144 replies to this topic

[mickabooth]

i vote yes i would also say make bank deposited reset at 00.00 as well

also remove the cap on the BP

how about adding more Upgrades for gold like these


+1% Experience towards next level
+25 XP Gain (per hour)
+10 Gold Gain (per hour)
+24 Hours PvP Protection.

to be honest i cant see why all Upgrades cant also be made with gold

[MummRa]

i vote yes i would also say make bank deposited reset at 00.00 as well

also remove the cap on the BP

how about adding more Upgrades for gold like these


+1% Experience towards next level
+25 XP Gain (per hour)
+10 Gold Gain (per hour)
+24 Hours PvP Protection.

to be honest i cant see why all Upgrades cant also be made with gold

Increasing gold gain would be massively counterproductive we are trying to get rid of gold

PvP protection should not be able to be bought with gold... Just no it's a bad idea and will further destroy PvP which is not the goal at all

Absolutely not to +1% people should not be able to buy experience with gold. You want to waste the fsp on it go ahead

The xp gain as long as its expensive enough it is so minimal as it is I don't see it having to negative of an impact

BP slots needs a limit but maybe should get reset 1 or 2 a year only at most

[DragonLord]

how about adding more Upgrades for gold like these


+1% Experience towards next level
+25 XP Gain (per hour)
+10 Gold Gain (per hour)
+24 Hours PvP Protection.

to be honest i cant see why all Upgrades cant also be made with gold

I'm gonna take a wild guess here and say that they can't all be bought with gold because it would dramatically affect the cow income and thus the game ?

[Egami]

I am pretty sure that deposits reset 24 hours later but only if you are playing. Get deposit at 1200 day one and not log on until 1800 day 2 and that is when your deposits reset.

That is correct.

having a single time every day means all you need to do is log on and your deposits were already reset if you are late and will be soon if you are early - likewise the gold upgrade.

This is where I think you miss the point. With the exception of those players that can hunt at say 23:00 ST... all things constant... this option would actually MINIMIZE gold sink.

Why? Because except in the above-mentioned exception, it takes away the possibility to double up on your gold sink during hunts...

I think anybody using the gold upgrade each day, probably uses it each day... hence the reset time is irrelevant. I think "most" players using the upgrade take advantage to sink gold during their hunts. These are not the players that use it each and every day.

[Egami]

Currently bank deposits reset 24 hours after you deposit (unless you bought more). T

This is not correct. Your bank depos reset on a 24 hour schedule based on your last log-in time. It makes no difference when you deposit.

[Egami]

So far Tazarian and CallmeABC are the only ones I've seen that say they attempt to use the gold upgrade every day.

My opinion is already posted above but I'll repeat in a more condensed version here:

With the exception of those players that can hunt at say 23:00 ST... all things constant... this option would actually MINIMIZE gold sink.

Why? Because except in the above-mentioned exception, it takes away the possibility to double up on your gold sink during hunts...

I think "most" players using the upgrade take advantage to sink gold during their hunts. These are not the players that use it each and every day.

I fully understand the "time slipping away" on resets... That's clear with the depo reset. So far Taz has managed not to lose an update and Call claims to lose one every three days which means Call is actually sinking gold two out of three days a week.

SO HERE'S THE IMPORTANT POINT OF THIS THREAD and it's directed at Taz and Call and anybody else that tries to update everyday no matter what level they are:

Step outside the box for a moment. Based on all the above, do you think you represent the FS community's use of this upgrade? Or, to the contrary, do you think that the majority of players will tend to use the upgrade when they hunt?

Based on that logic, honestly, which of the two options do you think would maximize gold sink? I'm talking across the FS universe and with a long-term perspective.

I'm obviously leaning towards aligning the gold upgrade being linked to the depo reset. However, I could be wrong, which is why I asked in the first place and is also why I haven't voted. I'm simply afraid that, once again, players are their worst enemies.

[callmeabc]

So far Tazarian and CallmeABC are the only ones I've seen that say they attempt to use the gold upgrade every day.

My opinion is already posted above but I'll repeat in a more condensed version here:

With the exception of those players that can hunt at say 23:00 ST... all things constant... this option would actually MINIMIZE gold sink.

Why? Because except in the above-mentioned exception, it takes away the possibility to double up on your gold sink during hunts...

I think "most" players using the upgrade take advantage to sink gold during their hunts. These are not the players that use it each and every day.

I fully understand the "time slipping away" on resets... That's clear with the depo reset. So far Taz has managed not to lose an update and Call claims to lose one every three days which means Call is actually sinking gold two out of three days a week.

SO HERE'S THE IMPORTANT POINT OF THIS THREAD and it's directed at Taz and Call and anybody else that tries to update everyday no matter what level they are:

Step outside the box for a moment. Based on all the above, do you think you represent the FS community's use of this upgrade? Or, to the contrary, do you think that the majority of players will tend to use the upgrade when they hunt?

Based on that logic, honestly, which of the two options do you think would maximize gold sink? I'm talking across the FS universe and with a long-term perspective.

I'm obviously leaning towards aligning the gold upgrade being linked to the depo reset. However, I could be wrong, which is why I asked in the first place and is also why I haven't voted. I'm simply afraid that, once again, players are their worst enemies.

Trying to be objective. most people who only use the upgrade when they hunt will not be affected either way as most hunters have more than 24 hours between hunts. Someone buying the upgrade every day who has some kind of life it the one effected by the 24 hour reset times.

To be honest I don't understand why so many people oppose the idea. Worse case someone is able to buy 200 stamina during their hunt provided they plan accordingly with the trade off of every player being able to buy it each day regardless of the exact time they bought it yesterday.

Here is an example of my history
Day 1 buy in the morning
Day 2 buy in the evening
Day 3 bought on my way to bed
Day 4 I can not buy unless I stay up late
Day 5 buy first thing in the morning
rinse and repeat

[Egami]

back at (Callme)ABC...

The question though is which option would sink more gold...

1. Those that only use it when they hunt would use it twice whenever they can with minimum planning as opposed to once (unless the can coordinate their hunt with the 00:00 ST).

2. Those that use it every day will, as you say, end up missing a couple upgrades... according to what you say... about twice a week.

I personally "think" option 1 is the norm throughout the game and represents a much larger gold sink than those few (?) in option 2.

I'm wondering what you, being a portion of option 2, think...

[callmeabc]

back at (Callme)ABC...

The question though is which option would sink more gold...

1. Those that only use it when they hunt would use it twice whenever they can with minimum planning as opposed to once (unless the can coordinate their hunt with the 00:00 ST).

2. Those that use it every day will, as you say, end up missing a couple upgrades... according to what you say... about twice a week.

I personally "think" option 1 is the norm throughout the game and represents a much larger gold sink than those few (?) in option 2.

I'm wondering what you, being a portion of option 2, think...

So you question is what would sink more gold :
1) Current system where hunters only dumping gold when they hunt and people who upgrade every day missing a few days here and there
-or-
2) Proposed system where hunters only dumping gold when they hunt and people who upgrade every day being able to do so every day

I am going to have to say that the second option affords the opportunity to dump more gold. Aside from the extra gold sunk by players like me not missing those few days but hunters who hunt around the reset time will be able to sink gold twice into gold upgrades instead of just once per hunting period. I hope that better answers your question

[Egami]

That's great ABC... thanks for taking the time. I do get it now.

You're assumption is that:

Gold sink from number of players donating everyday multiplied by the number of days where they "miss" their reset solely because of the current timing

is greater than

Gold sink from number of players that would double up on hunt time (which doesn't exclude the players above but could exclude those able to work around the 00:00 ST reset) multiplied by the number of times they can work that out.

That could well be. I just have my doubts. Thanks again.

[callmeabc]

That's great ABC... thanks for taking the time. I do get it now.

You're assumption is that:

Gold sink from number of players donating everyday multiplied by the number of days where they "miss" their reset solely because of the current timing

is greater than

Gold sink from number of players that would double up on hunt time (which doesn't exclude the players above but could exclude those able to work around the 00:00 ST reset) multiplied by the number of times they can work that out.

That could well be. I just have my doubts. Thanks again.

In the current system :
Gold sunk = hunters sinking gold + daily contributors - missed days
In the proposed system :
Gold sunk = hunters sinking gold + daily contributors + potential for hunters to 'double up' (or buy twice when they could only buy once in the old system)

[callmeabc]

and in the event that HSC don't want people to double up, their could be a say a 3 hour limit between upgrades

[Tazarian]

I have also discovered a very intresting thing that some players did not even know of this gold sink....I mean upgrades for gold.

In my honest opinion, I am for anything that will improve the game itself. To have the gold upgrades reset at 00:00:00 with Temple Blessings is fine by me.

Now, on to bank depos....it's based on not logon time as much as the last depo you used and, it is reset from that point forward. Early this week, it was at 8:13 am (my time). I depoed a bit later on a day or so and, now it is at 9:18 am. However, this time shifts since bank depos are not a fixed time and, it differs from player to player.

It would be intresting to get HCS's opinion (and approx. amount of gold sunk so far). We can tell this is having an effect on the game because of the reduced prices of FSP in the MP.

Players must also remember that Gold Upgrades are for a gold sink, and not to replace donations to the game for upgrades. HCS gave us this amount of upgrades (for now, perhaps more later on) but, can't give them all. This is a company and, they do need money to run it. Giving away everything for gold would hurt the pocket books and, damn the game to failure for sure and, we want to save the game.

So far, I have sunk a few million pieces of gold (myself) and, I know members of my guild have done the same as well. So, within my little corner of FS that I know of fairly well (the Sharingan Warriors guild), we have sunk alot of gold. Now, if 25% of all the guilds in FS does the same, then the sink is doing it's job nicely right now....perhaps with this tweek, it will work even better (25% is saying that if only 25% of the gamers sink gold on a daily bases as we do in SW for the upgrades).

Currently, I cannot find away for someone to abuse this so, HCS should have no issues in doing the minor tweek with resetting the gold upgrades. It won't have a major impact on the playing of the game but, perhaps will provide a better sink in the long run.

[mikkyld]

I am pretty sure that deposits reset 24 hours later but only if you are playing. Get deposit at 1200 day one and not log on until 1800 day 2 and that is when your deposits reset.

That is correct.

having a single time every day means all you need to do is log on and your deposits were already reset if you are late and will be soon if you are early - likewise the gold upgrade.

This is where I think you miss the point. With the exception of those players that can hunt at say 23:00 ST... all things constant... this option would actually MINIMIZE gold sink.

Why? Because except in the above-mentioned exception, it takes away the possibility to double up on your gold sink during hunts...

I think anybody using the gold upgrade each day, probably uses it each day... hence the reset time is irrelevant. I think "most" players using the upgrade take advantage to sink gold during their hunts. These are not the players that use it each and every day.

Maybe you can get on at the same time every day but I cannot and I am on every day

Over time, I have lost days of deposit reset and loyalty gains and now it will be gold upgrades.

If you dont use it every day, that would reduce gold sink and only the most dedicated, stay at home person can possibly get on every day at the same time.

As for doubling up, nothing could be simpler than to plan a hunt before and after the 0:00 reset - if you want to do that

[Mongo]

Been away a couple days, just had a read through all your replies, thanks for the feedback! Please forgive me, this post is gonna be a bit long winded

One thing I am confused about, which I may have completley misunderstood, is the suggestions for the Gold upgrades resetting at the same time of Bank Deposits....

The way I see that, is it would not make any difference to the ability to be able to upgrade at anytime each day, or have I got it wrong?

Asuming upgrades were to reset at same time of bank depos...

(if my bank deposits reset at 21:00)... I log on on Monday, make a bank deposit and do some gold upgrades at say 22:00. On Tuesday I can only log and play at say 14:00 - 16:00, thus I can not make any gold upgrades, as my bank deposit have not been reset (along with gold upgrades if reset with deposits). Now my next available time to log is Wednesday at say 18:00, when I can next make my Gold upgrades. This would be exactly the same as it is now?

So If I have this right, resetting gold upgrades the same time as bank deposits, would make no difference at all, to the ability to upgrade at anytime each day, when I am able to get online? :?

Also, in response the some questions about players who try to upgrade everyday... I would like to spend 250k Gold every single day I log on (10 max stam). I work variable shift patterns in my job, so can not be online at the same time everyday. This results in less Gold sunk, as I am not upgrading as much as I would like, and on a personal note, it results in less (cheaper) max stam upgrades for my character!

Also I have read several posts where players have misunderstood the poll, this suggestion has nothing to do with GOLD DEPOSITS, it is to give us the freedom to make GOLD UPGRADES each day, at anytime we are able to log on. I can see how at first glance it may be confusing, but the poll, is only for the suggestion of changing the gold upgrades reset to 00:00 server time daily, nothing else.

Thanks to everyone who voted, posted.

[MummRa]

One thing I am confused about, which I may have completley misunderstood, is the suggestions for the Gold upgrades resetting at the same time of Bank Deposits....

I believe the original suggestion and what must people are agreeing to is that gold upgrades AND bank deposits BOTH reset at 00:00 ST not that one will be whenever the other is reset no matter when it is

[Mongo]

One thing I am confused about, which I may have completley misunderstood, is the suggestions for the Gold upgrades resetting at the same time of Bank Deposits....

I believe the original suggestion and what must people are agreeing to is that gold upgrades AND bank deposits BOTH reset at 00:00 ST not that one will be whenever the other is reset no matter when it is

Ok thanks MummRa, It is just there are a few posts, which I read as wanting the gold upgrades to reset with our bank deposits, and for no change in the bank deposits time.

These are a couple of the posts which confused me, I read anton45 post "it should reset with our bank deposits instead of every 24 hours or at 00:00" as meaning.... the gold upgrades should reset at the same time as our bank deposits, not every 24 hours and not at 00:00. Then your post agreeing with them.... Thats what got me confused!

I believe that it should be tweaked and it should reset with our bank deposites instead of every 24 hours or at 00:00. In my opinion that would make more sense.

Currently bank deposits reset 24 hours after you deposit (unless you bought more). The gold upgrades are the same 24 hours after you last upgraded. So if you time it right... Upgrade then deposit every 24 hours the system works just as you want it.

Which ironically is how I want it to be as well... Good show

Thanks for clearing that up, I agree that bank depos reset at 00:00 would also be great, but I wanted to try and keep the thread focused on the orginal suggestion, and the poll, so there would be no confusion in what you are voting for etc.

[Egami]

As for doubling up, nothing could be simpler than to plan a hunt before and after the 0:00 reset - if you want to do that

ROTFL... sure... you go ahead and get up at 3 a.m. to hunt or tell your boss or professor that you need a 45 minute break to do so depending on the time zone you are in.

HOW THE BANK DEPO RESET WORKS:

@Evarius... the "explanation" currently above this one on how the depo reset works is wrong. I already explained it in this post, but will try to explain a different way to make it clearer.

Lets say yours is at 9:18 ST. You have to wait 24 hours from the reset for the next one. If you log on (or are on and actively doing something) at 9:18, then it stays at that time. If you don't log on until 9:19 24 hours later, then your bank reset moves to 9:19. If you don't log on more than 24 hours later until 21:18 then your bank reset moves to 21:18. It makes NO DIFFERENCE when you deposit in that time.

Hope that helps. Everyone is right that says they lose time there. With respect to the bank reset and loyalty reset, there are reasons for that. Anyway, I don't think I can make how it works any clearer, but if you still don't understand it... please feel free to pm me in game.

CONCENTRATING ON THE ACTUAL POLL:

That said, Evarius, you are absolutely right... the whole discussion about changing it to the bank depo reset time is NOT part of the poll. That's part of the major problem I see with it.

Thanks to everyone's input, I've come to the conclusion that I'm voting against it. That is because the current system is much better for me as an individual player, but more importantly I'm now 98% convinced that it's better for the game, ie., the FS community as a whole. The fact that the gold sink is already greater due to the original change is self-evident and irrelevant for this poll.

The info you would want would be: Over one month was the gold sink larger as is it is now or would it be larger by restricting the reset time, ie., cutting out the possibility of all FS players to double sink?

As it stands right now, I manipulate my upgrade to a time when I can use it twice during my hunt. That means I sink gold 3 times. Except for the portion of FS who hunts around that tight 00:00 ST reset (keeping in mind that this game is played by people across all time zones), this means that players have the opportunity to sink more gold than they would be able to with the change.

My base question from the beginning remains the same. Do you actually do the upgrade every single day? And the real issue is: I don't care about individuals, I care about what's good for the game.

I could be wrong and there are some opinions to the contrary. However, I simply am not convinced that there are so many players that try to do the upgrade every day and miss "two" a week (which I also don't think is a realistic number for absolutely everyone that does this) that it outweighs the larger amount of gold that would be sunk by the number of players that take advantage for their hunts and, due to the change, would lose at least one gold sink if the Gold Upgrade was changed to 00:00 ST.

LET ME BE CLEAR:

I'm sticking to the poll. I "believe" that making no changes will sink more gold than setting any fixed time. I see it as a negative for FS as a whole.

Along the same lines, the major (not the only) "complaint" here is that it is currently hard to keep track of when the Gold Upgrade reset time is. Outside (unfortunately) the poll is making it so it coincides with depo reset. Doing this would provide a log notification and a reference on every single FS page. I think that would definitely be better than the current system for sinking gold.

REQUEST FOR HCS:

I'd like this to go up as an official poll which includes the following options if you deem it worthwhile: Leave Gold Upgrade times as is. Change Gold Upgrade time to 00:00 ST. Change Gold Upgrade time to coincide with Bank Deposit Reset. Don't know. No opinion/preference.

That said, I plan to "try" and not make any further posts here. I think I've said more than enough and also figure people are getting annoyed, lol.

I think the majority opinion will decide whether those being part of the majority actually understand the ramifications of their decision. HCS often has its hands tied (woe the day when -what, 3 or 4 years ago?- stam gain via a 10 million gold per day structure was trashed because it would be "so unfair". Wish the whiners about current FSP prices would reflect on that). What will be, will be, for better or worse.

Relevant, but off topic... I really miss ECOFROG. )o0

Prosperous smacking everybody. (o0