lower levels after they are deleveled.
I am just trying to get more ideas out there because if they only change the gold protection that will cause just as many problems as it solves, if HCS wants to do it right they are going to have to make many small changes.
Here I have expanded on someone elses good idea earlier in the post, instaed of saying what is wrong with my ideas, please expand on them or modify them to work with the problems you have with them.

[T1GER69]

I buy pvp protection to protect my xp and my gold. If i wanted to protect my xp I would buy protect xp after each hunt costing me 50 fsp per month and risk loosing xp gained via epics during regain time.

Some of us pay the price to protect both and some just buy pvp protection to protect there gold and some just buy it as we are not interested in pvp. Some just pay the price so they don't have to deal with the bulling that comes with pvp as it tends to bring out the worst in people & guilds.

Shouldn't it be our choice if we want to be involved with pvp. We shouldn't be forced into pvp. Some choose pvp, leveling, inventing, titan hunting, SE hunting & guild conflicts. There are different aspects to this game if there is not enough activity in pvp does that mean people are paying lots of fsp for pvp protection or just not holding the gold they used to hold or just not interested in pvp.

Do you need to be reminded of what happened when you brought in the guild conflicts & pvp ladder you lost a lot of peace loving players and this change will force you to loose more and most of these players donate. I honestly don't want see more players leave or be one that does leave.

With these changes will come Potions, buffs and other items all sold for fsp rather then gold as players can't protect there earnings from players who would attack them for it.

If this is a way to boost the bounty board as a gold sink there are other ways. Need ideas message me.

Cazz1

I cant agree more this should not be implemented i pay the price to be protected from xp loss from PvP and the gold protection and don't mind, but if i am forced to put up with pvp and gold loss i will leave this game .